After the issue with the FB breaking I pulled the engine out last weekend and decided to strip the engine to see what happen.
First of all I got the engine mounted on to the engine stand.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0088-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0089-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0090.jpg)
Then the Maniold and Carb comes of the adapter on the engine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0091-1.jpg)
4 port to 6 port adapter was the next to get removed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0092-1.jpg)
Then Removed the Engine mount off the front of the engine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0093-1.jpg)
Then removed the water pump assembly from the front cover.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0095-1.jpg)
Then removed the sump to find what the cause is to the engine failing. There are huge amounts of copper swarf in the sump. Bearing Failure looks the culprit of the engine failing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0096-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0097.jpg)
Overall the engine looks very clean in the sump. Not sure if this is the advantage of running LPG, very little amount of carbon build up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0098.jpg)
Oil pump chain is still intact.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0099.jpg)
Next on to removing the front pulley. Needed quite a big bar to get the 19mm nut off !
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0100.jpg)
Removed the CAS from the front cover.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0101.jpg)
Removed Front cover to find a very clean oily pump assembly.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0102.jpg)
Then I got stuck with the Flywheel nut. I\'ll need to borrow one in the week and get the flywheel cracked off !
Shaun
I\'m sure pip might let you borrow one, if not I think we have a huge socket, bit of a treck to get it though?? Or order one off interweb, probably be best.
Have you got oil in the right places?
Seems to be, pulled the oil feed lines off and there was oil present at the OMP.
Not sure if I\'ve run it low on oil previously and topped back up. Had new oil in not that long ago and had plenty on the dip stick.
Shaun
Was the oils pump working? Wonder if you\'ve had an oil problem causing the bearing to fail?
Or have you tried revving it really high?
Haven\'t revved the engine high recently but who\'s to say it hasn\'t been on the way out for a while. Has been noisier of late, put it down to the exhaust !
Shaun
Looking at sockets its about £30 for one. Will need to wait till end of month for funds though.
Shaun
You will have a serious bearing failure in that engine. It could have been on the way out which then led to a stationary gear/rotor gear breaking which seized the motor.
The clean sump is typical of all rotaries re the carbon you were talking about.
Now you have got the motor pulled it will be pretty easy to rebuild and put a fresh one back in i think!
Hope it goes well!
Opportunity for porting I think!
Cheers Carl, the last 12a I took apart I thought was a lot more dirty inside.
Will carry the thread on once I sort the socket out !
Shaun
Watching this space for your next posting Shaun...
What socket size are you after, I might be able to borrow one tomorrow evening.
Good progress Shaun - watching with interest. Hoping the damage inside isn\'t too drastic and you can rebuild easily.
Quote from: neoroony;838437What socket size are you after, I might be able to borrow one tomorrow evening.
if its the flywheel then its the 54mm one :D
epic FAIL, it\'s a no go on the 54mm socket.
Common phrases used where along the lines of "wtf do you need that for" and "Are you working on a rigid chassis class dumper truck"
You could try the garage round the back of spar, the lads have swapped an alternator pulley for me and didn\'t want payment, also refused my offering of a bacon buttie.
I\'ve also been advised that you need a 3/4" drive as a 1/2" based socket won\'t be up to the job. You might know better or someone else could advise you on here.
Sorry I couldn\'t be of help.
lock the motor and use a heat torch and a chisel and hammer if you dont have the right socket..
pssst............. toyota 54mm wheel bearing nut spindle socket is around $15 ( metric ) or 5 bob and two buttons ( imperial )
or RB in the US will sell you a big socket ,, and a bar of calculated length to apply guestimated TQ when doing them up
PS
.. told you it was a bearing ...
sometimes you can get lucky and most of the expensive stuff inside is OK.. expect minimum of a crank and a rotor and maybe a stat gear
...all of which a junked engine should donate .. ( its the housing condition that will dictate the main costs )
i collect and strip the junkers cause its times like these you need....
pity there is such a distance here cause i would throw these things at you
.. i have well over a dozen FC rotors laying around on shelves , an oil drum with many cranks , and a fruit crate full of stats
i suggest sussing out the cost of some non oem water seal and oil control O ring sets and some of the better aftermarket apex seals and springs
( from the US as they are very competitive atm )
compare the atkins/RA/pineapple and especially recommend the goopy options for both hard and soft seals ...
( or suss out the oz rotor jipped on O ring thread and make your own,, havent let me down yet ;P )
you may wish to try a template and port for yourself.. but i recommend porting only your primary plate ( and or substituting a 13bt one ) , keeping things 9.4:1 .. and adding the s4 turbo
( either seek out the 13bt inlet manifolds and mod them and use a 225.. or find out how to boost prep the 300.. and build a hat )
PS... search around,, find the most substancial socket you can for the $$ and take the RB tip and weld the appropriate sized pipe to the socket.. thank me later
...be aware some beefy 3/4 or inch drive sockets wont fit into the recess on a stock flywheel due to an excessive OD
..be aware that your :censored::censored::censored::censored:y half inch socket drive will break getting the required TQ.. which is why i told you to weld it
55mm socket works just as well as a 54mm. Put a little heat on it first. 5 minute job.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-expert-socket-55mm-/280998055938?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item416cca1002
Quote from: 12at;838520lock the motor and use a heat torch and a chisel and hammer if you dont have the right socket..
I just drilled a couple of lines of small holes across the nut on a scrap engine. Not quite right through it. Then I simply split it off with a chisel.
If you think your engine might be terminal Shaun then why buy a socket?
Quote from: drtool;83853255mm socket works just as well as a 54mm. Put a little heat on it first. 5 minute job.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-expert-socket-55mm-/280998055938?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item416cca1002
Just Bought it :Thumbsup!
Cheers Everyone for the advice :D I\'ll have to get the garage to crack it off once the socket arrives !
Grinder has a scrap engine thats been in his garden for years, that may be the donor for the damaged parts (fingers crossed).
Shaun
Quote from: David Nock;838547If you think your engine might be terminal Shaun then why buy a socket?
I would at least have the socket to get me going if it happened again, plus if I was going to put it back together I\'d still need the socket !
Shaun
Thinking about it I may just Slit the nut with a grinder and chisel it off.
Shaun
Quote from: bumpstart;838529PS... search around,, find the most substancial socket you can for the $$ and take the RB tip and weld the appropriate sized pipe to the socket.. thank me later
...be aware some beefy 3/4 or inch drive sockets wont fit into the recess on a stock flywheel due to an excessive OD
..be aware that your :censored::censored::censored::censored:y half inch socket drive will break getting the required TQ.. which is why i told you to weld it
I got a 1M long bar, 1" drive, and stuck a 6 foot long pipe over the end of that - you can get a 6 sided 1" 54mm socket. It\'s also handy to get a long length of thick flat iron bar, and drill out a couple of holes to mount that on the flywheel - then work against that to free the nut.
All wrong btw. And all a set off wimps. I just grabbed hold of the last engine nut and undid it with my bare hands because I\'m well ard! Used my left too and that\'s my weak arm.
TBH if you have got the front 19mm out the 54mm is a breeze :)
If i was you i\'d get a chisle / lump hammer and see if you can turn the nut. I have done it that way on motors i have a spare nut for and nine out of ten times they turn quite easy. If you only try it on one corner you can still use the 54mm socket if its well on. In my experiance they don\'t need cutting.
I did try with a chisel because when I took a 12a apart it worked but the nut seems much smaller in comparison. If the crank is knackered I think I\'ll just cut and chisel off.
Grant - You the man :Giggle
Shaun
i have a 10 ft scaffold bar if you need something serious ;)
Quote from: shaunwil;838611I did try with a chisel because when I took a 12a apart it worked but the nut seems much smaller in comparison. If the crank is knackered I think I\'ll just cut and chisel
Shaun
they are the same nut
I see :2Confused
Shaun
Finally got back to the engine.
Drilled out and chiseled the Flywheel nut off the. Then the Flywheel decided to bond with the crank in more than one way. Took drilling and re-tapping the SST holes, drilling a 10mm Steel plate and tightening it up as much as possible. Then a swift huge clout with a fair sized hammer to pop the flywheel off !
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0103.jpg)
Then out with the air gun and removed all the main bolts.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0105.jpg)
Then the rear iron was pull off using a nice Rubber hammer. The rear rotor was the one that had failed. The stationary gear exploded and the mating gear was completely mashed ! Not sure if it was down to a failed bearing but it definitely was mangled.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0107.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0108.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0109.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0110.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0112.jpg)
Then took the housing off.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0114.jpg)
Then the rotor cam off. Then got stuck with the Middle plate. Can never seem to position the middle plate round the crank. I removed the dowels and then removed the Bits behind the front cover.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0117.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0117.jpg)
Gave the Crank a good tap with a rubber hammer, removing the woodruff key. Removed the crank and middle plate to get to the front housing and Rotor.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/shaunwil/DSCF0119-1.jpg)
Overall the Housings both look in good condition. The plates look like they could do with being relapped, but could actually be rebuilt as is. The was quite a bit of goop in the water channels, but overall the parts don\'t look all that bad.
The next question is what to do next really........
i have all the parts if you wanna risk them ?
To be honest i only really wanted the rotors from the engine as they look cool :D
rebuild it and monster port it!! J port for the win. is it a 13B or 12a you have? are the water seals on the plates or the housings? just wondering if it was changed from rx4 to the fb as the rx4 seals are on the housings
dont port it too far,, the gas carb needs the strong vacuum signal and the overlap reversion is going to bugger all that up...... turbo it.. its a hat and a turbo manifold away
.. port the primary plate ( or use turbo plate ) .. drop out the exhaust difusers ,, thats about all you need to do
use aftermarket water seal kit and oil control rubbers,,aftermarket 2 piece apex seals and use your best oil control chromes , watch some rebuild vids ,, and take your time ..
//there is no bigger grin than the win you get on your very first build startup//
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;838909rebuild it and monster port it!! J port for the win. is it a 13B or 12a you have? are the water seals on the plates or the housings? just wondering if it was changed from rx4 to the fb as the rx4 seals are on the housings
the 83-85 13b FB 6port ( US model ) uses the RESI engine ( same as HB cosmo/luce ).. this has water seals same as the rx4, in alum housing
all rotating and oil system parts bear direct commonality with the earlier rx4 13b
in 86 ,, the 13b 6 port FC engine gets 2 mm seals, bigger exhaust , primary and aux ports , and water seals are now in the iron plates , amongst other detail changes ( like full length stat gears, bigger oil pump, thermal pellet crank, etc etc )
Engine came from a FC as far as I\'m aware. The water seals are in the Plates. Sounds like an 86 from your description.
The worrying thing is I can\'t really afford to do it straight away and I\'ll get told off for having 3 cars on the drive still living with my parents. I may just pull the microtech out and sell it as a project to someone on the club.
Stu - I\'d love to come and grab that engine. Your more than welcome to come and help me take it to bits to see if any of it is any use. If so I\'m happy to give you some cash for the bits (not much though).
Shaun