Some supposedly slow FD got pole position and then won its race out right with Steve putt driving today at Castle Combe in the GT academy race and came 3rd in another race today.
Big congrats to Steve and has Dad for a great result today!
This has to be one of the quickest circuit Rotaries in the country.
GREAT DRIVER STEVE FOR THE WIN!
OH, and 1.4 bar boost, full bridgeport on t51 kai turbo and numerous laps not just 1/4 of a mile at a time!
STOCK FUEL PUMP FOR THE WIN!
Thats great news :)
Carl clear your pms
Carl has PMS? :rollin
Nice work!
Quote from: Brett;837732Carl has PMS? :rollin
I hope not other wise we shall have to call him Carla!!
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;837740I hope not other wise we shall have to call him Carla!!
thats me in my spare time.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;837744thats me in my spare time.
I did wonder who\'s the dress was in the back of the rx8 at rotorstock;)
thanks guys. few vids going up now on http://www.facebook.com/ChrisPuttRacing
Quote from: Steve_FD;837761thanks guys. few vids going up now on http://www.facebook.com/ChrisPuttRacing
That gear box!!! Oh that gear box, bam flames whine bam flames whine!
Can i ask what exhaust your running as it seems extremely quiet:Thumbs-up
the exhaust is all custom made by Carl Hayward and myself. it is 108db at 5000rpm which is the max limit for racing.
another video you may like to see. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-4KmogJOA&feature=player_embedded
Quote from: lee mills;837777Can i ask what exhaust your running as it seems extremely quiet:Thumbs-up
I can make you one that is quieter than that and still makes the power.
Quote from: Steve_FD;837786the exhaust is all custom made by Carl Hayward and myself. it is 108db at 5000rpm which is the max limit for racing.
seems quieter than that. I thought max db was 100db for coombe or do you get a higher level due to being in a race series.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;837794I can make you one that is quieter than that and still makes the power.
Tell me more:D
its 100db for a public track day and 108db for racing.
Cool. Aiming to get there for a few track days next year just got to shave a few db,s off first:Thumbsup!
I was there was good to watch.... The Radical of Andrew Shanley was phenomenal i timed a 1.03 and i do believe it lapped most cars in the GT race. It was frikin cold up there as well
a rotary powered radical???? has it been done?
Our little Radical Clubsport was only 1300cc but using a mildly tweaked Hyabusa. We managed to get down to 1:05s by the last season we entered. Not bad for a car built on a £15K budget :)
I would really like to try a sequential box in one of my cars soon. Unfortunately I was too large to fit in the Clubsport with a foam filled seat made for my very slight neighbour.
Great to see a rotary winning :)
Quote from: HaywardRotary;837794I can make you one that is quieter than that and still makes the power.
What size system and what size box\'s are you using? Waste ate plumbed in??
Cheers
How much does a stock FD pump flow at what voltage? What pressure are you running through the injectors?
Seems like bosch might go out of business if the stock pump is capable of running 600bhp worth of flow (hp+safety margin for the race car)?? Tell me more!!
Am I being blind/stupid again? Can\'t see the power figure?
Presume you had a custom loom for that? (Out of interest, what sort of amperes are you pulling on the pump?)
You do realise that Carl originally said "up too 600hp" not dead on 600? And he\'s talking fwhp.
The thing is Carl isn\'t going to tell you how he does it as it is business and has tried many things. Have you ever been to see Carl and talked too him at his shop?
If the FD ignition system is good for up to 600HP then why can\'t any of the other Mazda products installed on the car be capable of the same thing?
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;842797You do realise that Carl originally said "up too 600hp" not dead on 600? And he\'s talking fwhp.
The thing is Carl isn\'t going to tell you how he does it as it is business and has tried many things. Have you ever been to see Carl and talked too him at his shop?
If the FD ignition system is good for up to 600HP then why can\'t any of the other Mazda products installed on the car be capable of the same thing?
Hmm interesting few points you raise there.
First off - I only presumed that the HP for the car above was 500hp - a number I plucked out of the air, to which i added a safety margin of fuel flow to equal 600hp.
If you are saying that its capable of 600hp, I would then add 100hp of fuel flow as a margin as no one would run a pump at 100% - just like you wouldnt do with injectors - agree?
Second, if there is some voodoo majic trickery going on to make a stock fuel pump deliver huge amounts more power, then its pushing the boundaries to call it stock or make a fuss of the fact its stock - kinda like a hi flow turbo, or drilling an injector pintle - both of which are possible and done by people, but for most its fast easier to obtain a higher rated unit thats also new for simplicity and peace of mind. I would take \'stock\' to mean that whats in there does the job with no biggering around, end of - unless I missed something of course. Which is the case?
Third, there are more things on an FD would stand up to much less than 600hp so this too kinda makes that point irrelevant too - intercooler/clutch/injectors/exhaust/ECU etc.. Also - I thought most people chasing that kinda power would upgrade the ignition with a twin power or CDI system. Does this car also run stock ignition?
Somehow I don\'t think that you just plucked the 600HP figure out of the air. I know full well where you got that figure from and so do you.
I have no idea what Carl does to the pumps, I\'m not interested in finding out tbh. If he says they work then they probably do.
I really don\'t understand you intentions for digging up this thread? Are you genuinely interested to maybe try these things out yourself or are you trying to have a dig at Carl?
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;842940Somehow I don\'t think that you just plucked the 600HP figure out of the air. I know full well where you got that figure from and so do you.
I have no idea what Carl does to the pumps, I\'m not interested in finding out tbh. If he says they work then they probably do.
I really don\'t understand you intentions for digging up this thread? Are you genuinely interested to maybe try these things out yourself or are you trying to have a dig at Carl?
Why so defensive fella? I have no idea what you are on about - I plucked 500hp out of the air as my post states - ("hp+safety margin for the race car"). I thought it fairly rational to assume that a 20% margin was about the right figure to arrive at 600hp worth of fuel flow, but not supporting 600hp - they to me are different things. You added \'up to 600hp\' (which btw is 600hp in my book - but I digress) to which I added my 20% (or 100hp in round figures cos my maths is bad) to get 700, because I know its bad practice to run anything at 100%
I purchased a Bosch 044 for my wheels as I wasn\'t aware that the stock FD pump could match that - I am genuinely interested in this if its the case as I could have saved myself a few bucks. So far as \'digging up a thread\', well what really attracted me to this thread was the fact it seemed to be some new revelation based on the huge \'look at me\' typeface in the first post - are you implying I shouldn\'t ask or be interested in this particular fact?
I think given the jumpiness around here I\'ll leave it alone and stick with the 044 - you are answering the question but don\'t know the answer and tbh don\'t seem that confident in it either as judged by the \'Probably\' in your response.
Cheers anyways dude.
Good job. :) Beautiful black beast. I was amazed how neutral and "easy" to drive that car seems to be...
Quote from: RamoNZ;842942Why so defensive fella? I have no idea what you are on about - I plucked 500hp out of the air as my post states - ("hp+safety margin for the race car"). I thought it fairly rational to assume that a 20% margin was about the right figure to arrive at 600hp worth of fuel flow, but not supporting 600hp - they to me are different things. You added \'up to 600hp\' (which btw is 600hp in my book - but I digress) to which I added my 20% (or 100hp in round figures cos my maths is bad) to get 700, because I know its bad practice to run anything at 100%
I purchased a Bosch 044 for my wheels as I wasn\'t aware that the stock FD pump could match that - I am genuinely interested in this if its the case as I could have saved myself a few bucks. So far as \'digging up a thread\', well what really attracted me to this thread was the fact it seemed to be some new revelation based on the huge \'look at me\' typeface in the first post - are you implying I shouldn\'t ask or be interested in this particular fact?
I think given the jumpiness around here I\'ll leave it alone and stick with the 044 - you are answering the question but don\'t know the answer and tbh don\'t seem that confident in it either as judged by the \'Probably\' in your response.
Cheers anyways dude.
Ok, my apologies then.
This car has recently made 450rwhp on low boost of 1.3bar iirc, car has been mapped too more than that but knocked down for longevity as it gets used in anger a lot, and doesn\'t need that much power. All on the stock pump.
That 450rwhp was on about 1 bar boost Grant. it usually runs around 1.3 bar to 1.4 bar.
Even better then Carl ;) :D
Now that peeps have chilled out, and the OP is back online, can I re ask my questions about flow and pressure? Unless the pump is modifed from stock of course - but if there is some secret tweakings, then could you tell us thats the case? And Bretts question about ampere pull as well?
Also, what was the power on 1.3 or 1.4 bar?
Thanks.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;842952That 450rwhp was on about 1 bar boost Grant. it usually runs around 1.3 bar to 1.4 bar.
Can I see the dyno graph please, would like to see the power curve?
Quote from: HaywardRotary;842952That 450rwhp was on about 1 bar boost Grant. it usually runs around 1.3 bar to 1.4 bar.
hi carl what turbo was he running??
Fairly sure it was a t51:Thumbs-up
yep a T51R kai iirc
what porting was it ? sorry for all the questions guys!
full bridge, it goes brap brap, also passes noise tests on track easily too
Quote from: BlitzBoy;842958Can I see the dyno graph please, would like to see the power curve?
Can we see yours too blitz? Would be intersting to compare them side by side given they are they same engine, porting, turbo and near enough the same boost and horsepower going by your sig details.
Be interesting to see the mid range although that can be dependent on the dyno ramp rate of course.
Carl - any more details on the pump?
Cheers.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;842952That 450rwhp was on about 1 bar boost Grant. it usually runs around 1.3 bar to 1.4 bar.
Can we see some dyno figures to back up these numbers Carl?
Happy now?
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/de2bf063.jpg)
Bah! That could be anybodies dyno print out!
Quote from: Brett;843075Bah! That could be anybodies dyno print out!
Yep, it sure could. Iv got a few videos of dyno runs I can link up too?
Just watch the car race and you\'ll know all you need to.
It\'s like the national secrets act on here. Pub talk of hp yet again.. Mine has 438hp atw @ 1.15bar . But I can prove that. Why is it people get so cagey about dyno figures unless is all BS . Would be a nice thread if its showed more info .
But congrats on the win. And tbh. If you did put dyno graphs up and it only showed 420 or what ever I.d be even more impressed. That its that quick .
Quote from: RamoNZ;843010Can we see yours too blitz?
All my dyno graphs are in the Dyno thread of this forum , never give an excuse why I can\'t post a dyno chart up unlike some people :p lol
here is my first dyno graph ever on a T04Z at 1.3 BAR on a streetport 450 rear wheel hp
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=202143&postcount=286
Then with half bridge at 10psi with T51R 400 rear wheel hp
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showpost.php?p=540772&postcount=645
here is my full bridge with T51R dyno showing flywheel horspower, the pull was done in third gear and will show full boost at 5500rpm, on the road and track the boost comes in about 1000rpm quicker
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p261/marco72_album/220942_10150570548975643_723085642_18035625_1071179_o.jpg)
Quote from: skybusr34;843086It\'s like the national secrets act on here. Pub talk of hp yet again.. Mine has 438hp atw @ 1.15bar . But I can prove that. Why is it people get so cagey about dyno figures unless is all BS . Would be a nice thread if its showed more info .
people were not cagey in the past on this forum, hence why we had a massive dyno thread
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5273
Quote from: clint;843058Can we see some dyno figures to back up these numbers Carl?
dont hold your breath LOL :p:rollin
Anyway congrats to Putt\\Carl and the awesome win
But if a daft question blitz but why did you run it in third gear? Surely dyno runs should be done in 4th? Or does it not make that much of a difference?
Dyno operators dont like to overspeed the dyno, and a turbo rotary does have a chance of doing that given the rpm they can pull, they decide what gear to run it in, there is a slight difference 4th gear will put a little more load on the engine and more heat , you will record slightly higher power figures in 4th and spool will come in slightly earlier. We have tried tuning Robs on the dyno in 4th, it oversped the dyno and made it shutdown temporarily lol
Just a bit safer to run in third, plus its a tuning tool in reality, so doing multiple runs in third is safer whilst tuning is easier on the engine, Im going to 9k in 3rd on the dyno sometimes which is approx 130 mph, which I do on the dragstrip so perfect for my needs
Aah ok, makes sense then.
Cos dyno figures are very easy to make up and fiddle.
I go by how a car performs against viable opposition.
Cars that win clearly have the power.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843101Cos dyno figures are very easy to make up and fiddle.
I go by how a car performs against viable opposition.
Cars that win clearly have the power.
but you said in one of your posts that the car laid down 450 rearwhp at 1 bar, so I assumed it has been on a dyno, so why are you reluctant to post the chart? :confused:
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843101Cos dyno figures are very easy to make up and fiddle.
I go by how a car performs against viable opposition.
Cars that win clearly have the power.
Don\'t you think they are more credible than just coming up with a figure and claiming its gospel?
Hmmmmm. It\'s not too hard to find the dyno sheet if you know where to look.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843101Cos dyno figures are very easy to make up and fiddle.
I go by how a car performs against viable opposition.
Cars that win clearly have the power.
I don\'t follow, so you won\'t put up dyno chart incase people think you.ve fiddled them ?? Or am I reading this wrong.
Here in Finland its quite common to cheat in dyno result. Just because our laws are grazy. Newer cars above 1978 can have +20% increase in displacement and power, compared to stock, the most powerfull version... So its common to get a dyno print that says "this cars engine has 150hp", even if engine really puts out like 500hp. MOT man has to believe it.
Dynos has differences too. Theres 4 dynos quite near where i live. My friends rally Volvo with very powerfull b20 engine had 4 different results. Differense was about 50hp and 70nm, highest and lowest result...
BTW, congrats on that win. I would like to see more incar wids from that beast :)
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;843109Hmmmmm. It\'s not too hard to find the dyno sheet if you know where to look.
No I dont know where to look Grant thats why I am asking!?
FFS this is a car forum ,whats with all the hush hush cr*p?, surely dyno charts ,circuit times, quarter miles be posted on a car forum etc etc
So there is a dyno chart somewhere so post the freaking thing, talk about blowing something out of proportion.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843118No I dont know where to look Grant thats why I am asking!?
FFS this is a car forum ,whats with all the hush hush cr*p?, surely dyno charts ,circuit times, quarter miles be posted on a car forum etc etc
So there is a dyno chart somewhere so post the freaking thing, talk about blowing something out of proportion.
It\'s not mine to post otherwise I would.
Skybus, I think what Carl is saying is the no matter what he posts there will always someone who seeks out the slightest excuse to criticise what Carl posts up. It\'s a perpetual loop of criticism, if Carl bult a car and made 600flywheel HP everyone would say "oh the dyno has been fudge" or "the dynod a :censored::censored::censored::censored: dyno" etc etc. if you are really interested in what Carl does then go to his garage and get his business. You will see the results for yourself.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;843120It\'s not mine to post otherwise I would.
Skybus, I think what Carl is saying is the no matter what he posts there will always someone who seeks out the slightest excuse to criticise what Carl posts up. It\'s a perpetual loop of criticism, if Carl bult a car and made 600flywheel HP everyone would say "oh the dyno has been fudge" or "the dynod a :censored::censored::censored::censored: dyno" etc etc. if you are really interested in what Carl does then go to his garage and get his business. You will see the results for yourself.
I\'ve seen Carl\'s work first hand and he has built an engine for one of my rx7. So I\'m not being critical of Carl or his work. I just think a lot less people would think negative .. Ie it\'s a fudged dyno, than not posting at all. If its only 400 who cares. It\'s winning races but it would stop the bs from all sides once and for all if a simple dyno was put up.. Would it not??? All that no dyno sheet does is provoke and point finger that its nowhere near the figure from guesswork .
And the whole standard fuel pump debate would stop too.. IF this dyno graph appeared.
Carl gains his own criticism by his actions on forums, soo many times he quotes a power figure in the 9 years I have been a member on this club, then when someone asks for a dyno print out to back it up, it never comes, he has made a rod for his own back as it were by doing this, hence why people laugh behind his back, I have only seen two dyno printouts from him over the years.
If he never quoted a power figure when he posts then he would gain respect, as people would just see his circuit results and say well done. So when a person asks oh how much power has that car got, Carl should say I dont know rather then guess and pull a figure out of thin air.
Now it seems there is a dyno chart out there for Putts fine track FD, and club members would be interested in viewing this, it will probably get Carl more business as well, so post it I say, only time i say bull**** on dyno charts is when they are from american dynos. Any cars dynoed in the UK are or less bang on.
So post the dyno chart Carl and gain some respect back
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;842950This car has recently made 450rwhp on low boost of 1.3bar iirc, car has been mapped too more than that but knocked down for longevity as it gets used in anger a lot, and doesn\'t need that much power.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;842952That 450rwhp was on about 1 bar boost Grant. it usually runs around 1.3 bar to 1.4 bar.
[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843101Cos dyno figures are very easy to make up and fiddle
[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]Quote from: HaywardRotary;843101
I go by how a car performs against viable opposition.Cars that win clearly have the power.
What was the horsepower at 1.4 bar if it made 450@1bar??
When it was tuned to higher power than that then what was the peak hp and boost it reached before it was turned down for longevity?
Was that peak reached still with the stock pump? And can I cheekily ask about flow and pressure figures again? I feel like I am asking for someones sisters phone number - whats up with the secrets? :)
The only thing I would add and is that HP isnt the only factor that wins races - Driver, weight, suspension, brakes and tyres are all huge influences into what makes a racing car win. On top of that, a HP figure on its own also doesnt mean much - its the power delivery to match the chassis and grip that also plays a hand. All credit for the win, but the engine is like a member of a band - nothing without its other parts
Lastly - awesome power Blitz! Mega :)
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I honestly don\'t think it would stop. Blitz is the most tame about all this stuff whereas there are other people that will just continue with the bashing on open forums.
I have seen the dyno sheet for 450rwhp but I can\'t find it now from where I saw it:( the car performs in what it is raced in so is there a need for it? I have only ever seen blitzes car dyno maps and one of James willadays car. I have never seen one of robs drag car but that\'s supposed to be in the 700hp region. Iv never criticised it as its a fast car and performs so I don\'t need to see the dyno print out
Robs dyno print has been on fduk showing circa 550rwhp when it wheelspinned the dyno, even with people in the boot to get grip lol, it really needs to go on a hub dyno to get a real figure.
No there is no real need for a dyno print if the car performs, but there is a need when Carl quotes an actual figure, dont quote a figure unless you can back it up is my advice.
450 rear wheel hp at 1 bar is awesome quoted by Carl thats why so many people want to see the dyno chart
Has it? I haven\'t been on fduk for some time now, and don\'t intend to back in there. Prefer it here as I have superpowers;)
Carl hasn\'t been online since dinner time today so I doubt he\'s seen all this.
Surely you must have robs car higher on HP now the s480 is on there?
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;843135Surely you must have robs car higher on HP now the s480 is on there?
probably , but the power delivery is to brutal for the dyno I normally use its like an off on switch when it hits and and just wheelspins,needs to go back on a hub dyno next year like James cars did in the end to get a true figure
Just to mix things up, and to remind people why we are all here posting:
(http://www.rx7club.com/attachments/2nd-generation-non-technical-pictures-198/414659d1293501163-rx7-motivational-pictures-torque-jpg)
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843138probably , but the power delivery is to brutal for the dyno I normally use its like an off on switch when it hits and and just wheelspins,needs to go back on a hub dyno next year like James cars did in the end to get a true figure
Good stuff. Surely it will help you smooth out the maps and everything then. I saw you with your laptop at rotorstock on robs car, I know you change things for the day but the dyno will give you your base line won\'t it for adjusting at the track?
Torque is for towing Brett. Or drifting. ;)
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;843141Good stuff. Surely it will help you smooth out the maps and everything then. I saw you with your laptop at rotorstock on robs car, I know you change things for the day but the dyno will give you your base line won\'t it for adjusting at the track?
correct dyno work gives us a good place to start from, work on the track from using the logging from the different sensors helps to fine tune in actual race conditions
Carl where r u? ;)
Mir
Dyno figures are bar talk. Simples.
If we build a 10 second car what power does it have?
I dont matter, its a 10 second car.
I have no wish to show dyno figures of what i have in fact already shown in the past cos it still gets ripped by amateurs, certain people who think they are the best at this game but they pop engines and dont hold their hands up but just blame bad ignition and the like which THEY should have spotted. These are people who dont offer any warranty for what they do or take any blame when things go wrong.
We do this for a living, we do the complete package not just bits and then blame others when it goes wrong, the buck stops with us if there is an issue.
If you tune part time as some do thats the easy bit.The hard work is the building and fitting and tuning, not just letting someone else do that and then tune it up, oh and then you can walk away when it goes wrong cos it cant be your fault.LOL!!
These cars have issues all the time that we deal with everyday, and I can be certain that any one who does not do this for a living just does not get their hands dirty with all of the litle idiosyncrosies that these cars develop. Those problems are tedious to deal with but we do just that day in and day out.
Your part timer never does that and wouldnt even know where to start.
Quote from: Mir;843158Carl where r u? ;)
Mir
Busy working on the type of problem that most people dont know where to start!
Oh and stock fuel pump 10 second RX7 built by Hayward Rotary and tuned by Hayward Rotary at Shakespeare raceway running T51 kai, 1.2 bar boost 11,500 rpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmEETGY3eF0
People can choose what HP it was making.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843160Dyno figures are bar talk. Simples..
.
if that was the case why say to people you have built numerous 500 and 600 bhp cars if you believe quoting power figures is "Pub Talk"?
If that was the case why quote on this very thread 450 rear wheel hp at 1 bar if you think its pub talk?
Just dont quote power figures at all Carl, just dont do it.
There is a dyno graph out there showing 450 rear wheel hp at 1 bar because Grant has seen it, so why not post it?
You found it VERY easy Carl posting your clip of your 10.8 second drag car, so why not post the 450 rear wheel hp dyno chart??? whats the difference?:confused:
Blitz when someone asks you to map a car what do they ask you? i bet they say how much HP do you think its got? im talking when you mapped on the road. you know full well that with setup you and its acceleration you can judge roughly where the power will be.
a 500HP car will feel roughly the same from car to car, so i cant see any problem with Carl saying roughly 500 HP etc, he knows his engines and he knows his mapping
i think out of all these people having a bash you are the most reasonable
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;843071Happy now?
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/de2bf063.jpg)
I never gave you permission to use my dyno print out. Get a lawyer :spank:spank:spank:spank
Quote from: TRIND-FD;843180I never gave you permission to use my dyno print out. Get a lawyer :spank:spank:spank:spank
hahahahaha, sorry keith:Ladys-man:wave finally some light heartedness
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843176You found it VERY easy Carl posting your clip of your 10.8 second drag car, so why not post the 450 rear wheel hp dyno chart??? whats the difference?:confused:
The difference Marky is that dynos are not the real world, but the track is either in circuit racing or drag racing.
I dont tell them figures anymore when I road map , I did it in the past when I first started at out what it feels like, but I soon learned when I when I started using the dynos regularly after 350 rwhp I couldnt tell the difference as FDs at this power and beyond are flipping quick on the road.
So Grant as you have seen this dyno chart what torque was it making, where was the power peaking at what rpm, interested as how it works with the HKS seq box ?
For the folks out there who maybe genuinely wondering I have had many cars on differing dynos and can say pretty well what a certain setup will achieve due to long experience of knowing what happened before.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843184The difference Marky is that dynos are not the real world, but the track is either in circuit racing or drag racing.
Ok you refuse to post the chart fair enough, even though you have it in your possession, im tired of asking so will gracefully give up on this point.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843186I dont tell them figures anymore when I road map , I did it in the past when I first started at out what it feels like, but I soon learned when I when I started using the dynos regularly after 350 rwhp I couldnt tell the difference as FDs at this power and beyond are flipping quick on the road.
So Grant as you have seen this dyno chart what torque was it making, where was the power peaking at what rpm, interested as how it works with the HKS seq box ?
my memories not that good dude:Hammerwas at least a month ago i saw it. i do remember it was revving to 10,000 rpm, although peak hp came way befoe that
Quote from: DJ Tommo;843185I didn\'t say I was the best in the game, and there was more too it than bad ignition so don\'t assume what happened dude...
Whos the part timer exactly?:confused:
This was not meant towards you. I am reffering to one who reckons hes pretty hot with tuning but has blown up two engines that I know of this year alone!
The part timers are people who map cars for others part time and who have a day job that has nothing to with tuning. Some of these are really great at high hp but dont make for a very nice map in normal low down driving conditions. Their customers have come to me after and cant beleive the difference in a "Proper" complete map.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843189Ok you refuse to post the chart fair enough, even though you have it in your possession, im tired of asking so will gracefully give up on this point.
Good. Lets just see what happens on the track.
I think that what people need to recognise is that there maybe two people who work on these cars, and say for arguments sake they both have 20 years experience.
One does weekends now and again for a hobby and the other it is his living.
Who will have the most experience?
And who will have more in real time measured?
Who will have come across most of the various problems that can happen in all there guises?
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843193This was not meant towards you. I am reffering to one who reckons hes pretty hot with tuning but has blown up two engines that I know of this year alone!.
of course you are talking about me, I dont hide when engines let go, they let go not from tuning mistakes but from other causes so wind your neck in ok
Steve Putts side seals went on the dyno or the track, but its not a tuning mistake is it???
Rixios blue silicontastic put together engine, not a tuning mistake is it??
Quote from: matt p;843195No,
Being a little balanced here as you aswell as a few of the other people on this thread know full well when Carl gets the fishing rod out it decends in to chaos which normally ends up with it turning into a real slanging match.
What comments?, I have not been derogatory in anyway so wind your neck in.
Hi Matt,
You will note that I am being criticised here so its only right that I defend what I know to be true.
I am not saying I know everything but I do know what I am on about on this subject.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843197of course you are talking about me, I dont hide when engines let go, they let go not from tuning mistakes but from other causes so wind your neck in ok
Steve Putts side seals went on the dyno or the track, but its not a tuning mistake is it???
Big difference between a major det episode which tuners should spot and and turbo failing. LOL!
Anyway Mark.
Just you keep on doing what your doing and I\'ll keep on doing what I am doing.
Leave it at that.
Oh and to remind you you said you would shut up when we ran a 10second run, that dint last did it.
Also Jaydee is a part timer, and tunes better then both of us put togther, me and him are both computer engineers so tuning ECUs are second nature to us
Quote from: matt p;843200This is what I don\'t get, I met yourself and Pete barber at brands a few years ago and chatted for a good 20mins about his car and thought it was good to actually get to speak to someone face to face about engines and setups etc.
But for some reason it turns into a bun fight on here and Fduk.
Only reason for that Matt is that i am saying stock fuel pumps make big power, and I guess you saw that at Brands too when Pete beat a 600hp cosworth engined 350z that cost £100,000 on the engine alone, but people dont believe me due to a few dissenting voices. Pete was running a stock fuel pump then too.
I just asked for a little bit of info regarding the pump and it opened a whole can of worms.
If you are secretive about a stock pump then that just spells mistrust.
Even a fudged dyno would shut most people (who can\'t read them) up.
Carl made a point about HP figures being pub talk yet is happy to drop these figures all day long? Pub talk happens when you are in the pub and don\'t have to back anything you say up, on a forum with a PC and access to any file you need is when you stop quoting power figures or back up your words - pick one ;)
On a serious note, if I run 4 stock pumps intank. What roughly could I get with all supporting mods bhp wise ? Genuine question that could save me time and money.
on another serious note, i really love Carl. i want to marry him
Quote from: RamoNZ;843205I just asked for a little bit of info regarding the pump and it opened a while an of worms.
If you are secretive about a stock pump then that just spells mistrust.
Even a fudged dyno would shut most people (who can\'t read them) up.
Carl made a point about HP figures being pub talk yet is happy to drop these figures all day long? Pub talk happens when you are in the pub and don\'t have to back anything you say up, on a forum with a PC and access to any file you need is when you stop quoting power figures or back up your words - pick one ;)
RamoNZ, If you are genuinely wanting some info i will email you what you want to know.
haywardrotary@yahoo.com
Quote from: TRIND-FD;843208On a serious note, if I run 4 stock pumps intank. What roughly could I get with all supporting mods bhp wise ? Genuine question that could save me time and money.
the massive electrical drain would snuff spark Keith so 0 hp.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843202Also Jaydee is a part timer, and tunes better then both of us put togther, me and him are both computer engineers so tuning ECUs are second nature to us
Jaydee is the exception to the rule.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843210the massive electrical drain would snuff spark Keith so 0 hp.
:(. Peddle power :(. Seriously :(
Quote from: TRIND-FD;843208On a serious note, if I run 4 stock pumps intank. What roughly could I get with all supporting mods bhp wise ? Genuine question that could save me time and money.
on another serious note, i really love Carl. i want to marry him
well keith i dont think Carl will know what to say:evillaugh:evillaugh:evillaugh
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843202Also Jaydee is a part timer, and tunes better then both of us put togther, me and him are both computer engineers so tuning ECUs are second nature to us
True! you wouldnt have been able map Robs car without Jaydee or Kerims help. No doubt that has proved really useful judging by the results!
Both Jaydee and Kerim are top tuners in this game.
Quote from: TRIND-FD;843208on another serious note, i really love Carl. i want to marry him
Im feeling all shy now!:o
I\'m defo interested in some details.
Quote from: RamoNZ;843219I\'m defo interested in some details.
OK, email me and I\'ll get some across in the next few days.
Email sent already cheers.
There is certainly some strong feeling here though - but I got the distinct impression from Grant earlier that it was taboo to ask Carl anything. I\'m as curious as the next guy and innocently asked about the stock pump - if its stock then it must be run at a special pressure to achieve the flow. If this aspect is secret then there is no harm in saying so as its your business after all, but for the betterment of the community and the fact that you can\'t really make money out of not changing people\'s pumps - then why not spill the beans?
Anyways, ill wait for the email.
Damn this is all kicking off,I\'m impartial because I see why Carl defends himself and upsets people because running a business building and maintaining cars is very different to doing it as a hobby or interest even if you are very good at it as u have so much more comeback,but equally some of the most impressive cars about at the mo are by people who have taught themselves and taken risks,you\'ve only got to look at Rob and James car to see the results.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843216True! you wouldnt have been able map Robs car without Jaydee or Kerims help. No doubt that has proved really useful judging by the results!
Both Jaydee and Kerim are top tuners in this game.
hahahahahah I mapped Robs Motec M800 from scratch,cell by cell, shows how little you know, do you want me to ring up Jaydee and ask him to post on here confirming that?
Plus couple of your cars you have mapped have blown up this year and I doubt they were tuning mistakes.
No mapper of any cars can claim they have not had cars they have mapped blown up in the future. Cars mainly blow due to an ancillary failing or another reason, quite rare they blow due to a tuning error unless you are completely reckless.
Enjoy your internets gentlemen - I\'m going to bed.
Do try to remember we do this for fun! ;)
Quote from: BlitzBoy;843240No mapper of any cars can claim they have not had cars they have mapped blown up in the future. Cars mainly blow due to an ancillary failing or another reason, quite rare they blow due to a tuning error unless you are completely reckless.
Ive had a few engines over the years due to bad tuning.
Well, as i said before dyno reports crap. My opinion is that they wont tell the thruth. Only thing that matters is that how that engine works in that job which it is built for! Cut feeling and impression is more than a paper of weird curves :)
Before my brother ordered his engine, we did research and plans about two years. So we did contact several engine builders. In the end there was Carl and two Swedes. My brother went to visit Carl in august, and ordered engine from him, there was no options anymore. :)
Carl does this for a living. If he wants to share is knolidge, its up to him. And he has shared his trade secrets alot here. When we were talking before ordering, we did ask about power and torque of his engines. He said enough, and we believed him.
In the end, if someone doesent thrust a man how has shown his "magic" many times, he can try to do it himself. Usually it ends with a big boom and lots of money wasted... :)
I\'ve refrained from commenting on this thread as you are all as bad as each other and this is the reason I left fduk, but Carl I don\'t think it\'s fair you having a pop at people who work on cars as a hobby as at the end of the day you were one of them once and passion for the motor is usually the same!
I\'m building a car for a dear friend at the moment and am just waiting for the :censored::censored::censored::censored: slinging to start on that from various people when it comes out too, c\'mon guys, this ain\'t a playground and we are supposed to be adults!
As for bringing robs car into it, there are alot of rumours about that car mainly started by people who really know nothing about it, (most probably like mr putts car also) and some of the ones I\'ve heard and read on here (its already started on this thread) and also fduk are hilarious but it happens everywhere, the main part for it all I\'m sure is jealousy or fear of competition
If mr putt is reading this, sir, through all of this bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: and :censored::censored::censored::censored: swinging, keep it going and don\'t let the Internet ruin your hobby like it almost has mine
C
Tuning cars cell by cell is easy when you\'ve been given timing maps by someone else.
That info is easily transferable to another ecu as is fueling values even if inputs can be done cell by cell.
It dont take a rocket scientist to copy that sort of valuable info from people like Jaydee and Kerim who have been emminently helpful to others.
Quote from: colum;843265I\'ve refrained from commenting on this thread as you are all as bad as each other and this is the reason I left fduk, but Carl I don\'t think it\'s fair you having a pop at people who work on cars as a hobby as at the end of the day you were one of them once and passion for the motor is usually the same!
I\'m building a car for a dear friend at the moment and am just waiting for the :censored::censored::censored::censored: slinging to start on that from various people when it comes out too, c\'mon guys, this ain\'t a playground and we are supposed to be adults!
As for bringing robs car into it, there are alot of rumours about that car mainly started by people who really know nothing about it, (most probably like mr putts car also) and some of the ones I\'ve heard and read on here (its already started on this thread) and also fduk are hilarious but it happens everywhere, the main part for it all I\'m sure is jealousy or fear of competition
If mr putt is reading this, sir, through all of this bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: and :censored::censored::censored::censored: swinging, keep it going and don\'t let the Internet ruin your hobby like it almost has mine
C
Hi Colum,
I am not slagging off those who do this as a hobby, no doubt there is some great work out there being done, but I am saying it is BLATANTLY wrong for those who do to slag me off for things I know to be factual and that I do for a living each day.
There are people who make money from tuning part time which is fine,but not so good when they dont bear the responsiblity of poor work that causes engines to fail.
We have and do have issues as do others but we stand by our warranty and sort them out. And invariably those issues are pretty rare.
wow,......that is all!
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843281Tuning cars cell by cell is easy when you\'ve been given timing maps by someone else.
That info is easily transferable to another ecu as is fueling values even if inputs can be done cell by cell.
It dont take a rocket scientist to copy that sort of valuable info from people like Jaydee and Kerim who have been emminently helpful to others.
I\'m not going to get drawn into this but I will clear this point up, jay mapped the car on microtech we ran out of resolution so in the winter I changed to the motec, during which time jay had committed to work with James on his car. Blitz stepped in and has been faultless. The timing maps were impossible to transfer as we had to run alot of timing on the microtech, which had it been directly transferred to the m800 or pfc for that matter the engine wouldn\'t have lasted long.
This is our hobby, I dedicate alot of time and money to it and for privateers I don\'t think we do too bad.
I\'m a part timer and proud :)
Quote from: colum;843265c\'mon guys, this ain\'t a playground and we are supposed to be adults!
If mr putt is reading this, sir, through all of this bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: and :censored::censored::censored::censored: swinging, keep it going and don\'t let the Internet ruin your hobby like it almost has mine
C
Colum I take my hat off to you :)
Come on people, we have a common interest here :D
I was the one that brought robs car up in the discussion as I asked if their was a dyno sheet for it as I can\'t remember ever seeing one, however I did also say it isn\'t really necessary to see the dyno sheet as rob has got great success with his car, he was the first to beat the long standing record by you know who. I by no means brought it into the discussion to discredit him, I in fact spoke to rob at rotorstock and wished him luck even though the engine had just been rebuilt and installed the night before racing.
I do remember talking to blitz the year before at rotorstock 2011 about robs car and he said its about 700hp, so I don\'t think there should be a problem with carl saying a car is about 500hp stock pump or no stock pump. He knows his work and what it can achieve.
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843281Tuning cars cell by cell is easy when you\'ve been given timing maps by someone else.
That info is easily transferable to another ecu as is fueling values even if inputs can be done cell by cell.
It dont take a rocket scientist to copy that sort of valuable info from people like Jaydee and Kerim who have been emminently helpful to others.
Incorrect Carl , I never even saw Robs Microtech Map, I have never transffered anyones map onto Robs car. It had Max\'s old map on the Motec which I had to redo from scratch due to the different ports, injectors etc etc My main teacher in tuning ECUs in the past has been Max actually and the rest is self taught and reseached.
But if you want to talk about copying since you are bringing it up, had a few of your old customers come to me about remapping their cars that you had mapped in the past, and on at least 3 of them I found Ross(Dragons Map) on them, dont know if its a coincidence maybe they were lying that they had their cars mapped by you, but I did find it strange.
And for the record I have never even seen a Apexi Jaydee Map in my life, we discuss different tuning ideas and problems encountered,
Anyway its a car forum, and as a part timer its a hobby to me, so not going to lose any sleep about it, imagine all this mud slinging between us Carl on this thread would not have even started if just in the beginning when I asked you for a chart you could have said "no I am unwilling to post because I want to keep that part of my tuning aspect secret from the general public"
This is getting a bit :censored::censored::censored: for tat now gents. I don\'t mind the discussion but it starting to get a it too personal.
Don\'t make me edit posts to make you all look silly:D
Pull the other one Mark!
You ought to give credit where it is due.
I removed the thread temporarily over night as I thought it best as it was getting a bit heat on both side of the arguement. By all means continue the discussion but try to keep it friendly, if possible.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;843374I removed the thread temporarily over night as I thought it best as it was getting a bit heat on both side of the arguement. By all means continue the discussion but try to keep it friendly, if possible.
And removed my posts! :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:!!!:Grrr
I removed my posts too. Nothing to do with the thread and just general bull
blimey cant believe there is still this amount of slagging off still going on
sold my fd must be about 5 years ago after having e nightmare of having a recently rebuilt engine go pop and then rebuilt and having crap compression
went to carl and he rebuilt and fitted shedload of ancillaries but i sold it before it could me properley mapped but i found him to be very upfront and honest with no bull:censored::censored::censored::censored: claims
at the end of the day dyno sheets are for fun and the only true indication of any car is how quick it goes
fyi carl mine was the blue fd with gt35/40 i think with v mount etc u used it as a prototype
all i will say is carl built a nice solid engine and didnt try to rape me on the price either
Quote from: HaywardRotary;843332Pull the other one Mark!
You ought to give credit where it is due.
So Rob confirms I did the map from scratch, so you calling him and me a liar, I guess even if Jaydee posts on here, you will still call me a liar. Call me a liar in front of my face please.
Next time you see me and Jaydee at the strip ask him in front of me and lets see who looks the stupid one.
Wow jealous much, that a part timer has out done you in the quarter mile stakes. I guess its time for me to tune a circuit car and out do you in that domain as well.
Quote from: gasman;843412blimey cant believe there is still this amount of slagging off still going on
Mark/ Carl and others with problems surrounding or associated with this thread please read.
The moderator team has watched this thread closely and are aware that this thread has spilled over from FDUK and is really not wanted here and will now be closed , thankyou
When somebody pops up after 5 years and makes comments like this maybe it is now time for all the people with personal problems toward each other to deal with their issues away from clubs and forums and directly with each other while we still have some sort of Rotary communaty left !