So, some of you who know me and the FD, already know how much stick the FD gets on track. Equally some of you know about my concern regarding exhaust gas temps etc as the Titanium heat wrap on the down pipe is being burnt away.
So as an experiment today I strapped one of the key fob cameras to a make shift bracket above the downpipe/v band joint and I went off for a quick blast down 1 junction on the motorway (actually down 1 junction and back up).
The results are astonishing !!
If you decide to watch the video, watch the whole thing as the worst results are exhibited on the run back up the motorway.
I have some issues I need to resolve before using the FD again !!!
http://youtu.be/3wctXEDmw38
Chris
Flipping heck, do you have a turbo beanie blancket on there aswell?? The naked flames are a little worrying though and thats just on the road, what would a 20 minute session on track be like???
Yup I have a DEI Titanium turbo Beanie fitted too. I knew I had exhaust temp issues, but no proof other than the exhaust wrap starting to burn off.
It has withstood this abuse for two seasons of track days !! But now I know about it, I\'d better fix it !! :eek:
That\'s warm! Do you have any way of logging your post-turbo Exhaust gas temperature? As that would be interesting.
Have you thought about Water Injection? It should keep EGTs down too.
Hi Will,
Yes I\'m using water/methanol at 50/50 mix injected at 0.6 bar.
Map limits boost to 0.9 bar at the moment which gives 450 bhp. I haven\'t used it at 1.25 bar for three years (540 bhp).
One mod I\'m contemplating is fitting a sensor to the manifold to record EGT.
Chris
i personally wouldnt run a turbo beannie, you are holding a huge amount of heat in there, yes you might be stopping the engine bay heating up as much.
get your downpipe ceramic coated, and your turbo manifold. that will control the heat better.
Im sure flames are supposed to be on the inside of and internal combustion chamber!! all I can say is testament to the structure and heat resiance of the beanie and the heat proofing on the brake servo!
to record EGTS correctly you need to have 2 EGT sensors. one per rotor, these need to be before the turbo. this will help identify if you have any varience in temp between the 2 chambers, shows your injectors are equal etc and is another way to help control your engine in mapping.
having the EGT post turbo is a bit, well to be honest.....ghey
What sort of AFR do you have? I am guessing that there might be some unburnt fuel going into the exhaust and then igniting due to the higher temps, go with a ceramic downpipe, I don\'t really like wrapping manifold as it does keep the heat in but it might also crack the metal.
bear in mind that your downpipe will glow in the dark most of the time anyway ;)
So, if two EGT sensors are fitted (one per rotor), do I need two gauges, or are there Products available that show split temps in one gauge ?
Your lucky your camera isn\'t melted!
Quote from: wolfie1;837685Your lucky your camera isn\'t melted!
Errrrrrr, it did, but some how it kept recording !! just a melted piece of plastic, but the lens must still work and the SD car was intact. :Giggle
Quote from: C J R;837684So, if two EGT sensors are fitted (one per rotor), do I need two gauges, or are there Products available that show split temps in one gauge ?
i shall have a look for you ;) you would need 2 gauges and 2sensors.
are you running the cast iron HKS manifold?? if so it might be difficult to get some EGT bu ngs welded on:reallymad so your only option would be to see how hot it is in your down pipe....... hmmm, right so back to original suggestion:Hammer in the downpipe.
when was the last time you had the mapped checked? as high EGTs come from leaner conditions i think?? maybe you need to richen it up a little and use the extra to cool things. sound stupid i know.
OR run just water on your injection? as you will be using the methanol as fuel and that could be casuing hotter things.
damn you, you have opened a can of worms in my head now:Laugh:D
just seen you posted on fduk, will let thise guys give you the diagnosis. They know more than me.
i would defo say youneed to measure temps in the exhaust though
Sorry Grant.
Its a HKS tubular manifold (not cast), so welding in bosses should be easier.
WGT mapped it about 2 years ago. It was way too rich (flames had burnt the rear bumper). Pip leaned it out a little, but it has always run fine (still 3\' flames out the tail pipe).
Lots of advice much appreciated guys. At least I have through the winter to get it sorted.
get some probes in there for sure, also what do you think about ceramic coating, i would suggest this over the beannies for sure, but dont get the turbo housing coated. Borgwarner dont hold their warrenty if you coat the turbine housing so im sure other companies will be the same, but manifold and downpipe should be fine
Thanks Grant. I know Shaun has had some coating done, so I\'ll get in touch later.
Beanie is definately going, might fit a shield to allow better air flow over the housing.
Quote from: C J R;837695Thanks Grant. I know Shaun has had some coating done, so I\'ll get in touch later.
Beanie is definately going, might fit a shield to allow better air flow over the housing.
best lace to start, should sort problems quickly
Quote from: C J R;837684So, if two EGT sensors are fitted (one per rotor), do I need two gauges, or are there Products available that show split temps in one gauge ?
Pineapple racing do one, specifically for the higher rotary temps
http://www.pineappleracing.com/dualegtkitrotaryedition.aspx
M1tch, Brilliant link. Thanks
Chris
Quote from: C J R;837701M1tch, Brilliant link. Thanks
Chris
No worries, I guess normal EGR gauges don\'t really go high enough due to the high EGRs on rotaries.
Go for the Zircotec with the performance black. The white is a complete pain to keep clean. Expensive but very much worth it.
Amazing seeing the flames. Poor camera, must be like a melted welly !
Wonder if that is the reason your steering bushes died a melty death !
Shaun
Thats some seriously hot video you been shooting right there Chris.
I am sure you know that the flames are meant to go out the back of the car
I think Stack do a dual EGT gauge as well.
Spa does a dual gauge too !
Shaun
Could you not doing something along the lines what Subaru do? Part of the bonnet scoop channels cold air onto the turbo, I think I have the metal scoop which attaches onto the turbo and channels the air onto it, you can have it if you want, all you would need to do is fit a small scoop on the outside of the bonnet, let me know if you want it
Quote from: wolfie1;837788Could you not doing something along the lines what Subaru do? Part of the bonnet scoop channels cold air onto the turbo, I think I have the metal scoop which attaches onto the turbo and channels the air onto it, you can have it if you want, all you would need to do is fit a small scoop on the outside of the bonnet, let me know if you want it
Hi wolfie,
That sounds great. Do you have a photo ?
Thanks Chris
yeh clearly have a very bad seal on your v-band.. This could be due to over heading when welding the clamp onto your dump pipe.. I would pull the dump off check it with a straigth edge and get a new clamp..
I dont like turbo beanies either as they do keep alot of heat and dont allow what ever air that comes in the front of the car cool the engine bay..
When I get to work tomorrow I will look it out and take a photo and, post it here?
Send me an email and I can email it to you marksangster77 @ live.co.uk (without the spaces)
Mark,
e mail sent.
Many thanks
Chris
Chris. It\'s not unusual for the turbo to glow specially with a beany on, but it looks as though your vband is leaking. It\'s always been a bit of a problem securing it as I remember. Maybe time to invest in a better one maybe ?
Not a bad idea to monitor egt\'s as it will let you know if there are any fuelling/mapping issues.
Any news? Beanie off?
Hi Grant,
Temporary solution for the Breakfast blat to Malton was to seal the down pipe to the Turbo with high temp exhaust paste. It lasted long enough to excite some Porsche drivers in the early morning darkness with an RX flame show.
Over the winter I will swap the beanie for a stainless steel shroud/cover with an air gap around the turbo housing.
I will design and make two cold air supplies to the turbo area, one from the front duct for the oil cooler, routing some flex hose to below the turbo housing, (not too close, just to get an air flow), the other will be to take part of the flow thru the front vent on the bonnet into an air box fixed to the underside of the bonnet to direct air flow to the top area of the housing.
Replacing the clamping flange on the down pipe for a better V Band flange and I\'ve located a very heavy duty V Band Clamp in St. St.
So, that should keep me busy thru the winter !! (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif)
:eek: can\'t help with diagnosis (having experienced only NA rotaries) but I\'m gobsmacked to see flames there! Also amazed (and relieved/pleased!) that under track conditions nothing has caught fire.
Clever to use the keyfob camera to gather solid evidence to confirm your suspicions :Laugh