Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: Brett on August 06, 2012, 11:59:44 AM

Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Brett on August 06, 2012, 11:59:44 AM
I thought there used to be a thread on this?

Anyway... what is the most power people have seen from the FD twin turbo setup?  (Using either 92 or 99 spec turbos, no hybrids) :Talking1
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: m1tch on August 06, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
I think as soon as you get to about 380bhp and it doesn\'t say \'BNR stage 3\' on the side of them, things start to break I think :D
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on August 06, 2012, 12:30:23 PM
I think it\'s somewhere near 420 at the wheels in the uk but they were using a lot of water to get it to those numbers.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Mir on August 06, 2012, 12:30:37 PM
Jason from super7 achieved 400 FWHP.

Cheers
Mir
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Speedline Imports on August 06, 2012, 12:38:20 PM
Going back some years now "Warthog" used to be up there with the highest powered twin at around 380-390 atw I think at around 1.2bar
 
Edit:- http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14548
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: shaunwil on August 06, 2012, 12:48:59 PM
Blimey, that brings back memories. Best I saw was 380 at the flywheel on my twins at 1.05bar. They lasted a good year too !

Shaun
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on August 06, 2012, 01:36:42 PM
Quote from: Speedline Imports;831750Going back some years now "Warthog" used to be up there with the highest powered twin at around 380-390 atw I think at around 1.2bar
 
Edit:- http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14548

That\'s what I was thinking of. Over guessed a bit though
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Iwan on August 06, 2012, 02:57:40 PM
speaking about the stock twins and from what I know, the 99 TypeR/RS/SpiritR twins and earlier versions are not the same.

If the question is about the 99 twins, you need to tell us which version you mean. If talking about the AT and RB version, them are the same as the post 96 (N3C1) twins, if you are talking bout Type R/RS/SpiritR twins (N3G1), is a different thing.

The older one and post 99 Type RB and AT type twins (N3C1) will support the most power (over 400 ponies).

Myself, the highest power I reached with stock twins was 402HP at fly.

Hope this helps!
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Brett on August 06, 2012, 03:23:14 PM
Thanks Iwan - that\'s a good breakdown of info :)
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: cyman on August 06, 2012, 07:56:07 PM
i was getting 400fwhp at 1 bar on my non seq twins. i had re worked and matched the manifold and hotside housings
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: wolfie1 on August 06, 2012, 08:13:05 PM
i am a little bit confused with this now, i have a 94 type rz fd what kind of twins would be on that? i know running higher boost is not good for any rotary but what am i likely to get away with my 94 engine on about 27000 miles from new?
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Timmy on August 06, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
Quote from: Mir;831748Jason from super7 achieved 400 FWHP.

Cheers
Mir

Recently? The same car that also made 385ft/lbs of torque?
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on August 06, 2012, 09:46:01 PM
Quote from: wolfie1;831821i am a little bit confused with this now, i have a 94 type rz fd what kind of twins would be on that? i know running higher boost is not good for any rotary but what am i likely to get away with my 94 engine on about 27000 miles from new?

Don\'t believe the "you can\'t run high boost on rotary" myth. I used to think that. It\'s more a case of we don\'t really need to run more than 1 bar to make great power. But many people run double that. All depends on setup and mapping.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Will66 on August 06, 2012, 11:07:01 PM
Provided you can keep it cool you can run quite a bit of boost.  Heat is the enemy and by keeping it at bay you can make bucket loads of power out of a rotary.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 07, 2012, 03:24:02 PM
Obviously you need fuelling and cooling mods to support 0.8 BAR plus boost and above.
At 1.2 BAR stock twins dont last too long
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Brett on August 07, 2012, 04:08:15 PM
All interesting stuff - I see a lot of people choosing small/mid sized singles and not running significantly different figures.  I guess the change over is usually related to simplification and reliability.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 07, 2012, 05:18:51 PM
Brett most people on stock twins only see roughly 330bhp at the fly with stock twins and stock ports, someone with even a T04E can reliably beat that.
A Street ported engine with stock twins at sensiable boost will make 360 fly. Someone with a T04E will make 400 fly reliably on street port.

400 at the fly for stock twins everything has to be spot on and not kill the turbos too quickly
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Mir on August 07, 2012, 05:44:28 PM
Quote from: Timmy;831840Recently? The same car that also made 385ft/lbs of torque?

It was not recently. I think it was his own silver FD.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Timmy on August 07, 2012, 05:52:15 PM
Didn\'t realise the silver one was that powerfull, when i went in it the power delivery was really linear very nice drive.
He mapped mine at the weekend which was just short of 400bhp on sequentials but the car apparently has quite a bit more to give.

I don\'t know why people "upgrade" to small singles as alot of people don\'t seem to make huge gains over the twins.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Mir on August 07, 2012, 05:56:52 PM
Quote from: Timmy;831970Didn\'t realise the silver one was that powerfull, when i went in it the power delivery was really linear very nice drive.
He mapped mine at the weekend which was just short of 400bhp on sequentials but the car apparently has quite a bit more to give.

I don\'t know why people "upgrade" to small singles as alot of people don\'t seem to make huge gains over the twins.

The Silver one is going to put up a great show this time round at the Santa Pod:) ;)
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: wolfie1 on August 07, 2012, 08:35:52 PM
i have a power fc, 1680 secondry injectors, arc standard mount intercooler, an aluminium race radiator and a vented bonnet and headlight cover amongst other things and am running at 0.95 bar of boost, could it safely run at 1.1 bar, i take it the fueling would have to be turned up too, what kind of afr am i needing to have?
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 08, 2012, 11:28:06 AM
Quote from: Mir;831971The Silver one is going to put up a great show this time round at the Santa Pod:) ;)

Is he going to put it on the strip? it should do mid 12s with that power if its near 400 fly
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: HaywardRotary on August 08, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
The real issue with stock twins on and FD is they do not last if boost is turned up much over 1bar.
As for aftermarket turbos, ie single big turbos you can run hi boost but you do need to have thr right ancillaries in place and good fuel depending on boost level and mods.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Mir on August 08, 2012, 11:59:40 AM
Quote from: BlitzBoy;832109Is he going to put it on the strip? it should do mid 12s with that power if its near 400 fly

AFAIK, it will be going up the strip, but it no longer have twins or stock ported engine:eek::King. Last time I spoke with him, he said, He is preparing his car for some fun. So, if all goes well, we would have another powereful FD on the strip lolll

Mir
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: m1tch on August 08, 2012, 12:50:23 PM
Quote from: HaywardRotary;832113The real issue with stock twins on and FD is they do not last if boost is turned up much over 1bar.
As for aftermarket turbos, ie single big turbos you can run hi boost but you do need to have thr right ancillaries in place and good fuel depending on boost level and mods.

Sounds like the same as the FC turbos then as they run out of puff at about 1bar and begin to shorten its life expectancy if you push them any further.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Timmy on August 08, 2012, 02:53:16 PM
What goes wrong when you go over a 1bar not that i\'m planning to but can\'t really see why it would cause a failure of the turbo. I always thought going over 1bar just put you out of the turbo\'s efficientcy.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Brett on August 08, 2012, 02:58:04 PM
I\'d imagine that its because you\'re working the turbo out of its design range; more rpm on the shaft, more strain & more heat.  (At a guess)

Is yours the white FD at Jason\'s?
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on August 08, 2012, 03:34:27 PM
I do believe the start getting very very hot over that threshold. Saying that mine peaked at 1.1 bar and I ran it at the that for 2 years. Started smoking a bit but I rekon if I had a new set I could have upped them more, and a nice bit of WI would have been great.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 08, 2012, 03:38:57 PM
Quote from: Timmy;832150What goes wrong when you go over a 1bar not that i\'m planning to but can\'t really see why it would cause a failure of the turbo. I always thought going over 1bar just put you out of the turbo\'s efficientcy.

Its the small shafts of the stock twin turbo wheels when you overspeed them that much to produce that high boost level of 1.1-1.2 bar the bush bearings dont last to long, the edges of the blades start to hit the housings as well as the bearings go, so it looks like mice have started to eat your blades.
Title: Most power seen on stock/99 twins?
Post by: HaywardRotary on August 09, 2012, 09:54:35 AM
The issue that the twins have that are making at over 1 bar boost is the oil that lubricates them to gets too hot from the turbine wheel getting much hotter and then the oil is no longer able to protect the bearings in the same way that it can at lower boost levels.