Well I did 3 laps today of coombe and pulled off just not happy when the temp got to 115!
I think i know the answer if i want to do track work i\'m gonna need togo Vmount?
I have a huge Front Mount IC and a 50mm Koyo rad behind ....am i right the FMIC is blocking air flow through the Rad?
Shes fine on the road but on track on boost all the time temps rise rapidly.
any ideas?
Yea plus the heat from the cooler hits the rad... You thought about water injection ? Aftermarket bumper lets more air in too...
She got me home so i thank the ol girl for that Apexi sayin 87deg C at mo so still not goona take rad cap off.....bottom rad pipe is currently sucked flat..///?????Cap defo lifted.
Rad cap off only 30ml drop will check again tomoz.....done a champayne test all good no water seal issue.
...........nearly blew up but couldn\'t let that M3 think he got by me.....i was on my warm up lap.......
Fmic has to come off....
Been out for a drive and all sweet on road....no water usage ......temps at 90 deg C..
V mount set up aint cheap ...................:reallymad
yea it is a scary price, i was looking for 1, i suppose if you had a second car time and patience you could make something up cheaper
Quote from: wolfie1;830707yea it is a scary price, i was looking for 1, i suppose if you had a second car time and patience you could make something up cheaper
Think i might be trying to swap the two around....rad at front...have use of another car .....just a shame as front mount looks so good and was a sod to fit!
doing that would prob give you higher inlet temps! i am seriously thinking about buying a front mount ic and then try spacing down the undertray to scoop cold air up onto the radiator.
did you have to cut away parts of your bumper? how about putting an alloy radiator in to help with water cooling?
I have just come in from staring at my rad and ic setup pondering what todo!!!
I have a huge fmic and a 50mm alloy rad....I relocated battery to boot and took out the aircon pump and condensor when i installed the rad and IC. The bumper requires trimming at the opening to the engine. I used an electric saw . My rad sits on lower original mounts but is more upright due to the 2 ic pipes not allowing it sit in the original place. The under tray is on and all holes blocked and even got some pipe insulation down each side of the rad to box it in.
...I like your idea of scooping cold air from under tray :).....food for thought gonna try this route first.....Its the nice weather we have just been having back in May on track she was fine......just need to encourage some air flow through rad.
Quote from: boosted;830703Been out for a drive and all sweet on road....no water usage ......temps at 90 deg C..
V mount set up aint cheap ...................:reallymad
Hmm, yeah 90C is kinda on the high side for normal driving, mine sits around 80C, if it gets much beyond 90C after hard driving I don\'t like it.
However the Feed FMIC I have sits higher up so there is some direct air going to the bottom of the rad.
Hmm, I wonder if you could sit a scoop in one of the oil cooler ducts and pipe it round?
Fecked around with some ducting...little or no effect and made me car look like summit out of blue peter!!!LOL. 85 on tickover and fans running all the time after a 20 min hoon not regulating and again 95 with some 2/3/4 WOT . Just dont trust it.
Only running 0.85 bar on the twins so FMIC is coming off and rad can go back into normal position and i\'ll run a SMIC.
lesson..........learnt...........
sods law was gonna put on PH and Ebay as have my eye on a single locally.
Are you sure your not getting an airlock? Your coolant pipes shouldn\'t be getting sucked flat, ever. I had fmic and 50mm rad and never saw higher than 95 water temps doing constant WOT pulls at santapod in the red hot heat.
Do you have any antifreeze in your system? That helps cool temps a bit too
I was running huge street port and 1bar too
Check both fans come on, also make sure you have a new thermostat installed, that should solve it tbh I run oil cooler and intercooler and air con I font of my t51 single and don\'t suffer. Happy to take a look at yours
The bottom house sucked flat i noticed after Coombe when i got home ( 115 deg C! after 2 WOT laps). The one and only time i\'ve seen it......
Thing is this set up has been on a while and i did 15 mins of Combe back in May with no issue......
she got 70/30 mix red coolant. less than year old.
Just had a another look......i can turn water pump pulley ( dragon 1 ) by hand when the engine is stationary:2eek:2eek:2eek (i.e belt stationary and turn water pump by hand......despite looking tight with curve round it.....is this slippin at high revs? I would nt hear it.
Gonna tension adjust and go for a drive.......neighbours have a house viewing so sat on my hands at mo as promised would make any noise !!!:wiggle
all help greatly appreciated, so glad i had the apexi on water coolant monitor i would never have known i had an issue til to late!
If the pumps not turning the belt then it needs tightening for sure, get a new stat too like Dave said. How old is the actual water pump? I replaced mine when the engine blew a few years back as it was old and broke, most of the bits of it were stuck in the radiator iirc
I\'m in Yate let me know if you want to pop down for a head scratch and cuppa tea while trying to resolve it
Your a star mate, was just about to ask where you are!
Gonna see if tensioning belt sorts it .......suspect i\'ll be heading your way though as belt backing would be shredded if slipping and its not.
On nights this week so afternoons would be great ,ill let you know.
:Thumbs-up:Thumbs-up:Thumbs-up:Thumbs-up:Thumbs-up
I work days so only free evenings apart from this friday
......nope no better ......
right action plan i\'ll change thermostat and water pump .
Watch this space !!!
Cheers guys for all your help.:Thumbs-up
Dave i\'ll try above and then ill take you up on offer if not solved . :Thumbs-up
mmmmm. still a bit high at mo ran out of time b4 night shift!
Thermostat arrived so removed housing and had a boil off in saucepan old versus new and gold for new and silver for old LOL. In all fairness not a lot in it!
New one in and all topped up got to 100 deg C after 10 mins of WOT but need to repair the hole in my undertray from heath robinson ducting that is now removed.
Got 1 of the rectangle panel out but doubt it.....?
Theres some tiny play in bearing on water pump thats next.
Week end now before next play as want to really flush out as despite new fluid within the year its all brown ....prob not sufficiently flushed by me last time.
Gonna connect the garden hose to it this time and run til clear.
Red or Blue coolant?
did you make sure ou fitted the thermostat the corrct way up? its an easy think to fit wrong without knowing it
This might help for track days .
http://www.rotechniks.co.uk/acatalog/Waterless-Engine-Coolants.html
Quote from: davehg;831090did you make sure ou fitted the thermostat the corrct way up? its an easy think to fit wrong without knowing it
.....:3Confused just got in after night shift....The larger body part was in the housing as opposed to inside the block....i\'ll google it later....its coming off again at weekend anyways....as i now have some doubt in my mind!lol:2Confused:xconfused
It\'s the loose rattle bit that goes through the hole of the thermostat that needs to be on the top. This can easily be fitted any way round by mistake
mmmmm. ok will check sat as for the life of me cant remember i put the new one in the same way i found the old 1. I assume if in wrong way round then delay in open as thermostatic element sat in cold side.
it wouldnt open, it would be fighting against the flow
Have you any images of the Front Mount, including the tubes and fins ? Is a high air flow version (designed for front mount setup, not v-mount setup).
How have you been bleeding the system ?
Only other thought is a bad sensor, I think the workshop manual has the resistance levels for the water temp sensor.
Shaun
Cheers guys, brill some more suggestion of things to check, I\'ll get some photos up as well asap.
I bled by burping pipes, running til warm, cool down top up etc multipe times. my levels are spot on both caps 5mm gap then fluid.....i was only loosing coolant when on 0.9 bar cap but now on 1.3 but obviously cap is masking the problem.
Are you running dual or a single oil cooler(s)? Are they ducted? That will make a large difference.
You can replace the standard thermosensor for a late FC3S thermo sensor if you haven\'t already (Part no: PN41-18-840). The stock thermosensor grounds a fan relay at 107 degrees. Waaaaay too hot. The FC3S thermosensor fits without modification and grounds the fan relay at 95 Degrees, so basically making the fans come on earlier.
Are you running a PFC? What temp have you set your fans to come online at in the PFC? (You\'ll need a datalogit to set this & 85 degrees is a sensible temp setting).
Is your intercooler/radiator properly ducted? Pics of your setup? :)
I\'m sure you know this but if you turn on your A/C, that also grounds a fan relay, making your fans faster (Even works if you\'ve removed the A/C). In this kinda situation, turn it on.
You should get away with an FMIC in the UK no problem.
Some pics running PFC fans on at 85 C. Ac removed. IS thermostat fitted correctly? Fair bit of sludge when draining this part. Ducting removed at mo. Some oil in my ic piping !!! http://s1065.photobucket.com/albums/u397/boosted38/?action=view¤t=rx7oh011.jpg
Wierd....photo of thermostat lost in cyber space.... so bulk of unit spring etc goes in first to block and housing over top ?
Gonna flush tomoz whats the best way gonna connect garden hose to ???
running twin oil cooler and ducted.
Any suggestions guys? Tubes and fins ok? No sign off water pump yet.....
Rad cap 0.9 or 1.3 ?
I am going to flush engine with water from hose pipe as want it to run clear instead of brown. Refill with water and insert stat in right way ( found a you tube clip so 100% ) and try again! If still not ok off to see Dave in Yate for me cup of tea !
0.9 cap do all fans work ok? All caps work ok?
Just rummaging through your images and one suggestion is take off the front plate and stick it in the windscreen. See if that helps.
Shaun
Unless you have a 99 spec bumper which has the plate shape molded in to the bumper !
Shaun
Right...i\'ve had a play.....i have flushed from hose pipe all sediment and water is lovely and clear ( i\'ll put coolant in later once i know cooling issue sorted). Its all back together and 100% thermostat is in right. I have had running x3 heat cycles on drive way both fans cutting in at 85 C on Apexi and dropping temps to 80 deg c. Have topped up once. Now leavin til morning when i will recheck levels and take for a blast. Found my AST was full of crud like radseal/kseal. Flush loads from car intself.
Bumper wise on track my front number plate was removed and i have 5 x50mm holes drilled in bumper behind !
Has to be ducting issue as heat cycling on drive way????
Is this an issue? From my Ast i have no return to the bottom of the rad as the Alloy one had no fitment for this? So its plugged. I \'ve been for a drive but still rising but its my wifes Birthday so not "playing with my car" today ....lol as prefer my " m10 nylocks" where they are !
well i got 2 slim baking trays from kitchen and cut 1 edge off with the grinder....pop riveted to undertray and voilà ! few cable ties later undertray air scoop that bypasses FMIC.
On tick over with fans running i can feel the air being sucked through the baking tray scoop!
Pure and simply air flow issue..........looks awful but does the job.
i was thinking something along the lines of this but using the actual undertray as the scoop, whats the temps like now?
Have not been above 93 deg C ! And i was launching in 1st 2nd and 3rd....also noticably quicker to return to 80 deg c when cruising outta boost gonna lower front edge a bit more so baking tray intake into air stream tad more..... but there\'s a balance between air scoop and ripping the tray off LOL! .... I\'ll prob make summit out of alloy chequer plate long term.
Final tweak cruising at 78 deg C ! rises to 90 ish and quickly returns. Don\'t think i\'ll track the old girl again.....
Somethings wrong cruising temp should be 86C.
Quote from: Timmy;832151Somethings wrong cruising temp should be 86C.
Been on a longer drive settled at 85 deg C hits 95 deg C with some boost down the dual carriageways. Happy it\'s sorted now will add coolant at weekend.
:burnout:burnout:burnout:burnout:burnout:burnout:burnout:burnout:burnout
Running a vmount and on my way to combe cruising temps sit at a steady 73 - 74, on track they were high 70\'s, low 80\'s. No undertray by the way!
Just to put in a few things that i noticed.
Ducting is the most important thing here. A clean radiator is also important. But ducting between IC and rad is the most important thing. Remeber air goes the way with the least resistance. And that\'s on the side, under and over the rad. It needs to be ducted on all 4 sides. Secondly rad needs to be clean and in good condition. Fans need to be ok, stock fans are not the best in the world. Some aftermarket once will help alot.
Ducting of oil coolers helps alot as well. As the lower your oil temps are the lower your water temp is. Also a good oil helps alot. Cheap thin mineral oil sucks big time. Also does old oil. I always change oil before each track session. And uses Agip 10-60 oil. The thicker the more cooling properties. You can run mineral oil, but needs to be thick and changed for every session.
Also for the waterpump you can get a mazmart waterpump that flows about 30% more.
Last thing to do is get the heat out of your engine bay. It get\'s hot under there and it needs to go somewhere.
JT
It\'s sorted now with some air scoops in the undertray works a treat , come to the conclusion the odd session like Japfest at 90% fun but gonna save the old girl from my regular open sessions at Coombe and Keevil .....i have a dedicated track car after all that
has taken 3 years of punishment and does exactly what i want it to do............plus i get 3 times the mileage round Coombe in the colt gti and its 1 sec a lap quicker!!! ...just a pain in the arse when you get stuck behind summit quicker on the straights .