Mazda Rotary Club

General => Rotary and General Chit-Chat => Topic started by: clive on June 17, 2012, 12:20:49 PM

Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: clive on June 17, 2012, 12:20:49 PM
The Mazda North American boss announced on Eurosport yesterday that Mazda will officially be going back to LeMans next year with a Diesel as per Audi !

The commentator pushed a couple of times to find out if it would be a Rotary but all he would commit to was that the Rotary is a small compact unit that as many Rotary people here will know will run on a multitude of fuels including Diesel

Maybe we will see the 16X development manifest itself as a  Diesel unit ?.

For those who do not know, Mazda is still the only Japanese car maker to win Le Mans and with Audi dominating again this year Toyota won\'t be changing that this year either.
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: shaunwil on June 17, 2012, 12:28:10 PM
For all the changes at Lemans it is more likely to be a small 1.6TDI lump like the the Deltawing unfortunately. Would be awesome if they had made a diesel 16x though !

Shaun
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: jetpilot on June 17, 2012, 12:34:44 PM
Good news, but, really hate the whole diesel concept, not as much as i hate the hybrid concept though!

There have been some heavy debates/arguments on Pistonheads about diesel and now hybrid LeMans cars! I know the whole concept of Endurance racing is longevity and less time in the pits means more on track but from what i can gather the regs are stacked in the favour of diesels and on that basis i dont really get it! Petrols and diesels/ hybrids (if thats what you want to develop need to operate on a level playing field!
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on June 17, 2012, 12:47:30 PM
I think a rotary diesel would work very well, diesels need heat and not a spark plug of which we all know a turbo rotary produces lots of heat. I think it would rev like a piston engine too.

Anyway we shall see what they come out with. When is lemans?
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: jetpilot on June 17, 2012, 01:21:46 PM
This weekend :)
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on June 17, 2012, 01:25:55 PM
Take it they\'re racing now then? I\'m watching moto gp at the mo
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: kiwimazda on June 17, 2012, 03:04:28 PM
It will be piston power for sure. That\'s where the core market for cars is and what they need to sell. Unfortunately granny going to buy her new car will be in a demographic group that will dictate any car manufacturers target audience. As they say what wins on sunday sells on Monday. I suspect there is a massive que down at the local Audi dealer right now for a le mans style car to rake home.
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on June 17, 2012, 04:32:59 PM
Well I did wonder why I was seeing so many of the LMP1 and LMP2s driving around Huddersfield these days. ;)

Car racing is becoming a joke, where noise limits and the powers that be decide what we have to race with. When car racing become governed by electric cars I will not watch it and take up table tennis.

It does make me laugh how LMP1 stands for lemans prototype 1. There isn\'t anything prototype about using a diesel like all the other teams is there.

We can hope its a rotary.
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: kiwimazda on June 17, 2012, 04:43:29 PM
So in theory I could take my Suzuki swift engine with 160bhp, stick it in the back of a radical, call it a :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:zuki and go race at le man
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: Brett on June 17, 2012, 11:03:34 PM
I think a rotary diesel needs a miller tyoe cycle to work effectively.  Good luck to Mazda though :)
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: kev-yorks on June 18, 2012, 12:06:16 AM
That would be a interesting motor Brett Miller cycling a Rotary...............for a boinger the 2.3 miller was certainly a cracking bit of kit. Revs may be a issue possibly for the charger unless you went with two stage charging and a electronic clutch, or possibly charger low end and turbo upper revs which may work better.
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: zeppelin101 on June 18, 2012, 07:26:32 AM
Quote from: jetpilot;826680There have been some heavy debates/arguments on Pistonheads about diesel and now hybrid LeMans cars! I know the whole concept of Endurance racing is longevity and less time in the pits means more on track but from what i can gather the regs are stacked in the favour of diesels and on that basis i dont really get it! Petrols and diesels/ hybrids (if thats what you want to develop need to operate on a level playing field!

The rules have levelled out since Audi first came to the party with a diesel. The problem is that the ACO really need to be updating the rules every year as the engines are getting more efficient as the teams tweak between seasons so that everyone can be competitive.

Not exactly feasible to tweak the rules to penalise the teams who are making significant progress or you\'ll bin them out the competition entirely before long.

Diesels and hybrids are here to stay in sports car racing - best get used to it!

It won\'t be long before hybrids are common place in most top open wheel formula (already in F1 as we know) with the emphasis no doubt moving further towards electric power over the next 15 years.

Motorsport has always been the proving ground for new technology that eventually filters down to road cars, particularly with respect to powertrains. If it survives 24 hours at Le Mans AND the car in question wins the race, how better to prove your stuff works and works well?

The old adage of "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" still holds true in that respect.
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: B.Martin on June 18, 2012, 08:48:45 AM
I thought the rotary was banned from Le Mans after the 787 dominated all before it?
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on June 18, 2012, 09:29:52 AM
Quote from: B.Martin;826778I thought the rotary was banned from Le Mans after the 787 dominated all before it?

It wasnt banned. The rules were changed to bring the teams closer together performance wise. Us rotards say it got banned to enfuriate others. Lol
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: clive on June 18, 2012, 09:39:32 AM
I\'ve no doubt that this will be a proper news item in Autosport magazine this week,

They have been using a Lola chassis with a Cosworth engine in ALMS but with Lola in administration I wonder what they will use this time.

A little more info came out at the end of the race in that the Mazda will enter LMP2 so it will not be taking on Audi and Toyota head to head :( , also "if" it entered it\'s own chassis they would have to build it to take other manufactures engines :xconfused
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: zeppelin101 on June 18, 2012, 10:42:34 AM
Quote from: clive;826782A little more info came out at the end of the race in that the Mazda will enter LMP2 so it will not be taking on Audi and Toyota head to head :( , also "if" it entered it\'s own chassis they would have to build it to take other manufactures engines :xconfused

Cost. Developing both will cost a fortune, developing one and buying in the other will undoubtedly be much, much cheaper.
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on June 18, 2012, 11:04:52 AM
Thu still have the 26B laying around that\'s just been rebuilt. Put that in the chassis as it will be free :D

Stick a turbo in there whilst they\'re at it
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: kevint on June 18, 2012, 11:20:42 AM
http://www.fullboost.com.au/news.php?newsId=2580

Mazda Motorsports has announced that it will sell racing versions of its new SKYACTIV-D clean diesel engines to teams competing in the Le Mans Prototype 2 (LMP2) class of racing’s greatest endurance challenge – the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The Le Mans engine program will make its debut at the 2013 running of the race. Mazda was the first – and to this day, remains the only – Asian manufacturer to score an overall win at the race, in 1991.

“This reopens our love affair with Le Mans,” said Jay Amestoy, Vice President of Mazda Motorsports, Mazda North American Operations (MNAO). “In 1991 we made history, winning with rotary technology. Now we’re looking to return to the winner’s circle with what we believe will be the most advanced and cleanest production-based powerplant the sport has ever seen.

We’ll do it in current Mazda style, with engines being available for sale to European and U.S. customers competing in the LMP2 class for both the World Endurance Championship (WEC) and the American Le Mans Series (ALMS).”

The engines are being developed jointly by Mazda Motor Corporation, Mazda North American Operations and SpeedSource Race Engineering. Dyno testing has already begun and on-track testing begins in late 2012.

The engines will be stock-block Mazda SKYACTIV-D 2.2-liter diesel four-cylinder, dual-stage turbocharged powerplants. According to John Doonan, MNAO’s Director of Mazda Motorsports, “will deliver outstanding performance and fuel economy coupled with the kind of quality, durability and reliability needed to produce great street cars and win endurance races.”

Mr. Masahiro Moro, Executive Officer in charge of global sales and marketing of Mazda Motor Corporation, made the following comment: "Mazda has fostered the culture of \'never stop challenging.\' And it was this spirit that drove us through 18 consecutive years of racing at Le Mans, until we finally triumphed in 1991. In fact, it is this same spirit that laid the foundation for the portfolio of SKYACTIV Technologies. This was realized thanks to a number of technological breakthroughs. I am pleased that we will be supporting our private customers who are taking up the Le Mans challenge by supplying race engines as a customer-program based on our SKYACTIV-D clean diesel."
Title: Mazda Officially going back to LeMans
Post by: a.tapos on June 18, 2012, 12:49:02 PM
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;826682I think a rotary diesel would work very well, diesels need heat and not a spark plug of which we all know a turbo rotary produces lots of heat. I think it would rev like a piston engine too.
 
Anyway we shall see what they come out with. When is lemans?

Granted they need the heat but they also need twice the comp of a petrol to meet emissions and run post/pre injection so would probably not start at all if it drops off.
 
im sure the clever boys at mazda could if they wanted but mileage and wear would be so hard to compensate for on a rotary diesel