Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 2nd generation RX-7's => Topic started by: BinoX on June 08, 2012, 09:21:08 PM

Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 08, 2012, 09:21:08 PM
This is probably a question that has been answered many times before, but I couldn\'t find it in the search.. Maybe because I\'m useless, maybe the answer isn\'t there...

Anyway...

I just got a new exhaust system through and I need a lambda sensor for it (an \'eBay special\' exhaust, but it was cheap, lol... got it for £160 (brand new), but it\'s still dual outlet which is something I am very particular about)... Am I ok to just get a cheap single wire lambda sensor or should I go for a more expensive one... If the more expensive one, which one would you recommend?

Thanks in advance :)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Prof on June 08, 2012, 09:34:53 PM
If you are using it with the standard ECU then the £17 specials on ebay will work - as it\'s just a narrow band sensor.
 
You could put a wideband in there, which will give you much better information about your state of tune on the engine, these use a controller device, a seperate gauge, but almost all the ones I\'ve seen can output a narrow band signal to emulate the funciton of a narrow band sensor - ideal if you are using a piggy back or standard ecu and don\'t have multiple o2 sensor bungs in the exhaust.
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 08, 2012, 09:51:17 PM
Thanks,

It\'ll be running on an RE Amemiya ECU that I\'m in the process of buying from Adam_fc... which as far as I know is just a chipped standard ECU... so I assume a cheap one will be ok?

But I didn\'t know about the controllers that can output a narrowband signal from a wideband one... Any suggestions for that, or should I just look and get one that I like the look of? :)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Prof on June 08, 2012, 10:03:48 PM
I use the Innovate LC-1, but I\'ve heard from others that AEM, UEGO and PLX all provide that funtionallity and are good controllers.
 
A good wideband is not a bad idea if you\'re starting to play with exhaust and chipped ECU, at least you\'ll know the air fuel ratio.
 
These things aren\'t cheap new - anything from £120 - £300, but it could help you keep an engine ;)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: m1tch on June 08, 2012, 10:14:04 PM
Wideband O2 sensor and gauge = £120 - £300 (I got my Stack setup for £185)
Engine rebuild = £1200 - £3000

I know what I would rather spend my money buying :)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 08, 2012, 10:34:46 PM
Very true... The engine wasn\'t rebuilt that long ago, so I don\'t want it to blow this soon...

Until this thread I had no idea that you could even get something that let you use a wideband sensor with a narrowband system...

£120 - £300 isn\'t too bad... I can probably afford it in a month or 2 (I generally allow £100 a month for this project, sometimes less depending on bills/house repairs)

I probably won\'t be fitting the new exhaust until August anyway, so I have a bit of time to save / sell stuff / fix people\'s computers :)

Thanks for the advice :) I\'ll be keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a wideband controller
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: m1tch on June 08, 2012, 10:43:04 PM
The narrow band sensor on the FC is only used for the cruise part of the map so isn\'t used that much, the wideband is a good safety measure to have, some of them alarm when it goes over a set AFR when its on wide open throttle (mine came with a microswitch to log what the AFR was on wide open).

Key thing is to get a setup with a Bosch sensor

This is what I have:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Search.do?method=delegate&n=1322&p=249506&s=Stack+Wideband+Lambda+Gauge

Comes with the gauge and the wideband sensor, its all plug and play, just need to provide it with power and it also has a wideband O2 signal out as well (which is plugged into my e-manage ultimate).
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 08, 2012, 11:45:39 PM
Thanks :) I\'ll keep that one in mind

I\'m gunna have to look around and see what I can find over the next couple of months... I\'m gunna be looking for something that matches the design for the interior that I have in my head....

I\'m mainly building it up to be a show car, but one that I can have fun driving as well :)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: m1tch on June 09, 2012, 07:49:30 AM
My stack gauge has pretty flashing lights :D
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 09, 2012, 01:26:34 PM
Haha, always a bonus :)

It\'s not far off the look I have in my head, so I may well end up with it... but since I have a bit of time to spare before purchasing it\'s worth keeping my eyes open :)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 11, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
What do you guys think of this one: http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=WDBDM300TE ?

Will that be OK?
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: m1tch on June 11, 2012, 07:54:00 PM
Its got a Bosch sensor, but its also more expensive than what I got by quite a bit, the reason why I got mine is that it had visual lights around the gauge to show you exactly what the AFR was at a glance without having to work out if 13.7:1 was too lean lol

Just found this nice Innovate setup, all plug and play

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INNOVATE-MTX-L-AFR-Wideband-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Gauge-3844-/300506017816?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45f78df018

Or indeed an AEM one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEM-DIGITAL-WIDEBAND-UEGO-CONTROLLER-FREE-SHIP-UK-/270660136399?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f0499edcf
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 11, 2012, 08:33:03 PM
I was interested in the PLX one because it ISN\'T actually a gauge... I want to be able to pick and choose what it actually looks like because I have a particular gauge look in mind...

Although I have just found this: http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=SEMOSMAFRV2 Which seems to be the same one without the display on the front, but it still have the "passthrough" so I can buy the gauge that I want... Because annoyingly the gauge that I want doesn\'t have the wideband -> narrowband in it... although I suppose I could just drill and weld in another threaded bit for a second sensor if I\'m gunna go that far

It\'s not a matter of price, it\'s a matter of aesthetics, lol... Just need to know if I\'m selecting the right kind of thing, lol
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: m1tch on June 11, 2012, 08:47:24 PM
Quote from: BinoX;825982I was interested in the PLX one because it ISN\'T actually a gauge... I want to be able to pick and choose what it actually looks like because I have a particular gauge look in mind...

Although I have just found this: http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=SEMOSMAFRV2 Which seems to be the same one without the display on the front, but it still have the "passthrough" so I can buy the gauge that I want... Because annoyingly the gauge that I want doesn\'t have the wideband -> narrowband in it... although I suppose I could just drill and weld in another threaded bit for a second sensor if I\'m gunna go that far

It\'s not a matter of price, it\'s a matter of aesthetics, lol... Just need to know if I\'m selecting the right kind of thing, lol

Why would you want a narrowband setting on it? Its useless to have on a gauge

Here is the Innovate setup prof has (he has used his own gauge for it)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INNOVATE-LC-1-LC1-LAMBDA-CABLE-O2-WIDEBAND-SENSOR-3769-/370521485756?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item5644cd31bc
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 11, 2012, 09:15:22 PM
I meant that I want the narrowband output to feed back into the ECU...

I assumed that the circuitry would be housed in the back of the gauge when it comes as a "complete kit"..

Although looking through the LC-1 Manual, it seems that assumption is incorrect...

From what I can gather from the LC-1 Manual (If I understand it correctly) there seems to be a narrowband output, that could be used for the ECU, and a wideband output for whatever gauge I want to connect... Is that correct?
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Prof on June 11, 2012, 10:18:17 PM
Yep - the LC-1 has 2 analog outputs - they are both configurable, but come preset as a 1-0v signal (to emulate a narrowband) and a 0-5v signal for feeding into a piggy back or standalone ecu, although you can connect it to a gauge. You can also set it to provide 0-2v output so that it can drive a digital panel meter directly giving a digital display of AFR. The LC-1 also has a digital output that can be connected to either a laptop and / or one of their digital gauges (XD-16) which you can configure the colour of the LED\'s arond the edge (not sure about the digital display in the centre).
 
If you want customisable AFR gauges - the PLX range have a gauge that can be configued to look like anything - but the system is pricey.
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: BinoX on June 11, 2012, 10:23:30 PM
Ah I understand :)

Thx to both of you for being patient with me and my questions, I\'m still new at this kind of thing :)

The LC-1 probably is what I\'ll end up going for :)  I don\'t think I\'ll go for the fully customisable PLX range... Maybe in the future if the money comes rolling in ;) What I have my eyes on at the moment will probably be expensive enough :)

Thx again :)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 16, 2012, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: Prof;825738If you are using it with the standard ECU then the £17 specials on ebay will work - as it\'s just a narrow band sensor.

Do you know if the FD uses the same sensor?
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Prof on June 17, 2012, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: Ricco_04;826624Do you know if the FD uses the same sensor?

As far as I know it does.  I\'ve got the FSM for the early FD\'s and that has the same 1 wire sensor in the circuit diagram.
 
The lambda sensor only actually does anything when you are in the cruise part of the map between about 1000 rpm and 3000 rpm on light to medium load.   So it doesn\'t have anything to do with emissions on idle, and it can\'t keep up at the higher revs / boost parts of the map so is just ignored by the ECU.  Anyone who has ever wired in one of those cheaper A/F gauges will be able to see this actualy working - as you see the gauge bounce from rich to lean rapidly when the ECU is using the lambda sensor - otherwise it\'s mostly just showing rich ;)
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 17, 2012, 10:03:36 AM
Cheers Prof :wave

Yes mine has the 1 wire sensor.  Assume the ebay one is this fella : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-323-91-97-MX5-90-94-PREMACY-RX7-92-97-NEW-1-WIRE-Oxygen-02-Lambda-Sensor-/290654798001?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43ac6040b1

Mine is set to off.  Tried it and it seemed to only have voltage some of the time.  Have to try it again and see if the voltage dies when it matches the perameters you describe.  Sure it doesnt though so I think its knackered.

Ill have a punt if the ebay item is correct, if it makes no difference then ill just turn it off again! :rolleyes:
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Prof on June 17, 2012, 01:10:35 PM
The ECU will run without the lambda sensor plugged in - it normally throws one or two error codes - you\'ll probably get the o2 sensor code, but you can also get the feedback loop code as well.
 
All the ECU does is run fixed maps for those parts of the maps, based on the AFM and MAP signals - so basically it will run a tiny bit rich but it\'s actually not that bad.  You\'ll notice the drop in fuel economy only on long runs when it would have been at cruise, so if you only ever take the car out to have a good burn, you\'re not missing anything ;)
 
 
That sensor looks like the one I got - that was also listed for MX5 and 323.
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 17, 2012, 01:33:07 PM
Thanks mate. Yeah I use the car daily so I might get a reasonable benefit.  Long journeys, as you say, I have noticed nothing really different. Be interesting to see what the fast idle emissions are for the next mot. :o

It\'s on a PFC, was just going through it and noticed that it was switched off so its been that way for years.  I just assumed that the mapper forgot to turn it back on but might be because its faulty then!

Ill have a look at the voltage readings next time just to make sure it is knackered - I assume it should ALWAYS have a voltage?
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Prof on June 17, 2012, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Ricco_04;826693Thanks mate. Yeah I use the car daily so I might get a reasonable benefit. Long journeys, as you say, I have noticed nothing really different. Be interesting to see what the fast idle emissions are for the next mot. :o
 
It\'s on a PFC, was just going through it and noticed that it was switched off so its been that way for years. I just assumed that the mapper forgot to turn it back on but might be because its faulty then!
 
Ill have a look at the voltage readings next time just to make sure it is knackered - I assume it should ALWAYS have a voltage?

They have a voltage of either close to 1v or close to 0v - it\'s only around the lambda=1 where it suddenly changes.
 
This gives a bit of info :  http://www.picoauto.com/applications/lambda-sensor.html
Title: Lambda Sensor
Post by: Ricco_04 on June 17, 2012, 06:23:39 PM
Cheers again - having a read now :)