Here\'s a new one on me which I don\'t know if you guys have discussed before.
Apparently from 1 Jan 2012 it will be a new requirement in the MoT test for :
QuoteA catalytic convertor fitted as original equipment but missing will be a reason for failure.
(source (http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html))
In other words you don\'t just have to pass the emissions test but you must also have the cat in place to do so.
This means all of you who have ripped out your cats will now fail the MoT test (even
if the emissions figures are within limits). :censored:
But don\'t panic, on closer reading of the actual manual (see section 7.1 (http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf)) this is only for cars which are subject to a cat test - so only those first used on or after 1 August 1992. Mind you that still stuffs all those modded FDs :p :Giggle
1989 S5 Turbo Winner :Giggle
Quote from: no_boingers;802779Mind you that still stuffs all those modded FDs :p :Giggle
only if they are UK spec FDs or post 95
Grey Imported FDs 92-95 are only subjected to the non-cat test
Quote from: BlitzBoy;802782Grey Imported FDs 92-95 are only subjected to the non-cat test
Interesting... can you quote a source for that please?
K reg FDs and any other K reg cars aren\'t included in the cat test as it was always a grey area for garages to decide what year it was made.
Simple solution is go to your mates garage who will pass it but you have to admit to taking the cat off after it has had an mot if you get your car inspected by the boys in blue.
Quote from: B.Martin;8027801989 S5 Turbo Winner :Giggle
You may not need the cat to pass but all of that rust dropping off FCs will fail the mot straight away;) hahahaha joking just joking.
Quote from: no_boingers;802785Interesting... can you quote a source for that please?
Do a search on here been posted a few times, some one posted up the info from the VOSA MOT manual, plus I confirmed this with Sicknote years ago who owns a MOT garage
Quote from: BlitzBoy;802782Grey Imported FDs 92-95 are only subjected to the non-cat test
I assume you are claiming exemption under section 7.3 ?
QuoteA personal import must be tested according to its date of first use. The only exemption to this is if the vehicle owner can present to the tester at time of test a letter from the vehicle manufacturer stating that the particular engine as originally installed could not meet the equivalent British emission standards.
If this is the case, then test to the next lower emission standard.
Seriously? FDs couldn\'t meet the cat emission test?! :2eek Yet FCs with cats could. Methinks someone somewhere has been telling porkies... ;)
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;802787You may not need the cat to pass but all of that rust dropping off FCs will fail the mot straight away;) hahahaha joking just joking.
I\'m lucky, my car is pretty damn rust free actually ;)
Quote from: no_boingers;802789I assume you are claiming exemption under section 7.3 ?
Ah no, it seems you are claiming exemption from the cat test on the basis that it will fail the BET test and it\'s not listed in the VOSA database (assuming it doesn\'t have a VDS code of FD13B2).
That\'s fine w.r.t. the emissions test, but I think you are on very thin ice if you try and claim that will get you exemption from the new requirement to actually have a cat present.
Note the wording (my highlighting)
QuoteOn vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter.
In this respect you *do* qualify for a full cat emissions test - it is merely part of the flowchart for that test that your emissions are actually tested to non-cat levels (s.7.3 pg.9).
You are banking on (mis-)interpretation of the wording to give you a loophole in the draft VOSA manual. Hmm, I can see tears at bedtime...
(note: if it
passes the BET test then there is NO exemption from the cat test (since you do not get to that point in the flowchart!), although I guess passing the BET test is unlikely without a cat in the first place!)
Quote from: BlitzBoy;802782only if they are UK spec FDs or post 95
Grey Imported FDs 92-95 are only subjected to the non-cat test
Winnnerrrrrr :wiggle
Quote from: no_boingers;802794Hmm, I can see tears at bedtime...
I doubt it no tears from me LOL it will still pass next next year :D
Plus I can change map on the ecu to be as lean as feck for the MOT
:) I\'m not talking \'bout emissions, I\'m talking about the presence of a cat. You gonna draw one on the floorpan? :D
Quote from: no_boingers;802801:) I\'m not talking \'bout emissions, I\'m talking about the presence of a cat. You gonna draw one on the floorpan? :D
lmao
mlts
Just say the midpipe silencer is the cat ! Without taking it to bits how would you really know as the tester ?
Shaun
Quote from: no_boingers;802801:) I\'m not talking \'bout emissions, I\'m talking about the presence of a cat. You gonna draw one on the floorpan? :D
the cars are grey imports therefore there is nothing on the database proving/saying they were fitted with cats from the factory as original equipment.
Its one of the reasons why I chose an FC, its a 91 so no real issues with emissions etc, mine hasn\'t had a cat for over a decade! Didn\'t have one when I bought it either, emissions are 0.18% CO, so can pass a cat test!
Cat reinstalled
(http://www.bedug.com/pics/cat_eating_turbo.jpg)
yes its true about needing an mot for the test if 1 was fitted as oe equipment but its not getting implemented until later on in the year, it is going to be an advisory item to allow testers to get used to the idea from jan.
there is another new rule coming in which sucks, see if you have a rubber boot covering a ball joint say as on a track rod end if its split its an mot fail even if there is no play......... how rubbish is that!
Emissions tests - Exhaust - from dft.gov site:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/In%20Service%20Exhaust%20Emission%20Standards%20-%2016th%20Edition.pdf
See this section:
Some passenger cars first used during the [/FONT]“transition†[/FONT]period (i.e. 1 August 1992 to 1
August 1995) and some light goods vehicles and large passenger cars first used on
or after 1 August 1994 were not required to be manufactured to the EC standards
requiring advanced emissions control systems to be fitted. For these vehicles the
non-catalyst test will be applied. Owners of vehicles which were first used during this
transition period, are advised to check the entries in the Annex to this booklet or
contact the vehicle manufacturer
Page 58 is quite interesting though ;)
[/FONT]
Quote from: m1tch;802874Its one of the reasons why I chose an FC, its a 91 so no real issues with emissions etc, mine hasn\'t had a cat for over a decade! Didn\'t have one when I bought it either, emissions are 0.18% CO, so can pass a cat test!
Cat reinstalled
(http://www.bedug.com/pics/cat_eating_turbo.jpg)
lol:Giggle
Its why you get quite a bit of power back when you decat the exhaust system, thats quite a restriction!
i actually caught my cat the other day with his head inside the exhaust of my rx7
ive never seen in an OEM FC exhaust in real life yet, seen a video of what one looks and sounds like on youtube lol my FC with just the air pump can pass the cat emissions test :)
Quote from: Prof;802883Page 58 is quite interesting though ;)
Exactly. If your vin number contains FD13B2 then you
are subject to a cat emissions test (and therefore have to have a cat present post 1/1/12).
You almost sound happy that you think all FD\'s will fail the MOT :confused:
Adam
noooo, don\'t want that at all :( Just want to give people a heads up before their cars start getting VT30 notices, and they start crying about how they didn\'t know about it or "my car\'s exempt cos I think it is" etc.
Just \'cos you\'ve got away without a cat emissions test in the past I think you should be concerned about this new EU legislation and whether it will be so easy to get away without actually having a cat fitted (or something that looks like a cat ;) ). I foresee a lot of exhaust swapping at MoT time coming up... ;)
Mind you, FCs ARE better than FDs :duck:
(But then I also think S2 FBs are better than FCs!)
i am an mot tester and i think all these new rules are a crock os :censored::censored::censored::censored:! sorry for being explicit but i need to be just to emphasis how i trully feel about it!
Totally agree with you wolfie1. All it\'s going to do it whack the price of getting a ticket even higher, which is even more galling when all my cars are over 20 years old and all this new sh*t isn\'t even fitted, yet I still have to pay the higher price.
Just one more way that the govt are surreptitiously getting all cars over 10 y.o. off the road and forcing us to buy new sh*te.
there is talk of brand new cars first mot after 4 years then every second year for its mot after that and vosa are arguing that will be dangerous, well i reckon with this extremely tight legislation will just push the government to introduce the 4,2,2 testing, the exact thing vosa doesnt want to happen
My electric secondary air pump is on the way to me :)
I\'ll just keep my stock exhaust and then simply say \'there is a custom system on the car now, of you want to go through the ball ache off fitting the stock system for the test, then re-fitting the other system after... That\'s up to you!\'
9/10 garages will probably just pass it to saw the hassle.
You have a stock system? I didn\'t think there were any left lol
Quote from: B.Martin;803140I\'ll just keep my stock exhaust and then simply say \'there is a custom system on the car now, of you want to go through the ball ache off fitting the stock system for the test, then re-fitting the other system after... That\'s up to you!\'
9/10 garages will probably just pass it to saw the hassle.
no they would do 3 things,
1- what you suggest
2- refuse to test
3-(this is the most likely 1) fail your car on the emissions and charge you to fit the other system
it sucks but unless your friends with a garage thats the choices
Yeah option 3 would probably happen but without them actually changing it lol!
Quote from: no_boingers;802922Exactly. If your vin number contains FD13B2 then you are subject to a cat emissions test (and therefore have to have a cat present post 1/1/12).
But no jap import FDs have that format VIN number. Only the UK spec ones do.
Its a bit odd that this info was posted in the 2nd gen part of the forum considering its only the UK spec FDs that are going to have issues - which again it why I chose an FC lol although it can easily pass a cat test on emissions :)
And that FC\'s are über cool ;)
Quote from: efiniste;803148But no jap import FDs have that format VIN number. Only the UK spec ones do.
Uh huh... so what\'s your point? "I\'m alright Jack \'cos mine\'s an import :p "?
Quote from: m1tch;803149Its a bit odd that this info was posted in the 2nd gen part of the forum considering its only the UK spec FDs that are going to have issues
I posted it here because I\'ve got an FC and I only read the FC forum :)
I posted for the benefit of other FC owners who might be concerned on first reading of the change that we are going to be affected - turns out we are ok. It then morphed into a discussion about whether it will affect FDs or not. :D
Quote from: wolfie1;803130there is talk of brand new cars first mot after 4 years then every second year for its mot after that and vosa are arguing that will be dangerous, well i reckon with this extremely tight legislation will just push the government to introduce the 4,2,2 testing, the exact thing vosa doesnt want to happen
That sound extremely dangerous. I seriously wonder just how many of brand new cars are remotely legal on the headlight requirement (unless they have raised the beam level). I struggle to drive round now without getting blinded by every tom, dick and harry.
Shaun
Quote from: no_boingers;803155Uh huh... so what\'s your point? "I\'m alright Jack \'cos mine\'s an import :p "?
Pretty much, yeah. Along with the vast majority of FDs in the country. I\'d guess there\'s way less than 100 UK spec FDs left on our roads.
Quote from: efiniste;803163Pretty much, yeah. Along with the vast majority of FDs in the country. I\'d guess there\'s way less than 100 UK spec FDs left on our roads.
they only sold 124 in the uk anyway so i doubt theres more than 20 left.
Quote from: shaunwil;803158That sound extremely dangerous. I seriously wonder just how many of brand new cars are remotely legal on the headlight requirement (unless they have raised the beam level). I struggle to drive round now without getting blinded by every tom, dick and harry.
Shaun
most cars when they come to their first test need the headlights adjusted! most people are very good at keeping on top of the maintanance but there is also them that dont bother and when there car comes round to the mot its an absoulute death trap and these are the people which cause the problem and another reason why insurance goes up year on year!
Well unless I am mistaken it will affect the FC as they also had a cat fitted as standard (2 if you are UK spec.) Isn\'t this section about the presence of a cat not about what the emissions are??
Of course, if you get around it by being an import then fair play to you :)
True but fortunately section 7.1 of the testers manual states the check for the presence of a cat is only for cars which are subject to a cat emissions test - since all the FCs (UK or import) are exempt from a cat test (because first used before 1st Aug 1992) we don\'t have to have a cat fitted (whether there was one OE or not) :)
Course the draft manual could change before 1st Jan :(
I would love to find out how much a new cat/precat costs from Mazda as an OEM item lol although saying that as its over 10 years manufacturers don\'t have to supply them anymore, I know that a single brake hose cost £103 from mazda, hate to think what a cat would cost lol
The OEM down pipe for a T2 was around £1k including VAT when I enquired a Whites about 8 years ago. Can\'t imagine the price has gotten any more competitive since then...
At the end of the day the GOVT is going to eventually legislate old and modified cars off of the road, or make road use of them extremely difficult :(
As far as I know most stock FD\'s (post CAT reg) can\'t pass the emissions test anyway... most places just put them through on a two gas...
I priced up a new cat from mazda a few year back and it was 400odd god knows on a pre cat dp.
We should all be thankfull we have such arse\'s incharge of our transport department.
Wait...