Hi Guys,
Since I am building a new manifold, I am having wiered ideas going through my mind. :Viking
Thinking of installing two Greddy T88 34ds on my 20b, what do you guys think?
Or
Shall I just stick with my commitment to buy BW S595 OR S475?;)
I like to do things once, hence I dont cut corners and go for the best part available!
If everything goes well, I would like to have a bit of fun next year
Any info is appreciated.
Mir
You would be ebtter off with two slightly smaller turbo\'s than the T88 or one bigger one I think.
perhaps twin GT4088s or a single GT42?
Don\'t forget if you go to twins you will have other fabrication to do for your intercooler inlets.
Keep it simple comes to mind for me, one turbo, GT42 maybe. Or go for the biggest size on the s400 series in BW range. The s500 series are huge.
S475 job done, it will mash you into the seat when tuned up. It will make mincemeat of third gear in a stock box, best get some quaife internals in there.
Have you looked at any spec sheets of the BW turbos?
Quote from: BlitzBoy;801738S475 job done, it will mash you into the seat when tuned up. It will make mincemeat of third gear in a stock box, best get some quaife internals in there.
Thats exactly I am after Blitzen loll owe you a drink next I see you :guinness
Mir
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;801737Don\'t forget if you go to twins you will have other fabrication to do for your intercooler inlets.
Keep it simple comes to mind for me, one turbo, GT42 maybe. Or go for the biggest size on the s400 series in BW range. The s500 series are huge.
Grant the metal fabricator I have is more than competent to do the job.
I just want to build something which does not let me down in future. Now the car is worked on and according to Carl Hayward\'s theory "its an oppurtunity for further development" I am committed to develop it more.
I want something really awesome so that the piston rings don\'t fry out :Hammer:D:D:evillaugh:evillaugh and I run a fast quater mile too:Party. I am hoping for low 9s on a street set up without choping or cutting anything off.:bandit
Mir
Gearbox wise, Pip has already looked into it. He is trying to find a guy who can modify the bell house and etc etc for us. "That" gearbox is more than capable to handle up to 800RWHP.
ohh!! I am preparing for next year.
Mir
Quote from: BlitzBoy;801738S475 job done, it will mash you into the seat when tuned up. It will make mincemeat of third gear in a stock box, best get some quaife internals in there.
Blitz, you meant S475 with T6 Flang isn\'t?:Thumbs-up
Mir
GT60 is shiny :rollin
(http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/473/bigturbo1ck4.jpg)
Quote from: Mir;801751Blitz, you meant S475 with T6 Flang isn\'t?:Thumbs-up
Mir
yip defo T6 Flange
So S475, T6 Flang and 4 inch straight through exhaust pipe -Job Done
One thing is out of the way now.
Cheers Blitz :)
Mir
Wing exit pipe or side exit pipe? :D
Quote from: m1tch;801758Wing exit pipe or side exit pipe? :D
Nah Mate, conventional stance more a less :rollin:rollin
I would go 5 inch down pipe into 4 inch exhaust system on a 20B
This is going to be just a bit quick me thinks
Quote from: BlitzBoy;801767I would go 5 inch down pipe into 4 inch exhaust system on a 20B
Blitz, I am listening.....go on, keep explaining?????? Need a bit more info please......
dont stop there :Nono!
So you were saying ?????
Advantages and disadvantages please?
Mir
simple its a big turbo, you have 3 rotors instead of two , therefore more exhaust volume will be generated hence more chance of back pressure, going bigger on the diameter on the downpipe will help top end power
Quote from: BlitzBoy;801775simple its a big turbo, you have 3 rotors instead of two , therefore more exhaust volume will be generated hence more chance of back pressure, going bigger on the diameter on the downpipe will help top end power
Umm, so this will give me a better top end, however; from a street racing point of view, this set up is not ideal isn\'t?
Mir
yes it is ideal, the less back pressure the better on a turbo car , its not NA where you need back pressure. Back pressure hurts spool as well as choking top end.
Thanks for the input Blitzen. I should be speaking with a fabricator soon.
Cheers
Mir
Quote from: BlitzBoy;801778yes it is ideal, the less back pressure the better on a turbo car , its not NA where you need back pressure. Back pressure hurts spool as well as choking top end.
With the exception of a rotary engine where back pressure is the enemy for both turbo and N/A but more so on N/A for squeezing every pony you can out of the motor.
I see no back pressure here!
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/m1tch_2006/DSC00486.jpg)
I see no apex seals still inside the engine very soon!
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/m1tch_2006/DSC00485.jpg)
Nitrous for spooling huge turbo??
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;801834Nitrous for spooling huge turbo??
Im guessing so :) also in the first photo you see why I have fitted FD rims to my FC, I don\'t seem to need 12" rear wheels to get enough traction for power lol
Quote from: m1tch;801838Im guessing so :) also in the first photo you see why I have fitted FD rims to my FC, I don\'t seem to need 12" rear wheels to get enough traction for power lol
I also have FD wheels for my rx4:Thumbsup!:2eek:yes:yes
Syed i hav emailed AET turbos to get some spec sheets for you on the s475, im sure they can be found online though. i have asked for what size exhaust housings they do etc
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;801839I also have FD wheels for my rx4:Thumbsup!:2eek:yes:yes
:D I think we win more :D you fitted a cut down turbo II bonnet to it? :)
Quote from: m1tch;801843:D I think we win more :D you fitted a cut down turbo II bonnet to it? :)
Nope just the heavy arsed rx4 bonnet. I need to find a light weight one as it is too heavy.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;801842Syed i hav emailed AET turbos to get some spec sheets for you on the s475, im sure they can be found online though. i have asked for what size exhaust housings they do etc
Grant I can\'t thank you enough cheers mate. :Thumbs-up. This will be very helpful. The max size I have seen is 1.15 to 1.25 A.R with T6 flange lollll
Chris might still have his GT42?
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73342&highlight=gt42
Ive seen photos of its an it looks amazing!
http://www.himni-racing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_288&products_id=1937&zenid=iru1ap2dduuhcovd6t64g01jm4
Blitz beat me too it. I wonder what the shipping and import duties will add up to along with the tax? Plus delivery. If you look into the overall price Syed I will ring the guys up here in the uk and see what their price is for it. Let me know which size rear housing you would want, and if you want a V band outlet on the rear and I will get back to you.
Cheers for the link blitz and M1tch. Grant, I am after the top stuff, hence I am after 1.15 A.R. I never had an experience with the V band TBH, so need to read about it. According to my underdevelop internet experience, I think, V band is better! I need to read about this further really!
So shoot me with any ideas you have mate.
Cheers
Mir
Blitz, can you can list somethings up for me please. I mean, as mentioned before, I dont want to buy things twice, just want to invest once in a right product. Hence, can you list some particulars up for me here i.e.
BW 475, 480 or 595
T6 FLANG
1.15 OR 1.25 Rear Housing
5 inches down pipe and 4 inches thereafter
etc etc!!
Cheers
Mir
Quote from: Mir;801913Cheers for the link blitz and M1tch. Grant, I am after the top stuff, hence I am after 1.15 A.R. I never had an experience with the V band TBH, so need to read about it. According to my underdevelop internet experience, I think, V band is better! I need to read about this further really!
So shoot me with any ideas you have mate.
Cheers
Mir
A v band in the exhaust means you can detach the down pipe by undoing one nut. Makes for changing things and accessing other stuff more simple.
What\'s your email? I think I have it stored in my iPhone but just want to check. I have just got an email back from AET so I will forward it on too you, I will also post up the sheets here so people can see how good this turbo is.
Hey dude,
considering Pip has built the engine and will be mapping the car as well I suppose, why don\'t you ask him his opinion on what works? I hear he has a few years worth of experience on these spinny dorito voodoo powered engines :) ;)
Quote from: Mir;801914Blitz, can you can list somethings up for me please. I mean, as mentioned before, I dont want to buy things twice, just want to invest once in a right product. Hence, can you list some particulars up for me here i.e.
BW 475, 480 or 595
T6 FLANG
1.15 OR 1.25 Rear Housing
5 inches down pipe and 4 inches thereafter
etc etc!!
Cheers
Mir
Cheers Grant, owe you a ride in my car, after it is sorted ;)
email is gillanis@hotmail.com (gillanis@hotmail.com)
Mir
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/1bd32508.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/878ca92d.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/8c3dc2ef.jpg)
John Bradshaw runs 2 of these turbos on his 6 second 350Z
Quote from: Mir;801918Cheers Grant, owe you a ride in my car, after it is sorted ;)
email is gillanis@hotmail.com (gillanis@hotmail.com)
Mir
Email sent. Give them a ring and I\'m sure they will advise you better than I can. And BTW the owner of AET has been over to PAC performances domain, seen their worlds fastest rotary and even met the main man at PAC at his BBQ in australia, so he does like rotaries just a little bit.
Quote from: memski;801917Hey dude,
considering Pip has built the engine and will be mapping the car as well I suppose, why don\'t you ask him his opinion on what works? I hear he has a few years worth of experience on these spinny dorito voodoo powered engines :) ;)
Yup you are right Memski, but the relationship I developed with Pip is unique loll, I dont talk to him simply by picking up the phone and ringing him. We have a unique understanding and by this I mean, I will ring him and tell him that Pip, I need to speak with you. He would tell me that he will ring me after 3 days/3 hours etc etc. Once, we start talking, we talk for good few minutes. He always encourages me to do research myself and then give him feed back with what I think. He retains the final say, but I like to learn and he does not mind that at all.:Ladys-man
I would say the same about Carl Hayward. He is always very helpful and a very professional person in my eyes. He is more a less the same.
So here on the forum, I like to hear from people like yourself, Blitz, Rob, Jaydee, Grant, Carl, ED and others who are very professional and know their stuff.
So there are loads of reasons as to why I ask questions on the forum, its more to do with learning from peoples experience.
I appreciate the question thou. :Santa
Mir
Will a 5" downpipe fit past the steering column etc, I know that some high power AE86s convert to LHD to allow for more space on the exhaust side etc :)
Quote from: m1tch;801929Will a 5" downpipe fit past the steering column etc, I know that some high power AE86s convert to LHD to allow for more space on the exhaust side etc :)
Luckily, we have pushed the engine back, hence, if I upload the pic, you would see that I would easily have a space available for not only 5inches but 6 inches too. :3gears-lh
Thats the biggest advantage I have seen of pushing the engine backwards.
Mir
I think go for 2 big turbos, looks far more unique, will spool better and be perfect for a weapon like yours!
Quote from: mjwebb48;801971I think go for 2 big turbos, looks far more unique, will spool better and be perfect for a weapon like yours!
Witness like this I would say you have been speaking to Ross or this is Ross using matts account?? Hmmm.
Very non constructive advise IMO.
Stage the turbos? :D
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/paulvolk/twinturbo_large.jpg)(http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/16502303+w750+st0/0304_turp_02_z+turbo_charging_strategies+turbo.jpg)
Quote from: mjwebb48;801971I think go for 2 big turbos, looks far more unique, will spool better and be perfect for a weapon like yours!
Thanks for the advice mate. Can you explain the pros and cons as the tittle suggests please :Thumbs-up
Mir
Syed, you have seen this dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjsoSMBr_Mw
Twins for the win, try asking on rx7 club as there is alot experience in the race and drag section, call Ross he will also know.
People are seeking expert help from aus and portaricians,
Looking for big power, Chris car is running portarician
Stylee an aus Stylee ;)
Gabby got his guns out, email him dude,
Periperhal ported single turbo FC is fine for me :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL6N5A2KbqU
Or just run 2 massive turbos through the bonnet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=iPLSkzgPs80
Quote from: m1tch;802025Periperhal ported single turbo FC is fine for me :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL6N5A2KbqU
Or just run 2 massive turbos through the bonnet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=iPLSkzgPs80
That is sooooooo last year:spank
Twin t51 for the win lol
T88-34D staged into the TA45? :D
Quote from: Mir;802008Thanks for the advice mate. Can you explain the pros and cons as the tittle suggests please :Thumbs-up
Mir
Well I suppose the pros are the better spooling, more unique, look wild in the engine space. Cons are harder to make I suppose, but it doesnt seem as that is a problem as you already have a 20b in there! I only have about 450hp and mine is fast enough, although a few more ponies would always be nice.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;801975Witness like this I would say you have been speaking to Ross or this is Ross using matts account?? Hmmm.
Very non constructive advise IMO.
:3Confused Not constructive advice? Not sure what your angle is here buddy, but I was just putting my 2ps in.
Quote from: mjwebb48;802067:3Confused Not constructive advice? Not sure what your angle is here buddy, but I was just putting my 2ps in.
2 big turbos better than 1 big one at spooling up?
So let\'s see, a 3 into 1 manifold to a t88-34D is going to spool worse than a 3 into 2 manifold with 2x t88-34D\'s? I don\'t think so.
3 exhaust pulses on one turbo is going to spool that turbo faster than 1 and a half exhaust pulses.
And if 2 turbos, that flowed the same as the t88 combined with half the exhaust flow, which would spool up quicker?
U
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;8020842 big turbos better than 1 big one at spooling up?
So let\'s see, a 3 into 1 manifold to a t88-34D is going to spool worse than a 3 into 2 manifold with 2x t88-34D\'s? I don\'t think so.
3 exhaust pulses on one turbo is going to spool that turbo faster than 1 and a half exhaust pulses.
Im thinking probably having 2 x GT4088s would spool earlier than a larger turbo like a GT42, kinda like the same as fitting a twin exhaust system vs a larger single system (there is more flow going through 2 x 2.5" smaller pipes than 1 x 3" larger pipe)
Quote from: JayDee;802085And if 2 turbos, that flowed the same as the t88 combined with half the exhaust flow, which would spool up quicker?
U
Well it depends on a lot of things doesn\'t it?
If a t88, for example, flow 100lbs/min that does not necesarily mean that 2 50lb/min turbos are going to flow the same. Volume and air density will be different.
Things like exhaust side would also dictate how fast a turbo spools up. 2 x T88s with 1.19 A/R will not spool up as fast as one t88 with a 1.19 A/R on the same engine.
Then there\'s porting. That changes it all again. The overlap a bridge gives will help spool turbos better, but Mirs on a street port so I would say his amount of overlap is slightly less than a full bridge?
Then there is also inlet manifold lengths/ design.
You know these things better than me anyway Jay, hence why you have a custom exhaust manifold and inlet manifold and a single turbo, not twins on James\'s car. ;) :D BTW when are you turning the boost up to 3bar?
Need to edit my post. 2 turbos giving the same equivalent lb/min air flow isn\'t necesarily going to yield the same HP.
I have never tested it, but from people I know with skyline and supra, they notice no difference in spool, with 2 turbos, obviously if changing intake etc is not a fair comparison.
3 bar I don\'t know about that, it should be back on the dyno in the new year, with some Xmas presents lol
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;802095Need to edit my post. 2 turbos giving the same equivalent lb/min air flow isn\'t necesarily going to yield the same HP.
Hi Guys
Thanks for the input. Spoke with pip today for over half an hour and so. We discussed numerous options and at the end, we came to the conclusion that, A single turbo is more suitable than a Twin turbo set up. We considered many things in reaching to this conclusion and all the things were dependant on the "reliability" aspect. Pip suggested that, if I want a reliable engine, then single is alot better solely because, there is less room for something to go wrong.
I told him about the 475 and 595 Turbos and he sid he will get back to me on this.
So this is so far I/we got to. I will be posting more updates as the time/project progresses further.
Cheers
Mir
I guess keeping it simple is the best plan, its one of the reasons why I have an FC, single turbo as standard, whereas the FD always seems to have issues with its boost solinoid for the secondary turbo etc and its a bit more complicated to sort out.
did you email him the spec sheets i sent you? that will help him on deciding what is best for you.
also have you rang the guys at AET?
Quote from: Mir;802125Hi Guys
Thanks for the input. Spoke with pip today for over half an hour and so. We discussed numerous options and at the end, we came to the conclusion that, A single turbo is more suitable than a Twin turbo set up. We considered many things in reaching to this conclusion and all the things were dependant on the "reliability" aspect. Pip suggested that, if I want a reliable engine, then single is alot better solely because, there is less room for something to go wrong.
I told him about the 475 and 595 Turbos and he sid he will get back to me on this.
So this is so far I/we got to. I will be posting more updates as the time/project progresses further.
Cheers
Mir
Grant sorry was really busy with seminars!! I will do this tomorrow! Nah I have not rang them as I was way too busy :(! I will do this tomorrow!
Cheers
Quote from: m1tch;802004Stage the turbos? :D
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/paulvolk/twinturbo_large.jpg)(http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/16502303+w750+st0/0304_turp_02_z+turbo_charging_strategies+turbo.jpg)
does really make a huge difference and could you run this on a rotary safely? cause that looks awesome!
The boost will be too high as the first turbo say goes from 0psi to 14psi, the 2nd turbo then takes the 14psi and ups it to say 28psi, good for high boost, but bad due to the lack of intake charge cooling between the turbos, ie the second turbo is compressing already very hot air from the first turbo, its mainly used on tractor pulling rigs that run massive boost or large diesel trucks.
Quote from: wolfie1;802188does really make a huge difference and could you run this on a rotary safely? cause that looks awesome!
not really, if thats what i think it is, a compound turbo setup, it will be producing huge amounts of boost.
the first turbo compresses the incoming ambient air, then the second turbo compresses the air again.
there is a thread on rx7 club where someone is building a twin setup, but using a supercharger, for the low rpm range, which then switches over to a turbo for the mid to upper rev ranges by means of some magic gubbins in the pipe work, the super charger is small and will work really responsively in the low rpms but will run out of puff as the engine gets going. i think the supercharger gets turned off soemhow after point
x is reached and the turbo takes over. so the air isnt getting compressed twice like in the setup above.
i may be wrong though.:(
compound turbo charging is normally found on diesel engines or compound supercharging is found on huge compressors.
thanks for the explanation
Mir i maybe missing something here but why are you looking to change your set up again when from what i can remember you only ran the turbo you had at 0.7 bar. Why not get the boost turned up on that, sort the mapping and fueling and then you car will be ridiculously fast.
Adam
Quote from: Ada7;802291Mir i maybe missing something here but why are you looking to change your set up again when from what i can remember you only ran the turbo you had at 0.7 bar. Why not get the boost turned up on that, sort the mapping and fueling and then you car will be ridiculously fast.
Adam
You are right Adam, but I am suffering from a bug called "I cant be satisfied" lolll I would have done so, but it would have not availed me anything, because, the manifold was too thin for the power level I was after.
I just couldn\'t justify going to WGT (200 Miles each side) twice, because according to the famous tuners, I was just waiting for the manifold to blow up. Hence, I decided that, I would just start a fresh, sell the turbo set up, build a new manifold with T6 flange and sort it out once and for all (as if this is ever gonna happen:Hammer).
I can see your point, but then I was just thinking what would be the best bet, knowing that its winter now, I decided to take a dip:Thumbs-up
Cheers Mate
Mir
How did the manifold look once you took it off?
Quote from: Mir;802343You are right Adam, but I am suffering from a bug called "I cant be satisfied" lolll I would have done so, but it would have not availed me anything, because, the manifold was too thin for the power level I was after.
I just couldn\'t justify going to WGT (200 Miles each side) twice, because according to the famous tuners, I was just waiting for the manifold to blow up. Hence, I decided that, I would just start a fresh, sell the turbo set up, build a new manifold with T6 flange and sort it out once and for all (as if this is ever gonna happen:Hammer).
I can see your point, but then I was just thinking what would be the best bet, knowing that its winter now, I decided to take a dip:Thumbs-up
Cheers Mate
Mir
Quote from: JayDee;802347How did the manifold look once you took it off?
Jay, it looked cooked!!!!! You were right what you said the other day when I came over to see you;)
In my opinion, the manifold was not ready for the action!:Viking
I have taken several photos of it just for record purposes.
Mir
Post them up. What was the Mani made out of? What are you making the new mani out of?
Any particular reason for choosing a t6 over a t4?
Grant the pics are embarrasing, so cant do that lolll. T6 as advised by many and I can see a good reason behind it unless you can do me a comparison of T4 and T6? Initially, I was going with titanium, but the person who was going to work on it is off sick for quite sometime. So, I went to someone else and he said he cant do titanium, hence, I am thinking to go back to cast iron or choose something better!
The car is off road and she will be on road arround May or April next year. Big plans for the car at the moment.
Do you want a to do list? ;)
Mir
Titanium?! That would be well expensive.
Quote from: Mir;802408Do you want a to do list? ;)
Mir
Come on then whats on the list?
Come on then? Shopping list.
Loll Big ED, indeed my list is a lot smaller than yours, becuase you are building a pure Strong and Fast Machine.
Not much, just the following,
Aeromotive Eliminator fuel pump with two Filters and Up rated Fuel pressure Regulator along side with Fuel Pump Regulator
BW S475 or S 595 Turbo
5 inches Down Pipe and 4 Inches thereafter
Top Secrete GearBox lollll
Cobra Diff with Justin Samberg Cradle
Different Back end
Tial 60mm Wastegate
Drag Tryres
Reinforced Chasis- already bought RE Bridge Bar, one of the best investment I have ever done on this car!
The parts alone are over 15K, so I "think" my car will be ready next year sometime, thats if its not sold by then :). Because, I am not going to stop developing it just because I am selling it, rather, I will develop it and if someone comes with the right money, I will sell it to him/her
Mir