Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: 123tom123tom on December 01, 2011, 06:51:39 PM

Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 01, 2011, 06:51:39 PM
car spec:
1993 rx7 twin turbo
twin filters relocated in bumper
full decat exhaust (super drager)
mines ecu
greddy boost meter and gauge
(maybe not sure but was told) Walbro 255 pump
 
that is it as far as I\'m aware!!
 
First off hello everybody,
 
I bought a mazda rx7 the other day as a spare of the moment thing. I love the car the way it looks and drives, (kind of).....
 
I will tell you the problems that it has:
 
- there seems to be a bad earth on the car when you put everything on, like the radio, heater fans and lights the car runs lumpy at idle, jumps between 650 and 800 rpm. Soon as you turn everything of it runs quite steady at about 750rpm.
 
- it seems to be using a little bit of water, not 100% on that yet?
 
- BLUE SMOKE :( some times it isn\'t there but most of the time it is, seems to be worse when warm, notice it more when de-accelerating.
 
- last problem for now!!! the car does not like high rpm whilst under load?, it will rev on the spot.... but 4k and above on boost the car sputters and back fires like crazy, very loud and judders??
 
If it helps I am a mechanically minded so I can get my hands dirty :Tongue1
 
 
Thanks in advance (please go easy on me I am new :Thumbs-up )
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: rising son on December 01, 2011, 07:05:32 PM
hi mate , new to these cars myself. but for problem 1 possible a grounding/earth kit could help you out.
as for the last problem, maybe overboosting and hitting fuel cut, or plugs missing under load, or possible even a fuel pump issue.., im sure somebody with a bit more experience will help you shortly
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 01, 2011, 07:13:33 PM
Quote from: rising son;800878hi mate , new to these cars myself. but for problem 1 possible a grounding/earth kit could help you out.
as for the last problem, maybe overboosting and hitting fuel cut, or plugs missing under load, or possible even a fuel pump issue.., im sure somebody with a bit more experience will help you shortly

 
hi there thanks  for the info, I was thinking very similar on the last issue, fuel related or fuel cut??? can any one tel me when fuel cut kicks in on these also it has aftermarket ecu thought they would have mapped it out??? it is currently hitting about 1 bar of boost but drops quite a lot as the second turbo tries to come on line... I say try because it missfires that badly and stutter/splutters it cant boost really?
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 01, 2011, 08:43:39 PM
They could be minor issues so hopefully they can be easily fixed.

On the water front check nothing is actually leaking. The waterpump will leak to warn you the bearing is on the way out. Are you seeing any overheating issues (such as the fans kicking in a lot ?) If you can\'t find a leak then it could be more major. Do a search for the champagne test. This will tell you how to check the engine for a waterseal failure.

On the oil front it could be the bearing in the turbo is on its way out. 2nd hand turbo packs do turn up and its a rather fun job to swap over.

The spluttering can be caused by the vacuum lines splitting and the one way valves degrading. Do a search for rats nest to see more details.

On a grounding note just check all the grounding points are clean in the engine bay. The idle rpm does change when you put electrical stuff on and it depends on what is on the piggy back chip ecu has been programmed to.

Hope this helps !

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 02, 2011, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;800895They could be minor issues so hopefully they can be easily fixed.
 
On the water front check nothing is actually leaking. The waterpump will leak to warn you the bearing is on the way out. Are you seeing any overheating issues (such as the fans kicking in a lot ?)
 
----fans arent kicking in a lot only when stood in traffic as you would want them to, no over heating at all? there seem to be water on the slam panel area every time I open the bonnet think it is coolant but cant locate where it comes from-----
 
If you can\'t find a leak then it could be more major. Do a search for the champagne test. This will tell you how to check the engine for a waterseal failure.
 
On the oil front it could be the bearing in the turbo is on its way out. 2nd hand turbo packs do turn up and its a rather fun job to swap over.
 
-----This is the route I think I am going down, the over fueling/back firing etc at higher revs from 4000 rpm upwards is when the second turbo should be online.... I think it is failing causing the above to happen i.e causing the car to run rich because the air isn\'t there from the turbo???? thats my theory------
 
The spluttering can be caused by the vacuum lines splitting and the one way valves degrading. Do a search for rats nest to see more details.
 
------ any particular pipes/valves i should be looking for(more to do with second turbo I surpose)-----
 
On a grounding note just check all the grounding points are clean in the engine bay. The idle rpm does change when you put electrical stuff on and it depends on what is on the piggy back chip ecu has been programmed to.
 
-----It has complete stand alone MINES ecu on the car?? (maybe a remap is needed)----
 
 
Hope this helps !
 
thank you again kind regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: rx7boy on December 02, 2011, 08:09:28 PM
Coolant in slam panel area would indicate that the AST (air separation tank) has a split

The mines ECU cannot be mapped here in the UK, that i am aware of anyway.

Get a ground kit anyway even if the stock points are ok (ebay)

Boost wise, check all your intercooler lines are tight and split free. If they are all ok then you need to start looking into the vac/pressure solenoid system under the inlet plenum, commonly known as the rats nest. Search here for the diagram, but you might find it a ball ache so better to take to a specialist.

I would also consider getting a different ecu, the mines one will be mapped to Jap fuel 102 octane and during these colds months you might find the car will run lean and pop due to pre-ignition.

Plug and play ecu\'s are Apexi pfc or Link plug in units
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 03, 2011, 09:32:46 AM
Quote from: rx7boy;801009Coolant in slam panel area would indicate that the AST (air separation tank) has a split
 
The mines ECU cannot be mapped here in the UK, that i am aware of anyway.
 
Get a ground kit anyway even if the stock points are ok (ebay)
 
Boost wise, check all your intercooler lines are tight and split free. If they are all ok then you need to start looking into the vac/pressure solenoid system under the inlet plenum, commonly known as the rats nest. Search here for the diagram, but you might find it a ball ache so better to take to a specialist.
 
I would also consider getting a different ecu, the mines one will be mapped to Jap fuel 102 octane and during these colds months you might find the car will run lean and pop due to pre-ignition.
 
Plug and play ecu\'s are Apexi pfc or Link plug in units

 
the car has a aftermarket ground kit on it already and a new battery? also the alternator is putting out just over 14 volts, when i check the recharge on the battery it is 13.9v so only a slight drop, but this drop causes it to idle a bit lumpy... if I turn everything off the car runs better and the volt across the battery raise from 13.9 to just over 14 again?? Think the grond kit needs cleaning up..
 
I was talking to a company in the uk local actually who said they could map the ecu so I have solved that one lol.
 
Intercooler pipes are all good by the looks and feel. So looks like I will have to look at the dreaded rats nest. Any idea where to start and how to test maybe?
 
Is there any rx7 specialists on here that are near me????:driving
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: lennycarloff on December 03, 2011, 10:10:28 AM
Hi there you have mx5 motors (hayward north) in doncaster,hope you can get it sorted
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 03, 2011, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: lennycarloff;801050Hi there you have mx5 motors (hayward north) in doncaster,hope you can get it sorted

 
thankyou will check them out
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 03, 2011, 06:25:13 PM
right had a drive in the rx today again, I have noticed a few more clues to help diagnose the smoking problem?
 
When I started the car this morning no smoke just a bit of condensation. When the car is warmed un it then begins to smoke lightly at idle (blue) and smells of oil, when you drive the car off of boost it smokes enough to see through the rear window? When you pull up at a junction you will see a big bloom of smoke as you pull up then it dies down a little?? You can smell it in the car really bad.
 
When you boost the car it runs about 1 bar up until 4000rpm then the cars splutters and back fires and the boost drops as a result of this.. It is like the second turbo isnt coming online at all??? but I wouldnt no as I have never owned one of these.
 
There is some pipes blocked off under the bonnet, two big ones that are next to each other above the turbos? and i had a very brief look under the inlet manifold, didnt take off just peered underneath.. I noticed some hard litle metal pipes that had no silicon pipes on them??? Dont know if there is some kind of MOD been done to the car??
 
Sorry for the long story just trying to love my car and get to the bottom of its smokey and backfire problems :Tongue1
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: Brett on December 04, 2011, 08:47:19 AM
Sounds like someone may have tried to make it non-sequential.

Given the amount of smoke I\'d imagine you have at least one knackered turbo... is it using a lot of oil?
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 04, 2011, 09:11:19 AM
T
Quote from: Brett;801169Sounds like someone may have tried to make it non-sequential.

Given the amount of smoke I\'d imagine you have at least one knackered turbo... is it using a lot of oil?
It does not seem to use any oil, but definately is oil out the exhaust just doesnt seem to be using much even though it stinks of it
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: RobMatthews on December 04, 2011, 11:11:19 AM
Unfortunatly until you know what your really looking at and how the car should behave its gonna be very hard work, it may be simple and easier to get it to a specialist or someone local to you with one to compare?

Not all the small hard vacuum pipe are used in japan/uk. so some would be unused, places like canada/usa had slightly different set-ups for things such as emmission control/altitude/climate etc

Have you had a look in the i/c pipework and i/c to see how much oil if any is in there? If its lagged, it would suggest a problem with turbo seals.
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: wolfie1 on December 04, 2011, 12:32:15 PM
have you tried changing the fuel pump cause that can give the symptons your experiencing at that rpm, mine did
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 04, 2011, 06:25:17 PM
Quote from: RobMatthews;801180Unfortunatly until you know what your really looking at and how the car should behave its gonna be very hard work, it may be simple and easier to get it to a specialist or someone local to you with one to compare?
 
Not all the small hard vacuum pipe are used in japan/uk. so some would be unused, places like canada/usa had slightly different set-ups for things such as emmission control/altitude/climate etc
 
Have you had a look in the i/c pipework and i/c to see how much oil if any is in there? If its lagged, it would suggest a problem with turbo seals.

 
hi there checked the ic piping not one sport of oil, but ami right in thinking that the hot side could have oil leaking causing the smoke, then the oil wouldn\'t be in the ic piping??? might be wrong on that though... will check the fuel pump and filter tomorrow see if there is anything there a miss.
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: rx7boy on December 06, 2011, 12:43:57 AM
If someone has tried to make it non-sequential then check the flap in the under the turbo pack manifold is being help open, some bodge it tuners use a piece of metal to hold it open which is normally too thin or corrodes away making the flap move about. this would stop exhaust gasses reaching your second turbo hence the power drop and spluter at 4k

Just get under the car and see if you can see the flap arm and check that is is secured or attached to a actuator

HTH
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 06, 2011, 05:04:24 PM
Quote from: rx7boy;801427If someone has tried to make it non-sequential then check the flap in the under the turbo pack manifold is being help open, some bodge it tuners use a piece of metal to hold it open which is normally too thin or corrodes away making the flap move about. this would stop exhaust gasses reaching your second turbo hence the power drop and spluter at 4k
 
Just get under the car and see if you can see the flap arm and check that is is secured or attached to a actuator
 
HTH

this next clue I gained today might help with this theory. When I am driving there is a dumping sound all the time, like a blow off valve kind of noise, it does this noise even when decelerating with my foot just touching the accelerator??? It is really hard to explain on here what i mean? Like I have said checked the ic piping etc there is no leaks. It is like a constant rush of air noise which would say thare is a leak!! this flap thing sounds interesting because that what it sounds like!!!!
 
sorry about the naff explaination :(
 
Oooooh yes quick one whilst I am posting, what levels should the water be topped up to in the two tanks
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 06, 2011, 05:29:28 PM
The two caps are linked in the same system. If you stand at the front of the car the black plastic part is the AST (air separation tank) and the one on the waterpump is the main feed. If you look at the front bumper on the left there is a 3rd tank for the overflow with a plastic level stick.

If you look at the back of the engine there is a hose on the throttle body, unclip this and place higher up (its the highest point in the circuit). Fill up the AST till it fills up to the top and doesn\'t drop. Close that cap then fill the one on the waterpump. Once you get close to the end up a cutup bottle on the filling point and put a head of water above the cap. Go back to the pipe at the back and recouple, it should be pflowing coolant out as you plug back in. Fill the overflow to half way and then do a few runs. Top up from the waterpump cap after a cooldown to take up the air. If it takes a wee from the overflow tank you know the system is bled and you should need to put any more in.

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 06, 2011, 06:23:41 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;801499The two caps are linked in the same system. If you stand at the front of the car the black plastic part is the AST (air separation tank) and the one on the waterpump is the main feed. If you look at the front bumper on the left there is a 3rd tank for the overflow with a plastic level stick.
 
If you look at the back of the engine there is a hose on the throttle body, unclip this and place higher up (its the highest point in the circuit). Fill up the AST till it fills up to the top and doesn\'t drop. Close that cap then fill the one on the waterpump. Once you get close to the end up a cutup bottle on the filling point and put a head of water above the cap. Go back to the pipe at the back and recouple, it should be pflowing coolant out as you plug back in. Fill the overflow to half way and then do a few runs. Top up from the waterpump cap after a cooldown to take up the air. If it takes a wee from the overflow tank you know the system is bled and you should need to put any more in.
 
 
i havent got any black plastic bottles??? the two I am looking at are at the front of the engine bay, they are both silver metal bottles!!!, I am a proper amerture I didn\'t even know there was another for the over flow, oooh dear me :2Confused
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 06, 2011, 06:33:51 PM
Odd you have 2 metal bottles. I can understand one because a lot of people get rid of the plastic AST tank because they are known to split.

Is there one cast into the top of the water pump ?

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 06, 2011, 06:34:24 PM
Unless one is an oil catch tank :Giggle

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 06, 2011, 07:10:49 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;801502Odd you have 2 metal bottles. I can understand one because a lot of people get rid of the plastic AST tank because they are known to split.
 
Is there one cast into the top of the water pump ?
 
Shaun

 
yes sorry one is on the waterpump, other is just to the right of it, same cap on it, but metal not plastic
 
:rollin
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: RobMatthews on December 06, 2011, 07:24:00 PM
dude befor going any further get some pics up so there is no confusion and we can help propperly!!
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 06, 2011, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: RobMatthews;801515dude befor going any further get some pics up so there is no confusion and we can help propperly!!
ok will do watch this space? going to get some pics tomorrow and will post them... anything in particular we need pics of?
 
-ecu
-certain parts of engine bay
-etc
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: RobMatthews on December 06, 2011, 09:27:59 PM
A few of the engine bay
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 07, 2011, 07:50:33 PM
(http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg)
(http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ3QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00301.jpg)
(http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ4QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00300.jpg)
(http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ6QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00297.jpg)
(http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00302.jpg)
 
dunt no if this is going to work????
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 07, 2011, 07:51:08 PM
http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00302.jpg (http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00302.jpg)
http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ3QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00301.jpg
http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ4QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00300.jpg
http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/123tom123tom/?action=view¤t=DSC00303.jpg#!oZZ6QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1130.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm531%2F123tom123tom%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DDSC00297.jpg
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: HaywardRotary on December 07, 2011, 10:30:41 PM
The ecu is a stock ecu that has been chipped to run more boost in Japan where they have much higher octane fuel than we can get here,often engine detonate when they get here due to our poor quality fuel. Maybe that has happened in your case.
A stock ecu should run around 10psi of boost not 1bar.
It seems likely that you have a major engine problem to me.
Regards
Carl
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 09:07:47 AM
sounds like set of turbos at the very least to me,but thats not a job you want to do on your drive on a sunday afternoon,
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 09:08:20 AM
Quote from: HaywardRotary;801674The ecu is a stock ecu that has been chipped to run more boost in Japan where they have much higher octane fuel than we can get here,often engine detonate when they get here due to our poor quality fuel. Maybe that has happened in your case.
A stock ecu should run around 10psi of boost not 1bar.
It seems likely that you have a major engine problem to me.
Regards
Carl

if there was any major issues though would car not run??? it starts first time every time it seems to idle perfect and drive on the first turbo very well??, it is over fueling badly though? I am confused, I am getting the car pressure tested today, is there anything else i should look at having to done to check the health of the cars engine??
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 09:11:57 AM
Quote from: a.tapos;801697sounds like set of turbos at the very least to me,but thats not a job you want to do on your drive on a sunday afternoon,

I have a car workshop, I own a bodyshop so have plenty of room and tools :D
 
I am having the car tested today for compression, if everything is ok might be looking at the single turbo route.... I have done this before with a supra, got that thing running 642bhp that was a street weapon.:burnout
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 09:12:47 AM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;801698if there was any major issues though would car not run??? it starts first time every time it seems to idle perfect and drive on the first turbo very well??, it is over fueling badly though? I am confused, I am getting the car pressure tested today, is there anything else i should look at having to done to check the health of the cars engine??

alot of cars will run with horrendous internal problems before they stop,to be honest sounds like it is running rich which will also cause the smoke you are witnessing,first thing id do is stick a a standard ecu on it as they are cheap as hell at the moment and see if it clears up/drives better,problem with chipped ecus is you cant do anything with them over here so unless you know the exact spec of the ecu your just risking it.especially if its set to a bar of boost,that could also be the reason your 2nd turbo is failing
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 09:13:51 AM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;801699I have a car workshop, I own a bodyshop so have plenty of room and tools :D
 
I am having the car tested today for compression, if everything is ok might be looking at the single turbo route.... I have done this before with a supra, got that thing running 642bhp that was a street weapon.:burnout

good that will help be patiant with it they are fiddly but do able.
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 09:32:35 AM
Right I have been looking at putting a stardard ecu back on the car to see if it clears some issues up? Like running really rich
 
I have been looking through ebay, there are several ecu\'s that are the same N3A7 code but every single one has the following code on the ecu and mine is different:
 
N3A7 18 881C  (loads on ebay)
 
N3A7 18 881A  (my code)  none on ebay
 
just wondering before I purchase one, will this matter? The main code is the same don\'t know what the difference is if any
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 09:35:53 AM
funnily enough i have got one....
 
N3A7 18 881A
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 09:46:27 AM
just realised i think mine is a knight sport so will be fuely too.
ive used different part numbers on standard rx7s and as long as the plugs fit theres no real difference,
 
the 1c i believe is just an updated version of 1a/1b
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: a.tapos;801707just realised i think mine is a knight sport so will be fuely too.
ive used different part numbers on standard rx7s and as long as the plugs fit theres no real difference,
 
the 1c i believe is just an updated version of 1a/1b

 
can some one confirm this please before I purchase if possible????
 
Also the knigh sport version is that remappable??
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: HaywardRotary on December 08, 2011, 10:16:12 AM
The ecu you have on already is standard with the exception of being chipped to make more boost. No point in trying another stock ecu as it will be the same regarding the running issues.That having been said a stock ecu would be a good idea to limit boost along with a fairly stockish exhaust at least with the cat still on.
Have you given the car a good service?
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: HaywardRotary on December 08, 2011, 10:17:51 AM
If you want power you need an Apexi. the Knightsports ecu is same as yours ie:- a chipped ecu.
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: HaywardRotary;801712The ecu you have on already is standard with the exception of being chipped to make more boost. No point in trying another stock ecu as it will be the same regarding the running issues.That having been said a stock ecu would be a good idea to limit boost along with a fairly stockish exhaust at least with the cat still on.
Have you given the car a good service?

 
there car has had a oil service about 3 weeks ago, using  dealer recommended oil? and filter, I believe the plugs have been changed as there was empty boxes in the glove box, they look fairly new??? all these are going to get done today I am going to pull the plugs to have a look at them (check for oil/coolant goo etc) I am going to change the fuel filter...
Is there anything I need to look for whilst doing this stuff to look for or check???
Also the chip on the ecu I know is made to run on better fuel, could this cause problems with the running of the car, I am using momentum 99 ron tesco fuel
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 11:03:52 AM
how abut i send you my standard ecu for free to try and you can send it back if its no good,or buy it if you want it,my knightsport is pre programmed not mappable
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: RobMatthews on December 08, 2011, 02:43:43 PM
Here is a site that seems pretty usefull and should answer a lot of your questions and provide you with the \'rats nest\'.

click here (http://www.turborx7.com/rx7vacuum.htm)
another site for trouble shooting (http://www.autosportracetech.com/RX-7/TurboTroubleshooting.htm)

I get the feeling your gonna do a compression test with a standard piston tester? This is possible but no way ideal, and the compression tester needs modifing slightly by removing the peak hold pin. so you get a reading on all three faces of the rotor, there is a thread somewhere about it and translates what the readings should be.

The woshing sound your hearing on accelleration could also be just air being sucked in by the turbos rather than a leak,depends on the type of filter on the end of the pipes or the flexi on the shiny pipes my have a split which would cause that sound.  imo that intake system you got on there is not ideal to say the least, but shouldn\'t affect performance unless the filters are clogged or wet-both likely if the are down behind the bumper.
If your sure all the vac lines are correctly fitted and not split/worn-even slightly I would say change them, you can get black silicone to keep the standard look I would look at the solenoids and check them
Here is a guide by a member, solenoid check (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44377)
On the front of the turbos there are two short pipes which should have restrictor pills in make sure the pipes are in good condition(unless you have aftermarket boost control?)

lso check the wastegates are in good condition and not stuck open or something as if their open the turbos arnt getting the exhaust gas to spool on!
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 07:47:50 PM
Quote from: a.tapos;801717how abut i send you my standard ecu for free to try and you can send it back if its no good,or buy it if you want it,my knightsport is pre programmed not mappable

 
done deal mate that is very sporting of you:)
 
do you want my address through here
 
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 08, 2011, 08:04:16 PM
Quote from: RobMatthews;801741Here is a site that seems pretty usefull and should answer a lot of your questions and provide you with the \'rats nest\'.
 
click here (http://www.turborx7.com/rx7vacuum.htm)
another site for trouble shooting (http://www.autosportracetech.com/RX-7/TurboTroubleshooting.htm)
 
I get the feeling your gonna do a compression test with a standard piston tester? This is possible but no way ideal, and the compression tester needs modifing slightly by removing the peak hold pin. so you get a reading on all three faces of the rotor, there is a thread somewhere about it and translates what the readings should be.
 
The woshing sound your hearing on accelleration could also be just air being sucked in by the turbos rather than a leak,depends on the type of filter on the end of the pipes or the flexi on the shiny pipes my have a split which would cause that sound. imo that intake system you got on there is not ideal to say the least, but shouldn\'t affect performance unless the filters are clogged or wet-both likely if the are down behind the bumper.
If your sure all the vac lines are correctly fitted and not split/worn-even slightly I would say change them, you can get black silicone to keep the standard look I would look at the solenoids and check them
Here is a guide by a member, solenoid check (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44377)
On the front of the turbos there are two short pipes which should have restrictor pills in make sure the pipes are in good condition(unless you have aftermarket boost control?)
 
lso check the wastegates are in good condition and not stuck open or something as if their open the turbos arnt getting the exhaust gas to spool on!

found where the woooshing sound was coming from today, it was a pipe that feeds air back into the air intake pipes (metal shiney intake pipes), it had come out air was rushing into the engine bay and not back into the intake.
 
I also took the car on a long run today to try and figure out what is happening, I found if I ease the power on instead of trying to WOT, I can manage to get the 2nd turbo to come on line I think with out any spluttering back firing and all that crap. As soon as I WOT the car though it is the same old story.
 
Took the plugs out today leading plugs where really sooted up trailing plugs weren\'t that bad, I cleaned them up anway.. no sign of oil on them though.
 
Compression test hmmmm not sure it was accurate (hoping it wasnt anyway), I had already read up on doing this by taking the tyre valve thingy out of the compression tester, removing pump relay and making sure the car was warm before i did the test.
 
Results where: front rotor, 75,75,75 psi
rear rotor: exactly the same more or less  
 
Hoping these results are wrong obviously!!!! The car runs fine ad dandy and start on the first turn of the key with no hesitation what so ever.
 
Champagne test: no bubble or fizzing what so ever
 
oil loss: none what so ever...
 
I AM LOST :confused::confused::confused:
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: stylus350 on December 08, 2011, 08:10:09 PM
I found taking twins off the FD easier than a 2J. Still a pita though :)
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 08, 2011, 08:18:18 PM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;801810done deal mate that is very sporting of you:)
 
do you want my address through here
 
 
regards tom

 
send me a email to a.m.t@hotmail.co.uk (a.m.t@hotmail.co.uk) and ill post it
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: clive on December 08, 2011, 09:02:48 PM
Sorry to see you having problems, but real pleased to see  your now going forward and happy to see the guys on here helping you like they are.

Sounds like the stock ECU and a boost gauge in psi is going to tell you most of what your going to need to know,

BTW if it starts cold and hot with no water noises going on I would say there\'s not much wrong with this car which means it\'s not a lemon :Thumbs-up.
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: Wombat-007 on December 08, 2011, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;801812I also took the car on a long run today to try and figure out what is happening, I found if I ease the power on instead of trying to WOT, I can manage to get the 2nd turbo to come on line I think with out any spluttering back firing and all that crap. As soon as I WOT the car though it is the same old story.
 
Took the plugs out today leading plugs where really sooted up trailing plugs weren\'t that bad, I cleaned them up anway.. no sign of oil on them though.
 
I AM LOST :confused::confused::confused:

Ignition breakdown? Leading coil buggered??
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 09, 2011, 09:50:39 AM
Different theory completely hear lads and a bit of a stabb in the dark?
 
What would cause servere over fueling?
 
I have now noticed if i start the car from cold no smoke at all, as soon as you blib the throttle clouds of smoke...
 
IMPORTANT notice, the smoke now is white in colour, smells of fuel and hurts your eyes lol, sound stupid but thought i would try to be as clear as possible.
 
The afr gauge reads really rich on WOT and that is when the back firing and stumbling accours. Boost wise it shoots to about 1bar upto 4000 rpm then drops off due to the back firing etc.
 
I know these cars dont do much MPG but I have been driving steady and hard (trying to figure the car out) and to £50 of 99 ron tesco fuel it did 100km not even 60 miles..... there has got to be something wrong there???
 
Question is I suppose what could cause servere over fueling... the car has full decat exhaust????
 
cheers agin lads and sorry to be a complete pain, would love just to drive the car with no problems at least once :Laugh
 
forgot wat is the wire just above the trailing spark plug front rotor, litrally 10mm away just above
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 09, 2011, 09:54:47 AM
Quote from: clive;801816Sorry to see you having problems, but real pleased to see your now going forward and happy to see the guys on here helping you like they are.
 
Sounds like the stock ECU and a boost gauge in psi is going to tell you most of what your going to need to know,
 
BTW if it starts cold and hot with no water noises going on I would say there\'s not much wrong with this car which means it\'s not a lemon :Thumbs-up.

cheers, great club and a great set of lads... I have been on some forums (supra) being one of them and there sometimes very sarcastic and not helpful in the slightest
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: HaywardRotary on December 09, 2011, 11:09:04 AM
Is the Map sensor on the firewall near the throttle body connected or has the pipe come off?
I think it might be a good idea to take it to someone as the problem might be something easy to fix having heard all you have said so far.
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 09, 2011, 03:58:40 PM
Quote from: HaywardRotary;801912Is the Map sensor on the firewall near the throttle body connected or has the pipe come off?
I think it might be a good idea to take it to someone as the problem might be something easy to fix having heard all you have said so far.


SOMETHING WEIRD HAS HAPPENED!!!  the car has fixed itself in regards to the 2nd turbo not working and the juddering/back fires at high revs..

For the first time the 2nd turbo clearly comes in and the car effortlessly accelerates through the rev range right through to 7500-8000..... took it for a run and held the revs at 4500 in 3rd heard a woosh of air and hey presto it started to work????? was something stuck shut/closed I don\'t know.

Still have the problem of oil burning though now the second turbo is kicking in. It is when ever I pull up to a junction it clouds out the exhaust still think it is the first /second turbo seals leaking.

Looked under the car there seems to be a bit of oil round the turbo area like the oil drain for the turbo???

regards tom :)
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 11, 2011, 11:45:32 AM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;801969SOMETHING WEIRD HAS HAPPENED!!!  the car has fixed itself in regards to the 2nd turbo not working and the juddering/back fires at high revs..

For the first time the 2nd turbo clearly comes in and the car effortlessly accelerates through the rev range right through to 7500-8000..... took it for a run and held the revs at 4500 in 3rd heard a woosh of air and hey presto it started to work????? was something stuck shut/closed I don\'t know.

Still have the problem of oil burning though now the second turbo is kicking in. It is when ever I pull up to a junction it clouds out the exhaust still think it is the first /second turbo seals leaking.

Looked under the car there seems to be a bit of oil round the turbo area like the oil drain for the turbo???

regards tom :)

think I am going to bite the bullet and buy a set of turbos??? will all year fd3s fit mine 92 onwards
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 11, 2011, 12:12:05 PM
While its in bits it could be a case of rebuilding the rats nest and testing everything. Its a big job but may be half of the cause. It could be a sticky solenoid that is causing the intermittent turbo problem.

Although you need to swap the turbo out if the oil seals are goosed anyway.

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 11, 2011, 03:03:00 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;802132While its in bits it could be a case of rebuilding the rats nest and testing everything. Its a big job but may be half of the cause. It could be a sticky solenoid that is causing the intermittent turbo problem.
 
Although you need to swap the turbo out if the oil seals are goosed anyway.
 
Shaun

 
still guessing at the turbo oil seals??? just the blue smike only seems to come after the car has been drove? I can  start the car from cold and there will be no smoke at all, until the turbo\'s have been brought on line by driving, then blue smoke will appear.
 
Another quick one here, are the turbo\'s oil and water cooled on these or just oil
 
regards tom
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 11, 2011, 03:34:44 PM
Looking in the workshop manual they are both water and oil cooled !

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 11, 2011, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;802152Looking in the workshop manual they are both water and oil cooled !
 
Shaun

that would explain then some time the clouds of white smoke aswell not just the blue??? if one or two turbo seals have failed!!
 
am going to start and strip the thing down tomorrow, see what we come up with... can i get tub\'s off with removing engine
 
:D
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 11, 2011, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: a.tapos;801717how abut i send you my standard ecu for free to try and you can send it back if its no good,or buy it if you want it,my knightsport is pre programmed not mappable

 
hi there, just wondering if you have sent the ecu, if so I can have the misses watch out for it
 
regards tom :)
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 11, 2011, 10:48:46 PM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;802172that would explain then some time the clouds of white smoke aswell not just the blue??? if one or two turbo seals have failed!!
 
am going to start and strip the thing down tomorrow, see what we come up with... can i get tub\'s off with removing engine
 
:D

You can get it off without having to take the engine out but its a big job. Have you got a copy of the workshop manual ?

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 12, 2011, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;802198You can get it off without having to take the engine out but its a big job. Have you got a copy of the workshop manual ?

Shaun

no copy of manual??  is it that bad lol :)
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 12, 2011, 10:17:21 PM
il post it tommorow mate,bit rushed today,turbos are much easier on a ramp,i take the engine mounts off completely so you can push the engine over,i also take the little horseshoe clips off the wastegate actuators and remove them as it gives you much more room,i strongly recomend you only do his job if your patient,mechanically skilled and equipped,by no means a impossible job just give yourself a day(or two)
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 13, 2011, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: a.tapos;802327il post it tommorow mate,bit rushed today,turbos are much easier on a ramp,i take the engine mounts off completely so you can push the engine over,i also take the little horseshoe clips off the wastegate actuators and remove them as it gives you much more room,i strongly recomend you only do his job if your patient,mechanically skilled and equipped,by no means a impossible job just give yourself a day(or two)

I own a bodyshop with ramps etc lol.... not a trained mechanic but quite a skilled diy one ;) welding, spanner work, single turbo conversions etc done it all.....   Patients  hmmmmm:Thumbs-up
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 13, 2011, 12:27:01 PM
ecu sent mate
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: shaunwil on December 13, 2011, 06:04:30 PM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;802237no copy of manual??  is it that bad lol :)

This should help a lot :

http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rx7manual#thirdgen

Shaun
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 13, 2011, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: shaunwil;802418This should help a lot :
 
http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rx7manual#thirdgen
 
Shaun

 
that is awesome mate cheers very much  :)
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 13, 2011, 06:28:40 PM
Quote from: a.tapos;802382ecu sent mate

thanks mate much appreciated ;) will let you know how i get on, got big plans unfolding my end involving lots of new shiney bits :Tongue1
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: a.tapos on December 13, 2011, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: 123tom123tom;802422thanks mate much appreciated ;) will let you know how i get on, got big plans unfolding my end involving lots of new shiney bits :Tongue1

love shiney bits:cool
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on December 14, 2011, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: a.tapos;802469love shiney bits:cool

 
we all love shiney bits :Giggle the hard bit getting rid of the dull bits, i.e that rats nest lol
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: fd3szhi on January 06, 2012, 11:11:29 PM
tom where about r u im in sheffield area if you close i can bring my car to your palce or u can come up to my so you can have a look at the difference and it might give you a better idea as to what is wrong
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on January 07, 2012, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: fd3szhi;805317tom where about r u im in sheffield area if you close i can bring my car to your palce or u can come up to my so you can have a look at the difference and it might give you a better idea as to what is wrong

 
HI there mate not a bad Idea, but your about 2 weeks too late :) I have started to single turbo the car down at my workshop? By all means though come down one day and we can have a chat and a nosey at each others cars.
I have all the bits for the car and it is nearly done, just a bit more fabricating here and there
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: fd3szhi on January 07, 2012, 11:13:42 PM
Yer why not my number is 07772303836 drop me a txt n we can have a nosy
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on January 08, 2012, 09:29:29 AM
Quote from: fd3szhi;805501Yer why not my number is 07772303836 drop me a txt n we can have a nosy

whats your name mate?
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: fd3szhi on January 08, 2012, 12:39:53 PM
the clue is in my name zhi
Title: hi there and oops think I have bought a lemon
Post by: 123tom123tom on January 08, 2012, 05:30:15 PM
Quote from: fd3szhi;805571the clue is in my name zhi
lol haha of course :rollin my name is 123