Hi everyone,
Just wondering how much it would cost to get straight cut gears for my FC, might also get a ikeya shifter as well :)
Basically I am upgrading my power level again, so I doubt my stock FC box will cope running over 3 times stock power through it.
I have been told that the rx8 box is slightly stronger, but is there anything that I can buy to upgrade the gears etc so that they can cope? I can\'t really afford a jericho box!
Just wondering what my options would be for running higher power, I will be ok for a while though. I do know that the MX5 5th gear fits the FC box giving it a longer 5th gear for economy, are there any other OEM gearsets (like out of a Mazda truck) that might be stronger and still fit?
If your wanting any kind of box to handle power you got to pay the big bucks for it. Also if your worrying about the box you better worry about the diff too as that will go caput straight after you solve the gear box issue.
Best advice is to be sensible with what you want to build and build it reliably so you don\'t have to keep spending money on it.
Perfect example is from rs8 this weekend, James willaday runs a 6grand sequential dog box and he broke it this weekend. Not something you want to be doing is it really.
You can strengthen the gear box from twisting by removing the bottom plate and have a thick steel plate cut and drilled to go between the box and the original plate.
Hope this helps.
I will be running a sump ring on the engine anyway, what usually breaks the box? Is it the twisting or the internally physically not coping lol clutch is only rated to 700bhp though.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;784406If your wanting any kind of box to handle power you got to pay the big bucks for it. Also if your worrying about the box you better worry about the diff too as that will go caput straight after you solve the gear box issue.
Best advice is to be sensible with what you want to build and build it reliably so you don\'t have to keep spending money on it.
Perfect example is from rs8 this weekend, James willaday runs a 6grand sequential dog box and he broke it this weekend. Not something you want to be doing is it really.
You can strengthen the gear box from twisting by removing the bottom plate and have a thick steel plate cut and drilled to go between the box and the original plate.
Hope this helps.
Care to explain the bold part? Have you done this before and on what set up?
Basically a sandwich plate on the bottom of the gear box where the access panel is. A bit like a plate inserted on the bottom of the engine to stop it twisting. A number of people who\'s engine and setups iv seen have done this. I don\'t know how much difference it would make but trying twisting a 10mm thick steel plate on the bottom of the gear box takes a lot of torque!
Quote from: m1tch;784408I will be running a sump ring on the engine anyway, what usually breaks the box? Is it the twisting or the internally physically not coping lol clutch is only rated to 700bhp though.
Torque generated by the engine creates twisting motion. Think of it as a reason why people solid mount there engines to the chassis etc. It\'s becomes noisy but strength is gained.
Don\'t take my word for granted but if your planning to over power a 700HP clutch then you better be thinking of chassis strengthening. A good cage.
Yeah, I am planning a full weld in cage as its a handling upgrade - best strut brace you can get! But won\'t be for a while, im just thinking about what I might need in future, my FC will never be sold, so it will be a work in progress, probably keep it around the 500-600bhp power for a while, stock FC box, stock FC diff and stock FC oil cooler are rated to that power anyway, unlike the FD drivetrain that seems to be a bit weaker!
The car will be in full street trim, will be 100% street legal and won\'t be stripped out, its not my daily drive, but its driven on the road, so I can\'t exactly get a 3 speed box lol
Would swapping out gearsets with another Mazda be an idea?
What turbo you getting now?
Quote from: lee mills;784427What turbo you getting now?
Buying Petes older TA45 hybrid off Keith, basically an old school T51 :) should make good power :chat
Ive found that PPG do a full 5 speed straight cut set for the 7 :)
Yes but finding a Mazda box that was built for power will be very unlikely.
There\'s nothing wrong with FD boxes, it\'s just that when people use a 20b they use the fc bic because it can be made shorter to allow the engine to be moved further back. 103mm to be exact as im currently looking to mod my FD box with the read housing off an fc box and shorten it to go in my rx4.
I honestly don\'t think your diff is going to cope too well at 600whp unless you have removed it, cleaned it strengthened it and replaced all the bushes. And maybe solid bushes for the diff mounts as they are probably going to take a beating with that power
Wouldn\'t all the damage occur if you suddenly shocked the drivetrain with that much power though? I would only run that power progressivly in say 3rd, 4th and 5th, 1st and second gear I would run at a lower power so I can get traction etc
Why don\'t you save a bit of cash and get a GT42, if this cars going to be a long project it will be worth the extra cash.
Quote from: m1tch;784428Buying Petes older TA45 hybrid off Keith, basically an old school T51 :) should make good power :chat
Ive found that PPG do a full 5 speed straight cut set for the 7 :)
according to his ad on fduk it was pointed out that it would only make 4_470bhp tops.
might be wrong but worth checking out with someone who knows more about turbos( ie Ed) before you sell your t88 as im sure you dont want to be making less power;):D
I think there will be many turbos attached to the engines in this car lol my initial plans were to fit a GT4088, then it was a T88, now a TA45 lol I will be at a GT60 by next year :D
Im still well within budget on my car, so I guess I might upgrade to a GT42, think I will get all the ancilaries sorted first though, need to add in a 3rd fuel rail and an AN8 fuel line, plus buy 2 more fuel pumps first!
Quote from: lee mills;784436according to his ad on fduk it was pointed out that it would only make 4_470bhp tops.
might be wrong but worth checking out with someone who knows more about turbos( ie Ed) before you sell your t88 as im sure you dont want to be making less power;):D
Yeah, some people said under 500, some say 700 lol the turbo is as big as a T51, so slightly bigger than my T88, plus its a hybrid lol trying to get hold of pete to see what numbers it made before it ate his engine!
There is a TA45 powered SA22C RX7 thats making 601 RWHP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhxTsGXJvNQ
isn\'t exactly small:
(http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44752&d=1248556084)
Quote from: m1tch;784433Wouldn\'t all the damage occur if you suddenly shocked the drivetrain with that much power though? I would only run that power progressivly in say 3rd, 4th and 5th, 1st and second gear I would run at a lower power so I can get traction etc
Yes but with the power you want, coming off the gas on the gas off the gas even in third you can still brake stuff easily
This is mostly stuff I have learnt from others experience, as I will be hopefully putting it into practice when my rx4 is running by the end of this year.
I am hoping for 500fwhp and I will have to learn to drive it as that is a lot of power, I want to get a 10 second pass but I\'m going to brake stuff along the way.
So whatever power level your wanting be prepared to brake things and replace them at cost
Power will be whatever the engine puts out at 1.2 to 1.4bar
GRANT: James didnt have a sequential ....his is H pattern....if it was seq\' i doubt it would have broken what it eventually broke.
MITCH: I think you should speak to Ben (initial D)....as he went from a ta45 to the T88-34D....so he can give you his real experience of the two
Hmm anyone got Ben\'s contact details? He is an MRC guest it seems, so I can\'t PM :( also the TA45 I will be getting is a hybrid, so isn\'t a straight TA45 (just to make things harder lol)
he is on here and on fduk.
Hybrid how ( ie whats been changed on it?)
i can only assue it will be running a diffent rear section...if so then i doubt you will he running enough boost to notice the difference.....and it wil pribably be laggier. But lets see whats been done first to get an idea on what you should expect.
back to your original thread...then i would say i really depends on how much you wanna spend....and how you will be driving and launching
Its Keith\'s TA45 he bought off Pete:
Think its a .9 AR HKS hotside and a .72 AR Garret compressor housing, but it doesn\'t have the larger ported shroud like I have seen other TA45s have, so it might have a TA45 centre, HKS hotside and another Garret compressor housing? Although I have just found a Garret TA45 with a .72 hotside on an aussie forum for his 9 second drag car making over 700bhp.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x71/TRINDMASTER/photo1.jpg)
Quote from: Ed_RX7;785448GRANT: James didnt have a sequential ....his is H pattern....if it was seq\' i doubt it would have broken what it eventually broke.
Oh right, I was just going off what nik had said in another thread, as he said it was sequential. What did he break exactly then?
what power do you have at the moment?
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785458Quote from: Ed_RX7;785448GRANT: James didnt have a sequential ....his is H pattern....if it was seq\' i doubt it would have broken what it eventually broke.
Oh right, I was just going off what nik had said in another thread, as he said it was sequential. What did he break exactly then?
Main shaft i believe....a dn AFAIK...HKs no longer do them:mad:
Quote from: Ed_RX7;785616Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785458Main shaft i believe....a dn AFAIK...HKs no longer do them:mad:
Well that is complete and utter bum cakes!!:reallymad
Let\'s hope someone has a spare lying on a shelf collecting dust some where.
Back to the box
Quaiffe did from memory, a gear kit for the FC.
Also if you can find or make a bellhousing for a Mazda to type 9 ford box you could use a Sierra cosworth box with a straight cut close ratio kit or quaiffes own sequential box.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785648Quote from: Ed_RX7;785616Well that is complete and utter bum cakes!!:reallymad
Let\'s hope someone has a spare lying on a shelf collecting dust some where.
I think he may just get a liberty box if he cant get a sequential.
Quote from: antnicuk;785477what power do you have at the moment?
....lol stock
how much are you looking to spend Mitch?....i just got me a os 5 speed kit...so made some new contacts in japan and the US. Also have a contact in OZ who do some good gearsets also.
Quote from: kiwimazda;785654Back to the box
Quaiffe did from memory, a gear kit for the FC.
Also if you can find or make a bellhousing for a Mazda to type 9 ford box you could use a Sierra cosworth box with a straight cut close ratio kit or quaiffes own sequential box.
Do you mean something like this
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=7254
Shame they\'re only rated to 190hp.
flippin\' \'eck....for that money a total waste of time IMO........OS ones fit in the FD and FC box apparently
Quote from: Ed_RX7;785655Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785648I think he may just get a liberty box if he cant get a sequential.
Wil he not get a weight penalty using that though
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785662Do you mean something like this
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=7254
Shame they\'re only rated to 190hp.
Thats them. Higher HP ones are available if you go direct to quaiffe. Silverstone/lindop also said something about revs as well. They might be able to handle the bhp but not the revs.
I would contact Quaiffe direct and see if they will or do a FC kit.
As a side our RWD fiesta uses £14k worth of Tractive sequential box after wrecking 2 Drenth gearboxes in 2 rallys so spend wisely
seek and ye shall find
http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/search/results/taxonomy%3A256
I was thinking they should do higher HP versions as the I used to work for a company of which the owner also owned ginetta race cars and they use the quaiffe box for 3-500 HP cars.
However I do believe Mitch is looking for the \'cheap\' fix for a gear box. Maybe he should have thought about his goals before asking for the truth about how expensive a gear box can be to take HP and last a long time.
I would say that at a minimum Mitch you are going to be spending the best part of £1500 for a gear set, or you could just replace gear boxes at £150 a pop everytime you brake one?
Quote from: kiwimazda;785666Thats them. Higher HP ones are available if you go direct to quaiffe. Silverstone/lindop also said something about revs as well. They might be able to handle the bhp but not the revs.
I would contact Quaiffe direct and see if they will or do a FC kit.
As a side our RWD fiesta uses £14k worth of Tractive sequential box after wrecking 2 Drenth gearboxes in 2 rallys so spend wisely
Hehe, could I borrow your fiesta or a weekend ; )
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785664Quote from: Ed_RX7;785655Wil he not get a weight penalty using that though
I suppose he\'ll have to really lighten the car then;):Thumbs-up
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785678I was thinking they should do higher HP versions as the I used to work for a company of which the owner also owned ginetta race cars and they use the quaiffe box for 3-500 HP cars.
However I do believe Mitch is looking for the \'cheap\' fix for a gear box. Maybe he should have thought about his goals before asking for the truth about how expensive a gear box can be to take HP and last a long time.
I would say that at a minimum Mitch you are going to be spending the best part of £1500 for a gear set, or you could just replace gear boxes at £150 a pop everytime you brake one?
Fair Point!!!!
Quote from: Ed_RX7;785681Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;785664I suppose he\'ll have to really lighten the car then;):Thumbs-up
Iv got a big grinder he can borrow for some chop chop chopity chop? ;)
like i said before, get some power, then worry about it if you break a box
I spoke to Quaife on the phone a few months ago, they dont warranty the power past 400bhp on their kits for the rx7.
Stock gearbox handles my power, they only break the input shafts on multiple hard launches due to metal fatigue caused by shock loading. For the road the stock FC/FD boxes seem to handle the power up to 600bhp, past that and if you have big torque like a 20B they tend to strip 3rd gear
There are quite a few drag cars in US and puerta rico, RX3s,Rx2s running stock FC gearboxes down into the 8s, they do modify them with faceplated gears.
But as Tony said get the power first then worry about the gearbox
Ah yes the wayward 3rd gear. Mine went in the westy a few months back. Kaaaboom.
Quote from: lee mills;784436according to his ad on fduk it was pointed out that it would only make 4_470bhp tops.
might be wrong but worth checking out with someone who knows more about turbos( ie Ed) before you sell your t88 as im sure you dont want to be making less power;):D
Just so you know, mitch was made aware of this before he purchased, and with a little research, he is quite happy, as only edd has said it would be nice on some internal measures and to see what\'s been done. But there are cars running this same turbo up to 1000hp in oz. Just so you know im not trying to rip him off, Or anyone else who was interested, I told them to check with a expert. :Thumbsup! Any way back to the gearbox.
Buy Edds bits mitch , there shiny
Quote from: TRIND-FD;785880Just so you know, mitch was made aware of this before he purchased, and with a little research, he is quite happy, as only edd has said it would be nice on some internal measures and to see what\'s been done. But there are cars running this same turbo up to 1000hp in oz. Just so you know im not trying to rip him off, Or anyone else who was interested, I told them to check with a expert. :Thumbsup! Any way back to the gearbox.
Buy Edds bits mitch , there shiny
Didn,t say you were trying to rip him off just suggesting that he checked out wether or not it would make more power than his t88 as this was his ultimate goal:Thumbs-up
Sorry Lee, was not aiming at you, but in general to people who are reading the thread.
Quote from: TRIND-FD;785880Just so you know, mitch was made aware of this before he purchased, and with a little research, he is quite happy, as only edd has said it would be nice on some internal measures and to see what\'s been done. But there are cars running this same turbo up to 1000hp in oz. Just so you know im not trying to rip him off, Or anyone else who was interested, I told them to check with a expert. :Thumbsup! Any way back to the gearbox.
Buy Edds bits mitch , there shiny
I guess the only way is to bolt the turbo (which is larger than the T88 from a compressor housing dimention) and see what is makes?
Did someone mention shiny? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Ed_RX7;785660how much are you looking to spend Mitch?....i just got me a os 5 speed kit...so made some new contacts in japan and the US. Also have a contact in OZ who do some good gearsets also.
I had an aussie PPG gearset in my old gtir, i could not kill it!