Hi peeps
Some of you have now met me and my erm ..... Interesting car lol!
Well just thought I would get some feedback on this from the more knowledgeable people on rx7 than me!
I\'m pretty sure a water seal has a leak in one of the housings
Points to note!
No White smoke on start up or while driving
If I have the heater in the car set on hot and fans on using ac button, this cools down engine somewhat amazingly! If left to do it will, temps go up and up and up!!
I loose quarter to half a pint of water very journey!
New thermostat fitted
Refitted ast
New rad.....ebAy dodgy one ( do these flow badly?)
New antifreeze and flushed till crystal clear!
I have bleed the system a number of times, antifreeze does have a few small bubbles which feel as if coming from rad rather engine ( I say feel as I could feel a vibration in pipe when air was coming up) this didn\'t want to stop!
My thoughts are this could the rad be flowing badly? Causing water loss due to localised boiling due to air pockets? And this is why heater matrix cools engine better?
Yes i grasping at straws.... But once back from holiday I have to decide what I am going to do about this engine!
On a up note I\'ve probably done around 1000miles with it like this!
Any thoughts or free engines appreciated lol
Rob
Whats it like with the heaters on cold and the aircon on?
Keeps it cool unless i give it some! Ie 80-85 with on hot brings it right down between 70-80 unless I give it some
If you are sitting at idle do both the fans come on with the aircon off.
P.S. have you gave any thought to resending the AST removal cap :)
if im honest I havent noticed this! im even wondering if the pump is iffy? as i have changed the thermo switch to a FC one.
AST removal back in post tomoz, kinda hard to get to post office this week, but will tomoz as have full staff at work!.....to your NEW addy lol
It was the thermo switch I was wondering about but could still be a relay so worth having a look.
Taking the pump off for a look would be worth while as I changed a water pump on a Astra last week and the impeller was just a stump.
Do you know what temps the fans are set to come on, on your PFC (if you have one).
Can\'t believe I done that Ebay thing, I bought other stuff and its totally AWOL.
No PFC for me yet :(
had a try tonight with a/c button off and number plate removed from bumper to aid air flow.
got 16 miles then sat at some traffic lights for a few mins and temp went up to around 90 then got to where i was going parked up and it it 100 with no fans on!
so I chucked on the A/C swicth to cool her down wich it did so easily down to around 75.
I have changed the thermo switch to the FC one so the fans should be coming on earlyer....I gona check wiring from thermo switch tomorow afterwork...fingers crossed
if you have fitted an fc thermoswitch it makes the fans come on at around 93 deg instead of 107 deg of fd one then they switch them off at around 87 deg.
i think if you just put the thermoswitch wire to earth that will make fans come on so its easy to check
Ive done some extensive wiring investigation today it would appear that the fan switches work oppersit to how most people think....on the RX7 there is 2 therm swtches one that switches them on and one that changes speed of fans.
the actual thermo switch is earthed to start with, so unlpluging sensor turns fans on!
My fans come on at just over 100 and then go off when temp falls just under, me thinks he seals are defo gone as I hit these temps just sitting on my drive.
Another interesting point to mention is that I didn bother to top up my coolant today and once I swicthed off the car there was no boiling rumberling noise and the pressure release cap didnt release fluid back in to overflow tank.....
Im thinking perhaps getting a PFC and setting fans to come on at 85/90 is this feasable? as this could help my poorly engine last a tad longer lol till winter time for rebuild or engine?
Rob
if your fans arent coming on until over 100 then you dont have an fc switch or its faulty
Quote from: merlin2002;771614I
Im thinking perhaps getting a PFC and setting fans to come on at 85/90 is this feasable?
Yes :Thumbs-up
Are you using the same radiator cap you have always used, or the one you got with your new rad?
It\'s defo got an fc switch on her, also new rad cap from work!
Hmmm power fc lol
Quote from: merlin2002;771674............. also new rad cap from work!
I was thinking along the lines that the coolant wasn\'t being pressurised and hence would boil at 100degc.
I saw this many moons ago on an Astra where the bypass spring in the cap was goosed so the system could never pressurise and would just over heat like a Bi_ch!
Quote from: merlin2002;771674It\'s defo got an fc switch on her, also new rad cap from work!
Hmmm power fc lol
well ive got an fc swithch and it makes the fans come on at exactly 93 deg and turns them off at 87 deg it does it everytime at these temps checked many times on the commander. im guessing yours is faulty or you are taking measurements from a dif place to the standard temp sensor.
also i didnt think you can make changes to fan settings on the commander i thought it had to be dont on pc connected to the ecu???
Quote from: cyman;771688well ive got an fc swithch and it makes the fans come on at exactly 93 deg and turns them off at 87 deg it does it everytime at these temps checked many times on the commander. im guessing yours is faulty or you are taking measurements from a dif place to the standard temp sensor.
also i didnt think you can make changes to fan settings on the commander i thought it had to be dont on pc connected to the ecu???
Did you replace the lower of the 2 thermo switches?
i did it ages ago i would have to go and take a look. all i can remember is its on the back of the water filler housing.
Lots of mis-info here guys. The thermoswitch does NOT turn the fans on. With stock ECU, fans do not come on until temp reaches 105C. The thermoswitch creates an extra ground when it switches on and increases the fan speed but only when the fans are turned on by your ECU or you turn the A/C on.
FC thermoswitch will just mean the fan speed with be on a higher setting earlier than if you kept the stock FD thermoswitch. But this is still pretty pointless as the fans are not being turned on by the stock ECU until 105C anyway. If you get a Power FC, your tuner can set the temp the fans come on, it can\'t be done on the commander, only using the datalogit software. This info is all in the FSM (except Power FC haha). I\'ll find out the page numbers later so you can check it out.
Quote from: PDale;771745Lots of mis-info here guys. The thermoswitch does NOT turn the fans on. With stock ECU, fans do not come on until temp reaches 105C. The thermoswitch creates an extra ground when it switches on and increases the fan speed but only when the fans are turned on by your ECU or you turn the A/C on.
FC thermoswitch will just mean the fan speed with be on a higher setting earlier than if you kept the stock FD thermoswitch. But this is still pretty pointless as the fans are not being turned on by the stock ECU until 105C anyway. If you get a Power FC, your tuner can set the temp the fans come on, it can\'t be done on the commander, only using the datalogit software. This info is all in the FSM (except Power FC haha). I\'ll find out the page numbers later so you can check it out.
This was my understanding also! I also just read about the data logit!
Anyone got this equipment on here?
^^^^^^
Ah someone who knows his stuff :) Useful and interesting info to know! Thanks PDale!
Cheers
Tom
I have one but your a bit far away, quite a few guys on here have dataloggit\'s so im sure you could meet up with someone.
Quote from: PDale;771745Lots of mis-info here guys. The thermoswitch does NOT turn the fans on. With stock ECU, fans do not come on until temp reaches 105C. The thermoswitch creates an extra ground when it switches on and increases the fan speed but only when the fans are turned on by your ECU or you turn the A/C on.
FC thermoswitch will just mean the fan speed with be on a higher setting earlier than if you kept the stock FD thermoswitch. But this is still pretty pointless as the fans are not being turned on by the stock ECU until 105C anyway. If you get a Power FC, your tuner can set the temp the fans come on, it can\'t be done on the commander, only using the datalogit software. This info is all in the FSM (except Power FC haha). I\'ll find out the page numbers later so you can check it out.
sorry pdale but you are wrong here close to the right conclusion but still wrong :) . either the ecu or the thermoswitch or the ac will turn fans on at first speed. then if 2 of them are on its the 2nd speed if all 3 are on then they come on at the highest speed. so the thermoswitch does turn the fans on on its own.
see below it was taken from rx7club there are loads of threads on there about it this was just the easiest to find :)
Cooling fan operation 101:
The fan system has three speeds in which the speed selection depends upon the engine’s demand for cooling. There are three elements that demand the fans to operate: ECM, AC, and Water Temperature Thermoswitch. Also there was a Mazda recall that added a fan off delay circuit to resolve an underhood temperature problem but we won’t go into that here…
The fans have three separate motor winding taps whereas as voltage is applied via relays to consecutive (in any order) taps the fan speed increases.
The fans can be turned to LOW speed by any ONE of the ECM, AC or Thermoswitch actuating the respective relay(s). Relays 2 and 4 are operated by the ECM, relay 1 by the AC and relay 3 by the water thermoswitch. The ECM uses two relays for fault tolerance (they are redundant).
The fans can be turned to MEDIUM speed by any TWO of the ECM, AC or Thermoswitch closing the appropriate relays.
The fans can be turned to HIGH speed by all THREE (ECM, AC, and Thermoswitch) closing all of the relays.
it explains it more clearly i took ages reading up on this before i did it. trust me it works anyone can feel free to come and see my car if they require proof.
also merlin the lower of the two sensors is your thermoswitch so thats the one to that should of been swapped
Quote from: cyman;771756Also there was a Mazda recall that added a fan off delay circuit to resolve an underhood temperature problem but we won’t go into that here…
This is an issue i have and didnt know about the recall. Is it still possible to get it done?
Cheers
Tom
Quote from: cyman;771760also merlin the lower of the two sensors is your thermoswitch so thats the one to that should of been swapped
Thats the one I swapped out.... with that sensor unplgged the fans speed is at half speed with it pluged in is at full speed....as long as fans are actually on! as that sensor goes to relay 3
Quote from: cyman;771756sorry pdale but you are wrong here close to the right conclusion but still wrong :) . either the ecu or the thermoswitch or the ac will turn fans on at first speed. then if 2 of them are on its the 2nd speed if all 3 are on then they come on at the highest speed. so the thermoswitch does turn the fans on on its own.
see below it was taken from rx7club there are loads of threads on there about it this was just the easiest to find :)
Cooling fan operation 101:
The fan system has three speeds in which the speed selection depends upon the engine’s demand for cooling. There are three elements that demand the fans to operate: ECM, AC, and Water Temperature Thermoswitch. Also there was a Mazda recall that added a fan off delay circuit to resolve an underhood temperature problem but we won’t go into that here…
The fans have three separate motor winding taps whereas as voltage is applied via relays to consecutive (in any order) taps the fan speed increases.
The fans can be turned to LOW speed by any ONE of the ECM, AC or Thermoswitch actuating the respective relay(s). Relays 2 and 4 are operated by the ECM, relay 1 by the AC and relay 3 by the water thermoswitch. The ECM uses two relays for fault tolerance (they are redundant).
The fans can be turned to MEDIUM speed by any TWO of the ECM, AC or Thermoswitch closing the appropriate relays.
The fans can be turned to HIGH speed by all THREE (ECM, AC, and Thermoswitch) closing all of the relays.
it explains it more clearly i took ages reading up on this before i did it. trust me it works anyone can feel free to come and see my car if they require proof.
I too have read numerous posts on RX7Club as I was trying to resolve a fan problem a while ago. There are posts that support my findings on there too.:) I know my car doesn\'t have the fan control module recall so can\'t comment if someones car does.
Based on a car not having the fan control module recall, using the FSM and myself running electrical diagnostics on my car, I believe I am correct in saying the thermoswitch has no influence on turning the fans on. During my diagnostics I used test leads direct from my battery to the fan cable that corresponds to the thermoswitch circuit. I found it only acted as a ground, so required power from at least either the air con circuit(Relay No.1) or the ECU circuit(Relay No.2 and No.4). This is supported by the FSM wiring diagram Pg Z-40 (1994 wiring diagram, excluding fan control module recall).
As I say, I do not have any experience with the fan control module as my car does not have it. So in this instance we are probably both right. ;)
mate i have an fc thermoswitch fitted the thermoswitch WILL turn the fans on on its own with neither the ecu requesting it or the ac switch being on. i have it that is what happens.
Quote from: cyman;771688well ive got an fc swithch and it makes the fans come on at exactly 93 deg and turns them off at 87 deg it does it everytime at these temps checked many times on the commander. im guessing yours is faulty or you are taking measurements from a dif place to the standard temp sensor.
also i didnt think you can make changes to fan settings on the commander i thought it had to be dont on pc connected to the ecu???
Quotemate i have an fc thermoswitch fitted the thermoswitch WILL turn the fans on on its own with neither the ecu requesting it or the ac switch being on. i have it that is what happens.
Sorry dude but you are wrong. You said yourself your fans come on at 93C, which would be your Power FC telling your fans to come on. The FC thermoswitch switches on at 97C which would just increase the fan speed to medium if your temps got that high. Your Power FC is turning the fans on! You could have a thermoswitch that switches on at 80C, it still wouldn\'t turn the fans on!
unfortunatley for me i have a 1992 jdm rex and the only wiring diagram i have is for the 1994 lhd car usa and canada i believe and i would like to say its the same but ive tried to use it for some other faults i had and its soooo bloody different to mine :)
nope pfc is set higher than that. its the switch because i did back to back tests when i fitted it to make sure it was worth doing
sorry dude proof of the pudding and all that :)
We will have to agree to disagree, lol! I don\'t doubt your testing, our cars must be wired differently either from stock or yours has modified wiring between the fan relays. Without inspecting each others wiring harness we wont get to the bottom of this, as long as we\'re both happy with our fans operation its all that matters.:chat
Quote from: merlin2002;771770Thats the one I swapped out.... with that sensor unplgged the fans speed is at half speed with it pluged in is at full speed....as long as fans are actually on! as that sensor goes to relay 3
This test proves it is working correctly. When your fans come on at 105C, the FC thermoswitch (97C) will already be switched on and providing the fans with an extra ground so your fans will be on their medium speed setting as soon as they come on. When you unplug the thermoswitch, you are stopping the fans from having the extra ground and therefore your fans will slow down to the low speed setting. If your thermoswitch was broken it would have no effect on your fans at all, but with the fans slowing down when you unplug it and the fact the fans don\'t come on at 97C but 105C shows it is working as it should.
Quote from: DJ Tommo;771751^^^^^^
Ah someone who knows his stuff :) Useful and interesting info to know! Thanks PDale!
Cheers
Tom
Quote from: DJ Tommo;771768This is an issue i have and didnt know about the recall. Is it still possible to get it done?
Cheers
Tom
No probs Tom. I\'m not sure you can still get the recall done. Probably only worth doing if you are stock but your best bet is to find a decent Mazda dealer and ask them (easier said than done!)