Hi, everyone i\'m pretty new to this forum and just bought my first FD from the classifieds here last week! Hope I don\'t get off to a bad start on here saying this, but I bought the car with the engine conversion in mind! The car I bought does run but i\'ve no idea how well, there is no mot on the car and tbh I haven\'t even tried driving it yet! I think i\'ll get it compression tested as that seems the thing to do before selling the engine and box out of it.
Has anyone else on here carried out the swap? I know there is someone on driftworks with a 1jz FD and I have seen all the US sites, just wondering if someone on this forum has one already completed and running... possibly someone I could beg for advice when I can\'t get it running!
I don\'t think anyone here has done the swap, my bit of advice would be to speak with Craig at dynatorque, as they do engine swap on all sorts if cars and may have done one of these already. If you look in the general discussion section on this forum and read a thread titled twin turbo v8 you will be able to find his name there, i think it\'s tinker, there may even be a phone number on there as it is his build thread you will be looking at.
2jz in an FD. Sounds good to me but a few people might flame you for it so be warned! Lol.
There is a twin turbo 2nd build thread in rx7club.com in the engine swap forum, worth a look maybe
Hi,
Not many 2jz conversions that I\'ve seen. My FD was also a non runner bought for an LSx conversion.
Craig\'s website is http://www.dynotorque.co.uk/
Also you may find some info on http://www.norotors.com though it\'s primarily for the LSx conversions.
Hope I don\'t get flamed for it too much! Wouldn\'t be a good start for me on this forum! Cheers I will look into it... Don\'t suppose anyone knows what my engine and box are worth if they are both in good working order? I will also be selling the HKS intercooler that came with the car at some point!
All depends on compression really on the engine. Are you sure the 2jz isn\'t a downgrade from the rotor ? What kind of power levels are you looking at running with the engine ?
I can understand a V8 install to some extent because of the bucket loads of torque, bullet proof reliability and better economy. However it isn\'t a cheap swap.
Your just up the road from me, was the FD a local one? We may have a good history from a previous owner ! Good to see more springing up in the NW !
Shaun
I have recently purchased a project car also and have been looking at engine options. Did think about the 2jz engine but it has an iron block so would cause more front weight bias and upset the 50/50 handling of the car but if your not bothered about the handling it has good bhp, though Toyota do other aluminium block v8 engines.
There was an FD done by a Yank firm with a 1JZ swap doing the rounds in all the magazines last year. Called, imaginatively "1JZ swap" IIRC. Think you\'ll need to go over the other side of the pond for the best info, they like hideous oversized lazy boat anchor abortions of engines over there. I remember at least one build thread over on rx7club. A quick Google reveals several forums dedicated purely to shoehorning atrocious Toyota filth into all sorts of undeserving vehicles, so it shouldn\'t be too hard to find someone with info
If I remember correctly, it\'s not easy because the Toyota engine is a stupidly large gurt lump that\'s too long as well as too tall for an FD bay, so you need custom subframes and buggerage with the steering rack as well as a mutantly inflated bonnet just to fit the wretched freakish thing in. It will of course, mutilate the weight distribution and steering of the FD no matter how you manage to cram it in. Best of luck ;)
Quote from: shaunwil;770704All depends on compression really on the engine. Are you sure the 2jz isn\'t a downgrade from the rotor ? What kind of power levels are you looking at running with the engine ?
I can understand a V8 install to some extent because of the bucket loads of torque, bullet proof reliability and better economy. However it isn\'t a cheap swap.
Your just up the road from me, was the FD a local one? We may have a good history from a previous owner ! Good to see more springing up in the NW !
Shaun
Well Shaun I have a 400hp atf 2wd Skyline at the moment and i\'ve bought this as a bit of a project to upgrade to! I\'m looking for a reliable 550hp atf if that is possible without changing the cams...
Local! Lol... I wish... Picked the car up from Weymouth on a trailer, was for sale on here last week! Tbh think the ad is still in the for sale section as we speak!
I\'ve decided I mainly use this forum for Nik\'s replies, they are without a doubt the best around. It does seem that the Toyota lump could cause some problems, as asked previously why is it you want to change? The RE powerplant is a fantastic engine i (and many others) would suggest you have a play with it before you attempt to defocate (sp) that lovely FD chassis!
Ben
For example, here\'s one at random. Lovely job of polishing, his wife has big knockers, nice garden, but goddamn that engine looks wrong in that car, no matter how nice the subframes he had fabbed up are. http://myjzswap.com/forum/index.php?topic=38.0 Seems to be a UK one too
Why can\'t you just do a v8? At least that keeps some close facsimilie of weight distribution.
Cheers Ben lol
Quote from: Nik da Greek;770720There was an FD done by a Yank firm with a 1JZ swap doing the rounds in all the magazines last year. Called, imaginatively "1JZ swap" IIRC. Think you\'ll need to go over the other side of the pond for the best info, they like hideous oversized lazy boat anchor abortions of engines over there. I remember at least one build thread over on rx7club. A quick Google reveals several forums dedicated purely to shoehorning atrocious Toyota filth into all sorts of undeserving vehicles, so it shouldn\'t be too hard to find someone with info
If I remember correctly, it\'s not easy because the Toyota engine is a stupidly large gurt lump that\'s too long as well as too tall for an FD bay, so you need custom subframes and buggerage with the steering rack as well as a mutantly inflated bonnet just to fit the wretched freakish thing in. It will of course, mutilate the weight distribution and steering of the FD no matter how you manage to cram it in. Best of luck ;)
Thanks for not being too harsh on me! I\'m only looking for Toyota power for my project as they are relatively cheap and reliable for under 600hp. I like my GTSt, will be gutted to sell it! I like straight six engines and the Toyota way will be the easiest and most reliable route to take I think. I like the bonus of having that in a lighter (and seem to be really rust resistant) body so like the thought of combining the two, and obviously I know this won\'t be to everyones taste on here :-)
Quote from: rwdwiganer;770727Thanks for not being too harsh on me! I\'m only looking for Toyota power for my project as they are relatively cheap and reliable for under 600hp. I like my GTSt, will be gutted to sell it! I like straight six engines and the Toyota way will be the easiest and most reliable route to take I think. I like the bonus of having that in a lighter (and seem to be really rust resistant) body so like the thought of combining the two, and obviously I know this won\'t be to everyones taste on here :-)
Lol, I\'m (mostly) only joking with you, sorry :o. I have the utmost respect for anyone taking on that level of modification and making it work. It seems a bit of a shame to compromise an FD\'s handling and weighting so much, but I guess it\'s a plus it\'s not another one being broken and scrapped. The Toyota lump was built by Yamaha at least so it\'s one up over the Datsun lump in your Skybus :D
I did like that reply too! Tbh I think i\'m a bit biased towards a 2J, the LS V8\'s are pricey and don\'t seem to be that powerful unless it is a later LS V8 or an earlier one hit with a big money stick! I won\'t be using the car on track, just looking to build an exciting but reliable road car to replace my Skyline and that is far from the best handling rwd car on the road- but is entertaining!
Quote from: Nik da Greek;770731Lol, I\'m (mostly) only joking with you, sorry :o. I have the utmost respect for anyone taking on that level of modification and making it work. It seems a bit of a shame to compromise an FD\'s handling and weighting so much, but I guess it\'s a plus it\'s not another one being broken and scrapped. The Toyota lump was built by Yamaha at least so it\'s one up over the Datsun lump in your Skybus :D
Lol well tbh I think i\'m mad and for the occasional use I give my Skyline I may as well just keep the bloody thing! Cheap insurance, RB25s cost peanuts but need stronger internals for more power than mine is running now. Think I like the idea of making something different this time, and with more power and a weight saving over the GTSt should be fun... Yep thats one way of looking at it, i\'m sure there are many other people that would of broke the car for parts- seeing as I paid £1500 for it
Whats worse then sticking a V8 into a FD? yip sticking a 2JZ into it, I think I just threw up in my mouth, at least a LS V8 you have a chance of keeping a 50:50 weight distribution.
They did the 2JZ conversion in the states years ago, one yellow one gracing a cover of a jap mag over here, I found out later it had terrible understeer problems.
If you want to do something mad with a 2JZ stick it into a kit car like a caterham or a Radical clone
If you are looking for 500 hp reliably then personally stick with the rotary. It can be achieved, quite possibly cheaper than doing the conversion.
I\'m all for the swap but if you only want 500hp ( in my opinion that isn\'t that much hp ) a 2nd isn\'t the way to go. Now if you said 700+ then maybe.
Like a lot of the post above, handling will be complete poo unless you move It back, I\'m talking way back, if you don\'t will end up driving like you fat skybus.
Like I said in my first reply though, give Craig a ring. He will know best.
Quote from: Nik da Greek;770720A quick Google reveals several forums dedicated purely to shoehorning atrocious Toyota filth into all sorts of undeserving vehicles
^ that about sums it up
Why???I have tried very hard to control my emotions, but I am sorry I cant lolll Why 2JZ, Why not 20B???? or 26B..its a rotary powered car and only considered complete when it has a rotary in it.
Its your decision but it sounds to me that you have never driven a rotary powered car, Hence, I would advise that you should try rotary power before handing over your car to the butchers of RX7 lolll :) 500BHP can be easily accessible, try good tuners like WGT or Hayward Rotary or dragon performance..trust me you wont regret..
Sorry if I came across harsh...
Mir
Quote from: Nik da Greek;770726For example, here\'s one at random. Lovely job of polishing, his wife has big knockers, nice garden, but goddamn that engine looks wrong in that car, no matter how nice the subframes he had fabbed up are. http://myjzswap.com/forum/index.php?topic=38.0 Seems to be a UK one too
Why can\'t you just do a v8? At least that keeps some close facsimilie of weight distribution.
Cheers Ben lol
I lost interest after the first post of this thread, but after seeing you post nik something caught my eye and had to check your taste out, and i think your right :Laugh
Mir dont you own an epic 20b turbo?
Man speaks the truth - Still stand by what I said to you on dw :nod:
QuoteI spent the last week or so contemplating dropping a 1jz into my FD.
Realised that the reason I bought the car was for the rotary engine, otherwise id have bought a soarer or something similar :nod:
2jz would totally screw up the weight balance of the car - iirc its 50/50 standard but the 1jz is 60kg heavier. handling will end up crap!
Even with the Tech 2 Motorsports kit, you need to have an aftermarket bonnet, theres no escaping the height of a 1j/2j compared to a 13b :nod:
Good luck if you\'re serious, but my advice really would be to stick with the 13b :nod: If you want a 1j/2j buy a supra.
It\'ll be cheaper lol
Fd with a ....ed engine - £1000/1500
Decent 2jz - £1500 +
R154 (in good nick) £500+
(if you use it) Tech 2 motorsports swap kit - £2000 once its here and vat and duty paid
Tuning to get you to 600bhp - £1500+
To be honest - £1500-2000 EASY for other bits that you\'re going to need
Lets call it £6500 for all the parts - Then you\'re looking at spanner time you\'re going to need to put in, fabrication etc
It\'ll be a royal pain in the arse :nod:
Again, not dissing your idea chap, just wondering if you\'ve thought it all through :)
The 13b is a ....ing ACE engine - Nothing ive been in feels the same!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlFRGoutt_E
Constantly rising HP of a 13b, I think it\'s up to about 925hp now, and that\'s just the 2rotor, now imagine if it were a 3rotor!
7 second passes! Lets see \'yer 2JZ do them ;P
Quote from: RobMatthews;770770I lost interest after the first post of this thread, but after seeing you post nik something caught my eye and had to check your taste out, and i think your right :Laugh
Lol, Scott on 1jz swap dot com is gonna be wondering why his thread suddenly has loads of hits :D
Quote from: Lacey;770772http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlFRGoutt_E
Constantly rising HP of a 13b, I think it\'s up to about 925hp now, and that\'s just the 2rotor, now imagine if it were a 3rotor!
7 second passes! Lets see \'yer 2JZ do them ;P
Thanks Lacey..
3 rotor of Pac Performance has beaten a 1800 BHP 2JZ OF Gas Motorsports :WaveBye
Mir
You will need to remove the \'RX\' off the badge if you do decide to change engines, reason why I went for a rotary is due to saving £££s on forged internals and its easy to get silly power out of the engine as there aren\'t any silly valves in the way blocking the fuel and air mix!
Quote from: Mir;770775Thanks Lacey..
Welcome! :WaveBye
Quote from: rwdwiganer;770723Well Shaun I have a 400hp atf 2wd Skyline at the moment and i\'ve bought this as a bit of a project to upgrade to! I\'m looking for a reliable 550hp atf if that is possible without changing the cams...
Local! Lol... I wish... Picked the car up from Weymouth on a trailer, was for sale on here last week! Tbh think the ad is still in the for sale section as we speak!
I\'m only a couple of junctions up the M6 from you. Its surprising what you can do with the stock twins before they start to get iffy. A good setup with 350bhp on twins can give you huge pleasure !
These cars are so light and well balanced pub bhp figures aren\'t really needed as much. It only weighs 1250kg stock compared to 1600kg for a skyline !
Are you wanting it as a daily or weekend monster ?
Shaun
Quote from: Lacey;770780Welcome! :WaveBye
Bucket went away :D
Quote from: m1tch;770784Bucket went away :D
Heavy duty rubber mat almost got catapulted off camera too :D
That mat really didn\'t stop the car blackening the floor did it.... :p
Quote from: Nik da Greek;770726For example, here\'s one at random. Lovely job of polishing, his wife has big knockers, nice garden, but goddamn that engine looks wrong in that car, no matter how nice the subframes he had fabbed up are. http://myjzswap.com/forum/index.php?topic=38.0 Seems to be a UK one too
Why can\'t you just do a v8? At least that keeps some close facsimilie of weight distribution.
Cheers Ben lol
Having had a look at the pics and going back to mine it definitely sits higher and 6 or more inches further forward than an LS conversion. I would have doubts myself about fiting one if the car was for all round performance.
Just to stick mt 2penths worth in.
I personally prefer the 2JZ to the V8 to be honest at least the engine was designed after jesus was born.... and it doesn\'t matter what engine you replace the 13b with it\'s gonna knacker the weight distribution and handling anyway.
The 2JZ at least:
a) Makes a decent sound I am offically bored of V8\'s end of (I\'m also lumping v-twin or v4 bikes in here too).
b) Is a robust engine capable of some mega torque and power.
c) It\'s still an all JDM car which is very important if you\'re shallow like me!
Welcome to the forums by the way and good luck with the project if you go for it :Thumbsup!
Quote from: BlitzBoy;770742Whats worse then sticking a V8 into a FD? yip sticking a 2JZ into it, I think I just threw up in my mouth, at least a LS V8 you have a chance of keeping a 50:50 weight distribution.
An LS1 is nearly as long as a 2JZ - weight difference is negligable when you factor in accessories and fluids.
50:50 weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm, and the worse thing than stating things well out of context is to .... on someone\'s bonfire with misinformation!
If someone one wants a 2JZ, let them!
After buying a rolling shell I have spent the last few weeks researching engine conversions and have now narrowed it down to 2 viable inexpensive options (bearing in mind my neighbour is a toyota/lexus mechanic so getting some cheap work done one rebuild)
1, Toyota 1Jz engine, can be picked up for reasonable money, can produce high Hp figures easily and if you find one out of the right car they are hand built by Yamaha and fully forged from the factory also to fit this into the car all that is needed is for the rear half of the subframe to be removed and replaced with tubular steel a bit further back nothing major to any half decent fabricator.
2, Lexus/Toyota 1Uz Fe V8 this is a 4.0l V8 which if you get a 99 engine has vvti and 300 hp out of the box also with a few select modifications can easily hit 400hp with endless reliability. I have looked and you can get an engine and box for around £900 and have it fully forged for about the same again which would then be capable of 800hp.
I have been reading into this loads and neither is super easy but I will still end up with a 400+ bhp car that owes me less than 5k and I doubt very much i\'d be able to buy a working rotary car and hit those power figures for the same money.
Also when it comes to weight both of these conversions weigh LESS than the rotary in OEM form including gearbox
Quote from: Anh;770928An LS1 is nearly as long as a 2JZ - weight difference is negligable when you factor in accessories and fluids.
50:50 weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm, and the worse thing than stating things well out of context is to .... on someone\'s bonfire with misinformation!
If someone one wants a 2JZ, let them!
anybody can do what they like with their cars I dont care it belongs to them , This is a public forum and I can say my opinion, so if I want to p*** on someones bonfire I can, its a rotary forum after all so expect to be flamed when doing a piston conversion.
The LS is all aluminium, the 2JZ has an ali head and an iron block , the LS1 NA is lighter then the 2JZ and does not have the weight of the turbo ancillaries as well, and it is shorter then the 2JZ, the 2JZ is also taller, so where is the misinformation??
And 50:50 is important if you like to go round corners fast and dont want to understeer and go straight ahead into a hedge at speed.
Easy Blitzen,,, today you are really in a mood.. I hope I don\'t bump into you today!!! :) joking!!
:) I agree with you!!
Mir
Quote from: Anh;77092850:50 weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm, and the worse thing than stating things well out of context is to .... on someone\'s bonfire with misinformation!
yeah! you take that Enzo Ferrari! you\'ve been doing it wrong all this time!
the only reason i can think of for putting one of these engines in an FD is so that you can say "check out my fully sick JZ swap brah".
if you want affordable powers tune the rotary. if you want the same powers but with a bit more torque and reliability, put an LS in it (and get some pockets with a deep end).
Quote from: jackaleks;770940yeah! you take that Enzo Ferrari! you\'ve been doing it wrong all this time!
Yeah Colin Chapman what do you know about handling, 50:50 weight distribution is a crock of sh it apparently hahahaha :p:Thumbsup! :flamed
Quote from: BlitzBoy;770942Yeah Colin Chapman what do you know about handling, 50:50 weight distribution is a crock of sh it apparently hahahaha :p:Thumbsup! :flamed
Hahahah :rollin
I considered a 1jz swap until I realised all I wanted it for was hero points :D Also realised i only bought the damn car for saying - "yeh ive got a 1.3 but its as fast as a ferrari :D "
Quote from: Anh;770928An LS1 is nearly as long as a 2JZ - weight difference is negligable when you factor in accessories and fluids.
50:50 weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm, and the worse thing than stating things well out of context is to .... on someone\'s bonfire with misinformation!
If someone one wants a 2JZ, let them!
This is simply plain wrong on every point except the last one, although even that might be more accurately phrased as "if someone wants to take a perfectly balanced sportscar with a unique engine and render it pointless and dull putting a boat anchor that cursed plenty of ersatz mass-market alleged sportsters then let them."
An LS1 is nowhere near as long as a 2JZ... fairly obviously by the width of two cylinders, in fact. They also weigh not too much different from a 2 rotor lump with all the manifolds and turbo plus ancilliaries, and thus considerably less than a 2JZ.
To state that balanced weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm shows at least respectable grasp of lanugage but extremely poor understanding of motor vehicle dynamics.
To be honest, if you want to make yourself look daft on the internet, could you not just post a video of youself on YouTube with your c0ck out like everyone else and leave us here on the
Rotary forum alone? It\'d probably be better for all of us
The above is why I really like this forum. Nik your a star mate!
Quote from: shaunwil;770782I\'m only a couple of junctions up the M6 from you. Its surprising what you can do with the stock twins before they start to get iffy. A good setup with 350bhp on twins can give you huge pleasure !
These cars are so light and well balanced pub bhp figures aren\'t really needed as much. It only weighs 1250kg stock compared to 1600kg for a skyline !
Are you wanting it as a daily or weekend monster ?
Shaun
It\'s only going to be used as a weekend car tbh, my Skyline is 1370kg 2wd with just over 400hp atf... Looking for less weight and up to 600 hp atf with this project and it\'s something different! I\'ll be pressure testing the rotary at the weekend and putting the engine and box up for sale if anyone is interested?!... I don\'t hate rotary engines at all, but only bought the FD as they are much more rust resistant and lighter than the Nissans i\'m used to and one came up for sale! I wanted to tune a 2J for my RB25 replacement and could of put it in an S-body Nissan if they wern\'t so ....e :-) but got the car I wanted, even if what i\'m doing isn\'t to everyones taste...
Nik.... Go on mate.. Nice one!
Mir
Quote from: rwdwiganer;771016It\'s only going to be used as a weekend car tbh, my Skyline is 1370kg 2wd with just over 400hp atf... Looking for less weight and up to 600 hp atf with this project and it\'s something different! I\'ll be pressure testing the rotary at the weekend and putting the engine and box up for sale if anyone is interested?!... I don\'t hate rotary engines at all, but only bought the FD as they are much more rust resistant and lighter than the Nissans i\'m used to and one came up for sale! I wanted to tune a 2J for my RB25 replacement and could of put it in an S-body Nissan if they wern\'t so ....e :-) but got the car I wanted, even if what i\'m doing isn\'t to everyones taste...
Its your car and your choice what you do with it. When I stuck LPG on the FB I didn\'t get completely positive replies !
Definitely will be an interesting project for sure !
Shaun
I will keep an eye on this as I was thinking of something down the same route!
Shame the wrx engine is too wide for engine bay...short low engine
Rob
Someone should tell Ferrari they\'re doing it wrong :Giggle
Enzo Ferrari weigh dist. 43.9/56.1
458 Itallia weigh dist. 42/58
But I digest....
I think you should stick with the 2JZ it\'s different at least, just no more V8\'s.
And please for the love of all that is god and holy deffiniatly no flat four Sub(standard)aru engine, wait I think I\'ve just been sick in my mouth :2Rolleyes
Quote from: Lil-Steve;771092Someone should tell Ferrari they\'re doing it wrong :Giggle
Enzo Ferrari weigh dist. 43.9/56.1
458 Itallia weigh dist. 42/58
You will note the weight is more at the back not at the front on those Fezzas LOL
a 2JZ in a FD will be like 60/40 :Giggle understeer happyness
Quote from: BlitzBoy;771118You will note the weight is more at the back not at the front on those Fezzas LOL
a 2JZ in a FD will be like 60/40 :Giggle
It\'s alright I\'m not that stupid, at least not yet, my point was 50:50 weight isn\'t the be all and end all of handling performance, if it was Porsche would be in the drain by now (prays to dark gods).
If you shuffle a few bit\'s to the back of the car and mount the engine bang up against the firewall it won\'t be that bad I\'m sure. With the right spring rate ratio front to rear to even up the speed of weight transfer front and rear you\'d be able to iron it out a bit.
I reckon you\'d end up with 55/45 at worst if you spent the time and effort to sort it all out, thats about 65kilos more over the front axle, it won\'t handle the same but it\'ll still be better than most cars the low COG of the FD will help a lot too.
What about the guys that swap the 2jz into the silvia s15\'s for drifting? They don\'t seem to have understeer.:D:D:rollin:rollin
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;771139What about the guys that swap the 2jz into the silvia s15\'s for drifting? They don\'t seem to have understeer.:D:D:rollin:rollin
ermmm we are talking about the FD engine bay here not a Silvia lol
Haha smart arse. I was taking the p¡ss, would be ironic for a car that gets a 2jz (FD, silvia, chaser etc) and should experience understeer but it used for oversteer drifting?!?!? As I\'m sure the other cars where it is used for an engine swap will experience similar problems?
Anyway I do agree, putting this engine in an FD and expect it to go around corners the same just really does suck the big fat one. Best used for high power and going in a straight line. IMO
And what do you know about understeer anyway blitz? Your car only goes in straight lines?;):D:Thumbs-up
Hahaha, only joking.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;771139What about the guys that swap the 2jz into the silvia s15\'s for drifting? They don\'t seem to have understeer.:D:D:rollin:rollin
If you like the power over on an S15 with the 2J you\'d love an AE86 with a 650hp turbo\'d 20B, now thats funny! :chat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPfi-ZeQRM
I love how it pulls away wheelspin o\' plenty then it grips finally and f***s off. WANT
My fave bit of that vid is at 2.10.
"Aaaah 3 rotor"
I watch that at least once a week just for the comedy of not understanding Japanese and the only bit I do understand is the 3 rotor part.
The motorway bit is funny as it is smoking the tyres and is already probably doing 40-50 mph before it shifts down and smokes the tyres and the other corolla!
3 Rotor for the ultimate win.
Quote from: rwdwiganer;771016It\'s only going to be used as a weekend car tbh, my Skyline is 1370kg 2wd with just over 400hp atf... Looking for less weight and up to 600 hp atf with this project and it\'s something different! I\'ll be pressure testing the rotary at the weekend and putting the engine and box up for sale if anyone is interested?!... I don\'t hate rotary engines at all, but only bought the FD as they are much more rust resistant and lighter than the Nissans i\'m used to and one came up for sale! I wanted to tune a 2J for my RB25 replacement and could of put it in an S-body Nissan if they wern\'t so ....e :-) but got the car I wanted, even if what i\'m doing isn\'t to everyones taste...
Your on the right route then as my car after the initial conversion weighed 1181 kgs on some corner scales. For the record the weight was 51.5% bias towards the front on the standard suspension. To achieve that I removed the aircon, carpet and fitted an AtomicRex manual rack so no PS. I will probably fit an electric assisted steering column so add another 5-10 kgs back on but it\'s in the middle of the car.
So yep the 2JZ would be easier to get 500 - 600 BHP I guess, not having any experience with them. I\'m currently at 415BHP and should be able to gain another 70 BHP with a cam, valve springs and some titanium bits but to comfortably break 500 BHP would probably require new or flowed cylinder heads plus a remap which starts to get pricey.
My 1JZ made 511 bhp, and that was only with different turbo\'s, slightly altered cam timing, ECU and injectors.
Toyota engines are so unbelievably easy to get more power out of, and they won\'t give in either.
The 2J is awesome. Easy peasy power and massively strong internals as stock. Can sound lovely too with a nice exhaust.
I singled my last one with a Holset ( a real Holse not one of those GS racing things) and the power hits hard.
Quote from: jackaleks;770940yeah! you take that Enzo Ferrari! you\'ve been doing it wrong all this time!
the only reason i can think of for putting one of these engines in an FD is so that you can say "check out my fully sick JZ swap brah".
if you want affordable powers tune the rotary. if you want the same powers but with a bit more torque and reliability, put an LS in it (and get some pockets with a deep end).
Well someone else carrying out the swap may be just doing it just for that! I want a rwd car (that doesnt rust) with the reliable power of a single-turbo converted Supra- might I add with less weight... Oh and less than a 15k price tag... I don\'t see the LS as an option, unless it is (a rather expensive) later LS varient or an earlier engine with tuning- and that still has quite a price tag. As a complete car for on track, or as a reliable alternative to a rotary in an RX7 I can see the reasoning for using one though...
Quote from: bimbleuk;771204Your on the right route then as my car after the initial conversion weighed 1181 kgs on some corner scales. For the record the weight was 51.5% bias towards the front on the standard suspension. To achieve that I removed the aircon, carpet and fitted an AtomicRex manual rack so no PS. I will probably fit an electric assisted steering column so add another 5-10 kgs back on but it\'s in the middle of the car.
So yep the 2JZ would be easier to get 500 - 600 BHP I guess, not having any experience with them. I\'m currently at 415BHP and should be able to gain another 70 BHP with a cam, valve springs and some titanium bits but to comfortably break 500 BHP would probably require new or flowed cylinder heads plus a remap which starts to get pricey.
Cheers for the support!
Well thats my plan! Unsure of which manifold at this stage as the (cheap ;-) XS Power manifold may not fit and I may have to look into using a Treadstone cast manifold. GTX35r turbo 0.82 (t61), Bosch 044 pump, 850cc injectors and Sard regulator... Should get me to where i\'m looking for! Has anyone else had any problems with the exhaust manifold actually fitting in?!
Quote from: bimbleuk;771204Your on the right route then as my car after the initial conversion weighed 1181 kgs on some corner scales. For the record the weight was 51.5% bias towards the front on the standard suspension. To achieve that I removed the aircon, carpet and fitted an AtomicRex manual rack so no PS. I will probably fit an electric assisted steering column so add another 5-10 kgs back on but it\'s in the middle of the car.
So yep the 2JZ would be easier to get 500 - 600 BHP I guess, not having any experience with them. I\'m currently at 415BHP and should be able to gain another 70 BHP with a cam, valve springs and some titanium bits but to comfortably break 500 BHP would probably require new or flowed cylinder heads plus a remap which starts to get pricey.
Sorry, am I right your running a 1JZ in yours?...
^^nope corvette lump :-)
Quote from: rwdwiganer;771234Sorry, am I right your running a 1JZ in yours?...
As Rob says I have two cylinder heads but only one cam = LS V8
I worked out my parts costs to around 9K (inc the RX7) to do the basic conversion and as I did most of the work ther wasn\'t much labour on top. However after adding up the extras such as flush headlights, composite seat, manual rack, pedal box, GAZ suspension, poly bushes etc. I\'m certainly over £12K.
If anything the cost of the LS engine has gone up unfortunately due to demand in the US and short supply over here. So if I was to do the conversion again my short list would be the following.
LS3, 1JZ/2JZ, 1UZ-FE & AJP V6
Out of those in stock format the LS3 has the most power. The 2JZ has the biggest potential. The 1U-ZFE would be the cheapest to buy but the AJP V6 has the most up to date design.
So sticking to NA as I\'ve done both turbos and superchargers many times the AJP V6 is now my personal choice.
Quote from: Nik da Greek;770965To state that balanced weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm shows at least respectable grasp of lanugage but extremely poor understanding of motor vehicle dynamics.
I said the 50:50 weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm, are the spring rates going to be equal? What about with driver on board and fuel? What about the distribution during cornering? Corner exit? Braking? What about the load distribution when you take account of lift or downforce? Different load distributions will alter the way how a car corners, brakes or accelerates, there is no ideal or "balanced" number - it is not as simple as that.
I will stop there because ...
QuoteTo be honest, if you want to make yourself look daft on the internet, could you not just post a video of youself on YouTube with your c0ck out like everyone else and leave us here on the Rotary forum alone? It\'d probably be better for all of us
Now I don\'t need to address every sentence of bolleux you just posted at me, simply because you have demonstrated that resorting to personal jibes have completely undermined whatever arguement regarding the topic you are trying to make here.
I dont need to tell you that you\'re wrong, you can do that yourself if you actually calm down and use your brain before posting.
Regards...
I was perfectly calm, and I did use my brain. That\'s why my reply was funny, unlike yours that tbh was so dull I can\'t even remember the middle part ten seconds after reading it :Snoring.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by again, don\'t let the door hit you as you leave :WaveBye
Quote from: Nik da Greek;771407I was perfectly calm, and I did use my brain. That\'s why my reply was funny, unlike yours that tbh was so dull I can\'t even remember the middle part ten seconds after reading it :Snoring.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by again, don\'t let the door hit you as you leave :WaveBye
Nothing worse than a bad comedian.
Quote from: Anh;771410Nothing worse than a bad comedian.
I dunno, I can think of a few things worse... bad losers for a start :rolleyes: Then a pretty broad spectrum of worse things with like paedophiles at one end and people who desecrate perfectly good RX-7s by putting stupidly unsuited engines in them at the other :Nono!
I think the term weight distribution is misleading. To be totally correct it\'s a 50:50 mass distribution front to rear, laterally you\'ve got a slight issue with the driver on one side but otherwise it\'s pretty close and since the distribution along the long axis of the car is far more significant in terms of performance I\'d say it\'s relevant. As for spring rates, they\'re going to be better able to perform as required because they\'re not having to compensate for unbalanced mass, similarly for cornering differences. In fact since it\'s a road car you\'re probably going to give it spring rates and damper settings to ensure that in extremis it loses grip at the front first rather than at the rear because if you do lose grip and cannot regain it, putting the front of a car into something like a lamp-post is infinitely preferable for passenger safety than going into it sideways or backwards.
As for the whole engine swap idea. I am not one to mess with the rotary engine but I can see the appeal of a V8 conversion in an RX although it creates a very different animal, the LS V8 is a powerful, compact powerplant which is often hampered by shoddy vehicles to run in but has plenty of power potential. Putting it into an RX7 creates something interesting as you\'re putting a different compact powerful motor in to replace another one. Putting a 2JZ into an RX7 is just odd as far as I am concerned, principally for the following reason, The Toyota Supra. It\'s a different animal from the RX7 to be sure but whereas the LS V8 could have come from a pick up or a large saloon, to get a 2JZ you\'re pulling apart a Supra or an Aristo or something equally interesting. Surely if you want a big power 2JZ it would make more sense in a Supra? Especially since although it doesn\'t handle as well as an RX7 the Supra has been designed to cope with a 2JZ from the outset and I reckon that an RX7 with a 2JZ would probably be no better handling than a Supra anyway.
Quote from: Anh;771404I said the 50:50 weight distribution is a meaningless paradigm, are the spring rates going to be equal? What about with driver on board and fuel? What about the distribution during cornering? Corner exit? Braking? What about the load distribution when you take account of lift or downforce? Different load distributions will alter the way how a car corners, brakes or accelerates, there is no ideal or "balanced" number - it is not as simple as that.
.
Yes agreed on all those variables as well, but lets be honest most people who do engine conversions will not bother about changing spring rates , damper settings, load\\weight distribution etc etc.
They will just plonk the engine in by hook or by crook and say job done
They will keep the same suspension setup , weight distribution etc etc as the stock setup which is setup for the rotary as Mazda designed, hence why most engine conversions will understeer into a hedge lol
And if they did do it properly eg moving the 2jz further back, sitting the engine lower, custom subframe,custome spec coilover suspension, sump, redistributing ancliaries and the like,corner weighting etc etc, it would cost a pretty penny and it would be cheaper by miles by keeping the rotary and modifying correctly with a single turbo conversion to 500bhp
Quote from: Nik da Greek;771417I dunno, I can think of a few things worse... bad losers for a start :rolleyes: Then a pretty broad spectrum of worse things with like paedophiles at one end and people who desecrate perfectly good RX-7s by putting stupidly unsuited engines in them at the other :Nono!
What has peadophilia has to do with a 2JZ engine swap?
Honestly you have issues and trying disguise it as internet wit is a bit sad IMO.
Regards ...
Quote from: BlitzBoy;771426Yes agreed on all those variables as well, but lets be honest most people who do engine conversions will not bother about changing spring rates , damper settings, load\\weight distribution etc etc.
They will just plonk the engine in by hook or by crook and say job done
But that is not down to you to dictate though?. At the end of the day, not everyone will want the last vestiges of steering response, sharp yaw behavior handling - that is a subjective matter.
The 2JZ (or any decent inline 6) will give that inline 6 sound and the smooth surging power delivery of one, if someone wants that in combination of the FD\'s body, then why not?
QuoteThey will keep the same suspension setup , weight distribution etc etc as the stock setup which is setup for the rotary as Mazda designed, hence why most engine conversions will understeer into a hedge lol
And if they did do it properly eg moving the 2jz further back, sitting the engine lower, custom subframe,custome spec coilover suspension, sump, redistributing ancliaries and the like,corner weighting etc etc, it would cost a pretty penny and it would be cheaper by miles by keeping the rotary and modifying correctly with a single turbo conversion to 500bhp
Understeer is not caused by having large engines mounted at the front, it is caused by loadings and the contact patch sizes of the front relative to the rears and this variates when you are accelerating or braking.
Use wider front tyres, you reduce the slip angles and increase contact patch area. Contact patch area will not give you more grip since you got more mass to deal with, but it will not lose grip (understeer) as you have more mass to load that extra contact patch area with.
But at the end of the day, if someone just wants a 2JZ for the sake of having it, then the discussion here about handling is more or less now moot.
Understeer isn\'t caused by just having large engines at the front, but loadings on the front are caused by large engines at the front and running larger wheels and tyres increases your unsprung mass and rotating masses which also compromises the suspension behaviour.
As you say if they want a 2JZ for the sake of having a 2JZ then it\'s all good. But that\'s about the only reason to have one over a 13b, a 20b or an LS.
Quote from: Will66;771421I think the term weight distribution is misleading. To be totally correct it\'s a 50:50 mass distribution front to rear, laterally you\'ve got a slight issue with the driver on one side but otherwise it\'s pretty close and since the distribution along the long axis of the car is far more significant in terms of performance I\'d say it\'s relevant. As for spring rates, they\'re going to be better able to perform as required because they\'re not having to compensate for unbalanced mass, similarly for cornering differences. In fact since it\'s a road car you\'re probably going to give it spring rates and damper settings to ensure that in extremis it loses grip at the front first rather than at the rear because if you do lose grip and cannot regain it, putting the front of a car into something like a lamp-post is infinitely preferable for passenger safety than going into it sideways or backwards.
As for the whole engine swap idea. I am not one to mess with the rotary engine but I can see the appeal of a V8 conversion in an RX although it creates a very different animal, the LS V8 is a powerful, compact powerplant which is often hampered by shoddy vehicles to run in but has plenty of power potential. Putting it into an RX7 creates something interesting as you\'re putting a different compact powerful motor in to replace another one. Putting a 2JZ into an RX7 is just odd as far as I am concerned, principally for the following reason, The Toyota Supra. It\'s a different animal from the RX7 to be sure but whereas the LS V8 could have come from a pick up or a large saloon, to get a 2JZ you\'re pulling apart a Supra or an Aristo or something equally interesting. Surely if you want a big power 2JZ it would make more sense in a Supra? Especially since although it doesn\'t handle as well as an RX7 the Supra has been designed to cope with a 2JZ from the outset and I reckon that an RX7 with a 2JZ would probably be no better handling than a Supra anyway.
Lol, yes I could describe an Aristo as interesting... but what a waste of that magnificent engine ;-) coupled to a 2 tonne US-style cruiser, complete with air-con and an \'i\'m overweight and too fat to change with stick\' box...
Buying a Supra would be \'easier\' but conveniently I am good friends with the owner of an engineering company, and this to him is like playing with lego compared to previous projects he has carried out. A \'BPU\' Supra for 10k?... No thankyou. I\'d just keep the 2wd Datsun.
It\'s funny how every body would never put a heavy engine in a car but are quite happy to run stretched tyres,wrong geometry,cheap wrong rate springs and shocks,cheap .... tyres, people are never going to agree on these conversions etc but I wish they would get there facts right ie engines made pre Jesus the ls is a newer design than the rotary if you are being picky , and longer than a straight six !! Have you ever looked in a engine bay , out of interest I have fitted a ls1 into a supra for a guy , you can stand in front of the engine !! . Fds can suffer from under steer anyway but I have never had problems but I run good tyres and I don\'t stretch them "to look good or fit the wrong offset on the car", when wiff bits ran there car in time attack they suffered badly from understeer still rotary powered .
There is only one way to prove this argument, go build it, and beat us around the track...
The year I did TOTB mine was the quickest over all three sections and craig wins time attack did very well in time attack , but you all love v8s now there is the 2jz to hate !!!!!:Thumbs-up
can someone remind me to the name of this forum again...???
I just read this whole thread thinking some entertainment factor may arise.... afraid not....:Nono!
can someone link the pistonjockeysclub.com pretty please!
Quote from: Carbon RX;772515can someone remind me to the name of this forum again...???
I just read this whole thread thinking some entertainment factor may arise.... afraid not....:Nono!
can someone link the pistonjockeysclub.com pretty please!
The name of this forum is Mazda
ROTARY club :rollin
Mir
Quote from: Anh;771431Understeer is not caused by having large engines mounted at the front, it is caused by loadings and the contact patch sizes of the front relative to the rears and this variates when you are accelerating or braking.
Maybe you should reword that, large long engines are one of the causes I did not say they were the only cause of understeer.
A heavy long engine that goes across the front axle/hubs and that is not confined before the front axle/hubs will have an effect on steering, as some of its weight is over this point. Its simple physics :Hammer
Yes you can negate the effects with suspension setup etc etc
I also said the original poster can do what the hell they want with their car, but I said dont expect not to be flamed on a rotary forum for doing it.
You talk about the smooth surging power delivery of a inline 6, what do you think a rotary is??, you can not get smoother then a rotary lol
An LS is a better choice for an engine conversion then a 2JZ as it is more compact and can be mounted before the front axle quite easily , but still I rather a Rotary then a V8 anyway :D
Quote from: Carbon RX;772515can someone remind me to the name of this forum again...???
I just read this whole thread thinking some entertainment factor may arise.... afraid not....:Nono!
can someone link the pistonjockeysclub.com pretty please!
+1
I agree with everything Scotty just said!
...so, uh, when are we going to see the first Diesel rx7? you know, because rotaries have no torque.
Torque\'s for Tractors!
yip torque is for trucks,buses, heavy bricks like supras lol they need all that torque to shift their lardy arses :D
F1 cars only produce 250 to 300 foot pounds of torque,big torque not needed as they are quite light
although, you need lots of ft-lbs to do this:
(http://www.marshu.com/images-website/collection-pictures/car-wrecks-crashes-accidents/car-wheel-stand.jpg)
i mean, come oooon, wheel stands are cool :cool
:rollin:rollin:rollin
wheel stands are tres cool :D
By even "feeble, torqueless" rotaries managed wheel stands. Blitzboy was getting close with his launches at Japshow and Chris Impey lifts his front wheels until at least 100 feet down the 1/4 mile.
Quote from: Will66;772596By even "feeble, torqueless" rotaries managed wheel stands. Blitzboy was getting close with his launches at Japshow and Chris Impey lifts his front wheels until at least 100 feet down the 1/4 mile.
taking the .... with the torque thing :p i\'d much rather have usable power than a bazillionty torques that just spin the wheels and twist the chassis.
saw the pics of Blitz\'s FD lifting the front wheels, always looks impressive taking off!
Question to everyone what\'s best a fd with a v8 , more power, better on fuel , reliable or break and scrap another FD ? How many have been scrapped in the last couple of years alone . I "saved " 16 so far
I love V8 RX-7s. There, I\'ve finally said it :o. Perhaps I should add the caveat that I love sorted V8 RX-7s. Having been priviledged to drive Andy\'s DynoTorque-built car I think that it\'s an incredibly convincing vehicle, and I\'d love one of my own. Just not if it were my only RX-7. Awesome car, just not quite as awesome as fire breathing single tubby rotor motor on full honk.
Toyota engines, however, are best left powering boats around. Or maybe even mooring them :rolleyes:.....
Quote from: tinker-27;772638Question to everyone what\'s best a fd with a v8 , more power, better on fuel , reliable or break and scrap another FD ? How many have been scrapped in the last couple of years alone . I "saved " 16 so far
No disrespect, but we have to define the word "saved" because putting a piston engine into an Fd means, in my dictiionary "death of an RX7".. So as such to me you are not saving an RX7 lolll:Ladys-man. Because I would rather see an RX7 in a scrap yard than seeing it being butchered at the back street garages....:chat. I am sure your garage is not a back street garage :bandit
So, putting a piston Engine in an RX7 is not saving an RX7 but destorying an RX7 "even more" and we have had already enough of it.... 16 OMG......
Mir
Bet the guy who started this thread wishes he hadn\'t.
I think to conclude - If you are intent on swapping the rotary with a piston engine, i\'d go for a V8 as it seems more plausable than trying the Toyota swap and people are a lot more knowledgable on said swap. Seems also that the amount of work/cash/sheer time it will take to get round all the obsticals from the JZ switch you\'d be 100x better off with an LS engine.
Failing that... Tune that rotary and i guarantee you won\'t regret it! :Giggle
I have to say i\'m with Mir here completely,
If you want a V8 for the reasons previously mentioned go buy a yank tank and treat yourself..
Once a rare and precious FD has had its heart removed with a bulky lump of metal the chances of that vehicle ever returning to greatness is almost definitely lost! so it might as well be scrapped for the heritage that car ONCE had is most definitely destroyed!
down with ALL piston transplants get yourself another car to ruin....
V8 V6 or whatever, it don\'t matter to me.
you carry on scrapping them and i will carry on saving them and one day we will out number you !!! mind you most of you love the fd so much you are not even members of the club ..
So now it is coming down to a membership issue, isn\'t it?? out number us??????? I think at the moment piston FDs are out numbered by Rotary FDs, So, this statement is nothing but a good dream.... unless fulfiled. I wish you Good Luck with it. :)
At least us Rotary owners are very reasonable, we have never said that Rotary FDs have out numbered Piston Fds...because we know its a fact and it will remain a strong fact lollll
Mir
whoa, getting a bit heated now :p
at the end of the day an FD is a great car because of the whole package, not just the powerplant. i\'ve got no problem with the LS swap, it makes sense... you get a great chassis with a reliable and easily developed engine. it\'s not a better or worse solution than a rotary powerplant, just a different one!
JZ swap on the other hand, total waste of time, if you\'re going to go piston at least do it properly :D
Is this the wrong time to announce I\'m putting a 2ltr Audi diesel in mine? :Thumbs-up
Good luck to the original poster, no engine conversion is an easy task, and neither is wading through the arguments such engine conversions cause on this site :Ladys-man
Quote from: od404;772780Is this the wrong time to announce I\'m putting a 2ltr Audi diesel in mine? :Thumbs-up
Oh crap... :rollin
Hopefully no-one\'s noticed.... :rolleyes:
pffffthtlthlhlhlthtlhlthlht!!!!
audi 2.0 turbo diesel? really?!
surely you want Vauxhall\'s 1.9cdti!
:burnout
i love rotarys but at the same time i love v8s:Thumbsup!
Since the R in RX7 stands for Rotary, surely you should call an RX7 fitted with a V8 a "V8x7" or a "V56" and one fitted with a 2jz a 2jzx7?
Like all who against the conversion you don\'t have experience of both :Nono!
\'Ruin\' ??? Realy? V8 RX7\'s rock mate end of. They might be different but they are still very much a \'7\'.
Rotary ones rock too which is why I stuck with my singled one (my third RX7) and I do more miles each and every month than most owners do in a year (is there a Shell garage smiley?)
Craig\'s V8 converted cars are brilliant. I made my choice but have nothing but respect for this alternative, as do most (all?) who have more experience of both than looking at some pics on the internet and getting all keyboard drunk :rollin
Quote from: Carbon RX;772709I have to say i\'m with Mir here completely,
If you want a V8 for the reasons previously mentioned go buy a yank tank and treat yourself..
Once a rare and precious FD has had its heart removed with a bulky lump of metal the chances of that vehicle ever returning to greatness is almost definitely lost! so it might as well be scrapped for the heritage that car ONCE had is most definitely destroyed!
down with ALL piston transplants get yourself another car to ruin....
V8 V6 or whatever, it don\'t matter to me.
Double post sorry.
Quote from: stylus350;772870Like all who against the conversion you don\'t have experience of both :Nono!
\'Ruin\' ??? Realy? V8 RX7\'s rock mate end of. They might be different but they are still very much a \'7\'.
Rotary ones rock too which is why I stuck with my singled one (my third RX7) and I do more miles each and every month than most owners do in a year (is there a Shell garage smiley?)
Craig\'s V8 converted cars are brilliant. I made my choice but have nothing but respect for this alternative, as do most (all?) who have more experience of both than looking at some pics on the internet and getting all keyboard drunk :rollin
Oh yea ive only looked at RX7\'s in pictures on the internet dreaming of those lovely butchered V8x7\'s... haha
Joker! dont get so upset by my own opinion and have to get personal as you clearly dont know me which im very pleased to acknowledge :WaveBye
I think we should let this thread go back to the original 2jz swap as the v8 thing has been done time and time again good look with your build and don\'t let people talk you out of doing what you want with your car and your money , it is only a car after all
Quote from: jackaleks;772751whoa, getting a bit heated now :p
at the end of the day an FD is a great car because of the whole package, not just the powerplant. i\'ve got no problem with the LS swap, it makes sense... you get a great chassis with a reliable and easily developed engine. it\'s not a better or worse solution than a rotary powerplant, just a different one!
JZ swap on the other hand, total waste of time, if you\'re going to go piston at least do it properly :D
I don\'t agree! It all depends what the car is going to be used for. Track use, obviously as Tinker has proved the V8 is the way to go. Try picking an LSV8 engine and box up for 2JZ/R154 money, it just isn\'t going to happen unless I go out and steal a Monaro!
For a reliable 600hp atf in a lightweight chassis I disagree, I will be building this \'Mazota 2JZ\' ;-) and will be ringing Tinker at some point no doubt, I just know i\'m going to get stuck with something!
I think this should end at the end of the drag strip and/or a racetrack. I would be most interested to see which one goes round it quickest given comparable investment and power.