Hi everyone,
I will be fitting a T88 at some point and running about 1.2-1.4 bar of boost so should be running about 500bhp or so, fueling that will be fitted so far:
2 x OEM 550cc primary injectors
2 x Bosch 1680cc secondary injectors
Aeromotive FPR
KG billet rails
Aeroquip AN fitting
Braided lines
All the above will be fitted in a parallel setup as below:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/MODS/FUEL/pararail.jpg
I do have a Walbro 255 replacing the 20 year old OEM pump for my stock setup and stock turbo, but will be changing out pumps for the bigger fuel requirement.
I might also fit a 3rd rail if needd with the spare 550cc injectors I would have when fitting the larger injectors.
I am thinking twin in tank Bosch 044s to a single hard line to the engine bay and setup as shown above in parallel.
Would that setup be ok? I have seen a T78 powered drift FD fitted with 4 Bosch 044s and a swirl pot but I think that was partly overkill and for show for the boot lol
What would everyones suggestions be on pumps? I am guessing a single 044 won\'t be up to it?
for 500bhp a single 044 is more then enough, on a rotary a single 044 maxes out at around 550bhp.
So twin 044s more then enough to allow for growth for power
Quote from: BlitzBoy;769519for 500bhp a single 044 is more then enough, on a rotary a single 044 maxes out at around 550bhp.
So twin 044s more then enough to allow for growth for power
I would prefer to have too much fuel, than to run at max, not sure how much power that T88 on a bridgeported engine will make lol would it be best to change the fuel hard pipe under the car as well for a larger bore pipe?
Would fitting 2 x 044s into a Y piece going into a single hard line be ok?
Make sure you build in some form of redundancy. What happens if one of the pumps goes down? You wouldnt know! Then you run lean!
Quote from: AtomicRex;769561Make sure you build in some form of redundancy. What happens if one of the pumps goes down? You wouldnt know! Then you run lean!
What would you suggest? I will be running meth/water injection above 1bar of boost or so and its why I am looking at getting 2 pumps rather than just a single massive pump lol
Could I perhaps run with the Walbro pump where it is in the stock hard line, and then add in the 2 Bosch 044s on a seperate larger hard line? I could then switch on the Walbro as a 3rd pump to boost fuel flow whenever I decide to go for some boost?
What would everyone suggest?
well i assume you will be running with a wideband, if your concerned you could also have a fuel pressure gauge with an alarm if the pressure drops below a certain psi but then thinking about it, it would need to be linked to a boost gauge for it to know its at a lower fuel pressure than it should be at a certain boost level.
but to be honest you should be monitoring afr when on boost anyway so if one pump starts failing you will still have the other to drive home with.
I wouldnt run 3 fuel pumps incase one breaks, if one goes down then you will just have to run less boost until you can get it replaced.
im gonna be running 2x044s on my car, but then ill probably run meth injection on top so wont really need the flow they will provide, but like you say, rather to much than to little.
im running 2 seperate fuel lines to the engine -8 lines.........now if your joining them together id run one single -10, people may think this is rather big, but again if you ever go for racefuel and 2bar, you know your covered.
when do you need a fuel setup done, there might be some pics of my setup in a few weeks, im gonna run them under the car, as i dont mind engine/transmission noise but fuel pump whine will probably drive me daft, plus my fuel tank has a built in swirlpot under the car(got pics of my tank if your thinking of changing)...you keeping standard tank?
Quote from: turbotoaster;770215well i assume you will be running with a wideband, if your concerned you could also have a fuel pressure gauge with an alarm if the pressure drops below a certain psi but then thinking about it, it would need to be linked to a boost gauge for it to know its at a lower fuel pressure than it should be at a certain boost level.
but to be honest you should be monitoring afr when on boost anyway so if one pump starts failing you will still have the other to drive home with.
I wouldnt run 3 fuel pumps incase one breaks, if one goes down then you will just have to run less boost until you can get it replaced.
im gonna be running 2x044s on my car, but then ill probably run meth injection on top so wont really need the flow they will provide, but like you say, rather to much than to little.
im running 2 seperate fuel lines to the engine -8 lines.........now if your joining them together id run one single -10, people may think this is rather big, but again if you ever go for racefuel and 2bar, you know your covered.
when do you need a fuel setup done, there might be some pics of my setup in a few weeks, im gonna run them under the car, as i dont mind engine/transmission noise but fuel pump whine will probably drive me daft, plus my fuel tank has a built in swirlpot under the car(got pics of my tank if your thinking of changing)...you keeping standard tank?
Yeah I have a wideband linked into a Greddy E-manage ultimate that can flag up any issues etc, I will be running an OEM tank, but I know 2 x 044s can fit in the intank, what are your fuel lines made of? Just braided fuel lines under the car?
So just to recap, should I go with:
Twin intank Bosch 044s
AN 10 single hard line
Parallel fuel system
I will also have WI which I am thinking maybe a 50/50 mix
What other safe guards should I think about? The mapping will basically masivly richen the fueling if the boost climbs too high.
dependant on how you mix the water and meth can depend on what petrol dependance your engine has.
the more meth you add to the mix, the more that is used as fuel so the less petrol you will need to add, which means you dont need dual pumps, big injectors etc.
Personally the more meth you can add to the mix the better, yes you can run loads of boost on either pure water or meth but its extra properties of meth that i prefer.
in regards of your mapping, say you have you map done for 1.2bar at 11.3:1 afr
you want on the map point 1.25bar+ for it to be 10.2, this way if you do go above the 1.2bar at least it will be rich enough that it wont pop, plus it going dramaticly rich will kill some power enough for you hopefully to notice and back off
of course the amount of boost you will run will depend on how aggressive you are on ignition, inlet temps and meth/h20 to petrol mix.
if i was running water/meth on a single id be aiming for 1.5bar, but then i went to 1.4bar with no water injection at all.
Boost levels will be 1.2 bar, with 1.4 bar possibly on scramble boost.
Here is what I have found with boost on rotaries:
0.6bar - stock FC
0.9bar - stock FD
1 bar - safe all day every day
1.2 bar - safe max without any issues with engine life
1.4 bar - still ok but engine life slightly affected
1.4+ bar - engine life decreases the higher the boost from here
Personally I don\'t need to run big boost, its why I have a T88, will run the larger turbo at a lower boost so I don\'t stress the engine, plus with the rotary\'s exhaust gas flow (especially if BPed) it will stay on its efficiency island.
I don\'t ever plan on running more than 1.4Bar, 1.2Bar will be plently to scare me lol
well they say, life begins at 1bar!!
for me its not really the extra power that i like, its the torque that you gain by running more boost.
a good example of this is robrs vs james williday.
robrs is at 1.8bar so makes 700bhp and 552lbs of torque
james is at 0.8bar and makes 670bhp but only around 400lbs of torque,
both are quick over the quarter mile but with the added boost comes the torque.
yes in theory james engine is under less stress but for me the extra torque is worth it.
again if you aim is 500bhp then turn the boost up until it reaches that figure then leave it.
are you using bp rew plates or bt plates.......fd inlet?
Engine is FC housings, FD rotors, FC inlet - there is an FC running at 850bhp with the OEM FC inlet manifold, I might fit a larger TB though (single plate ones)
Right, I have a Tomei 280LPH pump on its way - I believe the 044s flow 300LPH?
Would it work ok with the Tomei pump in tank and then put the Bosch pump inline from the tank outlet to the hard pipe?
Looking at this calulator it says I should only need 227lph pump with my setup @ 18PSI supporting close to 500RWHP:
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/fuel_system/calcs.html