Just a random find..
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/255619_208161545892384_114570175251522_548626_3217300_n.jpg)
from here Rotary PR:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=208161545892384&set=pu.114570175251522&type=1&pid=548626&id=114570175251522
Lol, surely not...
Wow, low end torque problem now non existent!! Lol
Only way an RX8 can keep up with a 7....
With that many turbos it could keep up with the NASA space shuttle on re entry!
Quote from: m1tch;767907Only way an RX8 can keep up with a 7....
Funny, it\'s the 7s that struggle keeping up with me on track!
surely that doesn\'t work thats just sad.
Thats bonkers. must be a nightmare to tune
Adam
Quote from: Will66;767920Funny, it\'s the 7s that struggle keeping up with me on track!
That\'s because they\'re on their cool down lap. Hehehe
Hardly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNjEopQWfM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNjEopQWfM)
Apart from the time attack car.
Probably worried that they would be black flagged if they went full throttle due to the noise? hehe :D
Quote from: m1tch;767940Probably worried that they would be black flagged if they went full throttle due to the noise? hehe :D
Good Excuse!
RX-8 ~ 1300kg
RX-7 ~ 1100kg
Any "win" is most liekly down to drivers not trying :)
Trackdays are never a good measure as nobody ever really knows how hard ( or not ) the other person tries. It\'s usually the kids who use youtube as "evidence" and 99/100 when checked the other person wasn\'t on it when filming.
What competition times have you with the \'8 Will ?
Put my hand up to rotorheid\'s RX-7 being WAY faster than an \'8 could even dream about :( Tested on rounds of Scottish Sprint and hillclimb championship where both were trying best !
They are both good cars. Especially this weekend on the anniversary of the 1991 win :)
VERY annoyed that Eurosport gave all of 30 secs coverage of the car today :(
now now boys.. play nice.. lets settle this on the black top.
i wouldnt be surprised if 7\'s hgave trouble keeping up with 8. but so many factors to consider.
There no debate you can\'t beat power to weight. Lol
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;767978There no debate you can\'t beat power to weight. Lol
Actually - even that isn\'t enough - good breaking and suspension setup can by you seconds on a lap, as you can break later on corners and hold a faster curve. The RX8 is known for having awesome brakes - and unless an RX7 has had the break overhaul - the 8 can probably earn some brownie points here.
I totally agree prof, the rx8 is a newer car, modern brakes and suspension. I personally would prefer an fd than 8, more potential in an fd in my eyes/ but will cost more and take more time to make like new.
I find it\'s the balance as much as anything. The only time I\'ve been against the clock in the 8 I was on a tight twisty course where the 8 faired well against the 7.
I am with Will here , just because you have the power does not mean your going to be faster around a given circuit.
An 8 will never outdrag an FD but on twisty tracks it\'s close if not sometimes stacked in the favour of a good 8 driver.
Quote from: L18M;767968now now boys.. play nice.. lets settle this on the black top.
Agreed, why I was asking about true comparisons.
I\'ve seen youtube vids used so often that don\'t reflect reality because the other driver isn\'t on it or is carrying passenges or just not pushing. Hell, I\'ve even made the claims :) Just last comp I got 2 seconds closer to the class leader and of course could claim down to "skill" --- reality he had it up on two wheels for 50% of one corner :)
Quotei wouldnt be surprised if 7\'s hgave trouble keeping up with 8. but so many factors to consider.
Main one in an 8 v 7 comparison being age of engine and state of maintenance.
Again as a classic rally competitor I\'ve seen first hand the difference between a recently rebuilt engine and a near original. Same with springs/dampers.
Quote from: Prof;767980The RX8 is known for having awesome brakes - and unless an RX7 has had the break overhaul - the 8 can probably earn some brownie points here.
Good point, only been in 2 7s and both had modern pads and replaced discs and one had increased size. So maybe I need to come sit in a few more :) offers ????
Quote from: Will66;768010I find it\'s the balance as much as anything. The only time I\'ve been against the clock in the 8 I was on a tight twisty course where the 8 faired well against the 7.
Remember I come from near ignorance on the 7, but I found them reasonably well balanced. Small sample tho\' :)
The \'8 is a beast on twisty courses. May be differences in how much we mean twisty Will as I\'m talking of the likes of Doune, Fintray, Golspie, Boyndie, Kames where getting the extra weight to change direction does tell.
Quote from: Arnie_O;768029I am with Will here , just because you have the power does not mean your going to be faster around a given circuit.
An 8 will never outdrag an FD but on twisty tracks it\'s close if not sometimes stacked in the favour of a good 8 driver.
Spot on Arnie, driver.
All that I was saying earlier when setting up comparisons.
YouTube has become one of my pet hates on an international car forum where folks will post vids of trackdays as "evidence" with no thought of the different drivers and different situations.
Dont know what happened to RX8OwnersClub competition that was getting set up but would be nice to see more \'8s trying it and getting results so we can evidence the real performance and handling of these great cars :)
But, back on topic, a photoshop job on an RX-8 isnt\' going to make it faster :) :)
Its all about the driver, if both cars are in tip top condition and close in power, the better driver will win imo. Seen many drivers with 100 to 200 bhp down whip guys on a circuit with much better cars just on drivers ability, the only way you can compare cars is getting the same driver to drive both and time it ala Stig style
For anyone that has had the pleasure of goof around a track with Clive in his 8 will know that without a doubt he will whip anybody around any track!!
And from speakingto Clive about racing a 7 compared to an 8, he thought that the 8 more than makes up for it in the cornering ability for being down on power compared to a 7.
This coming from a man that has done a lot of racing.
Thumbs up to Clive for showing me how driving a car fast and safe in the rain is extremely fun. 3 laps in the car with him around oulton park and stead still smiling when we pulled intothe pits, fearing awesome.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;768036Its all about the driver, if both cars are in tip top condition and close in power, the better driver will win imo. Seen many drivers with 100 to 200 bhp down whip guys on a circuit with much better cars just on drivers ability, the only way you can compare cars is getting the same driver to drive both and time it ala Stig style
Defiantely.
Kind of back to what I was saying about posting vids as evidence :(
Unless you can try to first level the field by - as suggested - takiing it in a competition environment. There you dont get such a huge variation as you do on trackdays of ability.
QuoteThis coming from a man that has done a lot of racing.
ahem :)
But coming back, are any other events running 8s and 7s to do proper comparisons ? Can\'t do it in the Scottish Championships anymore as Iain sold his 7 ( and even it was "unfair" as he had his own engine build in there ... but running on old slicks so I always reckoned it levelled out :) )
I love the 7 vs 8 on track discussion, unfortunately there is no direct comparison, i,e same driver, same track! And the only stats we can look at is the 8 is as quick round the top gear track as the older M3, which we know is no slouch!
imho (which is only that), i would strongly suggest that the 7 in the right hands would be quicker. My old Fd, standard twin, with breathing mods would out drag an M3, i do remember annoying many a M3. On one of the track days i did, a mate came with his M3 and another with a 911 turbo (4 wheel drive, new shape). Taking into account i knew the ability of both guys who lets just say dont hang about, it was in my eyes, a good comparison. The 7 absolutely left the M3 for dead and the only place the 911 could get past was the straight, quickly to be taken a few corners later!
As said, it would be great to get a few 8\'s, and a few 7\'s and see how they compare with the same driver!
I remember an M5 coming to Golspie and thinking he had the beating of the RX-8 :)
fool :) :) :)
as you alluded to , dont you think that once you KNOW a driver then it becomes reasonable to compare on a broad front ?
I have a good feel when we get to different tracks over the years who will come out top in the times. Some are better in some aspects than others.
BUT you cant tell that from the outside with a youtube video. WHich was where I was initially adding the warnings about making judgements.
Having been fortunate enough to drive both I think the biggest difference is feel.
The RX8 feels really grippy and complaint, it\'s got great turn in and a stiffer chasis that makes you feel more confident in the amount of speed you can carry at the apex, it also feels a lot more stable on the brakes than the FD.
The RX7 has mountains of grip but the car generally feels more nervous IMO perhaps nervous is the wrong word.. it feels almost over eager when you turn it in and it dives in. The chasis is a lot looser especially in the middle of the car and I think that feeling and the excitability of the front and rear reduces people confidence.
I think they\'re pretty equally capable and if anything the FD just has the edge but would require a very good driver to get the best out of it.
The difference is all in the feel and confidence you get.
In summary:
RX8 - high grip, high stability, stiff chasis, complaint, easy to pickup, neutral to mild understeer when pushed hard, really inspires confidence
RX7 - high grip, slightly soggy in the middle in comparison, difficult to master, darty handling, gereally less stable, more neutral less of a saftey net.
Nice summary :) thanks !
That "inspires" was possibly the reason in shared drive last weekend where other driver spun on 4th run having already got among the times of the rest of the class. Realise that if it had been another car she may have been less likely to have reached the limits so quickly.
That dartiness was evident in Ian 7\'s runs and in tight hillclimbs is definately an advantage for getting round the tight twisties.
I\'d not swap ... well maybe for the sound from Ian (rotorheid\'s) lovely brap-brap-brap of his tuned 7 !! The \'8 just gets louder not any more emotional :(
Quote from: Competition PZ;768100That dartiness was evident in Ian 7\'s runs and in tight hillclimbs is definately an advantage for getting round the tight twisties.
The biggest place I noticed this was climbing the little chicane up the mountain on Cadwell, the car is so flat and changes direction so quickly even pushing as hard as you can it feels like there is a ton of grip still avaliable, it\'s one of the few places where I could gain time on the Caterhams.
I did see a thing on the infamous you tube through pistonheads with a guy posting up about his porsche beating an m3 cup car on some porsche forum, it was quite funny, loads of porsche fellows basically licked his a**, with great driving comments and all that, then some guy came on and posted about how sh*t a driver he was pointing out loads of things he was doing wrong and even then he was painfully slow and suggested the m3 cup car was just testing and would without doubt p*ss past him if he wanted too :)
LOL I tell you what getting a bit off topic here I know, but there are so many people on PH with German cars and massive opinions. :Nono!
Just going on the forums for a read on there winds me up no end!:Grrr
Wouldn\'t touch a post 2001 german car, build quality is shocking, they don\'t make them like they used to.