Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 1st generation RX-7's => Topic started by: SSScoupe on April 26, 2011, 05:48:58 AM

Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: SSScoupe on April 26, 2011, 05:48:58 AM
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69274

Hi Guys,  Need some assistance here if poss... above is a link to my project car, a 1974 RX4 Coupe which i am told is fitted with a 12A RX7 engine, 5 speed and LSD.  Problem is i don\'t have a starter, and am under the impression there are two types, a 9 tooth and an 11 tooth one.  I have no idea how old this engine is or which gen RX7 it is from.  Its engine number has 7 digits the first if which is written bigger than the others.  After a bit of research, it has been suggested that this may mean its an series 2 12a engine.

Problem i have is not knowing if i need a 9 tooth or an 11 tooth starter!  I don\'t have one to compare it to, and don\'t want to buy the wrong one!

Any help on how i can work this out much appreciated!!
:cheers
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on April 26, 2011, 12:59:14 PM
Sorry mate, never looked closely at my starter teeth. Maybe someone will be along to help shortly. Here is a ramble....

UK Series 2\'s were in production from about 1981 to spring 1984. Series 3\'s were from Spring 1984 to 1986.

I think US cars often had the LSD whereas the standard UK cars certainly didn\'t. (I assume similar build years UK as US).

Easiest way to tell the difference (UK S2 to UK S3) is the oil cooler. The S2 was mounted separate under the radiator; the S3 was a beehive type, engine mounted near the oil filler cap. From your thread your cooler is under the Rad. So definitely not S3. But maybe S1?

Also if you can access your clutch plate you should find that the Series 2 cars had a smaller plate diameter than the Series 3. The S3 is definitely 225mm across.

I\'m guessing that the S2 and S3 engines were basically the same otherwise, so starter teeth I would have guessed would be same?

Maybe you have an S1 engine? the Alternator looks older style than my S3. Also maybe S1 has different teeth as power was increased in the change to S2?

Hope that helps a little.
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on April 26, 2011, 01:18:52 PM
Everything above is related to how we here class the 1st Generation RX7\'s by the way,

Series 1 introduced here around 1979

Series 2 introduced here around 1981

Series 3 introduced here in 1984
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: SSScoupe on April 27, 2011, 05:16:44 AM
Thanks for the info David, Interesting re the oil cooler.  Mine is mounted under the rad, plus the 7 digit engine no makes me think series 2 engine which i believe is a 9 tooth starter...
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: Steve-A on April 27, 2011, 10:13:26 AM
I can whip my starter off my known series 2 engine at some point over the next few days have count the teeth if you like? Its only on the garage floor so no big deal.

I\'ll also check if my engine number follows the same pattern.
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: SSScoupe on April 30, 2011, 04:53:04 AM
Quote from: Steve-A;758486I can whip my starter off my known series 2 engine at some point over the next few days have count the teeth if you like? Its only on the garage floor so no big deal.

I\'ll also check if my engine number follows the same pattern.

That would be really helpful if you could!  Thanks!
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: SSScoupe on May 08, 2011, 04:24:13 AM
Quote from: SSScoupe;759023That would be really helpful if you could!  Thanks!

Steve-A did you manage to have a look at your starter motor?  I am off to look at some 12a RX2 engine parts today and hopefully get a starter!
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: bumpstart on May 08, 2011, 06:29:40 AM
Quote from: SSScoupe;760916Steve-A did you manage to have a look at your starter motor?  I am off to look at some 12a RX2 engine parts today and hopefully get a starter!
the rx2 and the rx4 R type 4 and 5 spd bottom mount starters do not fit alongside M type s1/2/3 gearboxes

they are the same flywheels, the same head pattern BUT the motor diameter is too wide for the new box
sometimes there is also a solenoid position clash with some variations

however M type starter WILL retrofit to rx2/4 SD bottom starter gearboxes
( its it slimmer )


(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6076/pic0801119f.jpg) (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/pic0801119f.jpg/)

(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6849/pic0801120.jpg) (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/pic0801120.jpg/)

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6361/pic0801121.jpg) (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/pic0801121.jpg/)

(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1941/pic0801125.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/pic0801125.jpg/)

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/149/pic0801124.jpg) (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/pic0801124.jpg/)

i will point out again you just need the you beaut 9 tooth M type starter  that is uber common and listed for all manual 12a rx7s

i have 12a/13b stock manual flywheels of all types and if its not a turbo or rx8 ,, they all use the same 300 mm ring gear
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: Steve-A on May 08, 2011, 09:03:43 AM
Quote from: SSScoupe;760916Steve-A did you manage to have a look at your starter motor?  I am off to look at some 12a RX2 engine parts today and hopefully get a starter!

Sorry, this had slipped my mind. I\'ll try to look this morning.
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: Steve-A on May 08, 2011, 05:41:59 PM
My s2 has got a 9 tooth starter. And either I\'ve got no engine number, or its not where it is on a 13b!
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: SSScoupe on May 09, 2011, 07:56:53 AM
Bumpstart + steve-A, really appreciate your help.  Went to look at some RX2 parts yesterday, came back with an expansion tank and a dipstick!  Most other stuff was not of use to me and the starter although for a 12a had a totally different housing.  But with both the info you\'ve given me I ll should have no issues finding one i m sure. Thanks again/.
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: myatt1972 on May 09, 2011, 08:53:02 PM
Had a root through my parts today, S3 starter has 11 teeth for certain :D
Keith...
Title: 1st gen RX7 Starter motor question
Post by: SSScoupe on May 13, 2011, 12:25:13 PM
Quote from: myatt1972;761441Had a root through my parts today, S3 starter has 11 teeth for certain :D
Keith...

Thanks for checking Keith, Its deffo the 9 tooth i need!
:burnout