Hi All, this is probably one for the pro\'s or tuners. After the recent chats on the forum regarding singles, and more to the point, big singles and the associated lag, has anyone thought or has anyone already tried running an ecu which is capable of running anti lag. I only mention this because of rally cars, and i know a few Impreza\'a and Evo\'s run anti lag.
If so, i know the motech ecu\'s can run anti lag, are there any others or is this is a bad idea and thats why no one is using it!
I dont think its widely used because it causes a huge temp increase in the turbos very quickly...but i aint a pro or a tuner so dont take it as gospel
also illegal i think but doubt that would put many people off :D
im pretty sure theres an anti lag feature on the PowerFC, which can\'t be accessed through the commander but can be found when using datalogit...can anyone confirm/deny this?:)
Yep, can do it with datalogit a switch and a feed from the clutch pedal switch.
Ant - db2boy - used to run it when I first got my FD, I haven\'t seen anyone else running it, but it aint half impressive!!!
You arm the switch, then when you push in the clutch, the Apexi chucks in tons of fuel, most of which comes out of the exhaust ports unburnt and explodes in the manifold, keeping the exhaust turbine spinning whilst producing lots of popping / flames / banging / brimestone etc :)
Max
Turbos don\'t tend to last as long when using anti lag.
Having a big Turbo does not necessarily mean you will have big lag. What is your version of a big single, peoples big differs.
Yes anti lag function is on the datalogit. I have seen a antilag setup on an apexi ecu single turbo rex and it was shooting flames at idle while the turbo was glowing.
rgds
Would having the anti-lag on cause a bit of a counter effect though, i imagine the intake temps must skyrocket...and whats the equation, every 10 degrees increase/decrease is a 5% power decrease/increase?
unless youve got a kick-ass intercooler i suppose :)
All the heat is in the exhaust, and rear section of the turbo,not the intake!
Max
QuoteOriginally posted by ScuttleRX
Would having the anti-lag on cause a bit of a counter effect though, i imagine the intake temps must skyrocket...and whats the equation, every 10 degrees increase/decrease is a 5% power decrease/increase?
unless youve got a kick-ass intercooler i suppose :)
What lag? Unless you run a silly size turbo, singles are not laggy, our panspeed car is getting full boost 3000-3500rpm, that is simply not laggy. Good porting will help also I expect. Anti-lag is a waste of time, I had it on an Impreza. For it to work properly you have to have an ultra strong turbine shaft and even then its not long before it snaps. You have to have serious ££££ to make it work for you long term.
I cant believe how much nonsense there is floating around on the net about single turbos being laggy - its bo11ox TWINS are laggy - standard RX7 twins with the sequential set up are not very laggy but generally singles are far less laggy than twins IMHO.
Ant.
*sings* Go Ant, go Ant....:wiggle
Damn right mate :) Not only lack of lag, but actually so much more driveable, especially on the limit.
The power delivery is so much smoother (than the stock twins push/wait/push) that good throttle balance and control of the car, especially on track work is a big improvement.
I considered anti-lag for mine for a while, mainly for launching on drag strip, but being that 1st gear is a nightmare anyway - would one want full boost off the line?
The drop off between gear shifts is hardly noticeable at the moment, so don\'t really need bang bang for that.
Max
QuoteAll the heat is in the exhaust, and rear section of the turbo,not the intake
cheers max, youll have to excuse me im still a novice ;) :D
antilag aint for any real performance benefits IMO but if you can afford to shyte yer turbo out ever now & then it does make for a big crowd pleaser at the big shows just wait till JAE & there will be a few gathering crowds!!!! :D
Si (deaf after follow mate with antilag thru tunnel at silverstone last year...)
A lot of interesting respone\'s there with varying views it would seem. If as mentioned in the thread above, you could have it on a switch it could be used at will, kinda like a nitrous application, only have in on when you want it. When i say big turbo, i meant in the realms of T78, T88 teritory. I would have thought for some of the drag guys it would be handy, if you can get the power to the tarmac that is.
all the anti lag systems i\'ve seen are operated via a switch as it wouldn\'t last long if it was permentantly on!!!
They are impressive thou & the flames that come out of exhaust make flamer kits & such like look full on pink pillow munching ;)
Si (& think Gurj is deaf as well from the phone call i had with him when i was stood behind a 2.2 ltr scoob inside a building with antilag BANG lol:rollin
T78- T88 - T51 KAI
With the right engine set up I should thing it would still be driveable but mostly good for the drag strip. Anti lag is for racing teams not normal people, unless you have masses of money to throw away, in that case go for 3 or 4 rotors and a T51Kai (its rated at up to 1000bhp)
Ant.
Big singles are laggy, but you can to a certain extent tune out some of it. How much lag or how little is dependant on setup and exhaust a/r housing size. A to4s is a medium size turbo certainly not a large turbo so so one would not expect hardly any lag with that applications.
For example I have a to4r with a 0.84 a/r housing from around 3,300 my car takes off like a rocket yet on a another to4r I recently sold that had very similar setup to mine it have a 1.15 a/r housing and there was tons of lag until you hit 5,000 rpm same turbo but different size exhaust housing. A to4r is counted as a large turbo a wee bit smaller than a t78 but that\'show mof a difference a a/r housing on the exhuast side makes a difference with lag etc.
rgds
Try driving some cars with big twins (like GT2530\'s or 2835\'s)
and then tell a single is laggy. :D :D
asked this on anoth thread, but hypothetically (at the moment anyway :D ), could you use a Supercharger and T78/T88 that way the Supercharger kicks in constantly, reducing lag. I believe similar was done on a Sierra Xr4x4. Anyone ever tried it on a rotary?
Mark is thinking ahead to the TII having a BIG turbo!
It is possible.
Nissan did it on a Micra - it was called the Micra Super turbo. Japan model only, dont think there are any in the UK.
(based on the K10 model)
Ant
QuoteOriginally posted by maximtaylor
*sings* Go Ant, go Ant....:wiggle
The power delivery is so much smoother (than the stock twins push/wait/push) that good throttle balance and control of the car, especially on track work is a big improvement.
I\'ll take you for a spin* in mine now it\'s all mapped up - no kick from the secondary tubby just one big push (okay, not a BIG push like you single guys). I reckon you\'ll be well impressed about the transition!
Iain
* I won\'t claim it\'ll be dramatic, just smooth!
I often think people substitute the word \'smooth\' for another word beginning with \'s\' when talking about cars and in particular twin turbo\'s. :D :D :D ....\'My skyline has such a smooth power delivery\' - yeah you mean it feels bloody slow. :D
Only joking though, the twin turbo setup on an FD is one of the finest, just hard to look back once you have seen the single turbo light. :D :D
Ant.
When me and revbaz went out the other week in his to4r 1.15 a/r housing I put the car in 2nd gear at 2,000 rpm I floored it I think we counted to 5 seconds before we got any kind of response from the turbo and when we did it was worth waiting for:D that\'s the kind of lag i\'m on about, nothing until 5,000 rpm.
I kind of like lag now anyway it gives a good sense of suspense. You know something is going to happen but you don\'t know when:D
rgds
If you have got lag,you are in the wrong gear,no lag beyond the redline.:D
Valid point Tim.
QuoteOriginally posted by Timrxmotors
If you have got lag,you are in the wrong gear,no lag beyond the redline.:D
Road Hooligan:3gears-lh
Put a boost controller and ECU on your stock twin car and the acceleration is silky smooth - yuo don;t notice the transition, and as you tend to add both these things when you go single ...
QuoteOriginally posted by Timrxmotors
If you have got lag,you are in the wrong gear,no lag beyond the redline.:D
Well said that man :)
Its not like singles are dead below 5K as a rule, and if yours is big enough to the point that it is - drop her down a peg!
Do you really need 1bar on a big turbo much of the time on the road any way??
QuoteOriginally posted by Timrxmotors
If you have got lag,you are in the wrong gear,no lag beyond the redline.:D
LOL, got to take you out in a serious Skyline GTR man and show you the MEANING of lag.
Ant.
QuoteOriginally posted by A7NTY
LOL, got to take you out in a serious Skyline GTR man and show you the MEANING of lag
Tim wouldnt lower him self to be seen in one of dem things!
Of Course, if you want to run on really low grade fuel, and get a bit better efficiencythere is a step modification.
Ditch the existing 13b engine and gearbox
install an automatic gearbox
Get a really big turbocharger, just about the biggest you can get in the engine bay.
lengthen the shaft of the turbo, so it can meet up with the input shaft on the gearbox.
cannect the output side of the compressor to the inlet side of the exhaust rotor. (dont know the fancy words for that bit.)
set up the Injectors to pump fuel in the connecting line just mentioned
install a continuous igniter just in front of the exhaust turbine.
Probably want to run it on paraffin
Sounds like the scrapheap challenge ;)