Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 3rd generation RX-7's => Topic started by: Pantera Chris on March 19, 2011, 02:33:54 PM

Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 19, 2011, 02:33:54 PM
Need a fairly quick answer on this if possible.

A few people have told me to hardwire my new Walbro fuel pump but my  mechanic who works on very high spec jap cars says it isn\'t really  required for the sort of power level ill be going for (320bhp ish /  stock injectors etc), although he usually works on Evos and Nissans!

Is hardwiring the pump REALLY required at my tune? If so, ill have to buy a kit in with a relay.

Thanks,
Chris
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: philiwily on March 19, 2011, 05:56:09 PM
If you check your voltage at the pump it will be less than battery voltage due to the circuit running around the car through relays, resistors etc . If your going for 320bhp on standard injectors your injector duty will be very high(90\'s%) but lower if your pump is pumping more fuel.
Plus it\'s not that big a job.
Note: The voltage at the pump on idle is lowered by a resistor so don\'t measure it then.

Phil
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 19, 2011, 06:17:24 PM
have done it now, thanks
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: neil_jdmr on March 20, 2011, 01:06:45 PM
Does it actually lower injector duty or just raise the voltage to the pump thus increasing rail pressure ?

Thanks
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: philiwily on March 20, 2011, 03:46:00 PM
The duty is controlled by the ECU, if the fuel pressure is raised after it is mapped the duty would stay the same but the air/fuel ratio would change(richer), this could be corrected by lowering the duty.
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: neil_jdmr on March 20, 2011, 04:53:28 PM
Just as I thought,

Thanks phil
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 20, 2011, 04:55:38 PM
Right, just finished. Its a piece of .... to do if you know how. I used this diagram although I didn\'t do the extra earth bit (splicing the black wire). I also didnt bother extending the original wires, just cut the red one in half and wired straight to the relay.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/dudemaaan/Fuelpumprewire-1.jpg)
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: turbotoaster on March 21, 2011, 01:54:15 PM
it does make a difference and is worth doing, for example i needed to trim about 0.5 afr out of my idle map when i did this and also pulled some fuel out of the map to compensate throughout the rev range
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 21, 2011, 01:57:23 PM
Did you splice in the extra earth wire (shown from the thick black cable).

I guess this is just for extra stability?
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: turbotoaster on March 21, 2011, 02:34:09 PM
electricity works like a railway.

you can have 20 sets of tracks running into a station but if you only have 1 track leaving the station everything backs up and doesnt flow properly.

yes i ran a ground back to the chassis, since my battery was in the boot i actually used the same ground point as my main one off my battery.

Is you battery in the boot, i found a good place was on the left hand side of the boot where the plastic interior is bolted, scratch off the paint to get to the bare metal and hook up there.

ive maxed a set of stock injectors out at standard rail pressure at 360 flywheel bhp.
also ran 4x850cc with 20psi of boost on a stock pump......i wouldnt recommend that mind as that was more me learning mapping than anything else.

i would recommend no matter what bhp but not doign it is ok up to 330bhp id say, after that its up to around 370 flywheel bhp with a rewire, after that id change pumps
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 21, 2011, 02:48:11 PM
Thanks mate. The battery is in stock location. I have rewired as above to a brand new Walbro apart from the extra earth. Ill try and get this done if it makes a difference?

ps - have used the same earth point as you (rubbed the paint off first).
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: turbotoaster on March 21, 2011, 02:56:30 PM
well for the 10mins it will take to do it cant hurt, the better the circuit the more effiecient the setup.

walbro is a nice quiet pump so should be perfect for your needs, what are you planning on doing, just running it on twins for a while?

Havent decided how im going to wire mine up yet as im gonna be running 2x044s externally, luckily im gonna run them under the car else id go deaf!! means i can happily run at 20psi for a while then wont have to change when i go to big single
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 21, 2011, 03:00:13 PM
Yeah I need to get my arse in gear, I really do!!

Will be running stock twins at about 330bhp hopefully yeah. Just want to make sure there are no weak links! Already replaced leading coil and leads with new ones and now pump and fuel filter :)
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: turbotoaster on March 21, 2011, 03:38:09 PM
changing the fuel filter is a good idea, pain in the arse to do but defo worth it, you can have 1000 fuel pumps but if that fuel filter is blocked you just not gonna get the fuel you expect.

I heard you got the coil and leads from atkins over the water? what did they charge.

Im gonna run a seperate system with dynatek amp and coils, works out at £400 all in and with work with everything up 700-800bhp from what i can see, though i think it maybe a bit overkill for most people.

The biggest thing ive learned since tuning a rotary is intake temps, the lower you can get them, the lower the knock, the more you can push the engine, while that might sound obvious running a big front mount makes such a difference.

I got less knock at 20psi of boost with a big cooler than 14psi with a slightly upgraded stock mount cooler so get one if you havent already.

A cool rotary is a happy rotary :)
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 21, 2011, 04:12:05 PM
Coil cost me about £160 including shipping and customs.

Others have told me about intake temps too. Have a trust stock mount at  the moment but I really need to sort the ducting out as im running the  stock stuff. Hits about 35 degrees C on a run.
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: turbotoaster on March 21, 2011, 05:35:30 PM
35c isnt to bad to be fair, anything over 42c isnt good in my opinion, yes you can easily run that temp but you may have to pull a little bit of ignition out.

saying that 35c on the road is different than track, yours gonna be a street car or you planning on taking it on track, that opens a new kettle of fish on cooling compromises.

160 is a good deal!! should help give you a nice spark when you turn the boost up :)

in regards of an intercooler ducting a good idea is to extend the pick up point at the start of the ducting so it can capture more air.

like this

(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/My%20new%20RX%207%20version%20two/DSCF3307.jpg)

claims to help drop temps around 10c when pushed hard
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: Pantera Chris on March 21, 2011, 06:27:54 PM
cool. Was looking at the stock ducting and its quite tragic! That looks like a good idea although a bit unsightly! Think ill try and craft something similar in black so it blends in to my bumper a little better :)

Thanks for your help mate!
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: gonzoninja on March 31, 2011, 08:37:27 PM
Right, I\'ve got a week off soon, so thought I\'d have a go at re-wiring my fuel pump.

Your diagram is really good, but not being electrically mined I don\'t know what relay I should be looking for (at this point you might be thinking I shouldn\'t be messing with fuel and electricty).

All the relays I\'ve seen have been 20 - 30 amp jobs, I can\'t see anything that is 20 -40, do you have any links to get one from, or is there a specific name or part number or something I should be looking for.

Also what amp fuse did you use?

Sorry if that is a doofus question, I just don\'t want my car to kill itself
Title: hardwiring fuel pump required?
Post by: philiwily on April 01, 2011, 01:16:40 AM
I used something like this, a bit overkill.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-RELAY-70-AMP-HIGH-POWER-CARAVAN-SPLIT-CHARGE-4X4-/270719694510?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3f0826b6ae