Hey guys,
Going to be looking for a later 3rd Gen RX7 later this year and trying to get an idea about them.
I would like to get similar performance to the Tuscan I have at the moment, its currently putting out around 380bhp per ton so with the old calculator out I would that to be around 450bhp in the RX7.
I guess this would mean a single turbo of some description if so what would be a good low lag turbo for say up to 500bhp (Might as well round it up).
I take it support mods are the same for a normal Forced Induction Piston engine, ie intercooler, ECU, injectors, Rad, oil coolers etc?
Good luck!!!
I have a build thread over on fd uk for that kind of spec - it\'ll cost a lot if you are starting with a stock car.....
The same principles apply as to a piston engine - but if anything goes at all wrong expect to need a rebuild!
Most people will tell you to go down the single turbo route, "less hoses, lose the rats nest, easier troubleshooting...etc...etc...etc" but if you are wanting 450bhp you can do that with uprated twins if you don\'t wanna end up with a huge turbo and loooooooaaaaadddssss of lag!
If you pick up a stock FD, the FIRST mod you should get is the Apex\'i PFC ECU, But either way, to get those sorts of numbers you\'re looking at intercooler, exhaust, bigger injectors, uprated fuel rail, POSSIBLY fuel pump. Also, as said, if you want to go big numbers the life of the engine is gonna start coming down. So unless you get one with recent evidence of a rebuild, you may want to budget for a stripdown and overhaul (not neccessarily rebuild though) to ensure you have a sound base to start from.
Oil coolers not particularly neccessary, especially if you get a Type-R which comes with two!! ;)
Just my tuppence worth though!!
graeme
Go single turbo, trying to get 450 fly even with uprated twins is a mission and has rarely been done correctly in the UK.
To get 450 - 500 fly,medium sized turbo (T78,T04R etc) Street ported ,Apexi ECU,uprated pump,uprated secondary injectors,ignition system refurbed (coils, wiring),intercooler,exhaust,decat, correctly mapped
I agree - I\'ve been down the route of uprated twins (the stock twins will get you nowhere close), and single is the way to go.
Quote from: suba;738808Good luck!!!
I have a build thread over on fd uk for that kind of spec - it\'ll cost a lot if you are starting with a stock car.....
The same principles apply as to a piston engine - but if anything goes at all wrong expect to need a rebuild!
Thats how i see it too.
You cant cut any and i mean ANY corners with the 7 if you modify it and even if you do its still a bit of a gamble. taking into account bad fuel batches and spark plug ends falling off in the engine! apparently.
Not trying to put you off just giving you informed advice.
you need to own one once. theyre effing insane.:eek:
Not too worried about engine rebuilds as the car will be purly a weekend toy and I may even do some sprints as well (for fun more than to actually be competative lol)
Out of interest what can the stock turbos get to? With the supra it was pretty common to just run a De-cat with a 1.2bar restrictor and fuel cut defender and you will see around 380 - 400bhp
I understand the Rex isnt a 3ltr straight 6 so will be more stressed but is there Basic upgrade that is done?
The down side with looking at Jap cars again is the amount of tuning parts you can get! makes me want to sell the Tuscan now and get a Rex all the sooner to break open the work tools :)
With the FD Rx7 the first mod you have to do really is the mappable Apexi ECU , as sometimes doing the decat and intake causes overboost and fuel cut and in some cases go lean and pop the engine on a stock ECU.
Good condition twins may get get you 300-380 fly depending on engine condition and other mods
With a ported engine and running a bar of boost (which is all the stock twins are capable of - and that is pushing it) claims of 400bhp at the fly have been made, but they are the exception - and I think also questionable, i.e. generous dyno etc...
My stock twins started spewing oil as soon as the boost was raised from 0.7 bar to 0.8. The car made 330bhp at 0.7 bar on the stock twins with the following:
stock ports
HKS / racing beat exhaust
greddy stock mount Intercooler
ARC induction box
Apexi P/fc and commander
Greddy boost controller
sequential turbos
Stock clutch and fuel pump
Stock injectors
no air pump
alloy AST
Alloy rad
You\'ll get a bit more out of the turbos if you run them non-sequential, say 350-360 fly tops and if you are willing to risk a leaking turbo then you can go to 0.8 or 0.9 bar on the stock twins. If they do play up then they are a pig to get off, and cost a fair bit to re-furb as there are two of them.
So a \'stage one tune\' gets you 320-340 bhp, going past this you are looking at flowing more air into the engine, so bigger turbo(s), injectors, fuel pump / swirl pot, porting, clutch, front mount / v-mount intercooler etc. None of this lot comes cheap.:mmmm if you want to go down this route then I\'d look out for a second hand single turbo kit, with wastegate, downpipe and manifold - and get a journal bearing turbo as they are cheap to refurb if you need to. Whilst a GT series Garrett can give good results when they go wrong you either replace the core, or buy another one!
Cool thanks Blitz will put that on the list :)
OK another silly question
What is the air pump? I see some kits keep the air pump and others remove it.
for good all round performance i`d go for gt35 sized turbo. with all supporting mods in place you`l see apporx 450hp and not a great deal of lag.
5 grand on the car
a grand on your fuelling
a grand on your turbo kit
a grand on your ecu and map
a grand on breathing and cooling
a grand on misc bits
do all work yourself and get as much as you can 2nd hand
= 420 fwbhp
You need to read this thread ;) http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590
Stock engine
Power
Proven performance
& most important durability
:spank
Stock 13B-REW and the RX7 is an excellent platform, do it once, do it right, and you will spank ANY other cars out there.
The air pump bungs air into the exhaust to help meet emissions. You dont need it if you decat the car, or if your car is fortunate enough not to need the CAT for it\'s MOT.
You do NOT need an air pump to meet emissions nor to protect the cat :Thumbs-up
All it needs is proper tuning, Mine is better than stock emissions and makes over ~540bhp, Catalyst function as per the day I put it in.
Mr Rice Racing, very interested in all your stuff, i have a completey bog standard fd3 1992 needs a bit of cleaning up etc that im doing at the momment, but am very interested in going down a route simalr to yours, high output, stock engine, reliable and fun to use and not just a bragging bhp number for down the pub. How much would it cost to get a similar setup to yours, or even buy it all from you?
You can E-Mail me if you like
peter@riceracing.com.au
Can supply you with everything, even a brand new 13B-REW in a Mazda factory box if needed :chat
Wow thanks for the input guys!
That water injection looks like good fun!
The plan so far is to spend around £10k on the latest lowest km stock Rex I can find. Then slowly get the parts together for a single turbo conversion. I plan on doing the work myself (apart from mapping), plus it turns out my uncle was a workshop manager for mazda in the 90\'s so going to find out what he knows.
If you are looking to spend 10K then I would look to get a single turbo fd for 8-9K with the spec that you want. it will take a while, but you\'ll find one. Then spend the extra on getting the engine re-freshed, or bank it for when it\'s time for a rebuild.
it\'ll be a hell of a lot cheaper and less work in the long run! I was in exactly the same boat as you budget and spec wise a year ago - I was even looking at getting a cerbera or Tuscan before deciding on the rex!
Quote from: suba;739042If you are looking to spend 10K then I would look to get a single turbo fd for 8-9K with the spec that you want. it will take a while, but you\'ll find one. Then spend the extra on getting the engine re-freshed, or bank it for when it\'s time for a rebuild.
it\'ll be a hell of a lot cheaper and less work in the long run! I was in exactly the same boat as you budget and spec wise a year ago - I was even looking at getting a cerbera or Tuscan before deciding on the rex!
I know where your comming from but from what I have seen a lot of the single turbo\'d rex\'s tend to have quite loud body kits and after doing that with the supra I wish to keep the rex a little subtle.
Worth holding on and having a looksy no doubt.
There are some out there that dont - you just have to be patient, and maybe get something slightly off the spec that you want, be still quite close - the main thing is to get one already running a single. :)
If you plan on keeping the car long term, I\'d thoroughly recommend emailing Peter (RICE RACING) and discussing you requirements. I did something similar recently and will most likely look for a standard-ish example and turn the wick up by following his advice regarding parts etc.
Getting an already-sorted single is definitely tempting, but unless you are absolutely certain of the history and current condition of the car you just might be setting yourself up for an expensive fall. Plus you sound like you\'d enjoy working on the car yourself!
Finally, can I ask what you\'ve done to the Tuscan to get it to the level of tune you\'re at currently? 380bhp/ton would equate to around 420bhp at the fly, given the 1100kg weight of the car unless I\'m mistaken? Not bad from a 4-litre straight 6! There was me thinking TVR have been a little optimistic with their peak figures...
Thought about a V8 conversion as you already like high capacity engines?