Well my car is booked in to Pips for an engine rebuild. It\'s going to get the dowelling redone (better) while it\'s there as well. Also considering various things to do with the engine mounts at the same time (haven\'t mentioned that to Pip yet!).
But the big question is .....
Bridgeport???????
Yes, no, maybe?
Street driving is not really an issue, as it is going to be used more as a track/drag car. One thing that did concern me was reliability. Does this drop drastically with a bridgeport?
Any advice, comments, ridicule, etc. will be much appreciated (or tolerated :D )
PS: anyone got a T-88 or T-51 lying around? I\'ve got a few pence left to upgrade the turbo. Then I just need to upgrade gearbox, driveshafts, tyres, diff, injectors, fuel line........:rollin
Pip wont do another bridgeport.
If I was you I would go big big street port. Bridge will cost alot more to port and to tune, lots more hassle than a street.
Glad to see that you are going to get it sorted.
I would not reccommend bridge porting it.It will be very quick without going that far and much more reliable too.
Kind regards
Carl;)
The Cosmo plates are a good starting point for a nice BIG street/extend port. Compare them to an FD\'s. Use FD rotor housings or change the exhaust port inserts as the stock 20B ones (if they still remain) are not nice (one reason why the 20B is so quiet in the Cosmo I believe). I have 3 ported 20B plates in the FC which we had apart; it looks as if FD inserts were put in AFTER the porting was done to the housing?! Its not very nice looking, big ridge/mis-match between floor of port in housing and the insert :(
For drivability, longevity and ease of tuning as Ross and Carl have said - and as I said the other day, dont bother BP-ing. A big \'normal\' port will get you where you want to be. Especially if you get a big turbo and add lots of NOOOOOOOOOS!! :D
Good luck, keep us updated with how things are getting on. Let me know if u need or are getting another turbo manifold made/sourced as I may be after another also for comparison purposes.
Go the Bridge port. Just do it!!!!
Have your engine secondary b/p and have the engine assembled with the 2 piece seals and the assist piece toward the primaries. You will not be disappointed, if you can have it tuned properly.
REgards-Anthony
:rollin
I like your attitude Anthony - I think talking to you for too long could be very dangerous on the wallet though ;)
MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEEEEHARRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
Max
QuoteOriginally posted by BUZNUTS
Go the Bridge port. Just do it!!!!
Have your engine secondary b/p and have the engine assembled with the 2 piece seals and the assist piece toward the primaries. You will not be disappointed, if you can have it tuned properly.
REgards-Anthony
QuoteOriginally posted by BUZNUTS
Go the Bridge port. Just do it!!!!
Have your engine secondary b/p and have the engine assembled with the 2 piece seals and the assist piece toward the primaries. You will not be disappointed, if you can have it tuned properly.
REgards-Anthony
Its a 20B Anthony, does this change your mind at all out of interest?
He said that it was not going to be orientated as a street car anymore so, DO IT, DO IT, DO IT. Not that you will get to notice much of a difference on the street though as a turbo 20b should be breaking traction almost anywhere on the street. We have a BP 20B turbo street car in Melbourne inspired by me.
I can get you a 51R roller with 72-82mm from around $3100Aud. We have built 15 turbo bridge ports for street cars this year (not 20B though).
Have you ever heard a 20b BP? UNFKNBLVABLE.!!!!!!!!!
REgards-Anthony
Man, what a tease!
DO IT, DO IT, DO IT, DO IT, DO IT, DO IT
pssst. DDOOOOO IITTTTTTTT!!
go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on (http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Sounds/goongoon.wav) lol
Si ((http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~warden/craggy/mrsdoyl2.jpg))
QuoteOriginally posted by BUZNUTS
Go the Bridge port. Just do it!!!!
Have your engine secondary b/p and have the engine assembled with the 2 piece seals and the assist piece toward the primaries. You will not be disappointed, if you can have it tuned properly.
REgards-Anthony
Hi Anthony,
Remember that this is a road going car that gets regular use in traffic jams and the like on our poor clogged up British roads.
Kind regards
Carl
Yup - if you read what Roundabout writes, he says it will mainly be for track/drag, not entirely - so it will still need to be used for some road use.
Hi Anthony,
Last year I built a similar 13b FD engine based on only bridging the secondaries for Geff at ReWorx.It was pretty successful but the turbo was pretty small,Geff has since built an engine himself that is using Cosmo 13b side housings and plenum and is a bit quicker than the bridge still at the moment on the same turbo(Not for long).
I did what you have just suggested with the 3mm apex seals and it worked a treat.Sounded good too.
Ross at Dragon has also very successfully done the same and now has a very fast car that was a pleasure to watch the other day.
Kind regards
Carl:)
One of the problems we have here is that the RX7 3rd gen is cheap to buy but many people who want to make big power don\'t have alot of money to do the work how it should be done.If they did have the money then they would probably be driving something else.That means that at the moment there are not many in the UK who have seriously modded rotor motors.
Also the old Skool cars are not very popular here in spite of being able to get one for reasonable money.
It is hard trying to explain to various ones that it is very expensive to have a quick rotary powered car,that is why the encouragement is not to great to go for a bridgeport.
Not to say that if someone came to me for an all out car with the works that I would not do it,I would love to!
Kind regards
Carl
What are the pro\'s and cons of a bridgey against say a large street port that had been suggested as being the best option earlier on ?
For example you are introducing another failure mode to the engine, how long is the bridge going to last before it fatigues and cracks (suppose this depends on the port at the end of the day) The rotor hosing will require a chamfer to allow the eyebrow port to flow and doesn\'t this decrease the amount of metal near the water seal, yet again this dependant on the port I think.
This is from my limited knowlege of all things rotary so feel free to correct me and to continue with some pro\'s and cons so that Roundabout-now can make the right decission and we can learn a little more about what to consider when porting an engine.
Mike
those from down under also forget that we pay 1 GBP a litre of fuel, thats 2.67 AUDs, how does that compare to what you pay?
apart from that faster the better!!!
A mild bridge port should be no more unreliable than a major extend except for the fact that with more possible power the motor will be under more strain so life will be reduced.
If the bridged engine is N/A then more revs will be used and also reduce the life of the engine.
I think that the the type of things that need to analyzed as an overall package are what sort of power,longevity, type of use,and cost should also be all taken into consideration.
If these can be balanced then a good decision could be made.
Allways budget for considerably more expense than originaly worked out though, and you won\'t go far wrong.
When I speak of reduced engine life I offset this by saying that you can keep a good powerful engine going by refreshing it before it goes wrong,a regular compression test will help in this regard.We need to get into that sort of mentality in the UK on powerful rotaries.Think of them as race engines which get pulled apart often for a once over.
Kind regards
Carl
Carl,
Dave and I have said we will try and do this, the only thing is that gasgets and combustion/water jacket o rings are not cheap here even if you could re use apex/corner/side seals. If you were working on your own engine what parts would you try and re use if cost was a factor.
Am i right in thinking that by \'refreshing\'the engine you are saving on damaged rotor and rotor housing should it pop?
I have been told that oil control ring rubbers should be replaced every time, is this true if they have only done 2.5k miles.
One other thing, is it a problem to mix and match apex seals with new / part won ones?
regards
tony
Hi Tony
The oil control "O" rings will probably be ok.
I recomend to use new apex seals because you don\'t know if the old ones even though the mileage is low have been stressed ( but are still intact at the moment), from detonation.Especially since your engine popped.
The water seals should be replaced.
Refreshing the engine keeps everything in tip top condition,remember that as soon as you start an engine it starts to wear,if you have built your engine properly and it is putting out alot more power than standard it will wear quicker, so a refresh before something major goes wrong is good preventive maintenance.Of course that also means that more parts will be reclaimable from the engine for each build.
If it was my engine I would reuse the side and corner seals if they were not worn too much,you will have to measure them.The rubber inserts on the corner seals can be replaced.
Kind regards
Carl
Thanks for that Carl,
Do you have any opinions on the solid corner seals, (no rubber grommet)? also you mention that i should change the water jacket ring, but what about the combustion ring?
I have just seen for sale a set of end plates and centre plate for a 13b, which were ceramic coarted, have you heard of this and is it any good?
many thanks and regards
tony
QuoteOriginally posted by antnicuk
Thanks for that Carl,
Do you have any opinions on the solid corner seals, (no rubber grommet)? also you mention that i should change the water jacket ring, but what about the combustion ring?
I have just seen for sale a set of end plates and centre plate for a 13b, which were ceramic coarted, have you heard of this and is it any good?
many thanks and regards
tony
Hi Tony,
Not sure if you mean the inner water seal but all of the water seals need to be replaced.
The end plates that are nitrided,or stock are more than fine,I don\'t think ceramic coating is a good idea.
Racing beat have tried it and come unstuck when the ceramic coating peeled off.
Kind regards
Carl
Hey,
Listen to Carl he is giving you the correct advice. I know many people to try and re invent the surface hardness of a plate and nearly all of them end in grief.
REgards-Anthony
The one and only drawback to the secondary bridge in my experience is the damn COPS. If done correctly they are very loud and the police WILL be waiting for you if you drive it on the street. I would still have a bridge motor in my car today if I didn\'t have to worry about getting pulled every time I drove it on the street. If you do it, it will be in your dreams forever! I can feel my heart beat faster everytime I think of it. The rocking of the car and that distinctive Brap Brap Brap Brap! The look on the snot nosed T78 big cams with daddy\'s money GTR driver when you smoke his ass out the hole and then proceed to put 5 cars on him by the end of 2nd gear. The proud feeling you get when you twist output shafts on trannies, break axles, snap ppf\'s and blow diffs on the ground on the street and you\'re only boosting 19psi.