As the title says it all, I know every engine blows up for one reason or the other. However, I want members to share their opinion as to what are the possible causes which leads to the blowing up of Rotary Engine?
I think the main causes of Rotary Engine\'s blow up is
1. Bad Tunning
2. Too much of a Heat
3. Bad Ancillaries
My experience tells me that there are people out there who are convinced that Rotary will blow regardless of anything you do to them...My answer is-if you know everything needed is done on the engine why would it blow??
The reason I am raising this issue is because I am trying hard to convince people on the fact that its the owner which blows the rotary not the engine!!
as if the engine is not look after right...it will blow..
Many people due these issues have installed V8 (Virus) in their Fds and etc etc..
So members please comment on the following 2 grounds
1. Why rotary blows?
2. How can we avoid blowing our Rotaries??
I am sure this thread will help many new comers to this forum and new owners of Fds, FC, Rx8s etc...however, this thread is a bit late for me as I have blown 5 Engines already...:D
Regards
Syed
My RX8\'s first engine blew due to what is believed to be a production fault, I got a new motor under warranty.
You did not include Poor maintenance in your list of reasons they die.
Hi Will66,
I did try to mention it in this thread, as I suggested "The reason I am raising this issue is because I am trying hard to convince people on the fact that its the owner which blows the rotary not the engine!! as if the engine is not look after right...it will blow.."
However, I take your point as I was not specific about the poor maintenance..
Regards
Syed
Detonation #1
What causes this ^
Factory ECU faults (I know for experience!) if you record everything though and can prove it like I did you will get compensated :Ladys-man
(Turbo rotaries)
If you want them to be reliable (factory f7ck ups aside) then the common killers are high power and heat, the best way to counter this is water injection regardless of the fuel type you are feeding it.
Water Injection is the savior of all turbocharged road cars, it takes out allot of heat stress associated with these types of engines, I have a page on it that goes into some more detail here > http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm good reading about how to make a rotary engine reliable at high power and still have a true street car that runs on petrol you can buy anywhere in the world.
Other classics that blow up especially turbo rotaries is the wrong spark plug! (yes this simple) first high duty power run and if you have the wrong heat range plug you can detonate your engine, expensive lesson to learn for newbies or people taking internet random un qualified advise from single car build up experts.
Poor tuning, could be listed as #1 by some, but again if your tuner of shop has no history of leading the way with turbo rotary road cars, then pic some one who has, one wrong calibration and BOOM!
Aside from this there are literally dozens more things that can cause you pain and a rebuild but they are far more random. SO long as you have basic heat management in control, no faulty hardware or software, and a well credentialed tuner, then you will have a reliable long lasting rotary engine.
Bum - just started typing a massive post - then hit the wrong key !
You must also include graceful failues - such as lower and lower compression eventually leading to the need to rebuild and also water seal failure - which can start slowly, and the car still be driveable - but it will need the inevitable rebuild.
Here\'s my list:
1 - Tired engine - low compression and water jacket cracked over winter
2 - Oil starvation / ancilllaries
3 - Water pump failure causing overheat - actually failed 6000 miles (6 months later)
4 - Rear Iron cracked at oil pedestal - rebuilt with new soft seals and later rear Iron casting
4a - Severe Detonation caused by poor mapping / overboost
5 - Water Seal Failure - result of running over 18 psi me thinks ;)
5a - Currently still running - rebuilt with new soft seals only - all the rest was fine and reusable.
Sounds bad - but the car was driveable / normal when 3,4 and 5 happened - it was only things like oil leaking, water consumption that gave it away.
I use my car every day and probably do 1000 miles a month in it. I\'ve probably now changed everthing that can cause problems - fuel pump, fuel rails, fuel lines, FPR, Injectors, using 2 stroke oil injection system, uprated radiator, uprated turbo, changed turbo oil lines, changed loom parts, changed ECU, gauges to monitor engine health and so forth.
If you want reliability - check everything you can before you put it back on the engine - and do any mods that can give you more reliability. Check your gauges, fluids, check ecu error codes, visual check of engine bay etc, get a routine sorted out. Driving the car regulalry also helps - I don\'t think rotaries like being garaged for long periods ;) :driving
When I bought my car back in 2002 - it had done 73000 miles and wasn\'t necessarily looked after as well as it might have been. It\'s now done just over 172,000 miles. Over the last 8 years it\'s been off the road for a total of 8 months - 4 of those were this last winter when I rebuilt the engine myself. I\'m not sure a 21 year old piston engine would be any more reliable when driven the same way / every day ?
Quote from: RICE RACING;735713Detonation #1
What causes this ^
Factory ECU faults (I know for experience!) if you record everything though and can prove it like I did you will get compensated
How can we avoid factory ecu faults?? Whats shall we look out for?
(Turbo rotaries)
If you want them to be reliable (factory f7ck ups aside) then the common killers are high power and heat, the best way to counter this is water injection regardless of the fuel type you are feeding it.
(Factory f7ck ups aside)??? May b i m thick :D
Water Injection is the savior of all turbocharged road cars, it takes out allot of heat stress associated with these types of engines, I have a page on it that goes into some more detail here > http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm good reading about how to make a rotary engine reliable at high power and still have a true street car that runs on petrol you can buy anywhere in the world.
You sell water injections, but the problem is installation of that water injection, I would never let anyone install a water injection on my car unless they know what they are doing?? So do you have any links in the UK who can install water injection- using your name??
Other classics that blow up especially turbo rotaries is the wrong spark plug! (yes this simple) first high duty power run and if you have the wrong heat range plug you can detonate your engine, expensive lesson to learn for newbies or people taking internet random un qualified advise from single car build up experts.
What spark plugs would you recommend?? I was using on my 20B 7420 NKG -11\'s on the top and 7420 NGK -9s at lower. So was I making mistake or it was fine?? Please suggest the best rang of plugs and combination..
Poor tuning, could be listed as #1 by some, but again if your tuner of shop has no history of leading the way with turbo rotary road cars, then pic some one who has, one wrong calibration and BOOM!
The above is understandable..
Aside from this there are literally dozens more things that can cause you pain and a rebuild but they are far more random. SO long as you have basic heat management in control, no faulty hardware or software, and a well credentialed tuner, then you will have a reliable long lasting rotary engine.
The above is understand as well, but please there are some questions above which requires your due attention
Cheers for your response
Syed
Quote from: Prof;735718Bum - just started typing a massive post - then hit the wrong key !
You must also include graceful failues - such as lower and lower compression eventually leading to the need to rebuild and also water seal failure - which can start slowly, and the car still be driveable - but it will need the inevitable rebuild.
Here\'s my list:
1 - Tired engine - low compression and water jacket cracked over winter
2 - Oil starvation / ancilllaries
3 - Water pump failure causing overheat - actually failed 6000 miles (6 months later)
4 - Rear Iron cracked at oil pedestal - rebuilt with new soft seals and later rear Iron casting
4a - Severe Detonation caused by poor mapping / overboost
5 - Water Seal Failure - result of running over 18 psi me thinks ;)
5a - Currently still running - rebuilt with new soft seals only - all the rest was fine and reusable.
Sounds bad - but the car was driveable / normal when 3,4 and 5 happened - it was only things like oil leaking, water consumption that gave it away.
I use my car every day and probably do 1000 miles a month in it. I\'ve probably now changed everthing that can cause problems - fuel pump, fuel rails, fuel lines, FPR, Injectors, using 2 stroke oil injection system, uprated radiator, uprated turbo, changed turbo oil lines, changed loom parts, changed ECU, gauges to monitor engine health and so forth.
If you want reliability - check everything you can before you put it back on the engine - and do any mods that can give you more reliability. Check your gauges, fluids, check ecu error codes, visual check of engine bay etc, get a routine sorted out. Driving the car regulalry also helps - I don\'t think rotaries like being garaged for long periods ;) :driving
When I bought my car back in 2002 - it had done 73000 miles and wasn\'t necessarily looked after as well as it might have been. It\'s now done just over 172,000 miles. Over the last 8 years it\'s been off the road for a total of 8 months - 4 of those were this last winter when I rebuilt the engine myself. I\'m not sure a 21 year old piston engine would be any more reliable when driven the same way / every day ?
Thanks for a very detailed info
syed
Quote from: Mir;7356991. Bad Tunning
2. Too much of a Heat
3. Bad Ancillaries
4. Karma
5. Voodoo
Fixed! :Thumbs-up
Someone doing a cheap previous rebuild and the engine then failing on the next owner even if he\'s done everything right
Adam
Quote from: Nik da Greek;735779Fixed! :Thumbs-up
its not voodoo its triangular witchcraft.
Quote from: berniec;735788its not voodoo its triangular witchcraft.
Haha how to overcome a witchcraft or voodoo???please also tell us how to overcome those problems, when u mention them:D
Syed
Look at this epic fail!
http://www.rx7club.com/album.php?albumid=4114
And the thread it\'s from if ya wanna know more,
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=936562&highlight=catastrophic
A water leak kindly emptying a radiator, thermostat opening, and dumping all the coolant into the rad.
Rad was now full, bonus!
Block was not, bumcakes.
All parts checked, Soft seal rebuild, and it\'s been fine for the last 8 months. In which time it\'s done <100 miles :D
Sometimes a " virus " is better than a re accuring terminal illness ??
I m am looking at preventing terminal illness and ugly VIRUses, not looking for cure!! Because prevention is better than a cure..
Maybe it will be 6th time lucky for you !
Now now, no fighting gents.
its easy.
I really dont understand what this big thing about rotarys blowing up all the time.
Its nothing to do with it being a rotary!!!
Engines just dont break for no reason, anyone who tells you otherwise is a retard, voodoo or karma is a load of rubbish aswell.
the only reason any engine breaks is if you exceed one of its tolerances.
This can be electrical fault in the harness causing the engine to run to lean or run to much ignition.
Or something break inside the engine, again thats because your pushing it beyond its limitations.
If you learn what each part of the engines individual limitations are then you will not break a rotary no matter how hard you hammer it.
Like Pete mentions detonation kills engines very easily, there should be no detonation anywhere on an engine, if your getting that then its your own fault and it deserves to blow up.
One thing pete didnt mention was pre-ignition of fuel, because rotarys run so hot its possible for the fuel to pre-ignite before its had chance for the plugs to do there jobs, this isnt normally heard on the det cans so the mapper is working away and the engine suddenly breaks.
In these scenerios people just throw there hands in the air and say it must be the rotarys fault.....its not, its the mapper exceeding the tolerances of that engine, he should have either run the engine slightly richer(its harder to ignite more fuel hence gives it the adequate time to reach the plugs) fit a more effecient intercooler/chargecooler to lower inlet temps or fit w/i
Water injection is so important as it mixes with the fuel to slow down the burn process so it doesnt become suseptable to pre-ignition as easily, allowing the fuel to get to the plugs and do its job properly.
Similar to this is dropping the air inlet temperature, its not effective as w/i but the lower the temps the less chance of pre-ignition.
My engine is an example of this, in my last car running stock twins i was peaking at 20psi(then letting it slowly drop boost as rpm rose as ran out of fuel) the torque was actually decent in the midrange at that boost compared to 15psi like most run.
I didnt run any w/i, what i did was run a massive 4.8in thick intercooler to allow my inlet temps to stay in the low 20s which offset the boost, my knock went lower at 20psi on big cooler compared to 15psi on stock mount cooler.
Never blame a rotary engine for yours or your mappers failings.....you have exceeded the tolerances somewhere along the lines, fix that problem you will wonder what all the fuss is about.
Quote from: tinker-27;735916Maybe it will be 6th time lucky for you !
Thanks, it\'s not the 6th for me, it\'s the 20 Fds I m moaning abt,
Quote from: RICE RACING;735713Detonation #1
What causes this ^
Factory ECU faults (I know for experience!) if you record everything though and can prove it like I did you will get compensated :Ladys-man
(Turbo rotaries)
If you want them to be reliable (factory f7ck ups aside) then the common killers are high power and heat, the best way to counter this is water injection regardless of the fuel type you are feeding it.
Water Injection is the savior of all turbocharged road cars, it takes out allot of heat stress associated with these types of engines, I have a page on cd duplication that goes into some more detail here > http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm good reading about how to make a rotary engine reliable at high power and still have a true street car that runs on petrol you can buy anywhere in the world.
Other classics that blow up especially turbo rotaries is the wrong spark plug! (yes this simple) first high duty power run and if you have the wrong heat range plug you can detonate your engine, expensive lesson to learn for newbies or people taking internet random un qualified advise from single car build up experts.
Poor tuning, could be listed as #1 by some, but again if your tuner of shop has no history of leading the way with turbo rotary road cars, then pic some one who has, one wrong calibration and BOOM!
Aside from this there are literally dozens more things that can cause you pain and a rebuild but they are far more random. SO long as you have basic heat management in control, no faulty hardware or software, and a well credentialed tuner, then you will have a reliable long lasting rotary engine.
Couldnt have said it better myself.......