Mazda Rotary Club

After thinking long and hard about what i can afford to vehicle wise ive decided to start afresh.

With that in mind ill be putting the 200mph on hold for a long time and just getting a car built(last car ended up bent)


So this build will be to enter Time Attack, its almost like a sprint championship with very relaxed rules about modifications, you can pretty much go bananas, only rules are, no methanol, no slicks, fastest lap wins.

alot of the things ill be able to transfer from my old shell, the engine/transmission/exhaust, suspension, ecu and seats, everything else is new.


So i bought a shell to start, this is an old shell that was raced in the GT championship at Castle Combe, it has a full FIA/MSA approved shell and is seamwelded.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs795.ash1/168547_498890261656_643856656_6530995_634973_n.jpg)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs733.ash1/162728_498890191656_643856656_6530994_4340983_n.jpg)

we then cut out the rear arches and bonded GRP one 60mm wider ones on the rear also the we added 25mm wider GRP ones to the front.

ill be running rota GTR-Ds in 18x10 fronts and 18x12s on the rear

(http://www.powertuneperformance.com/v/vspfiles/photos/GTR-D1810-5114FBLK-2T.jpg)

Im currently waiting on the GRP doors, boot and bonnet to arrive, once they are here we will adjust the everything before finally bolting it on to make sure all the shut lines are correct, id get some proper pics for you guys but the site that has them all on is down.

Next up we made a fuel tank in the boot, its a 64litre tank, and we intentionally had it sitting slightly higher up so it gives us the ability to make a massive functional diffuser setup, this should provide alot of downforce so that we dont need to rely so heavily on the a rear wing which in turn promotes more drag.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs061.snc6/167180_498890331656_643856656_6530996_8051946_n.jpg)

you can also see a little bracket we made to hold my dual bosch 044 fuel pumps.

One of the biggest issues on track is fuel surge, the rx7 struggles with this immensly, so much so that at the nurburgring you need to keep the tank above a half when your flat out as you can hit spots where your just sucking air, with this setup the only that would happen is if you on your roof as you can see, the 2 AN10 fittings will be attached at the bottom of the sump for the pumps to pull from.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs029.ash2/34818_498890416656_643856656_6530997_3021443_n.jpg)


the aim of the car is just run it at 400bhp and weigh 1000kg for a while but then have the ability to bolt a single turbo on and go for the 700bhp at a later stage

well thats it for the moment as we need to wait for some more stuff to arrive but will give everyone an update when the other GRP parts are bolted on.

where you getting the doors and boot to?
how much?
weight?

is this Max\'s old car?  or is it John\'s?

So this is the car that delayed the start on mine :rollin(joking, im on tour this month so makes no difference)

Progress looks good, shame to hear about your last car.

How close did get to the 200mph target for under 10k?

Quote from: RobMatthews;735695where you getting the doors and boot to?
how much?
weight?

im getting them from jon aswell, we arnt 100% of the weight of the doors yet as instead of being completely GRP they have a carbon strengthening panel that goes around the window to stop them flapping around at speed as apparantely the seibon ones are pretty bad for it.

Id imagine we should know the weight of them on monday, ill find out for you

Quote from: antnicuk;735701is this Max\'s old car?  or is it John\'s?

its jons old one, does anyone know what happened to max\'s car?

Quote from: RXSpeedy;735702So this is the car that delayed the start on mine :rollin(joking, im on tour this month so makes no difference)

Progress looks good, shame to hear about your last car.

is yours the black one thats going single t51 turbo as i think jon mentioned yours was a guy in the forces.

if so then I installed your battery, cables, fuel pump, altenator and power fc.

also you left the pipe loose on your old aircon, i removed that for you but it was a ..... to do so i know why you left it on.

Quote from: rbs14a;735720How close did get to the 200mph target for under 10k?

i actually was still on target strangely enough.

car £3000
engine £3000
intercooler £72
radiator £99
elbow £70
gearbox and diff braces £100
Rear battery relocation £60
suspension £300
silicone pipes for water/air £50
power fc £450
wideband £140
fuel rail £80
FPR £65
so thats £7486

all that was left was this

£600 turbo(includes shipping and taxes)
£350 manifold(agreed price by mccarthy)
£100 wastegate
£100 downpipe
£100 oil lines for turbo
£300 injectors
£200 fuel pumps
£400 ignition system
£100 w/i
£200 tyres to adjust gearing
thats £2450 then the fuel to do the mapping

that took it to £9936, obviously there maybe little things that come up that add to the cost but nothing more than a few pounds

its a shame really as i was really enjoying the project and saw myself as close to 70% of the way there, worked it out financially to have bought everything else i needed and be ready for mapping around early april.

But with after what happened i now need to just rebuild the car, it will be a much better car once its finished which will be nice but being honest its not really something i wanted to do, just been pushed this way.

Its gonna take me a while to complete the car as alot of things now are being replaced(like full set of polybushes) as i dont want to stick old and dirty things onto a nicely painted shell

Yeh the black ones mine, its a bit rough around the edges but ive had no major problems as of yet *touch wood* Hopefully after i come back off tour i\'ll have some more money to spend as im not happy with a few bits that could cost a lot. Yeh that aircon pipe was a PITA so i just left it for Jon haha!!! All the best with your build its looking good so far.

good luck with this one :)
do they have different classes for time attack to take into account how much power or weight your car is or is it a free for all where everyone if in the same group and fastest time wins?
as you can see i dont know much about time attack :p
is ther e alimit to number of laps you can do? or even if you do one out lap, flying lap to get the fastest time that is not beaten then in lap you can win?

(maybe i should google it lol)

Quote from: RXSpeedy;735731Yeh the black ones mine, its a bit rough around the edges but ive had no major problems as of yet *touch wood* Hopefully after i come back off tour i\'ll have some more money to spend as im not happy with a few bits that could cost a lot. Yeh that aircon pipe was a PITA so i just left it for Jon haha!!! All the best with your build its looking good so far.

its actually a decent car mate, when i took your passenger side wing off to run the live feed for your battery i noticed there was no corrosion anywhere, the car seemed fine to me.

I also removed your primary injector rail, now on your email it said you wanted the 550cc left in with atomicrex rail, i assume you know that new rail is a  top feed and not a side feed so you will need to put in new injectors, jons got some that hes gonna put in for you so no need to panic, i think they flow the same as the stock ones, just different shape.

Oh yeh, you need to have a think about where to put your commander for your power fc, i have left it loose for the moment as i asked jon to call you about making a bracket for it.

Generally its a good car, i hope your prepared for the big difference as your pretty much doubling your power output, what clutch does it have in it?

Quote from: L18M;735732good luck with this one :)
do they have different classes for time attack to take into account how much power or weight your car is or is it a free for all where everyone if in the same group and fastest time wins?
as you can see i dont know much about time attack :p
is ther e alimit to number of laps you can do? or even if you do one out lap, flying lap to get the fastest time that is not beaten then in lap you can win?

(maybe i should google it lol)

Yes they have difference classes.

Pro............for the big tuners with unlimited budgets(£150k+) The winner last year was a 900bhp evo

Club-Pro....for a fair few tuners and some well off private people, normally cars are around the 700bhp area, alot of evos and imprezas.
The winner last year was a 700bhp impreza

Club-Pro Rwd....pretty much the same but for rear wheel drives, only has 3 cars in it last year so not really a group you want to go into. The winner last year was a 350bhp exige

Club Challenge...Entry level class, all sorts in here, the big section is for 4wd they again are mostly evos, skylines and imprezas, theres also 1 escort cosworth, theses cars area around 500-600bhp. The winner last year was a 600bhp r32

Club Challenge RWD...this is the class i would be put into, again anything goes as long as its rearwheel drive, last year there was 2 rx7s, 3 skyline gts and a sierra cosworth all aroun d 400-450bhp....mattwebb rx7 pretty much destroyed the class to be honest so not sure if he fancies moving up a class this year.

Club Challenge N/A anything naturally aspirated can enter, from 6r4s m3s, TVRs, hondas mostly this sort of stuff is around 300bhp Quite a close class, was won by a 6r4

Club Challenge fwd this is pretty much full of turbo/sc hot hatches, things like minis, hondas. a vauxhall astra won it this year, pretty much owned the class to be fair, didnt even use his car in the last round and still won it by a margin.


Id actually like to run in normal club challenge class with all the 4wd boys as there times would be my target but i suppose since its fastest lap and not normal racing you just compare lap times after anyway.

theres no restriction in power or weight, but if you get within 5% of the winners time in the league above you then you get moved up a class.

No limit on laps, but it does take a bit of forward thinking to find yourself space to put a clean lap in, your given a 20min session, you get 3 of these i think during the day, but you never do 20mins as you will cook your tyres, most people have 1 outlap, 2-3 flatout laps and then 1 cool down lap, 888s dont like being pushed for very long they cook so you have to be very careful with them.

Plus at £1000+ for a set, you cant afford to kill them on the first time on track.

Quote from: turbotoaster;735730its jons old one, does anyone know what happened to max\'s car?

I heard that Hayward Rotary bought it?

Quote from: turbotoaster;735747its actually a decent car mate, when i took your passenger side wing off to run the live feed for your battery i noticed there was no corrosion anywhere, the car seemed fine to me.

I also removed your primary injector rail, now on your email it said you wanted the 550cc left in with atomicrex rail, i assume you know that new rail is a  top feed and not a side feed so you will need to put in new injectors, jons got some that hes gonna put in for you so no need to panic, i think they flow the same as the stock ones, just different shape.

Oh yeh, you need to have a think about where to put your commander for your power fc, i have left it loose for the moment as i asked jon to call you about making a bracket for it.

Generally its a good car, i hope your prepared for the big difference as your pretty much doubling your power output, what clutch does it have in it?

That\'s good to hear i was expecting a little corrosion but i must admit underneath its been undersealed and looked after for pretty much all it\'s life, i was generally talking about the wiring loom being very brittle and paint faded on the front bumper, it\'s nothing major but its pricey and a full respray is last on the list i might just get it detailed as i hear they work wonders with paint marks.

Yeh i said to Jon use his injectors i wanted the 550\'s for the idling side of things and tbh i don\'t see a massive difference when i see 600bhp cars still on 550\'s.

Im using a stock clutch as far as i know but in my opinion i don\'t think its a stock one in there from when i bought it. The clutch on mine is either all or nothing and its a pain in traffic which made me think it might be uprated. Either way that was on the cards for when i get back off tour because i\'ll be able to fit that in the MT workshops on camp and i\'ll have the extra money to spend which i don\'t at present.

I\'ve got to phone Jon today at some point so i\'ll say crack on with making a bracket.

even the club class isnt cheap to enter in my opinion

So what happened to your red car? Am I right in thinking lamppost and being sideways?

dont think any motorsport is cheap to be fair but apart from a bit of hillclimbing i cant think of anything much cheaper.

my girlfriend bought me a trackday for xmas this year, it runs out in november so im hoping to get one day out in the car just before it runs out, ill probbaly run it on federal rsr track tyres as they only cost £600 for the set compared to £1600 for a set of 888s

Ill have slightly less grip but i would end up killing the 888s anyway spending the day setting up my car.

Grant im afraid the red car suffered in the slippy conditions this winter, went around a roundabout and went straight on so frontal impact.

intercooler and rad are busted, so ill need to get them again, since this is a track car though im not gonna bother with lights for a while and will just make a couple of ali brackets to hold in my popup light covers.

It will defo be one of the lightest rx7s around i would have thought, would be well under a ton if it didnt have a cage

Quote from: turbotoaster;735776It will defo be one of the lightest rx7s around i would have thought, would be well under a ton if it didnt have a cage

maybe this should be a challenge my weight limit is 1048kg see how close you can get...

ok cool that sounds fun, didnt you mention yours weighed a hell of alot more(+200/300kg), have you recently stripped it all out?

or is this another one you have bought?

You know it\'s not R888\'s this year dont you ...

i heard that toyo arnt sponsoring it this year but you are allowed to run them as there was a big thing about it because people had already spent there money on them.

I dont know if you are allowed to run other makes of tyres this year yet, still waiting for verification, unless you know more than me?

Had an email from Glenn to confirm what size tyres I would be running if I was to run this year, my guess is Maxxis will be the tyre deal as they are into everything bar TA at the moment

well if they do the times are gonna drop dramatically.

Its gonna be alot harder for the 2wd cars now as maxxis best tyre is only like a toyo t1r so getting traction out of the corners is gonna be fun.

It would be nice for them to do what they do in japan and let them run whatever tyre they like aslong as its road legal., that would help save some money i think as 888s are so dear!!

What sort of discount did you get off the 888s when you competed, about 25%?

the americans are allowed slicks in the pro class, be cool to see how fast the pros over here would be with them.

Quote from: turbotoaster;735792ok cool that sounds fun, didnt you mention yours weighed a hell of alot more(+200/300kg), have you recently stripped it all out?

no same car, weighed 1320kg last year with me (78kg) shed alot of weight but new cage to go in

i\'ve not checked toyo prices lately, but where did you pluck a figure of 1600 quid?

befor buying my last set of 888\'s last year they were £700 fitted and balanced for a set

Rob, I think the price is based on this (which TT posted on his thread PassionFord:

Quote from: turbotoaster;5278448the thing that sucks is the tyres(285 front/335 rear) i need cost £1400 for the set and i would imagine ill only get probably 2 rounds out of them if im lucky:grrr:

I can\'t honestly see why you think you need that massive tyre width, or extra track.  The FD is a superb car out of the box, and and some well chosen parts, mainly in the reliability department would make a competitive car.  The biggest factor in this venture as a TA car though - is going to be the driver.

If I was planning on doing TA, I\'d sort a good, reliable car and get in as much actual driving tuition and practice in as you can.  That will give you the best bet.

Quote from: rbs14a;735841no same car, weighed 1320kg last year with me (78kg) shed alot of weight but new cage to go in

is that with no cage or your old cage

are you going for CDS or T45 as theres a little bit of weight there

also 1048kg is pretty good, is that with metal doors? and are you still running the stock dash and wiring etc as theres some saving there

Quote from: RobMatthews;735846i\'ve not checked toyo prices lately, but where did you pluck a figure of 1600 quid?

befor buying my last set of 888\'s last year they were £700 fitted and balanced for a set

335/30/18 are £417 each
285/30/18 are £397 each

Quote from: Swanny_UK;735849Rob, I think the price is based on this (which TT posted on his thread PassionFord:


I can\'t honestly see why you think you need that massive tyre width, or extra track.  The FD is a superb car out of the box, and and some well chosen parts, mainly in the reliability department would make a competitive car.  The biggest factor in this venture as a TA car though - is going to be the driver.

If I was planning on doing TA, I\'d sort a good, reliable car and get in as much actual driving tuition and practice in as you can.  That will give you the best bet.

i look at it that im not gonna have the power of Matt Webb so i need to make it up in other ways.

im only gonna be 400bhp, hes around 500bhp at 1.1bar

If im 50kg lighter(i think hes 1050kg), have much more mechanical grip and more aero grip then i can hopefully pull that back.

thats the plan anyway

I see the logic that you\'re applying to being down on power, and therefore you feel mechanical grip may give you an advantage in other aspects, that\'s not my point. Simply put, logic would dictate to start with a basic sound, reliable car, do a season and is it progresses *then* decide if you need an extra 80mm of tyre width at each side at the back.... or just practice, practise, practise, know your car, know the tracks, and out drive the competition.

well matt runs 265 tyres all around so theres no point being able to just get on the power out of the corner the same time as him, to make up 100bhp i basically need to be on the power much much earlier, hence the big rear rubber/

Someone who used to race once told me circuit racing is like doing lots of little drag races, the earlier you get on the power compared to your rival, the quicker you can get to the next corner.

Thats the sort of idea im going along with.

The good thing looking at the other competitors in the RWD class is that apart from Matt there isnt much competition, ie matt at brands was 2.5secs faster than the next guy.

Also my thoughts are that because the tyres are much wider theres less lateral loading per square inch so it should mean the tyres arent pushed as hard, get to hot and go off which seems pretty common from what ive been reading with 888s, being able to put more laps in during the 15min session may allow me to get the max out of the car(have more laps to explore the limit on each corner)

Also less chance of wheelspin again making the tyres last


Of course this is all subjective because i wont really know how fast the car is until i get it out there and pound the laps in, i need to get it to a track to get it all setup how i like it so i have more confidence on its abilities and like you say more importantly my own abilities, ive only ever raced karts and done trackdays in fwd cars so this is a big step up

In regards of progress, im thinking of running it at 400bhp for a season then sticking a big turbo on it and running around 530-550bhp the following year.

Im hoping i come to a decent agreement with my insurance company over the next couple of weeks which will give me a bit of money to get the shell painted and to the point where i can start bolting stuff on, once thats done ill get it corner weighted to see if all my plans worked

Mat and me both run 255\'s I belive Lee.
 
I dont see why you think you need so much tyre to be honest, look at the Revolution car thats 295\'s all round and the quickest current TA car in Japan.
 
Also look back to the Gobstopper that ran 235\'s all round and didnt have 800 plus hp it was more like 550 plus the gas.
 
Not trying to say your wrong in what your doing but I think you might be suprised what some of the top cars do and on what tyres

i think i read mr webb was running 265s last year, maybe he will pop on to confirm.

Are you gonna do time attack this year again at oulton or just continue to do track days, what sort of times are you running around oulton last time you were on a trackday?

its true the revolution has 295s all around but remember that car will produce much more downforce than i will be able to create, there most recent time around tsukba was done my increasing the downforce on the rear as they were getting wheelspin at the 2 hairpins, ill be running a big diffuser and wing but i think that type of downforce that car produces is above my abilities to create.

remember though the gobstopper has 4wd, that means your equally sharing the power out between 4 wheels and not 2(yes i know its variable with DCCD)

Maybe i might end up being wrong and find that bigger tyres actually make me slower due to more unsprung weight and heavier rolling resistance, but wont know until i try it.

hello , where did you get the rear grp arches from as im trying find a pair for my project if you dont mind me asking.

they are 60mm wider, you can either have them in carbon or GRP like mine

atomicrex 0870 903 6666 just say Lee sent you

cheers:Thumbs-up

Quote from: turbotoaster;735984i think i read mr webb was running 265s last year, maybe he will pop on to confirm.
 
Are you gonna do time attack this year again at oulton or just continue to do track days, what sort of times are you running around oulton last time you were on a trackday?

You cant get 265 R888\'s in 17\'s so it would either be 255 or 275 but I belive it was 255.
 
Not sure what I will do this year, I just want some fun really :3gears-lh

you are right mate, my apologies, must have seen 265 elsewhere and got confused.

well whats the gearing like on yours with the rx8 box, short enough that you could do some hillclimbing/sprinting as id imagine the throttle response on yours would far outway any 13b turbo and bramble seemed to do reasonably well when he had a go with a t51r powered one

Thought I pop in and mention a few things.

1st, you need full operating lights so you can show other drivers when your on your fast laps. its in the regs.

I ran 255 all round as the other matt said, tyres this year are pirelli(sp) to bring series in line with drifting I guess.

Ive been moved into either club pro or pro rwd which is one of the new groupings, if I turn out but its looking less and less likely

I dont think I was running 500 bhp or anywhere near more like 430-450 tops never dyno`d so cant confirm.

A full season as I mentioned on fduk, will hit the wallet hard if you maintain the car between rounds etc, also I ran car on race fuel as extra saftey measure and that adds alot, but I would rather do that than have rebuild issues, we built the car to be reliable so a lot of time and effort went into ducting of v mount etc and keeping engine bay as  heat free as possible. You would hope John would look at this closely with his background. I feel aero ect would be a fine tuning issue for me  as it cant produce down force in the pits!!

Mat

thanks for the info matt about everything.

can you use any pirellis? what about people who have already bought there 888s, are they allowed to use them?

 if I turn out but its looking less and less likely............you thinking of not competing this year? i was looking forward to see how you do against the top club class 4wd guys.

i assumed with 1.15bar of boost on a t78 that 500bhp would be hit, i think i remember you saying that you ran 0.9bar sometimes though.

Do you have any pics of your v mount setup and maybe some ducting pics as that would be really interesting to see what sort of angles you have set things.

Should be an update on the car in the next couple of weeks so will keep everyone posted

Quote from: turbotoaster;738000thanks for the info matt about everything.

can you use any pirellis? what about people who have already bought there 888s, are they allowed to use them?

 if I turn out but its looking less and less likely............you thinking of not competing this year? i was looking forward to see how you do against the top club class 4wd guys.

i assumed with 1.15bar of boost on a t78 that 500bhp would be hit, i think i remember you saying that you ran 0.9bar sometimes though.

Do you have any pics of your v mount setup and maybe some ducting pics as that would be really interesting to see what sort of angles you have set things.

Should be an update on the car in the next couple of weeks so will keep everyone posted

Im sure once your entered youll get info on tyres but I have had several emails about tyre sizes etc as the control tyre is now a perelli not sure which one though, I think the trofeo was mentioned,( shown at autosport show.?) Unfortunately due to results last year, club is not an option for me and they have split up the classes even further from what they where. I personaly think it should be club or pro no need to split it into rwd /fwd/4wd/fi/na. Just get back to the basics of the fastest car in there class. I dont have the budget to compete with pro rwd cars ie whifbitz who will spend in excess of 100k building a car, the guy with the sc exige has spent a fortune building that aswell and in testing was as fast as the planet racing evo at brands (sub 50 secs easily, which is mega quick) and jamie can pedal too.

You may see me at one or two rounds but def not full season.

Mat
 
 There are pics of the ducting up on here or fduk somewhere.

from what i currently know, noone actually knows what pirellis the time attack is gonna be run on, i did look at the trofeo when i heard to news and they do seem like the most sensible choice, especially when you have cars up to 900bhp there, normal road tyres would be chewed to bits!

At the autosport show they were on p zeros which are basically just normal rubber hence the confusion and worry, since the trofeo is a new tyre i would imagine they will use them to market them out to the european market to enhance sales.

I would like to do oulton park since its my local circuit but since its first on the calender i dont think ill have enough time to get it finished due to all the fun ive had with my insurance claim etc.

Its a shame you got bumped up a class as the cars your competing with are to fast like you say to really give any competition with, but on the other hand youy were much faster than ronnie in his cosworth so its swing both ways.

I agree what your saying about all the classes, it is getting really daft now, i think it should be 3 classes, no more.

If your fwd and come 10th in club, well you can class yourself as the fastest fwd, not get put into a completely different class.

In club pro rwd there would only be 3-4 competing this year?....pretty much sticks you on the podium just for turning up sometimes!

You planning on just doing some random trackdays this year for fun then, be good later in the year if my cars ready to organise a big rotary track day with maybe some sneaky timing!

Any progress?

little bit of progress, bought my intercooler and radiator again as they got damaged in the crash.

spoke to jon and hes got some more parts ready to be bolted on, steering rack, ARB setup,poly bushes etc, and hopefully will get the doors by the end of week, finish off the paint prep and we can get painting!! :)

Then its a case of just bolting everything on, i havent needed to use the car so there has been no rush, fingers crossed ill have some pics next week.

hows your car coming along?

Rx7 is being sold and the rx4 hasn\'t had much done as of late as I\'m waiting on some to be made. Picking them up this week. And got my own designed custom hubs to be made too.

Have got the turbo for the rx4 though, a BOrgWarner S300SX3. BW\'s answer to the GT4094R basically. Same HP numbers etc. And its cheaper.

BW have just brought out their new range of turbos too, something I\'m looking into for the future when I want to go really fast.

Have you seen them?

ah shame to hear your getting rid of the rx7, so how come your staying with the rx4.....are you just building a drag car?

i know the BW range very well, good value for the money, i prefer the over the garrett range to be fair, but then thats down to preference.

which s300 did you go for as you know there quite a few different sizes.

ill be running a s400 because of its bigger shaft to help cope against high EGTs.

what fuel you gonna be running on, pump, race, e85, meth?

ive got a thread actually on rx7club you might like of a guy running your turbo on the dyno with some power figures if it helps.

your also talking about the EFR series turbos, been watching there progress for a few months and even though the pricing has been published, finding direct comparisons in terms of power had been hard to find.

Found one honda vtec graph and the results seem impressive, but saying that looking at the spec of these turbos you can understand why, hoping to hear about a rb26 power graph from full-race soon so we will see.

Would love to have one but looking at the pricing its a bit beyond my budget, ill be happy with my regular £500 s475

Yes the EFR range. What sort of information are you after on them? I could email John at AET Turbos and ask him if he has some information that you want?

What\'s your thread on Rx7 club? Iv just started going on there. Information overload or what! Seen some great builds.

The thing I find best about the EFR turbos is that you get everything in one package, no need to search for other bits. They even have a port for a turbine shaft speed sensor, reeally good for measuring another parameter for tuning capabilities.

The turbo I have is;
Part number 177281
Comp wheel OD 3.60
Comp wheel inducer dia. 2.60
Comp wheel inducer diameter (mm) 66
Turbine wheel OD 3.14
Turbine wheel exducer 2.89
Turbine wheel exducer (mm) 73
Turbine ar .88
Cartridge assembly 176634
Service kit 318393

Also has the extended tip technology. Giving the benefits of a bigger turbo without the draw backs of later spool etc

I got the spec sheet given when I bought the turbo.

Would have got an s400 but I will hopefully get boost with mine before 5,000rpm.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;750952Yes the EFR range. What sort of information are you after on them? I could email John at AET Turbos and ask him if he has some information that you want?

What\'s your thread on Rx7 club? Iv just started going on there. Information overload or what! Seen some great builds.

The thing I find best about the EFR turbos is that you get everything in one package, no need to search for other bits. They even have a port for a turbine shaft speed sensor, reeally good for measuring another parameter for tuning capabilities.

dont really need any information as such, just more power graphs would be nice, though being honest unless your really pushing for a certain power figure with a spool time that is important(like a race series/competition) then i dont think they are currently worth the extra expendature, not for a rotary at least.

You mention that yes they include alot of additional features but then running an internal wastegate on a rotary might not be the best thing due to the low boost a rotary runs and the extra flow that will be needed to pushed through the internal wastegate.

Sure for a piston engine they are fine, the larger rear wheels are perfect for pushing a piston but for us im not sure yet.

Yes you can go external turbine housing, but then all that puts you back to the start.

for motorsport, they are good, for us at there current price, im not 100% convinced, just like a gtx garrett, costs to much to be worth it.

but im looking forward to being proven wrong, plus as the price comes down then they will make more financial sense.

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=903611

hes sticking aload of turbos on the dyno with graphs to give exact us a chance to see there differences in real world application.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;750961The turbo I have is;
Part number 177281
Comp wheel OD 3.60
Comp wheel inducer dia. 2.60
Comp wheel inducer diameter (mm) 66
Turbine wheel OD 3.14
Turbine wheel exducer 2.89
Turbine wheel exducer (mm) 73
Turbine ar .88
Cartridge assembly 176634
Service kit 318393

Also has the extended tip technology. Giving the benefits of a bigger turbo without the draw backs of later spool etc

I got the spec sheet given when I bought the turbo.

Would have got an s400 but I will hopefully get boost with mine before 5,000rpm.

ah you have a s366 then, not bad turbo, good choice on going for the largest turbine wheel, but thought you would have gone for the 1.00ar/ turbine housing to keep the back pressure as low as possible.

Saying that it all depends on how hard your gonna push the turbo, whats the car gonna be used for?

you could have gone for a s400 and still maintained decent spool

seen one on a streetport hit 15psi at 4krpm with a small turbine housing.

Ha I just read that whole thread yesterday. Was gutted when I got to last pages and he hasn\'t really hit the dyno yet. Lmoa.

The largest turbine wheel is a .91 that I could get. I will play around with the Ars when I start really seeing what the engine/car is capable of.

With back pressure what I think I may do is have the down pipe at 3" then open out to to 3.5" to get rid of it, depends on room under the car.

The car is a drag car but I\'m going to drive it in the streets. The turbine housing I have got is a single scroll, see if I benefit from less friction/better flow through the turbo at higher rpm Than with a twin scroll looking for midrange spool.

I think you will understand what I\'m mean? Single scroll as opposed to twin scroll?

It\'s an ongoing argument just like bov or no bov. So I\'m going against the trend even though most people say other wise. I can always exchange the housings anyway and just adjust the map.

Im going to use v-power in the car and I reLly want to rink WI as I have seen so many peoples proofs of how good it is and also on the thread you just pointed me towards he has shown one of his rotors from racing a car for a yearrunning meth injection and it was nearly perfectly clean. No carbon build up which is the biggest detriment to rotaries dying

please dont tell me you paid for your turbo from the uk, dare i ask how much it cost.

also you shouldnt have gone for the a single scroll, its been proven even by mazda that twin scroll housings not only help with spool but actually help flow more at the top end over a single scroll equivalent.

your spec says your rear turbine wheel is actually 73mm and the housing is .88 ......which is the smallest turbine housing you can fit :(

if this was a low boost track car i could maybe agree, but for a drag car or looking to run a decent amount of boost id change it before you map it.

if you had ordered it from the US you could have had the 1.00 housing and £640 delivered to your door.

the rear turbine housing has a 4 inch V BAND on the rear so you will need a 4inch downpipe, the longer it stays 4in the more power you can potentially make.

a turbo works by pressure differencial, the larger that is, the easier it is to flow and more power can be produced my increasing the overall engine VE.

i wouldnt bother is a BOV, i dont run them.

73 mm is just under 3" so exhaust will be three not 4". 100mm is 4"

Where are you getting the s400 for 500 quid? Won\'t you have to pay I
Port duty and tax on top of that?

73mm is the size of the exhaust wheel, its not the size of the turbine housing outlet, trust me i know.

its $725 delivered to my door from the US, so actually £445 but i added extra to £500 to cover for anything.

Ive never paid tax on anything ever ordered from the US

Quote from: turbotoaster;75108973mm is the size of the exhaust wheel, its not the size of the turbine housing outlet, trust me i know.

73mm is the exducer of the turbine wheel, which when referring to turbine wheels is the internal diameter of the wheel. The inducer (referred to as OD above and given in inches) is 3.14" which is about 80mm by my reckoning. So the size of the exhaust wheel is actually 80mm which is a good size. Remember, inducers and exducers are reversed when talking about compressors and turbines and follow the direction of flow.

Agree that the housing might be a bit conservative though.

very true mattie, i know the difference between them etc, but just focused on the smaller size as this was something grant mentioned, didnt want to get to technical yet, but your right, i should have clarified it a bit further with the inducer size to help explain.

im suprised since its a drag rx4 he went for a small turbo unless he was using a stock port 13bt or 12a for example

Small? I was advised to go for something GT40 sized as anything else would betokened small. I was told that it\'s best to go for something of this size to start with as the car will be a handful to get used to. Remember this is an old car, not an FD. Once I have got use to driving this car/engine/turbo setup I have been advised that a GT42 would work well with the car but would be very top end crazy fast. This will be the fastest car I have ever owned, currently my FD is the fastest.

Som you can see where imaging with the car, I think getting used to a single turbo car is going to be interesting in itself. My turbo housing is something I will worry about once I can get  the car doing what I want, admittedly I may get huge more amounts of mid rang from the turbo but it\'s not just going to stop producing power at point X is it?

As this is a car that I will be keeping for some time my plans are to eventually get a 20B in there running a GT 42 or 45 sized turbo. At the moment it\'s the beginning of learning something forself. One reason why I bought the data loggit software and box.

The only person I get to talk to regularly about turbos and rotories is my dad and it just isn\'t something he knows lots about. If it was 2 stroke engines then he is the best as he has forgotten more about 2strokes than most know.

I know there are websites for asking questions but az I find a lot of the experts that do share info don\'t tend to let all the info out there as it is there big secret. Good for their business but bad fir me trying to learn things.

So starting with this small turbo is a good starting point don\'t you think? Especially if I\'m aiming to have something with the capability of making up to 800Hp in the future?

Right just been in touch about my turbo. Getting turbine housing swapped for twin scroll. And have the choice of .91 and 1.00 housing. Seen as though I have gone for twin scroll now for earlier spool might aswell get the .91 for earlier spool than the 1.00?

And it is all free of charge. Bonus.

ok ill try and break it down for you simply to help.

your concerned that the car will be to fast with a big turbo on.

You have a wastegate spring you can change to give you the boost and in turn the power you require...once you get used to that power you can increase the boost.

Why go through the hassle of changing turbos when you wanna go faster, get the right turbo to begin with, it will save you time, money and hassle.

starting with a small turbo in my opinion is false economy, either permanently decide what your power output is or cover both angles so you can increase.


also that turbo isnt capable of 800bhp on a rotary, thats on a piston engine your thinking of, maxed out your looking no more than 600bhp.

im sure in theory that would be fast enough for most people but then your talking about 20b which says it wont be.

personally if you havent already bought the turbo get a s475 with a 83mm exhaust and 1.00a/r turbine housing

if you have already ordered the s366 turbo get the 1.00, do not have the .91, its to small

right i have got my turbo out and measured it to prove a point, complete with pictures and tape measure for proof of size of the turbine exit.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/c4452faf.jpg)
 
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/733e3979.jpg)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc507/grantmonkhouse/72144f9f.jpg)
 
 
 
As you can see the V band outer edge does even measure 4", 3 and 3/4 is what i see.
 
I know that we males can get away with telling females that things are bigger than what they actually are but when talking inches between males theres no bull, simple facts, i know im being very .....y here but sometimes you can be wrong Lee.
 
Thanks for the advice you give but your not right about everything

i wasnt calling you a liar dude.

you told me the turbo you had bought was a 177281.

Ive got the BW 2011 catalog in front of me now and for that model number it states that the rear turbine size for that is 4.21in, hear is a picture to show you.
(http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/8278/turbinehousing.jpg)

I assumed with you saying you can get it changed for free you hadnt recieved it yet and got the information wrong, so my apologies, guess the catalogue must be incorrect or they have nicked a turbine housing from a different model, saying that it doesnt list single entry housings as thats old tech now.


with that in mind i think everyone will agree you need to change your rear housing to a larger 1.00 twin entry with 4in exit :)

and mate your not being ....y about it, i was in the wrong


p.s right click image and click view image to see it full size to view in detail better(though it might be my crappy firefox)

ahh yes thats one of the 2 sheets i have got, i will apologise about the measurement as it does say 4.21 on the drawing, So we were both right.
 
Getting the turbine housing changed 2moro hopefully.
 
Bit strange them not giving me the sheet with single scroll info on?? I will double tripple check they hive me the right size housing.
 
Was going to go up to 4" after the downpipe but might aswell be the whole thing

exhaust gas has its most \'energy\' when its under pressure and high temperature.

When you increase the temperature of a gas you increase its size....it expands.

now when the exhaust gas leaves the turbine housing it is at one of its hottest temps(manifold runner is highest)

because of the temp it is at its largest area(m3) per gravimetric weight, so to reduce restriction you want the largest pipe you can fit on the there.

Anyone who tells you different is wrong(for n/a thats different)

so you want the 4inch now, as the exhaust gas travels along the pipes is starts to cool, which means contraction(shrinks) and loses its energy and slows down, if at this point you want to decrease this pipe size then thats fine....obviously to a point, you couldnt downgrade it to 2inch for example.

basically, you want the biggest you can while the exhaust gas is the hottest, try and maintain a 4inch the full length if you can, downgrade to 3-3.5 as late as possible to minimise the effects.


For reference im gonna run a 5in downpipe to a 4in exhaust, also v band it at the point just before it goes 4in so i can fit a 5in side pipe popping out behind the front wheel for pod......saves weight and maybe make a touch more power :)


oh yeh, if you want the full pdf file with all the turbos from BW this year let me know, its got all the spec and compressor maps of the EFR series to have a read if you like

With the volumetric size of the pipe, yes the bigger is better, but you ideally want the air to be travelling at as close to the speed of sound...it cant travel any faster.  So if by going up to a 5" pipe you are miles away from that it is purely unnecessary.  So by increasing the temp you either increase its volume or speed.

I understand what you have mentioned, think we have discussed it before. The way I see an exhaust gas working is from a little lesson I learned at high school about pressure "a gas or liquid that is in an area of higher pressure will always want to go to an area of lower pressure" to equal itself out. So in theory a staged exhaust, smaller to big, would be good for keeping the velocity up whilst releasing the pressure.

Maybe a couple of variable restrictor in an exhaust would be good? Help buil the pressure to maintain velocity.

I read a person findings on na exhaust systems on his v8, and he found that he could reduce the lengths of the runners and overall length of the exhaust by essentially tricking the exhaust, basically he took the headers to a box where this box acted as though it had vented the exhaust to atmosphere, then had a large diameter exhaust to the rear.

I wish I knew where I read it as it was brilliant for understanding na exhaust systems. I think he benefitted at low rpms more than high. Some of this stuff could be applied over to us turbo guys as if you can achieve great power without them then I beleive the benefits with a turbo would be even greater than just bolting a huge turbo on there.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590&page=15

^ You can have too big a turbo :driving

I try my best to illustrate this with real world examples and tests, I implore people to take their time and read through the information to decipher what is FAST and what is just as FAST with allot less BS :mmmm

For people who don\'t like reading I challenge anyone to show me a 13B fitted with anything bigger than a T04 turbo that is FAST behind an OEM 5 speed gearbox :Talking1

Sure you may make 700bhp in a peak blip (if you are lucky) but on the road it will be a nugget :yes

Always enjoy reading your aquamist thread Peter. Wish I could understand half of the data you put on there. Still Very interesting.

I think my BW turbo is along the same spec as yours. I think mine can flow 70lbs of air/min. Is this roughly the same of yours?

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;751304Always enjoy reading your aquamist thread Peter. Wish I could understand half of the data you put on there. Still Very interesting.

I think my BW turbo is along the same spec as yours. I think mine can flow 70lbs of air/min. Is this roughly the same of yours?

I am not familiar with them though almost every week someone around the world is E-Mailing or calling me telling they are running them and want to know what it will be like as a street car..... I just tell them to get something equivalent to a T04Z.

I have shown the above to deliver the goods on average power and outright speed with proven levels of "back pressure" where others seem to just talk about it without any real engineering data to back up the talk. :Talking1

When you get around to testing yours I\'d be happy to hear what you find out, always good to learn of other alternatives to the venerable Garrett T04 standard setter.

I try to make the graphs as esay as possible to understand, the particular one I like is the Stock Std Spirit R Type A acceleration from ~4500rpm to 7000rpm V\'s my T04 equipped car :mmmm less than half the time, half the distance, same weight, same car type, recorded same gearing, and measured double the power across all rpm ranges worth mentioning in a performance car...................... not sure what more sane people could ask for :2Confused

Lee iv just been to AET and asked about the measurement given on the spec sheets for the twin scroll turbine exit size. Just to make sure I would be getting the right one. And apParently the BW turbos are actually designed for agricultural applications.

So they actually come from the factory with a strange v band attachment on them that is no use in a car because of it\'s size. And at AET when a customer orders a turbo they remove that flange and put on a suitable v band clamp. And the correct size is for that turbo is 3".

I asked about the s400 exhaust size and that is a 4.5" v band exit but that\'s what I would expect for something so big.

Just thought you would like to know.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;751297I understand what you have mentioned, think we have discussed it before. The way I see an exhaust gas working is from a little lesson I learned at high school about pressure "a gas or liquid that is in an area of higher pressure will always want to go to an area of lower pressure" to equal itself out. So in theory a staged exhaust, smaller to big, would be good for keeping the velocity up whilst releasing the pressure.

Maybe a couple of variable restrictor in an exhaust would be good? Help buil the pressure to maintain velocity.

I read a person findings on na exhaust systems on his v8, and he found that he could reduce the lengths of the runners and overall length of the exhaust by essentially tricking the exhaust, basically he took the headers to a box where this box acted as though it had vented the exhaust to atmosphere, then had a large diameter exhaust to the rear.

I wish I knew where I read it as it was brilliant for understanding na exhaust systems. I think he benefitted at low rpms more than high. Some of this stuff could be applied over to us turbo guys as if you can achieve great power without them then I beleive the benefits with a turbo would be even greater than just bolting a huge turbo on there.

Ok mate, im afraid you are incorrect on this hypothesis, a turbocharger forces air into an engine and what goes in must come out, that means that the engine is forcing air out of its cylinders/rotor, when you are forcing air through a pipe then the restriction is the biggest problem you will encounter, you should never add a restriction into the system as it will lower the overall VE of the engine.

an easy well used example is a straw...blow through a thin one then blow through a thick one, which flows more air, you are applying pressure and the cross sectional area is working against you.

Now i mentioned in an earlier post that N/A is different than turbos, yes running certain restrictions can help overall torque on these engines under certain circumstances, but then can lower outright power, look at N/A dragcars, you dont see them with exhausts as power is the most important.

you said \'"a gas or liquid that is in an area of higher pressure will always want to go to an area of lower pressure" now while this in itself is true, what do you think a turbine housing does?

It restricts the air into a passage to blow it directly onto the turbine blades which in turn spins. Now at this point you have started to spin the blades, ie the job is done and you want to get the gas out of the turbine housing as fast as possible.

your science now comes into play, you have hot compressed gas around a turbine wheel and wide open pipe under no compression.....what happens.....the gas finds a new low pressure to jump to, the bigger the difference in pressure between the two areas the faster the move......this is the idea of a turbine housing and large downpipe.

After this point the gas has already started to slow down and lose energy so any added restriction in the system will have no effect apart from.

a) increase the pressure in the downpipe hence making the difference between the downpipe and the housing less and slow the gas down

b) slow the air down at the secondary added restriction due to the smaller cross sectional area.

Hope this explains it a little bit for you, just wrote what came out of my head, if you need further explaination, please just ask.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;751383Lee iv just been to AET and asked about the measurement given on the spec sheets for the twin scroll turbine exit size. Just to make sure I would be getting the right one. And apParently the BW turbos are actually designed for agricultural applications.

So they actually come from the factory with a strange v band attachment on them that is no use in a car because of it\'s size. And at AET when a customer orders a turbo they remove that flange and put on a suitable v band clamp. And the correct size is for that turbo is 3".

I asked about the s400 exhaust size and that is a 4.5" v band exit but that\'s what I would expect for something so big.

Just thought you would like to know.

yes, all BW are originally designed for either very larger american diesel tractors or more commonly diesel artic lorries over there.

thats also where garretts originally come from, some people think the t4 on a cosworth or the gt42 was designed for high power petrol engines, nope, again big diesels, its just we found a use for them in our engines.

Personally i wouldnt have wanted AET to touch it because id prefer to make up my own large downpipe that be restricted to just a 3in, especially on a rotary which is known to only use around 75% of the total airflow intake for power and wastes 25% in heat(compared to piston engines) so just to make the same power as a piston engine im gonna have to push 25% more air through the downpipe.

if i was you i would order an unaltered 1.00 t4 twinscroll housing from the cheapest source(maybe US) so you can make a downpipe correct for your application

Dint need to explain it any more. I understand what you wrote. What I wrote earlier was me thinking out loud.

Nice to know someone willing to share turbo knowledge. I will be stepping the exhaust up after the down pipe. Have been reading about the pressure differential on a number of threads, across the turbo. And how people aim for 1-1 or better.

Ahh, so this is a definate go\'er then :)
 
Are you going to be entering all rounds? Make sure to post up how you do.
 
Also make sure you post up the actual figure you get for the cars weight, i\'ll be very interested to see how close you get to your 1000kg target :)

Any updates on this? as I would hope its finished now if your going to make a full season. Good luck on the perreli`s as well!! May be fine for the 4wd boys but on a hot day at brands for example they will go off so quickly on a rwd car!!

First round on 16 th of this month

A lot of talk not much updates? come on pics and progress?

need some more pics before ill do a proper post.

dont worry, when im next down there ill get the pics for you rob.

well the old shell gets stripped down, same to see it all apart but just means we are one step closer to building a monster!!

doors, arches, bumpers and bonnet fitted
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/228035_10150199942411657_643856656_7446093_3027265_n.jpg)
rear bumper on
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226250_10150199942501657_643856656_7446095_5129622_n.jpg)
im impressed with the fitment on all the panels +25mm front +60mm rear
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/222819_10150199942576657_643856656_7446097_1571636_n.jpg)
new mirrors arrived
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226627_10150205864041657_643856656_7495242_3729153_n.jpg)
the old girl after the carnage
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267624_10150245845881657_643856656_7828381_6113690_n.jpg)
rear stripped down
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/267617_10150245845946657_643856656_7828382_1150898_n.jpg)
shows how uneven the floor is, not great for aerodynamics
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/264035_10150245845976657_643856656_7828384_6089625_n.jpg)
on a dolly so it can be moved around, sitting next to its bigger brother
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/262091_10150245846016657_643856656_7828385_5631124_n.jpg)
engine out, already removed the powersteering after this pic, also all the ignition system pulled out as that will be mounted out of the way to keep them cool
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263942_10150245846031657_643856656_7828386_6470802_n.jpg)
bent oil cooler, gonna run 1 single 50 row cooler on the passenger side to cut down on pipes and free up area on the drivers side for airfilters.
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/270446_10150245846066657_643856656_7828387_2846404_n.jpg)
seems my lambda sensor cable had been rubbing, luckily it hasnt broken through the wires, just the outer cabling, just recover and good to go
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260370_10150245846111657_643856656_7828389_6781881_n.jpg)
all stripped off the car, will be all fully cleaned and painted before being put back on, no point putting manky stuff on a clean shell!
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270590_10150245846151657_643856656_7828390_4175220_n.jpg)

thats about it for the moment, i was hoping to get pics of my intercooler setup so will hopefully get them later on this week for people to see.

one step closer to 700bhp/1000kg monster  :)

are you going single straight away then?

that other 7 looks to b about 12" wider than it should be!! i take it that atomics car?

cant straight away as i havent got enough money to cover it but im building the car ready for it.

4in pipes on the intercooler, dual fuel pumps with seperate -8 lines.

basically when i change over ill just bolt the turbo/manifold/wastegate on, make a pipe from turbo to cooler and a 5in downpipe and then map it.

im still holding you for borrowing your datalogit, dont really fancy doing that type of mapping on the commander.....plus its not like i can do mapping on the way to work anymore

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;774004that other 7 looks to b about 12" wider than it should be!! i take it that atomics car?

yes thats jons car, its gonna be a beast, its like mine but with no compromise anywhere, carbon everything and one piece front end........im sure jon would put up a build thread on it if we asked nicely, its a good advert for his business

yes he should, race car builds always have the coolest stuff,
 
yes sure datalogging will be fine, just let me know when and we can arange to meet up

ill be going down at the end of the month, ill get a few photos while im there

will you now?  I might not let you take any photos!!

Quote from: AtomicRex;774379will you now? I might not let you take any photos!!

i think he meant of his own car. come on atomic show us your car and plans, you dony have to do lots of writing, pictures are always better. good for business too i would imagine?;););)

lots happening.....new engine is going on the dyno soon....hopefully this will produce the power we are looking for.
 
As with everything it all takes time :(

ill get my misses to distract you with offers of bevereges while i go rampant with my camera, sell the pics to all the teams in the GT series your gonna race in to pay the bill!

any news today, send me an email


grant ill be going to take pics of my completed car, if my camera just so happens to catch the edges of another racecar then that will be unfortunate conicidence!!

Your subframes are currently away being powder coated....all of the suspension bushes have been removed.  We are going to shot blast them next week, and then mid next week the subframes can be bolted into place along with all of the new suspension arms. :)  Can get the engine into place as well.

cool, at this rate it should be able to move under its own steam next month

Mind me asking how much the cleaning and powdercoating of the subframes is costing and same with the shotblasting of the arms? what are you doing with the arms to stop them oxidizing?

rob

Powder Coated items :)
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1371.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1372.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1373.JPG)

ooooo shiny!!

ill be lapping combe in no time!!

when will you need to the dash by as i know it wont be that long until you start looking at wiring, end of the month?

ooh, i like the powder coating. hmm, Jon can you let me know what kind of price we are looking at.
saw the orange shell yesterday, it looks fantastic in the flesh, the wings and bonnet in particular are very nice looking without being OTT. still not sure about the bumper, but I know exactly why you are doing it.

A few updates
 
The car is getting built up first prior to going for paint, so ignore the paint work at the moment!
 
Engine in
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1385.JPG)
 
Rad and Intercooler fitted
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1388.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1391.JPG)
 
Suspension Cleaned and bushes fitted
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1392.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1393.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1394.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1395.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1396.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1397.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1398.JPG)
 
The front built up
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1412.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1413.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1414.JPG)

What\'s with the end tanks on the ic, will that work ? Won\'t you get air flow problems.


Keith

of course it will, the air is getting forced through by the turbos, no getting sucked through. he has moddifies the end tanks so that when Lee goes to a single turbo the inlets and outlets match the turbo outlet

is there any strength lost by removint the cross piece that goes where the IC now is?

We are going to be bracing it elsewhere to take its place....but apart from that nope :)

i was thinking you would, a strut brace is the obvious choice.
 
does the car only need bracing at the furthest forward point of the  steering and suspension as i would think anything beyond that point isnt actually integral to the structural strength of the car?

Yes, we do our own strut brace now, very stiff!! pha nah pha nah
 
I am of the opinion that you need to look after the 4 critical points which are the strut towers.  As this is everything you need to control.  Keeping them in place is crucial as otherwise the dampers aren\'t able to do their job!  Also it is impossible to calculate how they are going to act when the suspension goes through its motion.
 
So normally I would say anything in front or behind is irrelevant.  However you need to make sure there is no lozenging in the chassis legs.  This should be lessened by the subframe, but obviously any extra bracing will help.  But there is no point in going OTT!

the end tanks on the IC dont seem to be suffieient enough in size, its like putting a massive exhause on a nova and expecting big power,its the old saying of what goes in has to come out and if there is a restriction in the way its just going to struggle.

rest of the build looks good so far.

maybe the  pictures are just deceptive? Lee\'s last intercooler was about ten feet thick! LOL. so the restriction will be reduced due to thickness??

Turbo toaster, do you think you will be wanting to use my dataloggit to map the car on the twins?
 
if so where will we doing it? i would assume down by Atomics somewhere?

Dave....Ive done my sums!
 
It is plenty big enough, the intercooler is 110mm thick!

remember though that the intercooler is 120mm thick, so even though the end tanks have a quite narrow width. they make up for it in depth


the area of the end tank is 6000mm2, also remembering that air will be filtering into the core as it enters the end tank which will have an effect, so its not like a big tube to a little tube(hour glass scenerio)

the internal area of 4in pipe is around 7500mm2 so its not really much of a restriction.

remember most people run 3inch pipe up to big power which is 4185mm2 so even though it may look like theres a restriction, this was the best way to do it to get fitment and flow.

running a big borg warner turbo means ill need the flow, im going down the similar tactic of what james willday has done, make power by increased flow, not increased boost, yes you loose some torque but at 1.5bar it should be pretty ample.

Speaking to a guy in america about building me an inlet with a 4inch throttle body, hopefully will make it a bit of screamer

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;777230Turbo toaster, do you think you will be wanting to use my dataloggit to map the car on the twins?
 
if so where will we doing it? i would assume down by Atomics somewhere?

im not sure how long it will be until its complete, all depends on how much money i will have left, living in stoke means your lucky if you arnt on the dole and earning minumim wage means and having my own place means you cant throw thousands around like its going out of fashion.

ill use my map i did thats on it at the moment as thats good for 20psi of boost, but it will need some tweaking for the new car, the issue i have is its not a road car anymore so i cant map while going to work and back, sounds like me and you will have to find a "private test track" to do some mapping.

one thing im dreading is wheels and tyres, im looking at £1100 for the wheels, but i do have a contact for used porsche cup slicks so that might help keep the costs down.

fully understand, i will see the progress of your car through here so i will know when you will be contacting me. lol.
 
"private test track"? dear god, ok il go buy a helmet just incase. LOL

i seriously need to stop using \'LOL\' in my replies. LOL

If you want to come down here....I have access to a private test track :) I can use the airfield for runs where I go gliding. As long as we dont take the p1ss!
 
The cross sectional area of the end tank is 11880 mm2 This goes down to 3740mm2 however you are losing 660mm2 into each tubilator. So it is perfectly matched to the size of the inlet which has a cross sectional area of 7390mm2.

I have just been thinking about all that spare space there is behind the radiator now, are you going to be mounting the single turbo sideways, so to speak, and run the down pipe down and around the front of the engine, and then out back?
 
i sure would and it would look brilliant, also helps with placing the pre turbo WI in a good place, hope everyone understands, as i dont have a clue how to draw what im explaining

Oil Cooler fitted now :)
 
Just waiting on lee to decide on the splitter he is running for the lower brace
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Project%20Cars/Lee%20Connor%20Orange%20FD/IMG_1419.JPG)

im guessing your on about something like this.

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282681_10150258320586657_643856656_7953576_157702_n.jpg)

running the downpipe on the other side compared to normal means you dont have to wiggle around the steering rack or the wastegate.

i have never seen anyone do it like this but it makes sense to me .

the only issue you may have is it blocking access to the spark plugs

i see what your saying jon, what temps are you expecting with this set up, want to get mine down if i can,
 
keith

well since its the same as my old intercooler i can give a rough guide on temps.


20psi of boost on stock twins,
10c air temps, 19c intake temp
15c air temp, 24c intake temp

now that wasnt ducted, with proper ducting im not expecting better temps since twins dont flow massive amount of air, but when im running a massive turbo then the ducting should improve over my old setup

also water temps were fine, 82c-83c crusing on motorway, up to 88c when i was pushing hard

Quote from: turbotoaster;777295im guessing your on about something like this.
 
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/282681_10150258320586657_643856656_7953576_157702_n.jpg)
 
running the downpipe on the other side compared to normal means you dont have to wiggle around the steering rack or the wastegate.
 
i have never seen anyone do it like this but it makes sense to me .
 
the only issue you may have is it blocking access to the spark plugs

that is exactly what i mean!! reduced IC piping. if you put a vband on the exhaust, chnging the plugs wouldnt be a problem. plus you have removed the power steering right? more room for exhaust and access to plugs.
 
only downside means having a custom turbo manifold built, which costs money??

Not to mention the heat transfer to the intercooler etc by running the exhaust pipe past them

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;777309that is exactly what i mean!! reduced IC piping. if you put a vband on the exhaust, chnging the plugs wouldnt be a problem. plus you have removed the power steering right? more room for exhaust and access to plugs.
 
only downside means having a custom turbo manifold built, which costs money??

im gonna need a custom manifold anyway since the size of the turbo im going to run.

(http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424770&d=1301635188)

this gives you an idea of how big im going turbo wise.

im not running power steering, abs or any driver aids at all.

id try to run the downpipe below the plugs but i dont know the fitment until i have a car infront of me to measure up.

in terms of the manifold, ill just make one up out of plastic ducting to get all the shapes and lengths, order some pipework, then get someone to weld it together.

That will be the cheapest way i can think of doing it


as you said jon, you have concern yourself with heat transfer, but saying that, you have a red hot radiator sitting between your downpipe and intercooler so it really shouldnt make a difference.

Of course the intercooler and radiator should never come into contact, i ran 10mm gap between them to stop heat soak which helped.

the only thing you may have to concern yourself is the downpipe heat rising to the inlet pipe from the intercooler to the intake manifold, but you should be wrapping your downpipe or if your feeling rich, coating it to keep the heat away.

Quote from: AtomicRex;777314Not to mention the heat transfer to the intercooler etc by running the exhaust pipe past them

yes  but dont forget the downpipe is right next to the LIM on a rotary so its heating stuff up there, this is solved with heat shielding, which could be done much easier around the front of the engine, ceramic coating, exhaust wrap, plus the air flow through the engine bay will take the heat away, and i would also imagine heat soak isnt so much a big deal when its a racing car? no stopping and starting in traffic etc

also to stop heat from rising up from the exhaust you could run WI after the turbo too, extra colled air?

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;777326also to stop heat from rising up from the exhaust you could run WI after the turbo too, extra colled air?

can you explain that a little grant as what you said doesnt make sense.

running water injection between the intercooler and throttle body will slow the burn process down and lower EGTs but not the the point of stopping heat rising from the downpipe

i just meant conteracting the heat rising from the downpipe up to the IC outlet pipe by just chucking a little extra water in there.
 
in essence you would have pre turbo WI giving huge denser air = more oxygen to burn in the engine, then you have the IC cooling it further, just a little bit, then post turbo WI to further cool air temp, the secondary WI could be activated if a certain air temp is reached.
 
this would be a bit like RIce Racings setup except he uses an external water sprayer to cool his IC if he reaches a certain air temp.
 
this is the only way i can think of adding an extra spray of water for coolling internally as in a race car an external sprayer isnt allowed as it is classed as fluid leaking, obviously you dont tell anyone if you do an external sprayer

even if you were to run your exhaust like were suggesting then heat wrap and adequate ducting would stop any heat from rising to the IC piping, but as stated before its a race car, it wont be sat still long enough to heat soak will it?

nice looking build but the intercooler does seem to be a compromise for the power you want. Keeping intake temps low is fairly easy,  its getting one to flow enough air through it and keep temps low.  Even if you kept your core, and just remade the end tanks it would be better.  When its running, put a boost gauge on each side, it will be interesting to see the pressure drop.

You can do as many measurements as you like, it cant measure how something will flow.

I do agree with you that running the twins the intercooler is going to be overkill, but we have made it to Lee\'s request, so it is what it is!
 
Once the bigger turbo is on, I don\'t see the flow being inhibited that badly. But I do agree it would be advisable to put on a couple of pressure sensors and test the pressure drop....that wouldn\'t show the flow though. You can have pressure without flow, as demonstrated with fuel or water systems. And air can be considered to be a liquid, so the same goes there.

one way to look at it is this, if worst case scenerio when im running a massive turbo we find there is a restriction, its just a case of cutting the end piece of the end tank and extending it outwards.

Since it is a replica of my old intercooler that worked so well, im confident that it should be fine, but as you say, if any changes need to be done in the future its not a massive drop

there is alot of talk about the cooler here, the thickness of the cooler doesnt mean its going to do a better job than a thinner one of a better internal construction.
if its a cheap chinese one then it wont be all that good as the internal surface area isnt great. on the subject of the end tanks, pointless. why arent they flowed to the bottom of the core? you may as well cut it off where the end tanks finish.
i think youll find most big power rotaries run around 4" cold side pipework ;)

Quote from: rbs14a;777441on the subject of the end tanks, pointless. why arent they flowed to the bottom of the core? you may as well cut it off where the end tanks finish.

This was my first thought when I looked at the photograph.  The bottom corners are just going to be full of stagnant air, which would effectively reduce the efficiency of the intercooler as your frontal area is no longer being completely utilised to cool the charge that\'s passing though.  
 
Admittedly it\'s hard to get full useage of the area due to the charge needing to be turned by 90 degrees to enter the core, but I would have thought you could get the majority of that out of the way by having full length end tanks?

Another thought on the exhaust idea is the exhaust has to pass the fuel lines and the starter motor and then pass back over to the correct side. Seen that kind of setup you talking about but with the exhaust still on the drivers side and WI pre turbo and the turbo connected straight to the manifold (a 1st gen drag car)

Shaun

Quote from: od404;777473This was my first thought when I looked at the photograph. The bottom corners are just going to be full of stagnant air, which would effectively reduce the efficiency of the intercooler as your frontal area is no longer being completely utilised to cool the charge that\'s passing though.
 
Admittedly it\'s hard to get full useage of the area due to the charge needing to be turned by 90 degrees to enter the core, but I would have thought you could get the majority of that out of the way by having full length end tanks?

I think we are concentrating a little too much on the intercooler....lets see how well it works when the car is finished :)
 

Quote from: shaunwil;777510Another thought on the exhaust idea is the exhaust has to pass the fuel lines and the starter motor and then pass back over to the correct side. Seen that kind of setup you talking about but with the exhaust still on the drivers side and WI pre turbo and the turbo connected straight to the manifold (a 1st gen drag car)
 
Shaun

I think Im really missing something here....but why would you want to? As long as the turbo is low enough and far enough away from the LIM then what is wrong with it in its standard place?
 
We have removed the standard pedal box so that has created a lot more room in that area. It seems to becoming overlly complicated here!
 
Remember the car Homer designed?
 
(http://onscreencars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TheHomer.jpg)

i just mainly thought that running the exhaust across the front would look good!!:Giggle:Giggle and it makes the piping into the IC easier, just a little straight piece. instead of 90*bends that a lot of people get carried away with saying that "they will restrict flow...blah blah blah" etc.
 
you could just get one of these Lee for when you get the man size turbo
http://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=199&zenid=502920e07fc27e4d24fea653448d14b5
 that would fill the gap nicely and you could run the exhaust down the original side of the engine??
 
and you could just attach that charge cooler onto the turbo, even less piping.

Quote from: shaunwil;777510Another thought on the exhaust idea is the exhaust has to pass the fuel lines and the starter motor and then pass back over to the correct side. Seen that kind of setup you talking about but with the exhaust still on the drivers side and WI pre turbo and the turbo connected straight to the manifold (a 1st gen drag car)
 
Shaun

iv seen that car, i think runs on methanol though so theyre not too worried about heat.
 
that would be seriously awesome to drive, instant boost probably!!:rollin:burnout:burnout

Quote from: AtomicRex;777516I think Im really missing something here....but why would you want to? As long as the turbo is low enough and far enough away from the LIM then what is wrong with it in its standard place?

I was completely agreeing. My downpipe is close to the LIM, with some ceramic coating on the Turbo and Down pipe and a heat blocker coating on the LIM I haven\'t seen any silly temp rises from the setup. I\'ve been more concerned about my filter position, need to get colder air at the start of the process.

Shaun

Quote from: shaunwil;777510Another thought on the exhaust idea is the exhaust has to pass the fuel lines and the starter motor and then pass back over to the correct side. Seen that kind of setup you talking about but with the exhaust still on the drivers side and WI pre turbo and the turbo connected straight to the manifold (a 1st gen drag car)

Shaun

why would you send it back over the drivers side, seems a strange direction change and its just adding more bends into the mix.

If your going to all the hassle of building a race car then i wouldnt run the stock fuel tank, this removes any blockages from running the exhaust on the passenger side.


what ive been thinking about today is a exhausts with my stock turbos.

being honest without fitting big boxes im never gonna get it to pass noise tests at different trackdays and the money i earn means ill only be able to do maybe 6 a year.

with that in mind i might just run an open downpipe with a little 90* downward angle at the end, i dont live far from donnington and they have days with no noise limit(about 6 a year)

It would keep the weight and price down and allow me to run more power due to less restriction(less EBP)

Quote from: turbotoaster;777554If your going to all the hassle of building a race car then i wouldnt run the stock fuel tank, this removes any blockages from running the exhaust on the passenger side.

Except the floorpan.

erm... i thought this "race car" was being built for time attack?? thats what you said anyway?

i dont think it matters what he uses the car for, as like with most people, it comes down to money.
 
i think its a good project for everyone to see regardless of what he does with the car, most people compromise when building RX7\'s, whereas this is being buillt for racing only as it wont be street legal without lights etc.
 
when people compromise so that they can do everything, drag, drift, race, daily drive, weekend toy they end up with something that doesnt reach the full potential of what their car could be, i know i compromised with my last FD simply because it was a uk spec car, but if i knew then that it would only be worth the same as any other rx7 when i sold it i would have done it completely differently, interior would have gone straight away, roll cage in, i would have cut the arches to take on a wide kit etc, but because i wanted it to remain possible to turn back to standard, it never was what i could have made it.
 
Lee\'s car however is a no compromise car in my eyes, for one purpose only. RACING, in what ever form takes his fancy.

im not disputing that fact, it just seems a lot of things are being said as gospel then it gets forgotten...

couple months back it was being made for time attack... tyres etc were discussed was looking forward to seeing that but now its just a road car and track day car?

Quote from: MaLicE;777623erm... i thought this "race car" was being built for time attack?? thats what you said anyway?

well time attack is technically racing, even though really its a glorified qually session.

But at the time i didnt realise the new control tyres would be as bad as they are and dont come in the sizes i want.

Hence i need to look at what i can realistically afford to do with it.

Cant afford to put on the road as its a waste of money, id never use it and the cost of lights, insurance, tax, mot, set of road wheels and tyres will cost me about 4k, thats money i dont have at the moment.

Id rather just use it on a few trackdays a year when i have the spare change.

then maybe next year i can get into racing when i have set the car up properly and know what i can afford.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;777641i dont think it matters what he uses the car for, as like with most people, it comes down to money.
 
i think its a good project for everyone to see regardless of what he does with the car, most people compromise when building RX7\'s, whereas this is being buillt for racing only as it wont be street legal without lights etc.
 
when people compromise so that they can do everything, drag, drift, race, daily drive, weekend toy they end up with something that doesnt reach the full potential of what their car could be, i know i compromised with my last FD simply because it was a uk spec car, but if i knew then that it would only be worth the same as any other rx7 when i sold it i would have done it completely differently, interior would have gone straight away, roll cage in, i would have cut the arches to take on a wide kit etc, but because i wanted it to remain possible to turn back to standard, it never was what i could have made it.
 
Lee\'s car however is a no compromise car in my eyes, for one purpose only. RACING, in what ever form takes his fancy.

im hoping when its finished that it will be a \'jack of all trades\' so i can go drag racing as well as circuit work, hence why im so anal about weight, jon knows that if the car weighs more than 999kg ill not be impressed.

the final aim is this

1.5 60 fts and high 9 quarters
1.5 lateral g on track
200mph at bruntingthorpe
sub 1000kg(excluding driver)

alot of people will think im talking out of my arse, but as people can see from the build so far, its not like i havent dont much to it.

Quote from: MaLicE;777648im not disputing that fact, it just seems a lot of things are being said as gospel then it gets forgotten...

couple months back it was being made for time attack... tyres etc were discussed was looking forward to seeing that but now its just a road car and track day car?

time attack is mentioned above, plus i refuse on principle to have to buy the tyres from a company that are more expensive than the normal retail price, they should be discounted, not the other way around!

ill still be running 18x10 front and 18x12 on the rear, but most likely slicks as i can get them cheaper than track semi slicks.


its a track/race car, doubt ill put it on the road as id never use it.


will write a little update on the ignition system im ordering aswell as custom dash, clocks when jon puts some more pics up

Any idea what the car weighed when jon raced it?

With the Seibon parts it was weighing in at just over 1000kgs.  Our GRP parts are actually lighter so im hoping it will bring the weight sub 1000kgs :)

is there a difference in weight between wet and dry carbon?
 
what is the choice between carbon & GRP? the fact that  carbon is stronger and doesnt break easily, or choose GRP because it easier to repare?
 
when i said Racing Turbotoaster i did mean any kind, just meant that the car isnt going to be built soft to take abuse on the roads as a street legal car.

\'dry\' carbon, or Pre-preg as its proper name means that the carbon fiber comes with the correct amount of  resin already added to the fabric, Pre-Impregnated.  It\'s usually stored  in rolls, in a cold environment to stop the resin from curing.

this means theres the minimum resin required to make the part you want, compared to \'wet\' which you add the resin yourself which as you can imagine isnt accurate and you end up adding more which makes it heavier that a \'dry\' version.

For me i went with GRP because its cheaper as i cant afford carbon, plus if i do take it properly racing and start rubbing paint with someone else then replacement panels are cheaper or easier to fix.

Well jon said my dash is now in so its starting to look like a car, mine is GRP again to save money, ill either spray it matt black or flock it to avoid glare, id like it flocking but need to get some quotes to see if i can afford it
I can do it myself with a kit for £20 but then i want it to be durable by using electrostatics

Flocking isn\'t expensive, I used some guys who run a rally car (and sell rally car bits) that aren\'t too far from you north near chester.

They are //www.MDA-Motorsport.co.uk

Shaun

You are correct on the prepreg apart from it needs to be kept in a freezer!  If you are careful with the amount of resin used and like us "vac-bag" the items  this brings the weight of the items down to pretty much the same weight.

Your dash has already been painted a Matt black. We were thinking of painting it a nice gloss ;-). Would be fun in the sun :-) lol

Get some more photos up next week :-). Wiring starts in Ernest next week!!

whos Ernest? :P

Quote from: shaunwil;777781Flocking isn\'t expensive, I used some guys who run a rally car (and sell rally car bits) that aren\'t too far from you north near chester.

They are www.MDA-Motorsport.co.uk (http://www.mda-motorsport.co.uk)

Shaun

cheers for the info, might call upon them in the future!

Quote from: AtomicRex;777786You are correct on the prepreg apart from it needs to be kept in a freezer!  If you are careful with the amount of resin used and like us "vac-bag" the items  this brings the weight of the items down to pretty much the same weight.

Your dash has already been painted a Matt black. We were thinking of painting it a nice gloss ;-). Would be fun in the sun :-) lol

Get some more photos up next week :-). Wiring starts in Ernest next week!!

Well that saves flocking then.....oooo a lovely gloss black, my gf can do her makeup in the reflection while im trying to take camp corner flat!

I did read about using a freezer but my mate said you can get away with a fridge if its set for under 5c hence me putting cold environment, i might get him to teach me how to make some parts for mine.

He makes good dinner wear!

(http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz54/warrencraig/25062011625.jpg)

Quote from: marco;777788whos Ernest? :P

hes their wire making spider, used to make webs but since the recession has had to get a job to pay the bills, those grasshopper landlords charge a fortune!!

Quote from: shaunwil;777781Flocking isn\'t expensive, I used some guys who run a rally car (and sell rally car bits) that aren\'t too far from you north near chester.
 
They are www.MDA-Motorsport.co.uk (http://www.mda-motorsport.co.uk)
 
Shaun

i can highly recommend these guys to as i took my RX4 dashboard over there to get it flocked and repaired. they delivered it back to me for around £20 as that is how much it would have been for me to drive over there and pick it up.
 
Best thing about these guys is that they do business on an evening during the week, and on weekends. unlike most people as it is their hobby.

a spider with grosshopper land lords? must be a wimpy spider then as they would normally eat grosshoppers?

ill tell ernest that!!!

Just because hes a small for his breed doesnt mean you can start calling him names!


Oh yeh, sorted out my new ignition system yesterday, same one as race onlys who runs 34psi on pump fuel with 1600cc of water.

Its not cheap but its a fit and forget system, plus all being new will mean making the wiring loom easier.

You still going down the hks route?

yes going with the twin power for now. as Carl has said he has achieved 600HP on the standard system with the twin power, and acheiving that level in the rx4 will be mental, as its close to 1000kg as standard
 
will build up a stronger system for WI whilst i am enjoying the car. but with improving the ignition i will have to go for a different ECU in the future, and if i go for an ecu that has 3 rotor capability, then that will open option for the future too;)

yep, its 600bhp capable, infact i think ive seen close to 700bhp in the US on a twin power, but that was on C16 with no w/i so the ignition isnt worked that hard.

im going for dynatek ignition system, thing is, the full kit is £321 from america yet to buy it in the uk it costs nearly £500 so im gonna contact the US site and try and buy it that way.


oooo triple rotor, how far are you away from getting your car done anyway, much left to do?

You may find by the time you add postage, duty and VAT it won\'t be worth the hassle getting it from USA.

Shaun

Quote from: turbotoaster;777925yep, its 600bhp capable, infact i think ive seen close to 700bhp in the US on a twin power, but that was on C16 with no w/i so the ignition isnt worked that hard.
 
im going for dynatek ignition system, thing is, the full kit is £321 from america yet to buy it in the uk it costs nearly £500 so im gonna contact the US site and try and buy it that way.
 
 
oooo triple rotor, how far are you away from getting your car done anyway, much left to do?

just waitning on the engine, and painting a few things, but lack of time and needing everything im doint to the car being prety much custom, its going to take longer than  it normally would, have got to make custom hubs to fit FD disks and calipers which take time, i have drawn them up and have the ali ready to do them, just need some bearings to measure then can get them cut on a lathe.
 
iv been offered a 3 rotor block but cant go spending money on that when i have a 2 rotor bridge port being built right now.

i would update my thread on the car but i cant be bothered. the next update i do will be when i have it running, then the next after that will be when it has been dyno\'d.
 
i have learnt a lot doing my car, and where to find stuff that actually fits the car as there isnt much in the way of performance parts available for them, so have had to find bits from other cars that fit, which is bloody annoying, and can cost money if it doesnt fit.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;777933i would update my thread on the car but i cant be bothered. the next update i do will be when i have it running, then the next after that will be when it has been dyno\'d.
 
i have learnt a lot doing my car, and where to find stuff that actually fits the car as there isnt much in the way of performance parts available for them, so have had to find bits from other cars that fit, which is bloody annoying, and can cost money if it doesnt fit.

Please update yours it\'ll spur me on to get started on mine :)

rear suspension and transmission fitted, rear pumpkin is being shot blasted and painted
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/226170_10150268367276657_643856656_8058171_446721_n.jpg)
GRP doors, bit dusty currently, but very light!
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/250381_10150268367461657_643856656_8058175_1185746_n.jpg)
GRP dash, turns out its identical weight to the carbon version which is nice
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284917_10150268367576657_643856656_8058177_3774561_n.jpg)
nice and wide at the rear
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/223162_10150268387781657_643856656_8058438_341131_n.jpg)

Awesome mate.

You just can\'t beat a big rear end on a good body! Lol.

Looks weird underneath with the fuel tank gone. So much space

Dashboard looks awesome too

this is my design for the rear end

(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185361_10150273669826657_643856656_8112979_3435372_n.jpg)

red is fuel tank
dark orange is the chassis/boot floor
light orange is the bumper
black is the subframe
dark grey is exhaust
light grey is diffuser

the exhaust will be a 4inch bore with a 12inch diameter silencer, it will exit into the diffuser for that \'blown diffuser\' look, should hopefully keep the noise down

the diffuser will be made out of ali i think as its cheap and easy to bend to shape, plus can take the heat, i will cut the rear bumper to make space for it and the dotted line shows the venturies.

Im planning on it sticking past the rear bumper buy 3-4inches to help with seperation.

we test fitted 18x12 et15s on the rear and they fit so im gonna run 335 tyres, hopefully 99% of the time ill be power limited, not grip limited

how much was the cleaning/powder coating on the arms/subframes?

when you planning on going single tub?

With the exhaust being under the fuel tank will it not heat it up? Obviously you can heat shield it etc but I would imagine it will still get hot?

Surely hot fuel won\'t be as good as cold fuel? Mind you, you could always run your fuel lines through a part of the water tank for your WI to take some if the heat away. I do believe Rice Racing does that?

potentially but i will like you have insulate it from some of the heat, it maybe in the future i fit a small fin type fuel cooler but only if needed, id probably fit that next to the gearbox where the fuel lines come into the engine bay.

your right that hot fuel isnt as good as cool fuel because theres more chance of auto-ignition, i havent worked out the figures yet though at what level of temp increase becomes heavily detrimental to that yet.

My extra tank might be carrying methanol, its cheaper than buying race fuel.

I havent decided whether to chuck loads of water or meth at the problem yet, water is free and i have an ignition system that will laugh at it, plus its a bit safer

Rob - ill ring jon today and ask for you, have you tried ringing him for a price?

no i\'ve already done mine to be honest but with a drill and wire wheel lol, just wanted to see what it cost to pay someone as its a dirty old job!

have you still got your old car there? dont suppose you still have the bonnet catch cable?

yeh the old shell is still there, once we get to the point where the car is nearly finished ill let everyone have a free for all on all the parts as it will help me pay for this build.

i would imagine the cable will be fine, but didnt look to see if its still in the car or if its been used.

Best thing to do is ring jon if your after a load of bits as the shell, interior and wiring is pretty much complete.

Please don\'t take this the wrong way but your doing some massive work to the car and its progressing really well but have you considered the squidgy bit in the drivers seat.

Is it worth getting more instructions for such a monster car out on track. The last thing I\'d want to see is you to bin the car down to lack of experience.

Shaun

Im interested in your fuel tank, jon supply it? size etc has it a built in swirl pot etc?cost?

yeh rob it was made by them, its quite a good idea behind the design as it means you dont have to run a seperate swirl pot and lift pump which cuts down on weight.

the only way you could get fuel surge is either running the tank down to less than 1/2litre of fuel which would be very rare or if the car flips on its roof.

the benefit of this setup is ill be able to use the minimum amount of fuel required to complete a race which again keeps the weight down.

this is basically how it works

its a 60ltr tank with a 1litre swirl pot being picked up by 2 x 044s though -8 lines, fuel cap is in the B pillar which runs to the front top left corner of the tank for filling

(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/294814_10150292440081657_643856656_8287116_15035_n.jpg)


any questions?

Where did yuo get the front wide fender? I\'m searching something like that...

another question how do you know how much fuel is in the tank?

If it doesn\'t start, that means it\'s empty ;) I would imagine filling it to the brim before e every race/event will be the best way to make sure you don\'t run out of fuel.

Does the fuel tank have foam inside it too to stop the fuel sloshing around? Or is it baffled?

Quote from: RobMatthews;786560another question how do you know how much fuel is in the tank?

im running an ETB digidash2 that comes with a fuel level sensor so ill stick that in the tank.

since the tank is rectangular it will be pretty easy to give an accurate reading of the whats in the tank

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;786565If it doesn\'t start, that means it\'s empty ;) I would imagine filling it to the brim before e every race/event will be the best way to make sure you don\'t run out of fuel.

Does the fuel tank have foam inside it too to stop the fuel sloshing around? Or is it baffled?

dont think ill be running that low that it wont start......can you imagine going racing and running out of fuel, how embarrasing would that be, especially if you only had to cover quarter of a mile, hey blitz;)

You would log injector duty for one lap of where ever your racing, calculate used fuel, then times it by the amount of laps(add one extra for cooldown/warmup lap)

Im not currently sure whats inside the tank, been trying to ring jon all day but sounds like hes busy moving shop so dont want to pester him to much

picked up new item today, since funds are limited im holding off on the big turbo until ive got the funding in place.

So i bought myself a knightsports twin pipe downpipe off a member on here.

This should help with reducing back pressure, egts and exhaust gas recirc on the compression stroke which holds off potential det and in turn increases the overall VE of the engine.

If im going to be running upwards of 20psi again on track i want to help everything as much as i can.

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/301215_10150294935341657_643856656_8309978_1861650_n.jpg)

hopefully help with spool aswell as non-seq twins are pretty lazy

Good choice of downpipe for twins, mazdaspeed done one the same.
Bloody lovely.

Never seen one of those before, looks good! are you going to run a full system to the rear then too? and are you going to run the 2 pipes into one big one?

Quote from: turbotoaster;786573im running an ETB digidash2 that comes with a fuel level sensor so ill stick that in the tank.
 
since the tank is rectangular it will be pretty easy to give an accurate reading of the whats in the tank
 
 
 
dont think ill be running that low that it wont start......can you imagine going racing and running out of fuel, how embarrasing would that be, especially if you only had to cover quarter of a mile, hey blitz;)
 
You would log injector duty for one lap of where ever your racing, calculate used fuel, then times it by the amount of laps(add one extra for cooldown/warmup lap)
 
Will you need the data loggit software nd black box to do this?
 
Im not currently sure whats inside the tank, been trying to ring jon all day but sounds like hes busy moving shop so dont want to pester him to much

I recently watched a programme called "a chopper is born" and they showed how they set up the fuel tank and fuel gauge, basically they filled the tank to the top, the fuel needle went beyond full, so an adjuster screw is tweaked until the fuel needle was on the full mark, then for the empty mark they removed the sensor out of the tank until it was nearly out of the fuel and adjusted the screw so that it landed on the Empty mark, so im sure the digidash will have something along the same lines, and if you measure how much the tank has in it at the full mark you should roughly know how many miles you have left in the tank at any given point.
 
i will check on you tube to see if that particular episode is there, then you can see exactly what i mean.

at the end if becomes a 3inch pipe to join up to my decat so no need to  change my exhaust, though at the moment with it being a ebay decat(no  silencer) and a trust exhaust its gonna be a bit noisy for track, will  need to have a think about it.

also these have arrived

dynatek ARC-2 CDI Ignition system, good enough to spark 1600cc of water per minute so good enough for me...its fit and forget

(http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/images/category_automotive/products/arc_2/banner/arc-2.jpg)

DigiDash2 Lite, show everything ill ever need, oil temp/oil pressure/coolant temp, ive never used anything like this so im looking forward to learning how to change gear at the right rpm as theres no rev counter

(http://www.etbinstruments.com/Images/DD2-LITE_Brief.jpg)

ill set up some initial things with jons datalogit, things like OMP flow rate, then when i get it home grant we will have to do a bit of mapping, be good for me to show you how simple it is :)

i know its a 60litre tank, but i dont know if that includes the 1litre of the sump, the sump wont be taken into the consideration for the fuel gauge anyway, ill know when i see 0% ill have 1ltr left.

id imagine when i go santa pod ill need 3ltrs of fuel to make a pass, the good thing is the sump is at the back of the tank so under acceleration the fuel is forced into the sump and under braking you dont need to worry so much about fuel flow.


the guy who did that show did quite a few series, my favorite was \'racing car is born\'

that will work well if the tank has a uniform cross section, however if the tank is a more complicated shape then there isnt a linear relationship between fluid depth and volume of fluid. you would have to take a number of values and derive the relationship between the two. still not the end of the world, just one more thing to bare in mind.

Quote from: turbotoaster;786650at the end if becomes a 3inch pipe to join up to my decat so no need to  change my exhaust, though at the moment with it being a ebay decat(no  silencer) and a trust exhaust its gonna be a bit noisy for track, will  need to have a think about it.

also these have arrived

dynatek ARC-2 CDI Ignition system, good enough to spark 1600cc of water per minute so good enough for me...its fit and forget

(http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/images/category_automotive/products/arc_2/banner/arc-2.jpg)

DigiDash2 Lite, show everything ill ever need, oil temp/oil pressure/coolant temp, ive never used anything like this so im looking forward to learning how to change gear at the right rpm as theres no rev counter

(http://www.etbinstruments.com/Images/DD2-LITE_Brief.jpg)

ill set up some initial things with jons datalogit, things like OMP flow rate, then when i get it home grant we will have to do a bit of mapping, be good for me to show you how simple it is :)

i know its a 60litre tank, but i dont know if that includes the 1litre of the sump, the sump wont be taken into the consideration for the fuel gauge anyway, ill know when i see 0% ill have 1ltr left.

id imagine when i go santa pod ill need 3ltrs of fuel to make a pass, the good thing is the sump is at the back of the tank so under acceleration the fuel is forced into the sump and under braking you dont need to worry so much about fuel flow.


the guy who did that show did quite a few series, my favorite was \'racing car is born\'

Yes that\'s the show, strangely my favourite one is , a 4x4 is born, really good engineering, very simple but complex thing working together to do something beyond normal, the articulation in the suspension is Insane!!

I see you have gotten yourself the same ignition as Peter? Well done. Are you getting the coil on plugs too?

Quote from: marco;786652that will work well if the tank has a uniform cross section, however if the tank is a more complicated shape then there isnt a linear relationship between fluid depth and volume of fluid. you would have to take a number of values and derive the relationship between the two. still not the end of the world, just one more thing to bare in mind.

the fuel tank has a uniform cross section, it also has a flat boot as we cut the floor out and fitted a single flat sheet to allow for big diffusers/silencers

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;786666Yes that\'s the show, strangely my favourite one is , a 4x4 is born, really good engineering, very simple but complex thing working together to do something beyond normal, the articulation in the suspension is Insane!!

yep, on the 4x4 when he zinc plated the entire chassis, first time id ever seen anything like it, i was very impressed.

I wonder if i can find the series on a torrent somewhere

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;786667I see you have gotten yourself the same ignition as Peter? Well done. Are you getting the coil on plugs too?

yep, though only really saw how powerful it was from \'raceonly\' in OZ, who is running even more power on pump fuel.

ill be putting my coils where the abs unit used to be, id prefer that so it makes it easier to change plugs.

spoke to jon today, my wiring loom is in progress at the moment and the cdi kit will be intergrated into that, running a custom loom should hopefully again add to the weight loss and my shell is off for paint next week for a couple of weeks so if i dont have anymore pics before then ill get a few when i go down there at the start of october.

got solid ali engine mounts now aswell and pipework on order so its coming along well

Have you seen peters latest update on the aquamist forum? Apparently he has made a "quantum leap" in power and he\'s going to be showing the results as soon as he has installed the new driveline as it producing so much power now!!

Quote from: shaunwil;781570Please don\'t take this the wrong way but your doing some massive work to the car and its progressing really well but have you considered the squidgy bit in the drivers seat.

Is it worth getting more instructions for such a monster car out on track. The last thing I\'d want to see is you to bin the car down to lack of experience.

Shaun

Shaun makes a good point!  Tuning the loose nut holding the wheel probably has as much effect on lap times as the tuning.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;786696Have you seen peters latest update on the aquamist forum? Apparently he has made a "quantum leap" in power and he\'s going to be showing the results as soon as he has installed the new driveline as it producing so much power now!!

dont really go on the aquamist forum, but just had a look after what you said, its interesting that hes got himself up to the 2.1bar of boost on pump fuel now, id imagine hte torque it produces is pretty impressive.

The only way i can imagine he is making even more power now is a change of turbo as at 2.1bar he will be maxing the to4z out.

be good to see him stick a 75mm turbo on there and see how he fairs, he might beat raceonlys 703whp on pump fuel record

how much was the dynatec?

can you run it on stock coils?

:D

Quote from: turbotoaster;786720dont really go on the aquamist forum, but just had a look after what you said, its interesting that hes got himself up to the 2.1bar of boost on pump fuel now, id imagine hte torque it produces is pretty impressive.

The only way i can imagine he is making even more power now is a change of turbo as at 2.1bar he will be maxing the to4z out.

be good to see him stick a 75mm turbo on there and see how he fairs, he might beat raceonlys 703whp on pump fuel record

Yes but don\'t forget he has done some custom work to his turbo that may allow him to achieve higher boost from it. I would imagine that he has done the kind of work too it that tractor pulled guys do to there turbos.

I may email him to see if I can get any more Info.

2.1 bar is mad, think he only allows that kind of boost in 4th gear though as it will destroy any of the other gears

Nice thread and good to meet you on Sunday - I hope the downpipe suits your needs!

One question - where did you get the digidash from as I\'m interested!!


Matt

Quote from: MaLicE;786726how much was the dynatec?

can you run it on stock coils?

the full kit with coils, adapter harness and leads is about £400.

its a cdi kit so you dont run stock coils on it, to be honest i wouldnt  want to even if it saved me the £100 as it would dramatically reduce the  effectiveness of it assuming it would work at all

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;786742:D

Yes but don\'t forget he has done some custom work to his turbo that may  allow him to achieve higher boost from it. I would imagine that he has  done the kind of work too it that tractor pulled guys do to there  turbos.

I may email him to see if I can get any more Info.

2.1 bar is mad, think he only allows that kind of boost in 4th gear though as it will destroy any of the other gears

ah i havent read his thread properly, just briefly skimmed through it so ill have to have a read properly.

alot of the time peter is right but he doesnt come across very well in written word, always seems like hes talking down to you which effects what people think of him, if he chilled out a bit more alot of people would respect him more and listen.

Dont know if ill ever run 2bar of boost on pump fuel, i know ross@dragon can do it but hes been running massive boost on rotarys for years so has loads more experience.

Ive thought about a supra 6 speed box with a 4.7 rear diff, but ill have to see how much the vehicle weighs first as those boxes are quite heavy, even though a rotary will never break one

Quote from: Morrmat;786747Nice thread and good to meet you on Sunday - I hope the downpipe suits your needs!

One question - where did you get the digidash from as I\'m interested!!


Matt

thanks very much for the downpipe, was nice to chat and talk all things rotary, sorry i made you travel that far, felt a bit bad for the distance.

the dash is from ETB

http://www.etbinstruments.com/DD2_Range_Overview.htm

its £350 but comes with everything you could ever need, im looking forward to being able to monitor my engine temps/pressures accurately

Yes Peter can be very abrupt, but you have to remember he\'s an ozzy, they all can Be abrupt in what they say

Is it painted yet?

Will be nearly 2 months and no paint job update? What are they painting it with? Those tiny paint brushes kids get given at nursery or what?

has anyone got a number for lee or friends with him on facebook?? i dont have an account so i carnt look. ive been waiting on a part from him for a while now with no contact. have emailed, pm\'d on various forums etc.

Quote from: karl_tate;798693has anyone got a number for lee or friends with him on facebook?? i dont have an account so i carnt look. ive been waiting on a part from him for a while now with no contact. have emailed, pm\'d on various forums etc.

turbo-toaster@hotmail.co.uk

cheers grant but i have emailed him with no reply as yet

Quote from: karl_tate;798713cheers grant but i have emailed him with no reply as yet

I did have a number for him but it\'s been deleted. Will see if I can retrieve it from my sim card.

selling parts to two different people is outrageous Shame on you turbotoaster

Quote from: TopGear;799645selling parts to two different people is outrageous Shame on you turbotoaster

Apparently he is a single farja struggling with cash lol, M5 on the drive.

Think someone should start a poll, is turdstoaster a robbing git, or just A :spank:spankmisunderstood pikey

i think hes full of BS.
 
and i was going to lend him my data logger stuff to map his car.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;799742i think hes full of BS.
 
and i was going to lend him my data logger stuff to map his car.

And I\'m guessing you would of lost it, :2Mad

Quote from: TRIND-FD;799745And I\'m guessing you would of lost it, :2Mad

the lending would have only happened whilst i was present. no way would i give that to someone and expect it back. cost me an arm and a leg that did.

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;799746the lending would have only happened whilst i was present. no way would i give that to someone and expect it back. cost me an arm and a leg that did.

Lol, hope it wasn\'t your accelerator leg lmao and your gear changing arm:god

thankfully i was blessed with 3 legs!!!

Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;799746the lending would have only happened whilst i was present. no way would i give that to someone and expect it back. cost me an arm and a leg that did.

thats a bit extreem to reduce your weight in the car

Quote from: RobMatthews;799752thats a bit extreem to reduce your weight in the car

needs must! lol
 
you should strip the sound deadening tar out of yours Rob, theres about 2okgs+ on the floor

I think just stripping out all the bodges of filler etc done over the years will save more than that in weight:rollin

Anyway back on topic of finding the fox

Quote from: RobMatthews;799763I think just stripping out all the bodges of filler etc done over the years will save more than that in weight:rollin
 
Anyway back on topic of finding the fox

unleash the hounds of Hell.
 
Cerberus at the ready!!

Bump to the top, any news on this piece of dog turd.

He has been on over on FDUK, surprised nobody picked it up:censored: