Hey Guys,
Firstly I understand this question has been asked a thousand times and I know people are either going to comment asking me to search previous posts or mention don\'t buy an FD if your worried about MPG. :)
I understand all of this and appreciate your comments, I am just curious to know what I should be expecting in comparison to my MR2 Turbo (380 fbhp) to get a heads up. I feel its better to know what I\'m getting myself into before I purchase an FD rather than be stuck when I have it. I know the rough estimates but am not 100% sure what peoples real MPG\'s are for power figures of 300-380 bhp (daily driver)
The car is intended to be used as a daily driver and it will be used for long and short journeys (Mainly short). I understand that short journeys do not suit the engine very well but would appreciate it if someone could elaborate further on this, and possibly explain procedures if making a short journey.
I joined this site a while ago looking to buy a FD3S but never got around to it, now after finishing my MR2 turbo project I am looking into an FD3S. I have researched the rotary engine and have felt these are the only questions left for me to ask before I make my decision to buy the FD3S. I rebuilt my MR2 Turbo myself with uprated pistons, rods, cams, head etc so am proficient enough to work on an engine and learn about the 13B REW.
I appreciate everyones comments and look forward to hearing your answers and if anyone feels to mention anything that would be relevant to using a daily driven FD please do!
Thanks for reading
Regards,
Sanchi :bandit
P.S I still have my MR2 Turbo and am in the process of creating an advert to sell it or strike a deal if anyone is interested. Thanks Also mods not sure if this is in the correct section so please move if you feel need be.
Which part of West London are you from?
sequential turbo in near standard trim you`ll be looking 14>18 mpg. on a run 20mpg at a push.
Quote from: Rzla;732873Which part of West London are you from?
I\'m from near Heathrow, how about yourself?
Quote from: skybusr34;732875sequential turbo in near standard trim you`ll be looking 14>18 mpg. on a run 20mpg at a push.
Thanks.
Mildly tuned, sequential turbos, 307fwhp....
Kept a note on a spreadsheet for a few months of how I was driving and fuel in quantity to work out how bad it was! Motorway cruise was a nice surprise!!
Round town (start/stop traffic etc) ~12mpg
Motorway cruise (relatively off boost / 5th gear / 60-70mph) 23-26mpg
Driving like i\'ve stolen it <8mpg
HTH
graeme
Quote from: trotter;732888Round town (start/stop traffic etc) ~12mpg
Motorway cruise (relatively off boost / 5th gear / 60-70mph) 23-26mpg
Driving like i\'ve stolen it <8mpg
HTH
graeme
26mpg how the hell did you manage that!! downhill with tail wind. 90psi in tires lol
I used my old one daily and for the odd 110mile journey each week (which I now do 4 days out of 5 :( )
Best i ever saw was around the 19mpg mark trying to stay off boost on a long run (although thats A34 so not really a pick a speed and cruise style drive)
Worst was definately single digits I think
Quote from: skybusr34;73290226mpg how the hell did you manage that!! downhill with tail wind. 90psi in tires lol
haha, she was getting towed at this point!!! :P
Nah, just done another quick calc: Hull -> Penicuik = 260miles
Done it on just over 5/8ths of a tank = ~11gallons
Consumption was 23.93mpg
When I done it at the time I kept a note of miles done per 1/8th of the tank. And for one section (M74 between M6 and A702 if memory serves - relatively smooth, flat and empty) the maths showed something like 25.92mpg or something.
Although to be fair, i\'ve never seen it since!!!
As a quick aside, if I hover over those mpg figures, GoogleBar pops up to tell me the consumption per 100km???
graeme
I averaged about 15/16mpg on mapped twins with airflow mods.
Quote from: Sanchi;732878I\'m from near Heathrow, how about yourself?
Thanks.
I am from near heathrow too.
MPG is all in the map.
I can get from heathrow to santa pod and back on 3/4 tank. This is fairly aggresive driving on the way up to redline in most gears.
My engine is heavily modified, its been mapped on the road on a base sort of map at 0.8 bar. I would say its got 400+ at least.
Quote from: SiH;732926I averaged about 15/16mpg on mapped twins with airflow mods.
Much the same as my car, which was running about 320fwhp. Would see over 20mpg on motorway journeys.
I stopped quoting MPG and now quote in GPM........ Gallons per mile lmao ! :D
i used to try and keep track of this, now i don\'t bother!
i fills it up, i runs it down, i fills it up again. the only thing i ever look at is the amount of petrol that goes in, don\'t even bother with the price anymore tbh. wherever i go i just assume that petrol is going to cost too much!
this is one of those "have to ask, can\'t afford it" type scenarios :)
Quote from: trotter;732888Mildly tuned, sequential turbos, 307fwhp....
Kept a note on a spreadsheet for a few months of how I was driving and fuel in quantity to work out how bad it was! Motorway cruise was a nice surprise!!
Round town (start/stop traffic etc) ~12mpg
Motorway cruise (relatively off boost / 5th gear / 60-70mph) 23-26mpg
Driving like i\'ve stolen it <8mpg
HTH
graeme
a spreadsheet T you need to get out more :rollin
Quote from: Rzla;732929I am from near heathrow too.
MPG is all in the map.
I can get from heathrow to santa pod and back on 3/4 tank. This is fairly aggresive driving on the way up to redline in most gears.
My engine is heavily modified, its been mapped on the road on a base sort of map at 0.8 bar. I would say its got 400+ at least.
Thats good to hear, not as bad as I thought it would be. I\'ve seen two RX7\'s in the heathrow area one black and one red, both seperate occasions but both near shell petrol station on the cowley road. I remember the black RX7 gave me way I was in a grey ish MR2 Turbo spoilerless may have been you?
Quote from: jackaleks;732937this is one of those "have to ask, can\'t afford it" type scenarios :)
Lol. I wouldn\'t say that, more interest than anything of course its costly to run, but I would say my MR2 isnt far off that interms of town driving.:driving
I stopped working it out when I went premix - can\'t brim the tank then add the 2 stroke, so I just add 100cc of oil, then 10l of premix until I work out it\'s vaguely near the top!
Means I can\'t accurately measure using the \'Brim-drive-brim\' method though.
I can make it home to Plymouth on just over 3/4 of a tank so 220miles ish. I dont bother with working out MPG i knew the car liked petrol so i just fill it up when i get to 1\\4 lol. Ive been around Heathrow a few times in mine it might have been me but theres quite a few of us around this way.
Quote from: RXSpeedy;732981I can make it home to Plymouth on just over 3/4 of a tank so 220miles ish. I dont bother with working out MPG i knew the car liked petrol so i just fill it up when i get to 1\\4 lol. Ive been around Heathrow a few times in mine it might have been me but theres quite a few of us around this way.
What colour is your RX7. It\'d be nice to meet up with you guys one day if you ever have a meet and have a look at your 7\'s.
its all about how you map it lads.
driving to work and back i get 20mpg, on the motorway i get 27-28mpg, last time i did a drive down to wales i averaged 27.7mpg, done 28.2mph before going down to surrey.
if your cruising down the motorway at 70mph pulling 15in of vac do you really need to be sticking loads of fuel in? i run around 15.5-16afr in those load points to give me good economy
Quote from: Sanchi;732961Thats good to hear, not as bad as I thought it would be. I\'ve seen two RX7\'s in the heathrow area one black and one red, both seperate occasions but both near shell petrol station on the cowley road. I remember the black RX7 gave me way I was in a grey ish MR2 Turbo spoilerless may have been you?
No none of those are mine lol.
Mine is a blue colour.
With regards to meeting up because you are not far I don\'t mind showing you but weather is a bit rubbish right now and I might be doing some work in Jan on it
Quote from: Rzla;733003No none of those are mine lol.
Mine is a blue colour.
With regards to meeting up because you are not far I don\'t mind showing you but weather is a bit rubbish right now and I might be doing some work in Jan on it
That would be great mate, no need to show its power, weather is poor just interested to have a nosey around and have a look around to be honest and to see how it behaves under normal driving. Whenever your free that\'ll be super.
single tubby few mods 400+ bhp at worst 8mpg .best on motorway off boost 60 mph i get 16 mpg
( followed closly by a shell tanker )
Quote from: trotter;732888Mildly tuned, sequential turbos, 307fwhp....
Kept a note on a spreadsheet for a few months of how I was driving and fuel in quantity to work out how bad it was! Motorway cruise was a nice surprise!!
Round town (start/stop traffic etc) ~12mpg
Motorway cruise (relatively off boost / 5th gear / 60-70mph) 23-26mpg
Driving like i\'ve stolen it <8mpg
HTH
graeme
I agree with this 100% in fact a bit higher round town maybe 12-16mpg, but deffo 23-26mpg on a motorway @ 70mph
dp/de-cat/nurspec/arc smic/pip fettled pfc, 330fwhp
im in japan, slow easy driving 35mpg all day. driving like its stolen 10mpg.
your mr2 is nothing compared to what a rx can do.
I\'ve said it before and probably will do again....life is just to short to care about MPG. Rotaries are really, really shlte on fuel economy, don\'t buy one if you care about stuff like that. I get around 250 miles to a tank (about £60-£70 quid on current prices) and thats on a 400 bhp single. Haven\'t ever given enough fduks to work that out into mpg numbers!
What you will get as a massive improvement over an MR2 is handling, involvement, looks, performance, build quality and exclusivity. Not to mention an engine bay you don\'t have to be a proctologist to work in! Having owned both, I can assure you that there is just no basis for comparison between the two
Oh, probably worth saying that the only tanks I ever worked out my average mpg\'s on included 1 trackday :D, so tbh that\'s not too bad at all for more than 350bhp.
Not bad for a map by someone with \'sh!t mapping skills\' who apparently always maps \'pig rich\' :)
I should not skim read when doing some thing else as i read this:
Quote from: SiH;732964Means I can\'t accurately measure using the \'Brim-drive-brim\' method though.
as Rim-Drive-Rim, got me very confused!
Quote from: SiH;733049Oh, probably worth saying that the only tanks I ever worked out my average mpg\'s on included 1 trackday :D, so tbh that\'s not too bad at all for more than 350bhp.
Not bad for a map by someone with \'sh!t mapping skills\' who apparently always maps \'pig rich\' :)
You referring to this, dude?....
Quote from: turbotoaster;1628554thats not down to the build though to be fair, thats down to pips shlt mapping skills, i was there when they first started it up and also when they were tuning it, if it had been my car i would have not been impressed.
i mean who the f... runs an N/A rotary engine in the 10s on AFR!! and has the afr graph go up and down more than a essex birds pants!
Hence i live 20mins from him and ive never let him touch my maps, i do all my own tuning, funny how he said if i try and run 20psi it will pop within 3 seconds, well ive done some tuning at that boost and its fine, the torque is very impressive for a rotary!
Hmmmm :rolleyes: Someone seems to need a humility lesson methinks. Good ol\' DW, only there for the ugly things in life :mad:
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/drift-car-projects-builds/131767-4-rotor-ae86-build.html
In all seriousness, the words RX7 and fuel efficiency / MPG do not go together! They are simply not fuel efficient and need to be driven and driven hard.... ( most of the time )
I honestly don\'t even bother trying to work out what miles per gallon I do.... just njoy the smiles per mile! ;)
HTH... prob not but honesty is the best policy
ATB Phil
TBH The best I ever got was 32mpg on mine, 60-65mph for an hour just above idle for my engine, I only had 10 quids worth of fuel as I forgot my wallet at home so I had to go slow for once, I was praying it wouldnt run out and stop.
It was leaned right out in that part of the map
Anything with a rotary is very poor on fuel, even the supposedly fuel efficient RX8 struggles to get near 30 mpg unless you drive very slowly, RX8s hate being driven slowly. It causes the second and third stage valves in the intake to stick and restricts performance.
That\'s FDUKin amazing Blitzen! Are you sure you didn\'t mean 22mpg??!! :eek::eek: :D
Quote from: BlitzBoy;733060TBH The best I ever got was 32mpg on mine, 60-65mph for an hour just above idle for my engine, I only had 10 quids worth of fuel as I forgot my wallet at home so I had to go slow for once, I was praying it wouldnt run out and stop.
It was leaned right out in that part of the map
yip 32 mpg.
You get a lot of overlap in a half bridge, hence unburnt fuel gets ingested in the next cycle at low rpm, therefore you dont need to inject as much fuel in the map, plus you are not on boost in a single turbo at those sort of rpm, reason why twins burn a bit more fuel then singles as you are on boost more at low rpms.
Running 16:1 afr in that part of the map, some engines are ok with that some not and will buck as it were.
But I drive a rotary how it should be driven, hard, who gives a feck about mpg in a sports car.
Awesome and exactly :D
I appreciate the comments guys, but just to remind you I\'m not worried about the MPG as much as I wanted to make a comparison that all, but thanks for the information so far its great!
Quote from: dr50376272;733030im in japan, slow easy driving 35mpg all day. driving like its stolen 10mpg.
your mr2 is nothing compared to what a rx can do.
I appreciate that, I just wanted to make a comparison. I merely mentioned it would be close to a 7 around town, I have mentioned the engine is not stock and heavily modified. I do understand they aren\'t the same so I wanted to find out the difference :)
Quote from: Nik da Greek;733036I\'ve said it before and probably will do again....life is just to short to care about MPG. Rotaries are really, really shlte on fuel economy, don\'t buy one if you care about stuff like that. I get around 250 miles to a tank (about £60-£70 quid on current prices) and thats on a 400 bhp single. Haven\'t ever given enough fduks to work that out into mpg numbers!
What you will get as a massive improvement over an MR2 is handling, involvement, looks, performance, build quality and exclusivity. Not to mention an engine bay you don\'t have to be a proctologist to work in! Having owned both, I can assure you that there is just no basis for comparison between the two
Lol. I do agree on the engine part. I built my own engine from scratch fully forged, head, cams etc and it is a fun challenge working back there! The only comparison I was making is the MPG as mine is also quite heavy on the fuel as it has larger 870cc injectors, fuel rail and braided fuel lines etc so just wanted an idea as I am looking to buy an RX7 once I find a buyer. When mapping mine can make 400 bhp it just needs a 3 bar map sensor as it is quite an old school turbo I am using.
When I went to the ring in sept 10 motorway driving at 60-70 mph got me 150 miles from full to half a tank and thats the best I could do off boost. Another time I had a full tank and went from west london to folkestone to catch the ferry was running late and I got 80-90 miles to a full tank.
I do understand its all about how you drive as you can stay off boost and preserve some fuel.
I do believe that the 7 would be a good upgrade from the MR2.
Quote from: Sanchi;733076The only comparison I was making is the MPG as mine is also quite heavy on the fuel as it has larger 870cc injectors,.
wow they are small :rollin Jokin, its only because Im running 4x1680 :Hammer
You will get used to the idea of modified rotarys and large injectors go hand in hand :3gears-lh
Quote from: BlitzBoy;733077wow they are small :rollin Jokin, its only because Im running 4x1680 :Hammer
Fair Play, those are quite big. But its not about the size its how you use them ;) Lol.
As you know its about what works with your application. For me thats double the original size! Lol.
Also one other thing, how is the engine in this type of cold weather, I\'ve heard some stories of the engine having a problem at cod start up in the cold? Can you clarify anything to do with this. i.e mixtures of AFR or something with a lean mixture? Thanks.
Quote from: fil_auto;733059In all seriousness, the words RX7 and fuel efficiency / MPG do not go together! They are simply not fuel efficient and need to be driven and driven hard.... ( most of the time)
ATB Phil
Quote from: Will66;733062Anything with a rotary is very poor on fuel, even the supposedly fuel efficient RX8 struggles to get near 30 mpg unless you drive very slowly, RX8s hate being driven slowly. It causes the second and third stage valves in the intake to stick and restricts performance.
Hey guys thanks for the comments. I know they are not fuel efficient, my aim for this post was to get an idea of real data from actual owners rather than read a generic article, also to compare it to my MR2 Turbo which I am currently writing a for sale ad for as I am looking to upgrade to an RX7 :)
mine is about the 330bhp and on a run I am getting about 21-22mpg sat at about 75 (30 miles of A roads & 75mile motorway going to cardiff).... but open the taps and you can watch the needle drop! LOL
Quote from: Sanchi;733078Also one other thing, how is the engine in this type of cold weather, I\'ve heard some stories of the engine having a problem at cod start up in the cold? Can you clarify anything to do with this. i.e mixtures of AFR or something with a lean mixture? Thanks.
Yeah, mixtures aren\'t too clever atm. When I left work last night it was -3 and the air intake temp never got higher than 8 degrees all the way home :eek: . AFRs were all over the place....not that I was likely to use much boost, it was slippery as fduk and more than a bit lively on all the ice without boosting up :Hammer
I\'ve only got 2x850 and 2x1680 injectors but then mine is a hell of a bit slower than Blitzens lol, means I can get away with a nice economical setup :rollin
Quote from: turbotoaster;733000its all about how you map it lads.
driving to work and back i get 20mpg, on the motorway i get 27-28mpg, last time i did a drive down to wales i averaged 27.7mpg, done 28.2mph before going down to surrey.
if your cruising down the motorway at 70mph pulling 15in of vac do you really need to be sticking loads of fuel in? i run around 15.5-16afr in those load points to give me good economy
What plugs are you running? Do you worry and them getting to hot after a while with these arf,s. It become a problem when you put heavy boost on when they really hot.
im running 9s all around.
Why should i worry about running hot, its deep into vaccum so under no load, my EGTs will be a little higher than when they are getting fuel dumped over them but there is no damage.
Happily sit at 82c water temp all day crusing down the motorway like that.
When you put your foot down it doesnt go from crusing to full boost in 0.01sec so when the accelarator is pressed the fueling richens up.
For reference this is how i set my fuelling.
vac motorway cruising 15.5-16afr(try to aim for 16 as much as possible)
vac crusing at low speed 14.2-14.8 afr
0 boost(ie tip in from vac to boost) 13.2afr
5psi of boost 12.3afr
10psi of boost 11.7afr
17psi of boost 11.0afr
20psi of boost 10.8afr
dont have water injection yet so run a little richer past 17psi for safety.
Great information guys. Thanks.
Just out of interest in the MR2 community I know who i used for mapping. In the RX7 community who is renowned for their mapping and who is used with high recommendations?
Quote from: Sanchi;733187Great information guys. Thanks.
Just out of interest in the MR2 community I know who i used for mapping. In the RX7 community who is renowned for their mapping and who is used with high recommendations?
Jason at Super7 gets my vote... do a search on here and other forums - never a bad word said about the bloke or his work... (he sorted millions of problems with mine and now is a reliable daily) good prices too!
+1 for Super7 (perhaps predictably lol). Jason\'s sorted out more problems with mine over the years than I can actually remember, always with a cup of tea and good natured-humour involved haha. He now does his own mapping too in association with Matt at AFR Tuning, and they\'ve managed to get me a reliable 400 hp daily out of a little old-skool tub like a T04S
Vote for Pip @ WGT from me. Never had any issues with his work. Mine mapped an easy 307bhp with induction kit and exhaust only. Some people may have issues with him for whatever reason, but i\'d rather have a \'pig-sh!t map\' that I knew was safe, over one where the @rse has been kicked out of it to get every last bhp anyday!! And you can\'t break a car by running rich, although you can set fire to the rear bumper though!!! ;)
just my opinions though
graeme
Quote from: Sanchi;733006That would be great mate, no need to show its power, weather is poor just interested to have a nosey around and have a look around to be honest and to see how it behaves under normal driving. Whenever your free that\'ll be super.
No worries, the weather does not look like it will play game until after new year so we will have to arrange a meeting after that.
So you have only seen a black and a red rx around? I think I know the red one you mean. Did it have veilside wheels?
Thanks for the feedback guys much appreciated. I have a potential buyer for my car fingers crosses then I can possibly start looking for an FD or even an FC maybe??
Quote from: Rzla;733359No worries, the weather does not look like it will play game until after new year so we will have to arrange a meeting after that.
So you have only seen a black and a red rx around? I think I know the red one you mean. Did it have veilside wheels?
That would be great. Thanks.
The black FD gave me way from shell petrol station on the cowley road one night when I was turning right out of shell. The red FD I was when I was filling up in shell cant remember the wheels but I remember the FEED Carbon style side skirts, possibly black wheels or dark grey but I cant remember either way it looked very nice.
Quote from: Sanchi;732961Thats good to hear, not as bad as I thought it would be. I\'ve seen two RX7\'s in the heathrow area one black and one red, both seperate occasions but both near shell petrol station on the cowley road. I remember the black RX7 gave me way I was in a grey ish MR2 Turbo spoilerless may have been you?
Red one may have been mine? Used to keep it at the MOD base in west drayton which is pretty much next to heathrow. It had Silver Rota\'s on it at the time
I don\'t even bother worrying about fuel with the FD as its hardly used and its streetported. I did manage 30 mpg out of me fc once
You\'ll love the FD compared to the MR2, power delivery is awesome!!
Quote from: dthebuk;733475Red one may have been mine? Used to keep it at the MOD base in west drayton which is pretty much next to heathrow. It had Silver Rota\'s on it at the time
I don\'t even bother worrying about fuel with the FD as its hardly used and its streetported. I did manage 30 mpg out of me fc once
You\'ll love the FD compared to the MR2, power delivery is awesome!!
The red RX7 I saw wasn\'t too long ago. I remember it had FEED carbon side skirts, it looked very neat, I did like it a lot, Clean. Is that your one? If your in the area would be nice to see the 7, Rzla said he would meet in the new year be good if you also came.
yea is got the feed skirts. I may have had Rota GTR\'s or some dishy gulf and stitch wheels on it.
Stock looking other than some unknown spoiler, similar to the stock one.
Well up for a meet, but only when the weathers nice im afraid!!
Quote from: dthebuk;734500yea is got the feed skirts. I may have had Rota GTR\'s or some dishy gulf and stitch wheels on it.
Stock looking other than some unknown spoiler, similar to the stock one.
Well up for a meet, but only when the weathers nice im afraid!!
Yeah that would be good mate, see if we can get some other 7\'s in the area out as well, be nice to see everyones FD.