Hi again :)
Just wondering how much boost can the stock fuel and ecu handle on the TII? On the rx7 many people saying many things, so would be good to clarify here.
also was having a thought. i was looking at how the FCD is installed on the FC, wouldn\'t simply pull the plug out and leave it will stop the fuel cut? lol might be some stupid thought here tho.
Strangly my sensor reads 0.4 bar when my blitz is saying 0.5 bar :driving that means i wont get fuel cut when im doing actual 0.6 bar (sensor should reads 0.5bar )?
My gf bringing me a greddy profecB from japan :Giggle but when im back to UK in Jan again i wont have time to put the the PFC, injectors, fuel pump and things until later time. so i thought might as well get a little more easy power at the moment :p
At last, any suggestion on removing the rat nest?
cheers :)
Louis
I can tell you what I observed when doing my dyno runs / testing and monitoring with the emanage.
As you know - stock ECU will cut fuel to the rear rotor at 8.6psi boost or there abouts. Ironically - the ECU has mapping for higher pressures in it\'s tables. Also, if you maintain WOT then the boost fuel cut is lifted - and the ECU just dumps loads of fuel in. You would feel this as a loss of power followed by a surge with your foot held down on the loud pedal. It\'s not overly nice - and I suspect it could result in an engine death at some stage.
The ECU uses the AFM to meter the air and work out the fuel requirements, but the MAP sensor is used to adjust this - so if you just unplug the MAP sensor, the ECU will not adjust fuelling correctly. Also the ECU detects if the MAP sensor is present by checking the voltage at startup - if it\'s open circuit or short circuit the car will go into a limp mode to avoid problems - so unplugging will not work ;)
The FCD works by lying about the boost pressure - keeping what the ECU thinks the boost is below the cut point - the result is a progressive leaning as you get into higher boost - not really what you want !
Also you need to think about retarding the timing more at higher boost near the peak torque point - so messing with the ECU signals can leave your timing too advanced as well !
Timing is advanced until about 4000 rpm, then cut back as revs / boost increase. The split between leading and trailing plugs is also larger at high boost/mid-high RPM\'s.
From my findings - the stock fuel pump should be good for about 330bhp - but these pumps are old and the wiring is really poor quality - if you don\'t want to replace the fuel pump - which I would strongly recommend - then at least rewire it - 1300cc.com has a good article on how to do that.
Stock injectors with stock ECU - the stock ECU uses the primary injectors until you hit about 3800 rpm, then switches the secondaries in (staging) and drops primaries to 40% - the secondaries are then increased as boost increases. The problem is the code in the stock ECU only increases the primary injector duty if it thinks the engine is cold. Chipped ECU\'s make use of this extra fuel capability on the primaries - and will allow both sets of injectors to hit close to 100% duty - Effectively a chipped ECU could make about 320 bhp on stock injectors - I made 318 BHP with chipped ECU, standard injectors, walbro pump and an aftermarket hybrid turbo with 12 psi.
The stock intercooler isn\'t much good after 12psi - so that\'s a restriction as well, and the standard turbo becomes very inefficient after 12psi.
Some folk on hear have pushed the standard Turbo close to 1 bar (0.9) with chipped ECU or FCD\'s and will probably see just shy of 300BHP at the fly, but your engine is on the ragged edge.
As for rats nest removal - there is an excellent thread over on RX7club.com - gives a diagram - I think I\'ve posted it on a thread over on here - will see if I can find it when I get a mo...
Thanks Prof for such a detailed write up!!!! i have to save this on my laptop :)
In my case as my MAP sensor is reading lower than normal it should be a bit lean than normal?
I have got LC-1 on TII and idle is at 11-12 and on boost it will go to 10.8 to 11. i see the changing point around 3x00rpm the afr goes to 14 - 15 then goes rich again, i found it strange that my car is running so rich. at first i thought the N374 ecu is chipped, took it out and found nothing extra. and the fuel cut at 180km/h still exist so thats a no. Then i just left it as i got a PFC going in soon :)
if there\'s a leak on the piping should it be reading rich vaccum and boost? or should it be rich on boost and normal on vaccum? As i got a FMIC, all the intercooler pipe join are replaced and clamps are new as well. Going to get some big bundle of vaccum hose from China when im back this christmas :p i can see my vaccum hose is getting old now.
BTW what does WOT means? XD
Louis
WOT - Wide Open Throttle - foot to the floor :driving
If you have a vac leak, it would normally interfere with idle as well - but generally at idle it will suck air in causing a lean, and at boost it leak air out - but it depends where it\'s leaking from - as some ports see before throttle and some after - the before throttle ones should never really see strong vac. The MAP sensor should be after throttle - so basically comes off the plenum vac source.
The sensor itself uses 3 wires - ground, output signal and a 5V reference from the ECU that also feeds other engine sensors (temp). If you use a multimeter and measure the voltages when the engine\'s running, you should find 0v, 5v and a lower than 5v voltage on the output - from memory it\'s around 2-3v on idle. If the 5V signal is low, the pressure reading from the MAP will be correspondingly low too - that might explain the readings you have. Stick the black wire on the chassis, and then with the meter set to 20v range, probe the connectors on the back of the MAP sensor.
Some updates before I forget. Reading through the rewire part on 1300cc.com, it says it reads 9v on idle and im getting 12.3 V on mine... So either someone bypassed my resistor or my wires are too healthy lol
One more thing on my to do list then
Quote from: yiug412;732693Some updates before I forget. Reading through the rewire part on 1300cc.com, it says it reads 9v on idle and im getting 12.3 V on mine... So either someone bypassed my resistor or my wires are too healthy lol
One more thing on my to do list then
Was it warmed up when you tested this? - only the pump will run 12v when first started, and also when started warm for about 30-60 seconds. Also, if someone has swapped the fuel pump for a walbro, then it will read a higher voltage - over 10 volts on mine before rewire.
Quote from: Prof;732702Was it warmed up when you tested this? - only the pump will run 12v when first started, and also when started warm for about 30-60 seconds. Also, if someone has swapped the fuel pump for a walbro, then it will read a higher voltage - over 10 volts on mine before rewire.
Yea it was well warmed up to adjust the TPS, will take the fuel pump out and have a look at it one day. My car got lots of hidden mods from the owner in japan, always surprises me :chat His full name is on my front windscreen, i think i should find him and ask him about the car really :D
Will explain why your Innovate is reading so rich ;)
HOLY THREAD REVIVAL!!!
This really helped me, so I thought I should give it a bump, plus ask some questions... :Thumbs-up
I rewired my Walbro pump too, but did it in a different way... I just took the fuel pump feed wire from the relay under the dash that normally goes to the resistor in front of the airbox area, and connected it to the wire going back to the pump, actually bypassing the resistor/relay circuit. Is this a good move? I noticed the wire feeding the fuel pump relay (the one under the dash) from the fusebox (maybe?) is quite thin, but oh well... Now the Walbro sees 12.5 to 13V steadily on idle - not yet tested on boost.
And another thing.. I also upped the boost lately to 11.6psi (0.8bar).
I use the Walbro, an Access-Blitz chipped ECU, an HKS intake, a 3" single exhaust with an 100cpsi converter and a Blitz SS BOV; everything else is stock. Is this pressure safe?
My wideband shows 10.5-11 under acceleration with this boost, but under steady RPM and steady boost (11.6psi still) it raises to 12-12.5. Well, that\'s what I think, I was break-testing so it may not be accurate...
Dave does the Access-Blitz run the OMP? Where any models available that don\'t? My oil level seems too steady OMG...
Sorry for the looooooong post :o:o:o
The Blitz ecu does run the OMP - so if you aren\'t going into limp mode then it\'s working. Oil usage varies from car to car - but is generally 1L every 1000 miles, give or take 500 (accurate it is not :) ). It does vary a little with driving style - hooning it around will increase oil usage, slow careful will net you more mileage for the oil.
As for is it safe to run 12 afr\'s at +11psi boost - it\'s a hard question to answer - as there are other factors involved.
Things that affect this:
Coolant system - if the rad is working well and taking heat out of the engine properly that will help, if it\'s not doing it\'s job and water temps are high - then knock will happen that much sooner
Cooling - Oil - the other job of the oil is to cool the engine too - often overlooked, but it\'s closer to the action than the water is - fresh oil helps, as does an unblocked oil cooler.
Intercooler - again - this seeing good airflow will help your case - giving it hard acceleration after being stuck in traffic - not good.
Spark plugs / spark circuit - at higher boost, quality spark is important - poor wiring, tired HT leads, old plugs - all can cause problems.
Fuel - running higher octane fuel will help at this pressure - afr of 12 is kind of on the limit I would say for 0.7-0.8 bar of boost - ideally you want it richer all over things being considered.
Thanks for the once more accurate and immediate response!
I\'ll try some pulls today and maybe record a video of the wideband+boost meter+tach for cold-blood reference lol. (oldskool method haha, no datalogger)
:3gears-lh
Thank you!
Put that Walbro back on a relay before you do anything else!!
Quote from: captainbizzaro;764247Put that Walbro back on a relay before you do anything else!!
I have used the OEM relay for the fuel pump circuit that resides under the dash, behind the steering coloumn... Isn\'t that adequate for the current that Walbro requires? :(
The walbro should be ok to handle full 12v whenever the fuel pump is on, but the stock FPR is week and will allow higher than stock fuel pressure at idle, which will wreck your emissions if you have no air pump ;)
Dave.
My car idles very rich as well at 11 without SAFC. with SAFC it\'s still hard to get up to 14.
I have a question:
I have converted the secondary to 880cc and i thot it would be running very rich. surprisingly with stock actuator and no boost controller, it boost all the way up to 0.9 bar with around the 12s. is it something wrong with my engine?
and yes good HT leads and spark plug makes a difference on AFR when boosting :)
Quote from: yiug412;764334My car idles very rich as well at 11 without SAFC. with SAFC it\'s still hard to get up to 14.
I have a question:
I have converted the secondary to 880cc and i thot it would be running very rich. surprisingly with stock actuator and no boost controller, it boost all the way up to 0.9 bar with around the 12s. is it something wrong with my engine?
and yes good HT leads and spark plug makes a difference on AFR when boosting :)
Secondaries are only ever running above 3500rpm and on boost, never any other time, so the primaries are doing the bulk of the work. Without knowing your setup, it\'s my guess the fuel pressure isn\'t there at the top end cancelling out the larger injector benefit - but like I say, it\'s conjecture...
It\'s why I went down the emanage route - as you can log so much stuff before during and after making mods - so you can actually see what\'s happening. And a fuel pressure gauge is a worthwhile investment too - for dyno testing.
AFR\'s on idle - low to mid 13\'s are fine - that\'s about stock anyway. Only ever see the 14\'s on cruise between 1500 and 3000 rpm when the narrow band lambda actually does something ;), It\'s not used for idle (like on other cars) and not used for top end fuel correction either - that\'s all MAF and latterly MAP based with tables.
I\'ve managed to tune my idle AFR\'s to about 14 when warm, but it\'s tempremental to start when warm as a result (made worse by eliminating the PRC solenoid - but hey - it was a learning curve). A little bit of throttle blipping see\'s it running...
Hello all!
I did some pulls today and recorded a crappy video of my gauges...
It seems that up to 0.7bar the AFR stays in the "oh sweet" levels, but after that it climbs quickly to the "oh ....!" levels!
I feel grateful that I didn\'t detonate... Or at least I think I didn\'t! :eek
Here (http://www.datafilehost.com/get.php?file=bc844191) is the video.
Any thought would be very welcome, as I don\'t have a clue of what might be the problem...
I have numerous fears. Is it maybe that my fuel pump is not fed correctly when on boost? Is it possibly that I was shipped the Low Pressure Walbro pump instead if the High one?
Or I\'m thinking if it\'s my ACV that possibly malfunctions and releases port air... Prior to the pulls, when idling my AFR was 16-17 due to the port air. Now, after the pulls it is 12-13, which means no more port air. OMG what happened in there under the UIM...
:flamed
Please shed some light to a n00b\'s boosting nightmare! :Hammer:Hammer:Hammer
:o
Thanks!
Quote from: Prof;764337Secondaries are only ever running above 3500rpm and on boost, never any other time, so the primaries are doing the bulk of the work. Without knowing your setup, it\'s my guess the fuel pressure isn\'t there at the top end cancelling out the larger injector benefit - but like I say, it\'s conjecture...
It\'s why I went down the emanage route - as you can log so much stuff before during and after making mods - so you can actually see what\'s happening. And a fuel pressure gauge is a worthwhile investment too - for dyno testing.
AFR\'s on idle - low to mid 13\'s are fine - that\'s about stock anyway. Only ever see the 14\'s on cruise between 1500 and 3000 rpm when the narrow band lambda actually does something ;), It\'s not used for idle (like on other cars) and not used for top end fuel correction either - that\'s all MAF and latterly MAP based with tables.
I\'ve managed to tune my idle AFR\'s to about 14 when warm, but it\'s tempremental to start when warm as a result (made worse by eliminating the PRC solenoid - but hey - it was a learning curve). A little bit of throttle blipping see\'s it running...
I think it may be due to my stock pressure gauage never read correctly. I have only hit fuel cut once after my mods and i always get up to 0.8 or 0.9 bar WOF :) and it also may be due to my old fuel filter that i have no idea how old it is...
I actually have a PFC but im waiting for Pete to help me out on the datalogit :)
btw where has Pete been these days? havnt heard from him for ages.
Quote from: infernal;764345Hello all!
I did some pulls today and recorded a crappy video of my gauges...
It seems that up to 0.7bar the AFR stays in the "oh sweet" levels, but after that it climbs quickly to the "oh ....!" levels!
I feel grateful that I didn\'t detonate... Or at least I think I didn\'t! :eek
Here (http://www.datafilehost.com/get.php?file=bc844191) is the video.
Any thought would be very welcome, as I don\'t have a clue of what might be the problem...
I have numerous fears. Is it maybe that my fuel pump is not fed correctly when on boost? Is it possibly that I was shipped the Low Pressure Walbro pump instead if the High one?
Or I\'m thinking if it\'s my ACV that possibly malfunctions and releases port air... Prior to the pulls, when idling my AFR was 16-17 due to the port air. Now, after the pulls it is 12-13, which means no more port air. OMG what happened in there under the UIM...
:flamed
Please shed some light to a n00b\'s boosting nightmare! :Hammer:Hammer:Hammer
:o
Thanks!
OK update, I removed the airpump belt and did 1-2 more pulls. AFRs still start to rise above 12:1 and thus I didn\'t push it. :2Confused
PS Sorry yiug412 for hi-jacking your old thread!
Lol it\'s fine. U got some good question as well ae. Btw does ur afr rise up to high 12s? Plug in ur laptop to the wideband controller and logit. And set warning to 13 then do some boost that will give us a better view :)
another question related to boosting, When i step on the floor in third from low rev, i can feel the turbo kicking in around 3500 rpm then at 5000rpm it has a very sudden rise in power that always make my wallet fly all the way back to the car, does that happen to other people\'s TII?
my set up is 3 inch full exhaust, possible S320 turbo or similar and FMIC. no boost controller and it boost up to 0.9 bar on my gauage. AFR reads around 12\'s when boosting.
Cheers
Louis