Hey
Ive decided i want to be different and stick with my twin turbo set up,i would like to upgrade my twins,ive had a search on here and on google for some BNR turbos,theres not alot of info on the go anywhere,im going on a guees but if i brought brand new bnr its just an upgrade of the standard turbos,iam aiming for about 400 bhp and will be quite happy at that,can anybody sen me in teh right firection or possibly point me in the direction
cheers john
Try www.rx7store.net (http://www.rx7store.net)
Someone was selling some, think it was on here....or maybe FDuk
Quote from: John RX7;722884Hey
Ive decided i want to be different and stick with my twin turbo set up,i would like to upgrade my twins,ive had a search on here and on google for some BNR turbos,theres not alot of info on the go anywhere,im going on a guees but if i brought brand new bnr its just an upgrade of the standard turbos,iam aiming for about 400 bhp and will be quite happy at that,can anybody sen me in teh right firection or possibly point me in the direction
cheers john
I suggest you do not stick with twins, I have tested every type www.riceracing.com.au (http://www.riceracing.com.au) (look under VBOX testing page).
The BNR\'s are the worst of the upgrade twin turbo\'s, the turbine wheels are too large and they are laggy and have the narrowest power band of them all.
The best are the knight Sports RF420, but they are very fragile!
Aftermarket T28 BB upgrades are as bad as the BNR\'s for response and power band, but at least they are reliable.
I suggest you go single turbo, look at my site for graphic real world testings as to why ;) power and reliability all in one, with widest power band and least expense long term :cheers
he is right go with single turbo set up for that kind of power , im using a turbonetics on mine.:cheers
Think about how you use the car. If like me you use it everyday for everything then NOTHING will give you the low down pull and response of the stock twins in sequential. I wait (hope) to be proven wrong.
I\'ve been single (in the 500+ club a long time ago) and as always used that car as I have all three of my FD\'s as regular transport. Currently I run twins with the usual mods and a PFC and it is without question the most fun setup I have ever tried in an FD that still retains its Rotary. Back roads are where these cars should be driven and for that it is very entertaining indeed! Straight lines suck - no matter how much power you have gunning it on the straights gets very boring very quickly.
A couple of points to remember:
If you search through threads you will see that many people who go single never had the twins working as well as they could be.
Lots don\'t use the car regularly.
There aren\'t many twisting winding back roads in most of the US.
A small single like a TO4e will get you 400 at most if set up very well but still won\'t have the low down power of the twins for effortless (but brisk) town driving.
If you car is a toy for occasional use then all of the above is still relevant but much much less important. In fact if I could put mine down long enough for it to become an occasional car I would go single myself. The fact that I can\'t put it down is the reason I won\'t.
In my own case I have had perfectly working twins and done them for customers as well, sequentially (~120mph cars in 1/4 mile test).
Any decent single turbo (up to T04Z) with correct set up will provided full boost pressure at ~3600rpm! this V\'s ~3000rpm for the tiny single stage for the twins :WaveBye The biggest difference is there is no steps in the power curve and you also end up with 80bhp+ extra power with all the same variables :yes
The twins are a novelty, nothing more, for when you go to a well set up single turbo 13B-REW you will never ever go back to the oil leaking, stepped power band, limited rpm, hopeless set up they come with from the factory :flamed
ALL of the modified twins on the market are nothing short of hopeless, I am happy to be proved wrong by anyone/someone? Having bought,fitted,tested them all I as a free service publish all the information regarding these used on a stock 13B-REW motor base, anyone can go and look at the average power band figures (90-140 tests) or overall power and speed tests (circuit times, qtr mile times and speeds) what you wont get to see is how crap they are for durability sadly or how a total PIA they are to work on.
IF you want a reall responsive set up buy a Garrett T04Z (1.00A/R divided rear housing), use a HKS fabricated exhaust manifold, SMB 3.5" exhaust, get it tuned properly and you will have the most fun car to drive in the mountians you will ever experience, super responsive, very powrful, and durablity to boot. :Typing 0-60mph in under 4 seconds on any road (driven by virtually anyone) and 200mph top speed if you are brave enough. :Typing
good points rice - i have the rf420s with large streetport all the fueling mods and intercooler etc but they\'re currently being rebuilt due to an internal oil seal failure on their first proper dyno run (bah!) so i can\'t give you a power figure and point taken re. fragile!!
Quote from: ashc;723508good points rice - i have the rf420s with large streetport all the fueling mods and intercooler etc but they\'re currently being rebuilt due to an internal oil seal failure on their first proper dyno run (bah!) so i can\'t give you a power figure and point taken re. fragile!!
I went through 3 sets (customers cars) of RF420\'s all with the same problem!
Power graphs on my site of one in no seq form > (271rwkw on dynodynamics guess machine) = (you blokes would guess the power at ~457bhp on the opimistic figures/multipliers I see your shops using as conversion factors!). You will see on my own proper rwkw ratings that match physics its honest ~250rwkw region @ 19psi inlet boost pressure. This is V\'s 285rwkw @ 17.2psi for a T04Z as a comparison. http://www.riceracing.com.au/rides/SeriesVIII_SpiritR.htm I did squeeze a lap record out of this set up which has still not been equalled or beaten for a twins car) but the turbo\'s failed in one day at the track!
You can compare them to two different cars on T04Z, with other incremental times to match along with the actual recorded power output as tested by me :) > http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm (RF420 third or so from top of list of road car set ups) they need a .... load of boost to get anywhere near a good single turbo, and you will see MANY other modified twins and stock twins way down the order in on road performance and power meansures too.
Go single :burnout
\'\'The biggest difference is there is no steps in the power curve and you also end up with 80bhp+ extra power with all the same variables\'\'
Sounds like you should get yourself a decent mapper then :rollin
Stylus hit the nail on the head, you can\'t beat the twins for everyday driving, singles are all about power....I\'ve had both, been in both, and much prefer twins...so you don\'t get 4-500 bhp...maybe you\'ll keep your licence a bit longer! ;)
Quote from: RICE RACING;723507In my own case I have had perfectly working twins and done them for customers as well, sequentially (~120mph cars in 1/4 mile test).
Any decent single turbo (up to T04Z) with correct set up will provided full boost pressure at ~3600rpm! this V\'s ~3000rpm for the tiny single stage for the twins :WaveBye The biggest difference is there is no steps in the power curve and you also end up with 80bhp+ extra power with all the same variables :yes
The twins are a novelty, nothing more, for when you go to a well set up single turbo 13B-REW you will never ever go back to the oil leaking, stepped power band, limited rpm, hopeless set up they come with from the factory :flamed
ALL of the modified twins on the market are nothing short of hopeless, I am happy to be proved wrong by anyone/someone? Having bought,fitted,tested them all I as a free service publish all the information regarding these used on a stock 13B-REW motor base, anyone can go and look at the average power band figures (90-140 tests) or overall power and speed tests (circuit times, qtr mile times and speeds) what you wont get to see is how crap they are for durability sadly or how a total PIA they are to work on.
IF you want a reall responsive set up buy a Garrett T04Z (1.00A/R divided rear housing), use a HKS fabricated exhaust manifold, SMB 3.5" exhaust, get it tuned properly and you will have the most fun car to drive in the mountians you will ever experience, super responsive, very powrful, and durablity to boot. :Typing 0-60mph in under 4 seconds on any road (driven by virtually anyone) and 200mph top speed if you are brave enough. :Typing
Not sure what you mean on the twins I get positive boost at 1700rpm and .7 to .8 bar by
just over 2k.
alot of good information here,i think topic getting covered,I\'m just going to throw in an idea of efini twin turbos,ive had a look at these a bit more expenisve then BNRs are they more responsive and more reliable,or do they flop and my driving needs are a weekend play think i have a van during the week,mainly street use so less lag the better,i do have country roads,and iam hoping to do a couple of circuits this year, but iam edging towards single turbo,but will aim for 450bhp as my girlfriend occasionally drives lol :(
Quote from: CharlieP;723516\'\'The biggest difference is there is no steps in the power curve and you also end up with 80bhp+ extra power with all the same variables\'\'
Sounds like you should get yourself a decent mapper then :rollin
Stylus hit the nail on the head, you can\'t beat the twins for everyday driving, singles are all about power....I\'ve had both, been in both, and much prefer twins...so you don\'t get 4-500 bhp...maybe you\'ll keep your licence a bit longer! ;)
:2eek I have done more RX7\'s than most others combined and take offense to your childish remarks :2eek
Go set a set of twins to ~20psi and come back to me with a proper data log of where it reaches this boost in 3rd gear on a road not on an artificial dyno thanks. AND show us the POWER not just the token boost level.
ALL sequential twins have a stepped power band and boost plot.
ALL twins fail at high power (stock based) only ones that do not are Garrett GT28bb inserts, these though have a poor power band as I already stated and proved.
I don\'t know of anyone who drives their RX7 (and can drive!) who uses sub 3000rpm except when maybe reverse parking! so the merit of oil leaking underpowered sequentials is really pointless unless your trying to compensate for failing on every other important point :Giggle
Quote from: John RX7;723522alot of good information here,i think topic getting covered,I\'m just going to throw in an idea of efini twin turbos,ive had a look at these a bit more expenisve then BNRs are they more responsive and more reliable,or do they flop and my driving needs are a weekend play think i have a van during the week,mainly street use so less lag the better,i do have country roads,and iam hoping to do a couple of circuits this year, but iam edging towards single turbo,but will aim for 450bhp as my girlfriend occasionally drives lol :(
They are worse.
Fundamental to all the twins is poor design in utilizing the rotary exhaust energy, you really need an open clean designed header and a dual entry turbine of appropriate design to utilize this excess energy in the rotary exhaust.
All of the twins have excessive pumping losses and turbine losses imposed on the poor little engine, this is why they make so much less power (all factors being equal) compared to a single turbo.
You forgo the pointless token sub 3000rpm boost spike for far superior power & transient response from 3500rpm to 8000rpm........ and most importantly its many times more reliable and more fun to drive (opposite to what some people are trying to convince others of here).
I have tuned/modified/ and tested hundreds of RX7\'s ........ the advice comes for free :Thumbs-up
Quote from: stylus350;723518Not sure what you mean on the twins I get positive boost at 1700rpm and .7 to .8 bar by just over 2k.
True, if you want to race from 2500rpm to 3500rpm you probably will win, ANYTHING from 3500rpm you will loose :cheers
I can show you track data from my own car where I just leave it in 3rd gear out of slow corners (3000rpm) and it pulls like a freight train on my T04Z to the point if there is any lateral loading the Race Logic Traction Control is active! I drive a twins set up (my own car, you can see video of it on my site!) and I can tell you from personal experience it is slower out of low speed corners apex to corner exit, and then it get destroyed once you actually can use the power.
On the actual road this problem with the sequential twins is even far more extreme and their "benefit" if even more of a negative to the point where it is totally useless. (much less traction on road tires, and dirtier road surfaces to deal with).
The only thing the twins are good at is pulling away from the lights at 1000rpm and tailing it, the acceleration to 3000rpm is enjoyable, everything else they are garbage at and not worth the troubles.
0-100kmh test they are over a second slower than a single turbo car.
Quote from: CharlieP;723516\'\'The biggest difference is there is no steps in the power curve and you also end up with 80bhp+ extra power with all the same variables\'\'
Sounds like you should get yourself a decent mapper then :rollin
Stylus hit the nail on the head, you can\'t beat the twins for everyday driving, singles are all about power....I\'ve had both, been in both, and much prefer twins...so you don\'t get 4-500 bhp...maybe you\'ll keep your licence a bit longer! ;)
I believe Feed in japan have figured out how to essentially remove the dip and proof is in the dyno graph from one of their ex demo cars here in the uk, I will see if I can upload the graph, but it goes to show that with the right map they can produce a smooth power curve, thats not to say that the twins are better than a single just the fact that the dip is something that can be eliminated.
I currently run my twins in non sequential format due to the fact my rats nest have up the ghost, now I know the manifold for the twins has the flow properties of a athsmatic blowing through a straw and when I get the chance I will be going for a single (money permitting). I am however still shocked when I get in the misses FD who still has the sequential system at how well it pulls off the line and through the rev range. :wiggle
Last post from me on the subject.
Twins
1000rpm to 3000rpm
= Massive rush, smile on face at snappy thrust
3000rpm to 6000rpm
= Moderate power, nothing too earth shattering, car starting to struggle
6000rpm to 8000rpm
= like watching paint dry, pointless near waste of time, and quite painful to experience
Single turbo
1000rpm to 3000rpm
= wtf my car is NA... but its getting crazy near 3k rpm hang on....
3000rpm to 6000rpm
= this thing is a f7cking freight train and its stupidly fast compared to any twins
6000rpm to 8000rpm
= will this acceleration ever stop! this is the way a sports car should be :)
ANY PERFORMANCE MEASURE
Twins
= slower
Single
= Faster
RELIABILITY MEASURE
Twins
= FAIL
Single
= Livable, cheaper, easier to work on.
Bragging rights and convincing your mates what is best.
Read this thread and many others on various forums, but leave the real world results to people like myself who have tested it and proven it :spank
Post all the statistics you want. I know which I prefer right now. I have run 600hp per ton daily drives so racing people is sooo yesterday for me. I am a real person who has owned both in the real world using my car for real amounts of time preferably on bendy roads any time I can in all weather.
Most of the time the weather here is cr@p and damp back roads can be attacked in a sequential with great vigour, pace and control much of which is the direct result of the power delivery, low down grunt and throttle response. THAT is what driving is about. ANY single car you bring to me in those (unfortunately usual) weather conditions on roads like that will have a very hard time keeping up indeed.
The added bonus is in real world traffic gaps that appear can taken advantage of instantly.
Forgot to say - at one stage I owned a twin FD and a single FD at the same time. One made me smile, one made me smile a lot more often. I like smiling :)
Some interesting comments here:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=928210
Quote from: RICE RACING;723525I have tuned/modified/ and tested hundreds of RX7\'s ........ the advice comes for free :Thumbs-up
Does the attitude cost extra, then? :confused: Please stop now, you\'re giving me a headache. There\'s really no need to come in here and simply keep shouting at people until they wander off somewhere else or say "yes, OK, OK you\'re right" just to get the noise to stop :rollin
Well done, you\'ve tuned and set up lots of RX-7s and you clearly have formed very strong feelings on what works for you. Your reputation speaks for itself. However, "he who speaks softly speaks loudest" and you probably should learn to stop when the points been made, not ten pages later. I\'m sure if we wanted to be lectured and talked to as if we were cretins we could spend more time on RX-7 club and get the treatment for free instead of paying a membership subscription on here
Quote from: stylus350;723539The added bonus is in real world traffic gaps that appear can taken advantage of instantly.
My T04Z is instant and far quicker than any twins car in any real world application. It will send it turbine from 5000rpm to 100,000rpm much quicker than any twins set up............. how do I know? I actually measure it :3gears-rh not guess it or post up subjective feelings. By the time your flapper valves and inefficient solenoids switch and turn on the second turbo I am many car lengths ahead and you would have had a head on with a lorry :rollin
Remember "appropriate sized single" fit the right one and you will have most of what the unreliable twins will give and a whole lot more.
Sounds like you never had a decent single set up?
Check my site out for what works (no made up statistics there mate) once you get behind the wheel of a well prepared car you will throw the twins in the bin where they belong :rollin
Happy for you to take out the emotion and show me ANY in gear acceleration figures from your "super responsive twins set up" and I will smash them with my "unresponsive T04Z" :Hammer
From closed throttle to gear change to transient boost response any rpm south of 3000rpm you will loose by a massive margin. And if you respond telling me you over take at 3000rpm then you are delusional :Hammer
My only post on this subject on the subject :p
Single Big turbo Half Bridge Port
1000rpm to 3000rpm
= wtf my car is idling... Fduk me its freakin quick to 3K with a slight press of the loud pedal....
3000rpm to 6000rpm
= OMG the boost has just kicked in, I think my neck is going to snap
6000rpm to 9200rpm
= will this warp drive ever stop! I feel sick this is what a super car should be :D :flamed
Lol. How often do you drive it though Blitzen? :D
Quote from: Nik da Greek;723544Does the attitude cost extra, then? :confused: Please stop now, you\'re giving me a headache. There\'s really no need to come in here and simply keep shouting at people until they wander off somewhere else or say "yes, OK, OK you\'re right" just to get the noise to stop :rollin
Well done, you\'ve tuned and set up lots of RX-7s and you clearly have formed very strong feelings on what works for you. Your reputation speaks for itself. However, "he who speaks softly speaks loudest" and you probably should learn to stop when the points been made, not ten pages later. I\'m sure if we wanted to be lectured and talked to as if we were cretins we could spend more time on RX-7 club and get the treatment for free instead of paying a membership subscription on here
Forums sh&t me off, they mostly have opinions from people with no real testing of any credit to back them up. I spend allot of my own money and time to share my testing and experience with people, I take offense to people saying that my findings are either skewed or statistics to be disregarded and that they based of typed text are to be more believed due to me who has spent countless hours working and sharing information is wrong in what I have decided to post up.
That is my position, the "attitude" is something you read into my posts cause you see it from your side. I see from my side people who have never done any proper tests nor defined in engineering terms what is a very complex subject.
Instead on the internet you get subjective opinion along with too many unknown variables and lets face it shout downs of certain positions based on who is more proud of their own set up and money they have spent along with their justifications to back it up. I don\'t care for any of that and you can read that as you wish, I only care about what works, how and why and if it can be replicated and measured by others.
I probably loved twins more than anyone here many times over, hence I tested and trialed them all myself and over many customers, took me a long time to acknowledge single turbos are far superior and that twins are only good at irrelevant things that are never used by most in sports cars 1000rpm to 3000rpm zone................
Quote from: Nik da Greek;723548Lol. How often do you drive it though Blitzen? :D
My car is not posessed therefore more times then you in last 5 years :cheers hahaha
Quote from: RICE RACING;723549Forums sh&t me off, they mostly have opinions from people with no real testing of any credit to back them up. I spend allot of my own money and time to share my testing and experience with people, I take offense to people saying that my findings are either skewed or statistics to be disregarded and that they based of typed text are to be more believed due to me who has spent countless hours working and sharing information is wrong in what I have decided to post up.
That is my position, the "attitude" is something you read into my posts cause you see it from your side. I see from my side people who have never done any proper tests nor defined in engineering terms what is a very complex subject.
Instead on the internet you get subjective opinion along with too many unknown variables and lets face it shout downs of certain positions based on who is more proud of their own set up and money they have spent along with their justifications to back it up. I don\'t care for any of that and you can read that as you wish, I only care about what works, how and why and if it can be replicated and measured by others.
I probably loved twins more than anyone here many times over, hence I tested and trialed them all myself and over many customers, took me a long time to acknowledge single turbos are far superior and that twins are only good at irrelevant things that are never used by most in sports cars 1000rpm to 3000rpm zone................
All this may well be the case, but if you do this with slightly more humility and sympathy towards other people\'s feelings and opinions maybe you\'d get listened to more. I wouldn\'t presume to judge your breadth of knowledge and experience but you\'re frankly boring me to tears and I haven\'t felt the need to be lectured quite so intensely since I left school. You\'re extremely abrupt and presumptive in your manner and if you think people want to be talked to like that and that you\'re going to succeed in educating them into your awesome rotary gospel by browbeating them into submission then I fear you\'re sorely mistaken. I expect most people stopped reading this thread several posts ago.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;723550My car is not posessed therefore more times then you in last 5 years :cheers hahaha
That\'s a low blow, Mark:rollin
One on right is more responsive and better 3000rpm onwards :Giggle :yes :WaveBye Tested both back to back on same day for what its worth, and got a third party to drive both cars and he admitted the T04Z was a "response machine" much more mid range power and top end was a no comparison *advantage T04Z*
RF420 set to 20 psi
T04Z set to 17psi
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3361/img0923twins.jpg)
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2567/img0275twins.jpg)
In my tests:
Both std 13B-REW\'s
Both Blitz SBC I color boost control
Both same SMB exhaust systems
Both HKS DLI ign
Both tuned the same
Both same test location
I drove the twins car on track and had to rape it to get a lap time of what I would get out of a single turbo car (narrow power band) poor low end power, very poor top end power. And the turbo\'s broke :Thumbsup!
If people want the "reverse park 15psi boost" then stay twins, if you want a real car go single, it will be faster, much more fun, quicker in every situation in my experience and cost you much less :Typing
Not really childish remarks, more of a light-hearted nudge....
My car was mapped on the road, and only went on the Dyno out of interest, which is when I saw the smooth power curve, I\'ve lost it now, like I lose most things.
I\'m just saying, a great tuner can make the world of difference to a car, which few people realise and actually get to experience
I don\'t think I know an awful lot about rotaries and cars (like many forum people)...but willing to learn and have an open mind but unfortunately I agree with Nik....you may have much experience and knowledge, but the way you put it across makes me less willing to listen.
Mr Rice Racing I have respect for your achievements but I don\'t think you are very good at listening.
I have stated that my opinions are for a genuinely regularly used car and it\'s this fact that is absolutely key to what I am saying.
I do 15 - 20k miles a year in all weather. 1 - 4000 rpm is KING. In fact I\'ve never been out in a single car that genuinley pushes you back in the seat before 4k. Even if you have it makes no difference at all because a 1000rpm power band is useless.
Twice a day on the school run fighting for the last space near the kids schools (two boys different schools 6miles appart). Picking them both up on the day of their swimming lessons and having ten minutes to get them to the baths etc....
It\'s in these situations (most of road driving let\'s face it) that my 1 - 4k prm pull makes my life great. I can make swift progress using that power band and it\'s a pleasure. I don\'t want to be thrashing the car because you look like a TW4T ragging your car at these times of day. I can make haste without making a load of noise and unwanted attention coming across like some racing driver wannabe. I am still enjoying myself in my sports car. It\'s a sports car with bottom end grunt but it\'s still a sports car. My kids love the feel of the pull too so that\'s a massive bonus for me.
But here\'s the thing - when the traffic clears a bit to reveal an interesting bit of road, when I spy an empty unguarded trading estate or any time and every time there is a chance to stretch the engine and have some more fun I never think "I wish I was in the FD" because I\'m always in the FD.
Quote from: RICE RACING;723546My T04Z is instant
Remember "appropriate sized single" fit the right one and you will have most of what the unreliable twins will give and a whole lot more.
Find me a single that fits my needs and I WILL make it happen. Please. I would love to simplify the complicated twins set up.
Quote from: RICE RACING;723546Sounds like you never had a decent single set up?
Ground up build by JayDee and Kerim. Faultles.
I\'m not anti single in fact far from it! There are times I wish my car was as quick top end as my single was but I accept that this suites me much better most of the time.
Please excuse my posts I re read them and they do read badly :HammerIf you like your seq twins then so be it, I kind of miss mine, but for my purpose and style of driving I prefer the ones I already mentioned too many times.
I will try to find the log of the BNR\'s for peoples interest and post it.
All good banter to me :) good things often come as a result of a good argument :D
Fair play to you Mr R. Racer, top fella for saying that. Like I said, no-one was challenging your experience and testing, just the way it came across.
Now we\'re all being nice to each other I have to say I agree with what Stylus says about the immediate driveability from twins in urban situations. I miss the urge from a whisper of throttle at stupidly low revs that twins give you, and it\'s simply not possible to always drive around at 3000+ rpm especially in traffic so you\'re never getting response from a single. Besides, 3000 rpm in second on my car now probably busts any urban speed limit wide open! In my opinion in every other respect single trumps twins, and I was a staunch and vociferous supporter of twins as long as I possibly could be.
I certainly don\'t miss the frailty and complexity of them, though. All the time I\'ve had twin turbo FDs the percentage of time they were working glitch free is probably like 33%. The other two thirds of the time they\'ve either been misbehaving, outright failing or I\'ve been waiting for the next glitch to appear. An eighteen year old car with a hundred miles of cooked cracked vacc hose and twenty roasted vibrated broken solenoids does not make a recipie for reliabilty sadly
None of which adresses the real advantage of a single, the mad anarchic headrush and inexorabilty of it hoovering up the horizon on boost. As far as I\'m concerned, nothing comes close to that and I can\'t imagine ever wanting to go back to twins, even uprated ones. Of course, this is purely my own personal preference, I wouldn\'t try to state anything I say is definitive or objectively proven , just the way it makes me feel.....and that\'s the only thing that\'s really relevant to a road car after all. Lap times and absloutes matter little when you\'re pottering along behind myopic Mrs Miggins on her way to take Tricky-Woo to the vets at 15mph, what you want is a car that drives off no revs without breaking your clutch leg and juddering about or bogging down like a spaz all the time
I\'m another pro-twins person even if that is all I\'ve driven. I very rarely get to push over 3k around here so a single is pointless. If I did push it that hard I\'d have lost my license a long time ago ;)
It entirely depends on how and where you use your car the most. For me having a single is entirely pointless.
Feed Chick\'s car is a Feed mapped twin with no bump in the power band.
I love a well tweaked single as a track weapon
I love a twin (new vac hoses and downpipe) as a fast daily squirt
HATE Petrol pumps ;)
Quote from: RICE RACING;723553In my tests:
Both std 13B-REW\'s
Both Blitz SBC I color boost control
Both same SMB exhaust systems
Both HKS DLI ign
Both tuned the same
Both same test location
I drove the twins car on track and had to rape it to get a lap time of what I would get out of a single turbo car (narrow power band) poor low end power, very poor top end power. And the turbo\'s broke :Thumbsup!
If people want the "reverse park 15psi boost" then stay twins, if you want a real car go single, it will be faster, much more fun, quicker in every situation in my experience and cost you much less :Typing
Did you upgrade your solenoids? It doesn\'t seem like you did, so you cannot compare a single setup to the BNR\'s/RF420\'s, let alone a t04z! :chat
However I would stay twins if you have lots of urban/odd B road blast, but single if you live in the country/big city.
I notice that Revolution now sell uprated twins:
http://revo-tune.jp/catalogue/detail.php?id=211
I don\'t know anything about them, or how they compare to BNRs/RF420s - does anyone else have any details on them? Are they a better alternative, or much the same?
Quote from: dudsey;735088Did you upgrade your solenoids? It doesn\'t seem like you did, so you cannot compare a single setup to the BNR\'s/RF420\'s, let alone a t04z! :chat
However I would stay twins if you have lots of urban/odd B road blast, but single if you live in the country/big city.
You wanted me to upgrade the Blitz dual solenoids which control the boost :rollin ???
The turbo\'s were fitted with upgraded base springs & had the same boost controller running them as well ;)
The twins were not great, never have been in any I have trialed for good reasons I think I stated already, either way it\'s up to the individuals I suppose, I know I would never ever entertain using any type of twins nor recommending them to any customer no matter how much they love them or the idea of it. Any such romance is dispatched once I take them for a drive in my own personal car :driving you just cant compare a good turbo set up to the plethora of twins around as stated.
1.3 kg/cm = 425.4hp トルク 46.5k LOL at their power claims
:3gears-lh
Quality thread :Thumbsup! With actual facts and figures and everything :mmmm
Also don\'t know if its worth mentioning but T04z is pretty old turbo tech...
interesting read.
i have had 4 fd3s in various hp and turbos. and im currently hunting down my next rex.. what will it be? a 500hp single? a 400hp twin?
nope..... a 330hp 99 spec twin... why.. the 99 spec cars had a much better sequencial system, better turbos. and nothing imo beats the twin rex.
yes a 500hp rex will kick its ar5e from 4500rpm. but i want a comfortable sports car that i can drive through town traffic in without lookin a tool reving the arse off the car..
prime example is the honda vtec boys. when you hear one of them blatting up the high street. most people thing bell end. but the poor guy his just tryin to get to the power band. same as the big singles.
im rambling so i`ll sit in the corner now :-)
Quote from: skybusr34;735795interesting read.
i have had 4 fd3s in various hp and turbos. and im currently hunting down my next rex.. what will it be? a 500hp single? a 400hp twin?
nope..... a 330hp 99 spec twin... why.. the 99 spec cars had a much better sequencial system, better turbos. and nothing imo beats the twin rex.
yes a 500hp rex will kick its ar5e from 4500rpm. but i want a comfortable sports car that i can drive through town traffic in without lookin a tool reving the arse off the car..
prime example is the honda vtec boys. when you hear one of them blatting up the high street. most people thing bell end. but the poor guy his just tryin to get to the power band. same as the big singles.
im rambling so i`ll sit in the corner now :-)
I think I will need to post up actual power curves :Santa
The single turbo car actually has a far wider power band, it only starts marginally later *makes no real difference honestly* but makes more torque and power from 4000rpm to 8500rpm. Ironically the twins are the narrowest power range of any turbos I have used and are the least drivable on track and even on spirited drives in the mountains :2Confused They have a sweet spot at 6500rpm (still 10% less on all same variables than a single turbo) and everything below this and above is greatly less than a single turbo 20% less power.
If you talk about transient response (on off throttle and between gear changes) the single turbo destroys the twins (sequential or not) it is a massive difference! as the twins CANNOT harness the rotary engines pulsing which is divided in a single turbo instillation and mixed in any twins set up, The level of choking on the engine with twins is far higher so you always end up with more heat, higher stress, lower power, worse response, poor turbo reliability at high power.
These are all reasons why I and most others moved on from the OEM twins based set ups, the amount of mid range power, response and reliability from a single turbo cant be beat.
:3gears-rh
You will see every in gear power band test here > http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm
The performance of a single v\'s any twins is on another planet, its easily available and much more drivable than twins set ups, while you are standing on the gas in your twins trying to convince yourself of how superior your "low down power is" the single turbo car have beaten you by a massive margin! and this is just from standing on the gas in the same gear at low rpm ;)
If you can afford it go single turbo, its a much much better choice.
been on your site and must say i`ve struggled to go anywhere bar the top left of the screen in the link you just posted..