Hey people (yeah i know i ask lots of questions...)
took the car out tonight and found that the diff is weak... wont lock at all so i guess its pretty worn out...
So what are my options? my FD diff was usable but still needed to be tighter...
So whats my best options, ive never messed about with diff internals just swapped whole units in my previous cars...
So my choices are...
Kaaz 1.5/2.0 diff - Pricey and noisey
Atomic rex i believe do a LSD - Pricey
Import Cusco 1.0way off ebay - less pricey but have to wait and may not be tight enough for me
Ive heard that FD internals swap over - i dont know whats needed + want something tighter
Shim current diff - no idea how to do it or if its worth the effort
Weld diff - cant weld + all the other silly things..
I used to Drift a fully spec\'d 200sx running a welder. I liked it but it makes you look abit silly with 3 point turns and im not looking for something that extreme at the moment just the occasional day :) Ideally i dont want to spend more than £300 but used Kaaz are as rare as rocking horse sh*t
So what should i do people! does anyone have anything for sale?
Thanks again people!
Alex
if you have a standard diff and its an FC one then you have a very rare FC!!
the standard diff is open if you have a uk car. Even most jap ones are open.
I still have yet to hear of anyone actually swapping diff internals over, though many have said its possible. I think its the FD diff that can be swapped though i wouldn\'t guarantee this. The FD diff is nice but drift wise I don\'t think it locks enough. It\'d deff get you through the odd drift day.
really up to you, I vote weld it. Harsh suspension is much worse than a welder imo
that makes sense... i thought a diff couldnt get this worn...
ok so that knocks shimming off the list... can you shim FD diffs? ofcourse ill only shim it if it fits lol
I did llandow, Castle combe and night stuff in the FD it was defo usable but nothing to a welder, which will prob be my route...
I\'m not sure about shimming. They are a torsen type diff, im not sure if this is a type of clutch type LSD or not. If it is there\'s no reason why not. Saying that, if you could just shim them I doubt as many people would by proper lockers
TBH mate, if you\'re drifting on a budget its welder all the way. I\'m sure you already know this though
whats it like, to drive a rx7 with a welded diff? ive had welded diffs before, but each car is different.
i still have the DTSS bushes, so would this help abit with the scrubbing problem?
My daily FC has no power steering, ..... ass stiff coilovers, dtss elimenators, solid diff mounts & a welded diff.... shes a right slag to drive (livable if you just man up abit) but I do love her for it. The second it rains or the roads are wet though its the most fun in the world! Got say thou, i was running the welder without solid diff mounts & no snubber & it was ok but clunky but now i have both I get 0% wheel hop & no clunks :)
Quote from: dthebuk;721932if you have a standard diff and its an FC one then you have a very rare FC!!
the standard diff is open if you have a uk car. Even most jap ones are open.
I still have yet to hear of anyone actually swapping diff internals over, though many have said its possible. I think its the FD diff that can be swapped though i wouldn\'t guarantee this. The FD diff is nice but drift wise I don\'t think it locks enough. It\'d deff get you through the odd drift day.
really up to you, I vote weld it. Harsh suspension is much worse than a welder imo
I\'ve heard that FD, RX8 and MX-5 torsens will all fit, but some modding is required - it\'s on my todo list ;)
I do know that that MX5 torsen is a straight swap but only into the n/a diff housing.
Quote from: James H;722318I do know that that MX5 torsen is a straight swap but only into the n/a diff housing.
James, do you know if the n/a diff housing is a direct swap for the TII one - I wonder about drive half shafts and the prop shaft length - although I\'d suspect that was the same ?
i think the turbo2 diff housing is different to N/a models..
and i think ill pass on welding it if i can... i believe its a VLSD.. if thats the case, ill shim it. it locks up, so i can skid dry round abouts,, but then when it gets hot, it opens like a open diff.. in the wet, im skidding roundabouts constantly.. so pretty sure its a VLSD :)
QuoteJames, do you know if the n/a diff housing is a direct swap for the TII one - I wonder about drive half shafts and the prop shaft length - although I\'d suspect that was the same ?
No sadly the TII housing & drive shaft are different, pretty sure the TII half shafts are the same thou. But you could always get hold of a n/a housing & just have your drive shaft shortened although saying that to have your drive shaft shortened aint cheap!
i think ill just man up and run another welder...
Now the question is where can i get another FC diff as i cant leave my car on the ramp at my mate\'s work over night...
is anyone willing to let me swap diffs with them as i dont have a need for a spare...
The FC diffs are definitely not viscous they\'re open as can be! If anything the DTSS bushes make it worse. I found having rear steer and a welder was an awesome combination for putting power down, though when i came to drift the thing i failed miserably so in they went.
James H do the solid diff mounts really make a difference? I was running a welder and silly suspensions and dtss eliminators and i just couldn\'t take it anymore! Infact it almost made the car impossible to sell!!
Creech give rotechniks a call. They definitely have some rx8, rx7 and mx5 diffs knocking about (or at least they did a few months ago). They might have my broken welded one there if you wanna try and repair it. Don\'t bother with rx motors. They wanted £250 for a standard diff..... rediculous
I thought the TII was a VLSD. I know mine locks up OK so unless one of the previous owners did some sort of swap then mine must be special!
QuoteJames H do the solid diff mounts really make a difference? I was running a welder and silly suspensions and dtss eliminators and i just couldn\'t take it anymore! Infact it almost made the car impossible to sell!!
Solid diff mounts & a snubber def made a difference, it just made parking & slow turning alot more pleasent! The back end feels so solid & perdictable :)
Can someone show/tell me what the "DTSS" is from the sounds of it its just bushes? Its nothing like the Nissan\'s hicas system is it (i hope)?
Quote from: cr33ch;722517Can someone show/tell me what the "DTSS" is from the sounds of it its just bushes? Its nothing like the Nissan\'s hicas system is it (i hope)?
No - it\'s far simpler - just bushes, with a bevelled edge that are designed to lock up at a certain load. It effectively gives you a bit of passive toe steer so you can carry a bit more speed into a corner.
The Jury seems to be out on whether it\'s good or not - personally - I like it now I\'ve got used to it.
I think there ok when in good condition and stiff. But when they\'re kanckered they\'re ridiculous. When you turn in at high speed you find yourself turning in more than you realised and then have to make adjustments. I found mine to be similar to a leaking shock on the front of the car.
done a little research and from the sounds of it for drifting id better knock it out. where can i get the replacement bushes?
Give mazdarotaryparts.com a call. They\'re a UK dealer for racing beat who make the bushes
i prefered mine with them in, ive took them out now, makes a whole world of difference..
id say wanna swap with me :) but your quite a distance from me
swap what, diffs? ..yeah ill do that ha
Yeah, S4/[N/A] diffs are different than S5.
S4 stock diffs can be open or clutch type. S5 stock diffs can be open or viscous.
S5 diffs have different housings, different half shafts and propeller shafts than S4 models.
An FC can fit both S4 or S5 diffs, provided that you change the rest of the gear that differs.
Also S5 viscous diffs have different half shafts than S5 open diffs.
If you have the S5 open diff, you can swap the FD Torsen right in.
Hope this helps a bit...
Marios
:wave
Ok, I know nowt about diffs so take it easy
How can I tell what diff i have, mine a 1990 turbo II with what I assume is a standard diff?
What do you guys mean by it having \'good lock\'?
Im getting mine out on track, but need to make sure its gonna go sideways and Im not wasting my time
Go to a non-slippery parking lot with no cops around. Stand in the middle, steer all the way to one side, rev up and dump the clutch with first in gearbox. If the car pivots around one of the front wheels or near it, then you have a limited slip diff. If you start making circles and burn the inside wheel, you have an open diff, or a clutch pack diff with worn disks, or a malfunctioning viscous probably with wrong gear oil.
Viscous is not quite ideal for donuts though, but still... :)
Delayed addition:
A "good lock" refers mainly to torsen type diffs and it actually means how many times the torque of the wheel that tends to spin will be transferred to the wheel that grips better. How much is defined by the TBR fraction (Torque Bias Ratio). For instance, a Torsen diff that has a 2.5:1 TBR means that 2.5 times the torque of the spinning wheel is transferred to the wheel that grips. That\'s why torsen acts as an open diff should a wheel lift off the ground [as 2.5 times 0 equals 0] lol. The higher the TBR, the "better" the lock.
A clutch pack type diff can be 1way [locks 100% during acceleration], 1.5way [locks 100% during acceleration and 50% during braking] and 2way [locks 100% during both acceleration and braking]. Clutch type LSDs basically act as on/off half-shaft couplers.
Quote from: infernal;723678A clutch pack type diff can be 1way [locks 100% during acceleration], 1.5way [locks 100% during acceleration and 50% during braking] and 2way [locks 100% during both acceleration and braking]. Clutch type LSDs basically act as on/off half-shaft couplers.
I don\'t believe this is correct
I\'m under the impression that good aftermarket/race/drift diffs (kazz etc) will lock to about 80% (hence limited slip diff). i.e torque is split between the two wheels so the outside wheel has 80% of the torque that the inside wheel receives. A 1.5 way will lock up the full 80% on acceleration but only half of this on deceleration (say 40%) and a 2 way will lock up either way on acceleration or deceleration.
VLSD\'s in nissans lock up around 20-30% i think. the torsens in the fd\'s will lock up a similar amount, maybe a bit more, additionally they wont suffer as badly from heat.
Tbh best way to tell if its open is to drift it. If the car keeps straightening up but doesn\'t bog down, chances are you have an open diff.
edit: also worth mentioning that LSD\'s are are loaded via the prop shaft and when the shaft produces a significant torque they lock up, you can add pre load so they lock up more easily. This means dropping the clutch will return you\'re diff to an open state. TBH this is what scares me most about using 2way\'s on the road instead of welders. They could lock up mid turn and catch you offguard. Where as a welder is always locked!
Well, they could possibly let the half-shafts slip a little, though especially when new, they should lock up pretty good. Don\'t know if there are versions that let slipping occour on purpose. I\'m not much into clutch type diffs. Sorry about that... :(
Sure thing is that clutch type LSDs don\'t act via torque multiplications, so lifting a wheel is not a problem. Therefore, the torque applied to one wheel is irrelevant to the others grip.
Torsens don\'t lock up, cause they constantly "check" the torque bias and distribute appropriately...
I don\'t understand what you mean. The half shafts are directly geared to the the wheel and the diff.
Its simple. They don\'t lock up 100%. Diffs for road going cars such as kazz etc will be running around 80% max. You could lock the diff like they do in big trucks etc but for a road/race/drift car, this is not best in terms of performance so 80% is considered an aggressive diff.
neil your diff is most likely open. There\'s a chance it could be a fairly weak LSD such as the FD diff or a VSLD. If you\'ve got an FD diff, the car will be okish for drifting. But the VSLD will get warm and begin to slip more and more.
TBH i\'d have a look at it. Then weld it unless its the fd diff
I just mean relative motion of one half-shaft as compared to the other\'s.
Wheels velocity = it\'s half shaft\'s velocity.
Anyways thanks for the info, I\'ll keep that in mind concerning clutch diffs.
The FD diff isn\'t that weak. I\'ve seen it live in drifting action and it\'s more than OK! :) It\'s also a cheap bolt-on option that is streetable and track able and also maintenance-free! :D
whent for a spin today and it went very sideways, from stand still and going around corners it steped out niceley so it should have a lsd also its a 1991 jdm and Ive read some ware they have the early fd torrson diff in them?
AFAIK factory never fitted a torsen in FCs... Maybe the previous owner did! :Giggle
think you may be right found this on fc3 pro
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/MODS/DT/lsd.htm
QuoteTBH this is what scares me most about using 2way\'s on the road instead of welders. They could lock up mid turn and catch you offguard. Where as a welder is always locked!
Lol, I had an r33 skyline with a 2 way which locked up on me doing 55mph when changing gear and lanes on a dual carriageway, missed the car next to me by 6" so it caught me very off guard! lol
Quoteneil your diff is most likely open. There\'s a chance it could be a fairly weak LSD such as the FD diff or a VSLD. If you\'ve got an FD diff, the car will be okish for drifting. But the VSLD will get warm and begin to slip more and more.
TBH i\'d have a look at it. Then weld it unless its the fd diff
Ok cheers mate, thats the way I was thinking of going
i fitted a FD Torsen diff in my S5 TII after destroying the stock open diff..
fits right in, no modification needed
im currently welding mine... only downside i see to this debate, is that... A Lush RX7 ... is Exactly that, untill they hear your tyres scrubbing, thinking its broke... or people generally thinking, "what Dicck welded the diff on a nice car like that" .. Lol ..
other than that, Welder FTW!!
People like that are just wrong
FC\'s are made to be driven hard. Why waste a perfectly good chasis, engine and a shed loads of fuel to get from A to B when it could be being thrashed round a track!
+100000
The FC has the shape of the perfect car. And guess what... It\'s also fitted with the perfect motor.
XD