I hear these need to be modded but cant find any info about - anyone done it or got any pics to describe what needs to be done?
Thanx.
Am pretty sure its to do with the rail.. I think the injector is 14mm and the FC rail is 11mm
But one of the FC boys should be able to confirm - i just made up some rails for mine on my other car..
Where abouts did you get your injectors as i am in need of new ones too :)
as above, just need to mill out a bit in the rail to fit the injectors.
1680\'s can be had form clive at mrp :)
So that is, rail off, 14mm drill and job done?
Cool, will give that a go :)
I think there are 2 types of 1680\'s white ones and grey ones, and one lot fit without mods I believe.
the ones I fitted i needed to shave about 1mm of the injector body itself,its only plastic and files down easily enough,it does not affect the sealing properties. I did it this way so i can always revert back to standard injectors for whatever reason.
The 1680 ones are low impedence injectors and will need the apexi ECU and datalogit to set them up correctly. There has been many a discussion on whether you need the aftermarket injector driver for them but it has been worked out mathematically that there is no need and you should not burn out the injector driver within the ECU.
The clips are different as well but they should come with them and you simply need to splice them into your loom.
why 1680s? I\'d fit 1000s all round as they are made to fit the FC fuel rail and you won\'t have the massive step up to the bigger injectors to worry about in the fuel mapping. Unless of course you need the extra fueling 4x1000 is 4000 (4l!) or you have 2x 550 + 2x1680 = 4460 there isn\'t much in it...
I think some people prefer 1680\'s as they are made as such, whereas some (not all) 1000cc injectors are bore out\'s.
Modern ECU\'s can control the pulse widths much more accurately, so much better fuel control with larger injectors is possible. The old 8 bit ECU\'s just didn\'t have the resolution.
Quote from: sadgoth;720277why 1680s? I\'d fit 1000s all round as they are made to fit the FC fuel rail and you won\'t have the massive step up to the bigger injectors to worry about in the fuel mapping. Unless of course you need the extra fueling 4x1000 is 4000 (4l!) or you have 2x 550 + 2x1680 = 4460 there isn\'t much in it...
well.. with the 1000 primairies its a b*tch to get a lean idle and cruise!
and if you have a decent tuner, you wont have any transition hickups ;)
i am running 550 and 1600cc
Where are you guys getting your 1000\'s and 1600\'s from? I need some soon :)
Quote from: Furb;723846well.. with the 1000 primairies its a b*tch to get a lean idle and cruise!
and if you have a decent tuner, you wont have any transition hickups ;)
i am running 550 and 1600cc
The Apexi PFC is totally inept at running anything larger than a 850cc injector as a primary. And even that size can hardly be tuned down to give an acceptable idle.
The problem is with (not the tuner) but the physical programming of the PFC, it cant be tuned below a certain millisecond opening value, you can put in lower numbers but it wont reduce the opening time of the fuel injector (if you measure it with a scope or even look at the ms value on a datlogit for example).
Best thing is to throw the ECU in the bin! (though sadly not an option if you want to run twins sequentially).
The best injector fuel set up I recommend and use on all twin turbo cars is 4 x 850cc stock injectors with uprated fuel pressure of 60psi using a Keene Bell bostapump, this will cover ANY power level you can make on upgraded twin turbos and it will be tunable as well within the limits of the Apexi PFC platform.
If you are going non sequential or single turbo buy a Link G4 plug in and be done with the crap PFC. On my car I run 4 x 1000cc ID1000 (latest generation Bosch fuel injectors) and it idles like a dream (13:1 AFR) and 850rpm and with ~450bhp engine power & 8000rpm it only on 67% duty cycle using 11.4:1 AFR.
Do not use any injectors that require "resistors" this is a garbage way to do things, same for any type of peak and hold drivers etc!, just buy proper high impedance injectors and do the job properly.
Quote from: pdtaylor18;720270the ones I fitted i needed to shave about 1mm of the injector body itself,its only plastic and files down easily enough,it does not affect the sealing properties. I did it this way so i can always revert back to standard injectors for whatever reason.
The 1680 ones are low impedence injectors and will need the apexi ECU and datalogit to set them up correctly. There has been many a discussion on whether you need the aftermarket injector driver for them but it has been worked out mathematically that there is no need and you should not burn out the injector driver within the ECU.
The clips are different as well but they should come with them and you simply need to splice them into your loom.
I know I\'ve got one of those vulgar FDs so not strictly 100% relevant to the OP, but with my 1680s in a Super 7 rail the guys fitted little ballast resistors just to make doubly sure the loads would remain correct and not damage the drivers in the ECU over time. So cheap and easy to fit it seems mad not to.
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/My%20new%20RX-7%20Ver%203%20point%201/DSCF9156.jpg)
Not the best pic in the world, but it\'s the little gold thing just cable-tied to the rail there.
@ RICE, the OP was asking about FCs which AFAIK never had any sort of sequential system
im using 1000 cc primaries with a microtec on my series 5 turbo II engine and its ok although the microtec doesnt seem to be the most precis of ecu\'s. I am running the 550\'s in the secondaries to allow the step up/change over to be much higher up the rev range.
on a side note, i ran a pfc on my turbo 2 with 1680\'s in the secondaries at 460 fly for 2 years with no problems at all. I just milled out the stock rail to fit the bosch items, no resisters used.
:o oops me thought FC = PFC :o
FC type engine, I ran one in my First Gen RX7.
http://www.riceracing.com.au/resources/Zoom-27.pdf
(http://www.riceracing.com.au/donsick.....jpg) http://www.riceracing.com.au/13B-REW-engines.htm < engine dyno detail on this page (cant direct link picture)
(http://www.riceracing.com.au/donsick.....jpg)I ran 4 x 880cc "12A Turbo" fuel injectors as they were bolt in the fuel rails :) ran that to 472rwhp (dynapack hub dyno) around 520bhp or so *probably more* as I am conservative with guessing engine power.
No resistors needed as high impedance and again ran, drove, and was like a std engine.
it is pfc, i converted the loom on my series 5 to run an fd apexi PFC. best combo have had and most reliable :( wish the microtech is as reliable !
you can of course get the dejethro apexi to run a series 5 car without modding the loom but they are rare and expensive.
very nice first gen, amazed you managed to get a to4b up to that power although full boost at 7000 rpm is a little laggy, what did you mange the 1/4 mile in?
Quote from: antnicuk;723905it is pfc, i converted the loom on my series 5 to run an fd apexi PFC. best combo have had and most reliable :( wish the microtech is as reliable !
you can of course get the dejethro apexi to run a series 5 car without modding the loom but they are rare and expensive.
PFC is the Japanese Microwreck, only they are a fair margin better :Thumbs-up
I have never ever used a Microwreck on any cars of mine nor recommend them to any customers, pretty rubbish box of bits in a tin can really, workshops love them cause they can sting customers for a tune that takes 5 minutes. :D That and there is like 5 wires to hook up so its easy for the unqualified to instal and there are no set up options for them to screw up either :D
I despise them with a passion :Tongue1
Quote from: antnicuk;723906very nice first gen, amazed you managed to get a to4b up to that power although full boost at 7000 rpm is a little laggy, what did you mange the 1/4 mile in?
Magazine journo mis quotes lol, was meant to be max power near 7000rpm (you can see the dynapack dyno sheet on the link I gave under it) 351rwkw or so on 18.3psi......... on road I used to run ~22psi boost it was stupid :3gears-rh
I track raced it, never 1/4 mile as could never launch it with small section rear tires. Had a metric ....e load of power though, so much I twisted the input shaft in tow spots and could not get the gearbox off (twin plate clutch!) and stress fratures around the centre hub rivets of the clutch disks. She had a fiar bit of power 13 odd years ago now (gee I am old!).
and i always thought they were called microturd!! although saying that there a few people now running them here, one with dynoed 700 hp so they must be doing something right ???
its certainly not ecu of choice but was in my budget and easy to wire in to my kit car
Quote from: antnicuk;723910and i always thought they were called microturd!! although saying that there a few people now running them here, one with dynoed 700 hp so they must be doing something right ???
its certainly not ecu of choice but was in my budget and easy to wire in to my kit car
With a lot of polishing even a turd can shine :D
They are popular as they are simple, and few things to go wrong from a user end, just lack tuning scope, but they are cheap so cant really complain ;)
Quote from: RICE RACING;723895The Apexi PFC is totally inept at running anything larger than a 850cc injector as a primary. And even that size can hardly be tuned down to give an acceptable idle.
Best thing is to throw the ECU in the bin! (though sadly not an option if you want to run twins sequentially).
i know, i changed my 850 primairies back to 550 because of this. the 1600 secundairies were also big enough for me.
but to say you need to throw it in the bin is just mad talk..
ok, a haltech or whatever gives you way more tuning capabilities, but for 80% of the people, the powerFC works just fine!
powerFC is easy to come by, pretty cheap for a standalone and there is, from what i believe, a lot of knowledge in tuning them, in comparison to haltech systems on a rotary. (in the UK)
Thanks for the info everyone.
@riceracing: I lived in Sydney for almost 6 years and your comments on the microtech are amusing and mostly true :) if I mention the name Rigoli or TRP and what I\'ve seen in in their shop was quite funny at times - 5 minute tunes for 400+bhp cars :) but they are cheap and plentiful and can be made to work ok with enough time spent, not saying they are better than anything else though. My fav would be autronic, but I know guys who rave about the Link and they are also from NZ so why not?!
I\'m running a microsquirt with FC extras in a plug and play format so there was still a bit of work to do to get it built - I chose based on the forum support, price and the auto tune software VE analyze because I\'m lazy but I also like my cars to drive on a cold start.
I\'m getting high impedance 1600 secondaries but leaving the primaries as most base maps centre around those so less set up time and better cruise economy.