A dark, rainy, Friday morning rush hour at an island on a busy trunk road and it lets me down... glad the insurance provides free breakdown cover.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/24092010004.jpg)
Never been so glad to get back into the modern car.
You cant leave it at that, what was the problem ?
Ran out of petrol ...............:Giggle
I didnt dare say that, he lives too close to me!
Gave it some stick to overtake a hgv on the A5 and struggled to change up from 1st to 2nd.
Eventually got it into 2nd and then just about got 3rd and 4th.
Got to the island and completely lost the clutch. Couldn\'t put it into gear at all. Had to push the bloody thing in all the traffic off the carriageway onto a nearby pub carpark.
Pedal just goes to the floor. I\'m hoping it might just be the hydraulics or else it will turn into a big job that will probably have to wait until the spring cause I\'m too busy at the moment.
Had a quick look whilst waiting for the recovery truck and couldn\'t see any fluid leaking anywhere... I suppose the seal could be passing.
.
clutch fork(ed) ?
(http://www.projectzerog.com/images/rx7trans/transAccessories.jpg)
Quote from: yehreally;718028clutch fork ?
yeah, I reckon it could be, but I don\'t really want to think about it!
I was thrashing it when it just lost the clutch and the cylinders look dry so there\'s a good chance.
The pedal has completely gone.
If the pedal stayed on the floor it could be master cylinder, thats what mine did. Or as said the fork or the bearing gone through the pressure plate.
Did you get any noises ?
Look on the bright side................................You have now done 1000 posts
The pedal returns slowly as if the cylinder springs are bringing it back up but when I press it there\'s nothing there... hardly any resistance.... I reckon the problem is either the fork or the clutch... I was just hoping ( probably in vain) that it was something simple. I think that I must have bent and cracked the fork going from 1st to 2nd and then as I went up the box I\'ve broken it off or bent it so much it doesn\'t press the clutch.
I hope not!
Quote from: myatt1972;718033Look on the bright side................................You have now done 1000 posts
1000 posts in just over 12 months....
Could be the master cylinder - take a torch into the footwell and see if there is any play (rattling side fit) in the pushrod from the pedal.
Tough luck Ian but a 1000+ posts - well done
checked the hydraulics this morning, they\'re fine..... oh s***!
Tough Luck Ian. Feel the pain for you.
I can\'t see it waiting to the Spring though....That wouldn\'t be you at all. I bet it\'s in bits next week.
Dibs has shown us the way for getting new clutches though.
Bugger thats not good.:mad:
Quote from: David Nock;718125Tough Luck Ian. Feel the pain for you.
I can\'t see it waiting to the Spring though....That wouldn\'t be you at all. I bet it\'s in bits next week.
Dibs has shown us the way for getting new clutches though.
If it was just the clutch Dave, I\'d have done it this morning but this car is a bit more involved!
It\'s had a bit of a whine on the gearbox since I bought it and I was waiting to put in one of my spare boxes when I dropped the engine out to change the sump for the Elford turbo conversion.
Trouble is, my project car SPA is stuck over my pit with no suspension on it so the pit\'s out of action and so that makes the work on the other car more awkward... factor in dark nights, cold weather and the general pressures of life and it becomes a bit of a mare.
So it\'ll be bonnet off, rad out, exhaust off, prop off, engine and box out, change the sump, fix the clutch problem then rebuild it all......outside.... on the drive!
I really don\'t fancy it!
Are you sure the seals haven\'t failed and are just passing the fluid past the seals and not working at all.
The only newer car I have is the FD and it doesn\'t even have an engine at the minute.
Shaun
Looks like a mare then mate :eek:
If you lived locally I\'d offer assistance.
Ive got an engine crane at work, its pulled a few 12A\'s in its time.
Im going on my hols sunday till thursday but if you need it sooner I will ring the lads at work and you could collect it (wont fit in the jag though).
It does split into two parts and would fit in an estate or van.
I can give you a lift with things when I get back, I bet we could have it done in a couple of hours :Thumbs-up
Quote from: myatt1972;718198Ive got an engine crane at work, its pulled a few 12A\'s in its time.
Im going on my hols sunday till thursday but if you need it sooner I will ring the lads at work and you could collect it (wont fit in the jag though).
It does split into two parts and would fit in an estate or van.
I can give you a lift with things when I get back, I bet we could have it done in a couple of hours :Thumbs-up
cheers Keith, I\'ll give you a bell.
Quote from: Ian65;718020A dark, rainy, Friday morning rush hour at an island on a busy trunk road and it lets me down... glad the insurance provides free breakdown cover.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/24092010004.jpg)
Never been so glad to get back into the modern car.
Still looks like the dogs danglies, even in sick mode.
Quote from: shaunwil;718187Are you sure the seals haven\'t failed and are just passing the fluid past the seals and not working at all.
Shaun
When I press the clutch pedal down and hold it there, the slave actuates.... if there was a leak on the seals, I would expect the slave to slowly retract by itself, but it doesn\'t, it stays extended. There are no fluid leaks either, inside the rubber boots or anywhere that I can see.
The pedal hardly has any resistance either, and only rises back up very slowly, as if the cylinder springs, not the pressure plate are lifting it back up.
Ah, sounds like the clutch is knackered internally then :(
Shaun
Quote from: Ian65;718131my project car SPA is stuck over my pit with no suspension on it so the pit\'s out of action and so that makes the work on the other car more awkward... factor in dark nights, cold weather and the general pressures of life and it becomes a bit of a mare.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.....
I\'ve had to rope the wife in to help....!!
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/51bfd3fd.jpg)
.
I wondered where \'her in doors\' shot off to so early this morning - when I asked her for a leg up I didn\'t actually mean this, never mind Ian benefits again then.
Fair play lol.
saves me hunting around for the handle to the trolley jack!
Dolly Parts On.....weak pun there.
Double checked the hydraulics today, bled them and still couldn\'t get a pedal so decided to get the car up in the air and drop the gearbox... a pretty simple job on a 1st gen
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/cl1.jpg)
This is what I found in the bottom of the bellhousing.....remnants of the clutch plate...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/cl2.jpg)
Doesn\'t look good does it???
Dropped the clutch off next and this is what was left of it.... no wonder I couldn\'t get a pedal and completely lost the clutch.... it had totally disintegrated.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/cl3.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/cl4.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF0893.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/cl5.jpg)
In nearly 30 years of working on and restoring my cars, I\'ve never had such a
catastrophic clutch failure on a road car.
It\'s also taken the slave cylinder with it as well. Following the disintegration of the clutch plate, it meant that the piston and seal in the slave was allowed to travel further down the bore than usual and the seal then passed the rusty bit at the end of the bore, scoring the seal and causing it to leak. Great.
So far I\'m up to a new clutch and slave but I might as well go for it and fit the Elford stuff so I\'ll get the bits together and pull the engine next.
ooh er!
You made a right fine mess there!
Thought u were gonna fix in spring 2011,knew u could\'nt wait!
Best of luck with fix.
ta stu..
Quote from: syebba;719234ooh er!
You made a right fine mess there!
Thought u were gonna fix in spring 2011,knew u could\'nt wait!
Best of luck with fix.
ta stu..
I was gonna wait.....honest!
Problem was, I needed to get all the new parts together but I wouldn\'t know what I needed until I stripped it.
Now I\'ve started it I might as well do the turbo conversion.
It\'ll probably be the spring by the time it\'s up and running though!
Too late to take back to dealer for an engineering failure then!
Seriously Ian, I\'ve never seen such a failure in nearly 39 years of driving - how old was the clutch anyway?
As you say, it would seem pointless just to replace the clutch and then have to do alterations with Elford equipment later on - just frustrating more than anything I would imagine but don\'t thinks always break or fail when we least expect them too.
Good luck with the modifications mate.
:guinness
wow, you definitely got full life out of the clutch then !
Shaun
Quote from: shaunwil;719262wow, you definitely got full life out of the clutch then !
Shaun
That\'s a good one :Giggle
got a clutch...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mazda-RX7-1978-1988-new-2-part-clutch-/280461217225?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item414cca8dc9
Ian that was the chap I was going to get my clutch from, but decided to go for the 225mm one from the States. Have you spoken to him as he is very knowledgeable and said he would fit the clutch for me. I my still use him as he is not that far away from me.
Quote from: A7RXY;719343Ian that was the chap I was going to get my clutch from, but decided to go for the 225mm one from the States. Have you spoken to him as he is very knowledgeable and said he would fit the clutch for me. I my still use him as he is not that far away from me.
Hi Dibs,
I haven\'t spoken to him, I bought it purely based on the price.
I\'ve being trying to work out which parts were fitted to my car and which new parts would therefore fit and with help from Keith I think we\'ve now bottomed it out.
The 225mm clutch plate is the correct clutch for the S3 and the right one for your car. You could have fitted the smaller clutch but on an original unmessed with car like yours, orginality is best.
My car had had an engine swap about 8 years back but I didn\'t know if the engine was a s1,s2 or s3 and if this affected anything.
We\'ve now worked out that it has a s3 gearbox mated to a s2 engine and a 215mm clutch
We\'ve also deduced the following which might help someone else sometime...
Gearboxes.S2 & S3 boxes look the same and either will bolt up to either engine s2 or s3.
The splines are the same and will run either clutch 215mm or 225mm.
The internals however are slightly different. The way to identify which box you have is to undo the 10mm bolt and pull out the speedo drive.
A s2 box has this green drive with a coarse pitch....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/gd.jpg)
A s3 box has this drive with the fine pitch....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/bd.jpg)
neither drives are interchangeable. The fine pitch s3 drive gives the correct ratio for the 14" s3 wheels. Drop in a s2 box and your speedo readings will be out.
ClutchThe 215mm clutch will fit both gearboxes and both s2 & s3 engines.
The 225mm clutch will only fit the s3 engine.... this is because the flywheel is different between the 2 engines.
The s3 flywheel is has a wider mating surface to accomodate the wider clutch plate.
Elford put 165bhp through the 215mm clutch so if it was good enough for them, it\'ll do for me.
The difference in price between a new 225mm clutch and a 215mm one is huge. 35 quid for a complete clutch is a bargain.
Well that\'s that sorted ........Inspector Noch better watch out as there are new detectives about ........... all very good info thou.
Good luck with the rebuild
Dibs
Excellent info on the clutch plate sizing there Ian - I hve been watching the rBay seller for a few months but was not sure of it\'s suitability for the S2 but now you\'ve answerd that one.
So I immediately went to buy it for a spare and guess what - :flamedgone! Hmmm....wonder who might have bought it - well done.
Never mind I\'ll keep searching now I know for sure what size plate is required.
Cliff
Cliff
You can ring the guy selling the clutch on 01375 378060 as I\'m sure when I spoke to him he had more than one set.
Dibs
No difference in the oil filler plug level between boxes Ian? If not then that casts doubt on the reference to higher oil level in S3 boxes.
Quote from: A7RXY;719406Cliff
You can ring the guy selling the clutch on 01375 378060 as I\'m sure when I spoke to him he had more than one set.
Dibs
Might just do that Dibs - I bought a new clutch plate this morning for 25 + p&p off eBay. As I say this is just for a spare in the event that it may not be required but after reading and seeing Ians\' failure, wow, who knows!.Cheers for that Cliff
I remember paying around £100 for mine but it was the 225mm one. Still got the original one as a spare though !
Shaun
Have you tried Gary at Rotechniks :yes 01189 888555
Quote from: shaunwil;719484I remember paying around £100 for mine but it was the 225mm one. Still got the original one as a spare though !
Shaun
100 quid is a good price in the Uk for a 225mm clutch.... they are quite a bit cheaper overseas for some reason but then you\'ve got to ship them.
The 215mm clutch can be picked up really cheap, I\'ve just paid £35 for one, you\'d never get the S3 clutch for that price.
It was a blueprint one from a local motor factor. But it was almost 3yrs ago !
Shaun
the new clutch arrived today...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/newclutch.jpg)
a nice bonus was that it also included the release bearing as well that wasn\'t described in the auction. I got a price on a release bearing today before this arrived and was quoted £18.00 + vat so £35.00 all in for this clutch is a right bargain. Great service as well from this seller.
Dibs reckons the guys got a few of these. If that\'s the case, buy them now while you can!
225mm clutch kit on e-bay, seems a good price.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panther-Clutch-Kit-MAZDA-RX7-2-3-12A-SA22-84-85-/310260971893?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483cfeb975
Keith...
Nice find Keith - have flagged up to watch. If I complete a deal soon I will probably need one.
Ta.
Quote from: Ian65;718020A dark, rainy, Friday morning rush hour at an island on a busy trunk road and it lets me down... glad the insurance provides free breakdown cover.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/24092010004.jpg)
Never been so glad to get back into the modern car.
although this thread was started on a somewhat negative note in the midst of my clutch woes, praise where praise is due.
My car has stood outside in temperatures of -10 for the last 3 weeks with out being started and looked a bit forlorn this morning...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/sd2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/sd1.jpg)
so I cleaned the snow off it...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/sd3.jpg)
and it started 1st turn of the key...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/sd4.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/sd5.jpg)
gotta love these simple old cars!!!
Not quite the record set by that car abandoned for 14 odd years but good enough for me.
The battery on the Jag has been getting weaker each morning as the temperatures get colder and colder to the point where I was wondering if it would start ( thoughts we never usually have with modern cars) but this 26 year old classic doesn\'t get touched and is ready to burst into life. Great!
They seem to take storage/not being run, well.
I left mine in the garage for over 4 months,started 2nd turn of the key!
ta stu..
Don\'t like to admit it but our Elford had not been turned over for 18 months. Charged battery, started first turn of the key. (turned over for a long time to be fair...)
John