:WaveBye hi guys, new to the rotary game but loving the learning process! im currently running a to4e on standard injectors, acieved 399fwhp and 331whp at reworx b4 the injectors maxed out!
looking to max out the to4e so looking for my fuel system options...
my pockets arnt as deep as id like atm so a bargain or cheaper but reliable option is always welcom lol!
Would primary 850cc\'s be good enough baring in mind the recommended 85% cycle??
If not i hav seen a SARD Secondary Fuel Rail Kit with 2 x SARD 1000cc Injectors going pretty cheap, any1 got any opinions on this option??
http://www.rhdjapan.com/sard-aluminum-fuel-rail-delivery-pipe-fd3s-13b-rew-25594 this is a link to the kit!
It mentions that id need to run a dropping resistor with the 1000cc injectors is this true and if so where cud i find one??
any advice would be great, thanks guys :)
thats an awful lot on standard injectors at standard fuel pressures 330hp is about the max i ran on my standard fuel system. your going to go bang any second mate.
If I were you, I would get a secondary rail from Kev@BilletBitz.co.uk (less than £100 IIRC), then a pair of Bosch 1680\'s (about £150 or so), and then hook them up to either a Sard or Aeromotive FPR.
That will see you with easily enough fuel, and scope fo ra lot more.
You will also need a pump to support it. Cheap option is the Walbro from Driftworks for about 80 quid, or the more expensive a Bosch 044.
tbh, I\'m surprised nothing\'s broken yet if you are pushing nearly 400 on stock injectors!!!
id buy the 1000s mate. and have 850s
i have resisitors for sale and 2 secondary 850cc injectors. ill sort em with you a week on monday if you want
Quote from: SiH;716605If I were you, I would get a secondary rail from Kev@BilletBitz.co.uk (Kev@BilletBitz.co.uk) (less than £100 IIRC), then a pair of Bosch 1680\'s (about £150 or so), and then hook them up to either a Sard or Aeromotive FPR.
That will see you with easily enough fuel, and scope fo ra lot more.
You will also need a pump to support it. Cheap option is the Walbro from Driftworks for about 80 quid, or the more expensive a Bosch 044.
tbh, I\'m surprised nothing\'s broken yet if you are pushing nearly 400 on stock injectors!!!
or do that. thats cheap. i run a similar set up.
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;716606id buy the 1000s mate. and have 850s
i have resisitors for sale and 2 secondary 850cc injectors. ill sort em with you a week on monday if you want
yeh sounds good gimme a message thanks! i think ill go for the sard kit and 1000s as it is going pretty cheap! as for fuel pump it already has a walbro so hopefully that will do till i invest in the noisy bosch!
scary comments about my current setup... street port, to4e, walbro pump, standard injectors, 0.8bar of boost injector duty reads upto 98% at 8000rpm.... i gather that doesnt sound healthy??
Unless I\'m much mistaken, that rail is a repalcement for primary and secondary with top feeds. If you want to use the primary rail, you\'ll need new injectors. You\'ll also need new injectors for the secodnary rail as well. By the time you\'ve paid duty and VAT and delviery, it will work out a fair chunk more. You\'ll also still need an FPR
Get the BileltBitz/Bosch setup and save £££
sorry i didnt explain.. ive found a guy selling just the secondary rail with new 1000cc injectors for 260 in the uk so id then only require some braided lines and fpr! so i think the outlay will be much the same as the billitbitz/bosch option! would i need to run 850 primary with the 1000 secondary and same with the bosch 1680s??
Sard & 1000ccs second hand, or Billetbitz & 1680ccs brand new... for the same price... let me think...
And then no need for 850 primaries, stick with 550\'s.
the sard kit is brand new only dry fitted, everything zero miles! it just looked a bargain as the kit and injectors from dealer is £400+ but i didnt consider the fact id hav to change the primaries too...
if i go the billitbitz/bosch route is there need for a fuel resistor or does the fpr replace the need for1? and any1 know of a compatible fuel line, fittings and fixtures kit?? cheers
You don\'t need to change the primaries on either setup, (though you may choose to) but you will need to do some fiddling about with the primary rail to get them fitted: bits are needed to connect the fuel lines up...
E.g. I am going with braided hose throughout and AN fittings, so I had to tap the primary rail at both ends (1.4 inch NPT) and install 45 degree NPT to AN adapters. Other people just use screw in NPT to push fit...
If your SARD kit comes with hose and fittings, then £260 is a great price... but I bet it doesn\'t. The Billetbitz is just the secondary rail - you need to source injectors, resistors/drivers and hosing yourself.
For fittings you can easily spend >£150 plus just on hoses and fittings if you go the AN / braided route. You can do much cheaper if you go with push fit connectors and standard hose.
Easier for you to do some searches on here and RX7club in the states to see what is involved...
right... going on what every1 has said ive found a kit on mazdarotaryparts.com for £400 and that includes the secondary rail, primary rail adapter, fpr, 2x bosch 1680cc injectors and all the fuel lines, fittings and everything else for a bolt on kit.... in the long run i can see buying the parts seperate cud work out to be costly and alot of hassel!
does any1 know this kit?? no bomb shells any1 wants to drop about this 1 lol??
cheers for any advice again!
Heh, yes! Like every Rotary parts shop (You know who you are!) all prices are Ex VAT, Ex Delivery :) So £470 plus delivery.
Not knocking the kit though, I\'ve no first hand experience: prob not braided lines and AN fittings, but I could be wrong (and they are probably overkill anyway to be fair!) - you can deffo trust them as a shop though!
What were your injector duty cycles like on those standard injectors?
Quote from: Aubec;716743Heh, yes! Like every Rotary parts shop (You know who you are!) all prices are Ex VAT, Ex Delivery :) So £470 plus delivery.
Not knocking the kit though, I\'ve no first hand experience: prob not braided lines and AN fittings, but I could be wrong (and they are probably overkill anyway to be fair!) - you can deffo trust them as a shop though!
in description it does say "Braided fuel lines and fittings from secondary rail back to firewall included" :Thumbs-up
on my current standard injectors injector duty hits around 98% at 8000rpm.... not had any issues and had it mapped at reworx about 3-4 months ago but after reading the shock and horror in some of u guys replies ill be upgrading asap!
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65883
lol just found a thread on hear... this is the sard kit i was looking at but he has brought down his price a little now!
Hi,
And thanks to all the responses above :confused:
I bought the rail from Clive (Mazdarotaryparts) still in its box just opened.
The Sard Injectors are still in there Boxes, So I would imagine these are slightly better than "second hand".
I bought the rail and Injectors to match a T04E, I was going to fit to the FD. But was offered a T04R at a price i could refuse.
The rail and injectors are perfect for a T04E or similar unit, but since I got the T04R, I had to change my plans hence the sale.
Take a look at this Sevens Sins FD with Sard Rail and Injectors-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I594HQCHgHc
Make your own mind up...
Regards,
Paul
Too Add,
This is only the Secondary Rail which consists of -
1 x Rail
Fitting for either end of Rail (Banjo Adaptor)
Fuel Temp Sensor Adaptor.
Fuelt Temp Sensor Bung (If you wish to remove the Fuel Temp Sensor)
You will require a ACV Block off plate.
2 x Injectors with "new" Denso Injector clips to replace you old brittle ones.
I\'ll throw in the mixing plates from my FD that have to be modified as per the Sard Instructions.
I will also throw in some AN4 Braided hose if you like.
Regards,
Paul
hi paul,
ur kit does look bloody lovely dont get me wrong.... but my concerns are that ill require alot of parts to complete the system, to which i wouldnt hav a clue where to start lol and will potentially bump up the price quite considerably.
the mazdarotaryparts kit has everything required, including frp, fuel lines, adapters and fittings back to the firewall! plusas it has 1680cc injectors it would not require me to run 850cc in the primay rail saving on the cost of that too!
i found this table on the linked site explaining the total flow to rwhp conversion! http://www.turborx7.com/fuelsystem.htm
| Primary | Secondary | Total Flow
(cc/min)
| Appx. max RWHP @
100% duty cycle
| Appx. max RWHP @
85% duty cycle
|
|---|
| 550 | 850 | 2800 | 360 | 305 |
| 850 | 850 | 3400 | 435 | 370 |
| 550 | 1200 | 3500 | 450 | 380 |
| 550 | 1300 | 3700 | 475 | 405 |
| 850 | 1200 | 4100 | 525 | 445 |
| 850 | 1300 | 4300 | 550 | 465 |
| 550 | 1600 | 4300 | 550 | 465 |
using this calculation with 1000cc secondary injectors id require 850cc primary injectors in order to get the total flow to 3700 which would just about give me the 400rwhp at 85% duty cycle im looking for! where as u can see the 550 and 1600 will cover it quite easily!
if im completely off the mark with the costing and caluculations here (which is quite possible) please do explain as i am new to this and ill put my hand up, im no mechanic!
cheers