Since i live in the north east there arnt any up here that map rotary\'s.
What are people experience of the tuners in the UK.
RE-Worx is to far
Dragon is too far
So that leaves WGT (Pip being the closest but not by far) and the ones in London. Just looking for people opinions
Car has an Apexi PFC and i am hoping for 500rwhp when tuned.
Yes, the nearest to you will be Pip. He is an experienced engine builder and tuner and I would recommend him. He has tuned a few RX-7\'s for me as well as REworx. Especially if you do not fancy travelling too far south.
It does come down to cost aswell, but before i start phoning them for prices and availability in the next couple of weeks it was just a nose to see what people say
Tunign shouldn\'t really come down to cost dude - it can make or break an engine, and make or break a driving experience.
I\'d deffo be heading for Pip if I were you. In fact, you can have my end of the month slot if it turns out my car\'s blown up :D
Always gone to pip over the 6yrs of ownership :D
Shaun
my motor was built by WGT (before i bought the car) and seems to be very strong.
RE:Worx mapped it and were great, Geoff let me know weak areas of the engine that needed improving, areas that were working well that i should leave well alone and even pushed it through an MOT for me.
cost is an issue when some tuners charge £400 for mapping and are .... but some charge £300 and are a good.
I have heard Pip maps rich for safety
I dont know if your north east scotland or england bud, but im from aberdeen an im planning on taking my car to pip\'s after iv broken in the engine.
I mate of mine got his car mapped buy a guy that goes by the name of The Dentist, he is based near glasgow, and comes with the reputation with never loosing any sort of engine, however i dont know how many rotories he done......at least one anyway, i can get a price from my mate if your interested?
the dentist is pretty well know in the evo game, hes mapped alot of them to big power, but like you say, havent heard of him doing any rotarys yet.
What about Hayward north?
A few of my mates over in Norway bring their RX7s over to WGT lol its not even in the same country!
why dont you learn to map yourself, its a great experience and not massively hard, plenty of advice around the world if your prepared to look, thats what im doing
Quote from: turbotoaster;709905why dont you learn to map yourself, its a great experience and not massively hard, plenty of advice around the world if your prepared to look, thats what im doing
i did too and it was not the minefield i was made to believe. i think its 250 for datalogit 150 for a wideband. if you have a pfc and a laptop away you go :WaveBye:3gears-rh
plus it gives you chance to try things out and learnt alot more about your car, say you have it mapped by someone and something goes wrong at a later date, your not gonna be able to make adjustments to the map to fix the problem.
im going for 19-20psi on pump fuel in a week or so once ive sorted out the solenoids, ask 99% of tuners to map it for that and they will tell you to bugger off.
Id hate to have to rely on someone elses work when i could do it myself and miss out on learning a very important aspect of vehicle knowledge.
Where in the north east do you live?
Im in Northumberland mate and drove down to Pips to get mine mapped and cant fault the experience and a quality drive home. Me and the wife just made a weekend of it and went to chester zoo etc.
This is the problem, i am looking for mine to be mapped at 1.4-1.5 bar and I know some tuners will just say NO.
Most just map at 1 bar and leave it at that, well thats no good for me.
I have mapped piston engines but I sold my datalogic at the begining of the year and at the moment its not worth starting again.
Toaster: Newcastle
Whats the spec of your engine and Turbo Hammer? you may not need that much boost to get 500rwhp
Very big street port
Gt4088r
8.5cr rotors
850 and 1600 injectors
Water Injection
PFC
Apexi BNR fuel pump
500 at the wheels is what i am looking for.
your pump is not big enough for UK 500rwhp, the turbo may just about do it but yes it will need to be high boost at around 1.5 BAR with the WI
Have you got a 3 BAR map sensor?, as the stock sensor runs out of signal at around 1.2--1.3 BAR
Pip will be the man to take it to realistically near you but he may not map it that high.
the pump will flow 300l/h so should be OK.
This Apexi BNR32 pump flows over 82 g/hr which is 310 l/hr at 55psi (base fuel at 35psi + 20psi boost) at 13.2 volts.
Just ordered a 3 bar map sensor ready for next week.
I know Pip wont run it that high, thats why I was looking for someone that would.
Well I outflowed a Apexi BNR32 pump at 450rwhp , reality and theory are two different things, the BNR is now my lift pump feeding a swirl pot to two Bosch 044s.
Jaydee is the North London man and he has experiance mapping at high boost, you can PM him on FDUK
Jaydee, errmm no thanks
I suppose i will have to see what the apexi BNR can do.
No worries good luck dude let us know how you get on, you will be one of 5 UK street 13B FDs to achieve 500rwhp so will be an awesome achievement if ya get the job done.
Cheers,
I might just bite the bullet and go for 2 044\'s to be sure.
Anyone tried these in-tank, i will have to make a bracket for them to fit but thats no problem.
Quote from: Hammer;709968Very big street port
Gt4088r
8.5cr rotors
850 and 1600 injectors
Water Injection
PFC
Apexi BNR fuel pump
500 at the wheels is what i am looking for.
only person i would recommend in the uk for running 1.5bar on pump with w/i is ross at dragon performance, he used to run his old spare car at that boost for about a year on pump fuel.
Noone else will tune it ill bet.
Im mapping my car myself and will tune my car to 1.5bar when i go single but my knowledge isnt good enough for the moment to be able to offer a guarantee on my work, ive only mapped up to 17psi on my car, which will be up to 20psi in a couple of weeks, but 20psi and 22.5psi is another big step
I might hit 500 at 20psi, I dont know yet till I try.
I might have to travel to ross to get it done. I\'d rather get everything sorted before I go down there than find out whilst tuning I need something better.
Engine has just been rebuilt, better clutch to go in early next week and then sort the fueling out.
fingers crossed.
Quote from: Hammer;710006Jaydee, errmm no thanks
I suppose i will have to see what the apexi BNR can do.
LOL......why do you say that?...Jay Dee knows his stuff.
Bad experience already
so you had a rex before?
Had a rex years ago.
had gtr\'s and a GT4 aswell.
basically with the same spec as yourself ive seen 530bhp(450whp) at 17.4psi with a gt4088 with a 1.28a/r turbine.....what a/.r are you running as that will start to hold you back at higher boost levels.
also 2 things you have missed, are you running the w/i pre or post turbo and what ignition system are you going for, if your aiming for 1.5bar you will need 550cc of water at least and you will struggle to get twinpower to fire that, i have a few suggestions for you on that if you want them
keep us updated with how things go and who you go to.
got any pics of the car?? should bring it to jap north east meet on sunday if its road worthy.
1.28 ar back end. With a twinfire aswell. I also have a fc coil I can put on aswell if needed.
Wi is post turbo at the moment, but planning on running post and pre turbo. Should be easy to do.
good lad, sound like its doable, make sure you fit decent plugs and yes fit that fc coil, with an fc coil and twin power ive seen 23psi and 550cc of water fire ok, but that was on its limit....and that was also pre turbo w/i.......i would just purely stay pre turbo, if you go post intercooler you will struggle to fire that much water with twin power.
Go pre turbo 550cc its been proven to work for 1.5bar of boost with your setup.
also intercooler setup?
Greddy front mount at the moment.
I fancy trying pre and post turbo wi, if it\'s .... then I can take some extra wi jets with me so it\'s just pre turbo.
It\'s worth ago and means I get benefit of both pre and post cooling.
That should be twinpower not twinfire lol
dont get me wrong, post is a good idea, but remember it puts alot more strain on your ignition system, maybe try 300cc pre and 300cc post, that way the pre will take alot of heat out of the turbo and maybe drop down to 150cc by the time it joins up with the post jet so will keep the ignition firing.
Have a read of these 2 threads, you might have already read them though im guessing. some good info in there
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=807016
that one above is pretty much the same size turbo and spec as you so should be a direct comparison
the one below is at the extreme end but good reading
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=863250
I have had a read through them already, good threads but will read through them again.
is your car blue with gold wheels
Quote from: Hammer;709968Very big street port
Gt4088r
8.5cr rotors
850 and 1600 injectors
Water Injection
PFC
Apexi BNR fuel pump
500 at the wheels is what i am looking for.
I\'ve heard alot of good things about Jaydee that\'s who I\'m planning on getting my car tuned by
Quote from: JamietypeR;710107I\'ve heard alot of good things about Jaydee that\'s who I\'m planning on getting my car tuned by
+1 Jaydee knows his stuff:yes Has mapped mine to 1.5 bar runs sweet as a nut and although i have no dyno print to prove im gonna hazard a guess that its running about 550rwhp:Thumbsup!
whats your best terminal speed at pod, that will give us an idea of your power lee.
ah it makes sense now, Hammer bought that blue one, hence the spec is the same
Quote from: turbotoaster;710113whats your best terminal speed at pod, that will give us an idea of your power lee.
Havent had a chance to get up there this year:mad: to busy with work. Although car was 450rwhp@ .9 bar so i think my guess shouldnt be far out:Thumbs-up
yea bought the blue car with gold wheels.
was running 530ish flywheel power, but the engine was a pile of .....
Rebuilt it myself and reported the inlet and exhaust, then sorted the engine with low comp rotors and good seals.
Just ran it in and its 10x times better than it was, boost comes on strong at low rpm since i have done a bit of research on porting and done it right this time. But I am limited to 4000rpm at the moment since it isnt mapped correctly.
Good thing is it is running rich at the moment but this needs to be changed and mapped right.
I have changed alot on the car in the last few months, its something special now.
story was he built the engine, and when I took it apart it was one of the worse port jobs I have seen. The engine wasnt the best.
I had a Judge ITO porting template for a previous build and used that to sort the porting, re-freshed the plates and used another another good set of housings and ported them.
Rotors are T2 8.5cr with mazda side and coner seals, and unbreakable apex seals.
New clutch to take the power it will be running.
did you trade another car or buy in out right coz i herd that wgt had built it again coz the guy that had it ran lean coz it wasnt map and it went pop
after all jas builds and maps my car and its run 1.5 bar last time it was put on rollers it made 437whp at 5600 didnt run all the way coz the wastegate fail
It was advertised as being built by jaydee, but who knows.
Anyway whoever built it needs a slap.
But if jaydee can map it and he is good I will give him a chance.
i may be wrong but i was led to believe ross learnt alot of his mapping from jaydee??? for that boost on w.i. they are the guys to go to, as mark said you need to look at your fuel system
Who knows, there will always be rumors going round and not many will know the truth.
The fuel system is getting sorted, I have a few ideas.
not being funny....but if i was Jaydee...I wouldnt touch your car after that!!!!
I know you were given that impression when you bought it but maybe you should have done some reasearch first before slating his rep and buying the car.....people do lie you know:2Mad
Jay maps and builds my car....last engine made 450 rwhp at one bar on a streetport...new one....well lets just say its gonna be sick...only changed coz i wanted more power......certainly not the type of results you would get from a shoddy engine builder!!!:spank
Scratchies, I bought the car outright by a guy called Thomas glover
Ed, I have heard other rumors of jaydee aswell, but I havnt posted them on here and that was 3 months ago.
All this bull.... of slagging tuners off is the same on the skyline forums, it will happen everywhere.
Calculator for fuel pump requirements. http://www.wannaspeed.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=19&chapter=1
Quote from: turbotoaster;710066Have a read of these 2 threads, you might have already read them though im guessing. some good info in there
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=807016
that one above is pretty much the same size turbo and spec as you so should be a direct comparison
The guy in that thread ^(dudemaaanownsanrx7) is the owner of the wannaspeed.com website. I think he\'s traveled to tune a couple Rx7\'s, you might contact him either through the forum or through his website. He has a lot of experience with the PFC+ datalogit, and tuning high boost levels with water injection. Worth a shot anyway
Quote from: Hammer;710166It was advertised as being built by jaydee, but who knows.
Anyway whoever built it needs a slap.
But if jaydee can map it and he is good I will give him a chance.
Hahaha.
Are you for real?
I wouldn\'t go anywhere else but to Jaydee for mapping and building my engine. He has helped me so much with my car and is always at hand to help.
His engine building is an artwork.. so to call his porting what you did... again are you for REAL?
You have just slated arguably the best mapper and builder for rotaries in the country without foundation.
Maybe you should have checked with Jaydee regarding the car before posting the dribble you did.
maybe the person I bought the car needs a slap for saying jaydee built the engine.
who knows the history of a car, they only go by the info they have been given and the advert stated Jaydee built the engine.
Is there any proof he didnt?? If so please show me, the only proof i have is he built it so what do you want me to say??
And also without opening the engine up, no-one could have guessed who built the engine.
well now if that true then the engine in that car was not built by Jasdee as that car was swapped not sold and the guy you call Thomas ran it lean and poped it as he call Matt leach up and asking why in made 1.4 bar when the boost controller was turned on so i would say that WGT has changed the engine plates and the housing as they were brand new housing hope this clears somethings up
as i have already said jas is .... hot and i think i can say for all that have had or still got or running on his maps they make more power than others after all who do you thing built Ross engine with him and mapped it and made 9.1 1/4 mile blar blar blar it just seems your think you no ALOT and you no .... when you paid jas to do something only then can slate his work not just being told he dont it after all you kind of talk makes things bad for somone who done nothing but good
Quote from: Hammer;710176Scratchies, I bought the car outright by a guy called Thomas glover
Well if that is the case then I will retract my statements.
So you are saying the engine was built by WGT??
Quote from: scratchies;710194who do you thing built Ross engine with him and mapped it and made 9.1 1/4 mile blar blar blar it just seems your think you no ALOT and you no ....
Hear that a lot! BUT its Not true. Jason and I worked together on the drag car and our time together ended when the car did a 10.6@138mph.
Since then I have solely done all the mapping and engine building.
True I first met jason requesting him to map my car when I was just a RX7 enthusiast.
He was new to mapping and unfortunately blew the engine, but learnt that its important to check ign values in the log rather tha just the map.
From this point on I took a more active role in the mapping.
Quote from: DRAGON;710234Hear that a lot! BUT its Not true. Jason and I worked together on the drag car and our time together ended when the car did a 10.6@138mph.
Since then I have solely done all the mapping and engine building.
True I first met jason requesting him to map my car when I was just a RX7 enthusiast.
He was new to mapping and unfortunately blew the engine, but learnt that its important to check ign values in the log rather tha just the map.
From this point on I took a more active role in the mapping.
this is way i hate Internet rumors...
Anyway, back to the point of the thread.
Ross, would you be willing to map the engine to 500rwhp?
Your in the North East!
Although saying that Topgear shipped a FD over form the Nurburg to us on monday, so maybe the North isnt to far!
The main thing with mapping for high HP is the ancillaries being all good.
I cerainly dont mind mapping for high boost. But I dont like mapping cars built without love and attention to detail!
I\'ll give you a call, you a big distance away but travelling isnt such a big deal anyway
Matt Leach strikes again..........when will he ever learn
Quote from: scratchies;710194well now if that true then the engine in that car was not built by Jasdee as that car was swapped not sold and the guy you call Thomas ran it lean and poped it as he call Matt leach up and asking why in made 1.4 bar when the boost controller was turned on so i would say that WGT has changed the engine plates and the housing as they were brand new housing hope this clears somethings up
as i have already said jas is .... hot and i think i can say for all that have had or still got or running on his maps they make more power than others after all who do you thing built Ross engine with him and mapped it and made 9.1 1/4 mile blar blar blar it just seems your think you no ALOT and you no .... when you paid jas to do something only then can slate his work not just being told he dont it after all you kind of talk makes things bad for somone who done nothing but good
Just told Dave all of this Stu. :p
Cheers for that Ash,
OOO the joys of buying an FD
Use anyone.
Alot of the maps ive seen are similar timing wise. so its just a case of fueling then which anyone can do.
Quote from: DRAGON;710240The main thing with mapping for high HP is the ancillaries being all good.
amen that man.
its funny how people think they are going to make power cus they read it on the internetz and slag off the tuner when it doesn\'t because they used ebay copy parts
show me a 130+mph terminal and ill start listening on what people have to say when it comes to tuning a rotary, cus afterall, thats where it counts, dyno figures mean nothing, anyone can fudge those if they know what they are doing
c
Yip ancillaries need to be 100% to make big power, our cars are a good 15-18 years old, crap hard split wiring,fried coils,sticking wastegates,injectors not flowing correctly,fuel pumps going south etc etc the little things make the big things go bang
Quote from: mx1311;710278amen that man.
its funny how people think they are going to make power cus they read it on the internetz and slag off the tuner when it doesn\'t because they used ebay copy parts
show me a 130+mph terminal and ill start listening on what people have to say when it comes to tuning a rotary, cus afterall, thats where it counts, dyno figures mean nothing, anyone can fudge those if they know what they are doing
c
Yes people can make dyno results look better than what the car puts out but what does a 130+ trap speed mean to a car that is set-up as a track car.
Drag racing and track racing are 2 different things, a good drag good will be crap on the track and vice versa.
On the other hand say a car is capable of pushing X ammount of power and when it is mapped it falls short because the tuner has put a conservative map on there so it doesnt pop a few months down the line.
This is so the tuner doesnt get a bad name for popping engines by keeping things safe.
Then people slag the tuner off for not producing the goods, since they have spend a small fortune on upgrades on the engine to hit that power.
This is the whole point of the thread.
Quote from: Hammer;710303what the car puts out but what does a 130+ trap speed mean to a car that is set-up as a track car.
Drag racing and track racing are 2 different things, a good drag good will be crap on the track and vice versa.
Not quite correct, if you have lots of power and its a circuit car and you put in on the strip, yes the ET will be crap due to grip and suspension settings which will harm the 60ft and the quarter mile time (ET) but you will still post a high terminal speed regardless
example Whiftbitz old rx7 Time attack car well over 500rwhp was put on the strip still with its circuit tyres and still managed a 11 second quarter and terminal speed just under 130mph
Same with 88GTR FC 446rwhp , proper circuit car in Time attack, took it to the strip again 11.3 quarters with terminals 125+
A high terminal speed will always show high horsepower regardless if its a Drag or circuit car
Yea i agree, but to say you need to have 130+ trap speed to be considered good isnt the full truth as we agree.
RWD cars are hard to launch on the strip, even harder if they arnt set-up for the strip.
I think what mx1311 is aluding to with the 130mph quote is that a lot of people say they have made/tuned RX7s with 400+ 500+ 600+ hp , then they show off loads of dyno prints with huge horsepowers means nothing, or they say yeah I got lots of power but I never dynoed it but my butt dyno is accurate on the road.
The only true thing that proves you have the HP you say you have, is a high terminal speed.
If you can say you have done a 130mph terminal in a moderately weighted RX7 you do indeed have a true 500rwhp
When you say to people in the know as it were that you have achieved 130mph terminal, people sit up listen.
Ross has the knowledge to get you to where you want to be, but let me tell you something if you never been in a 450rwhp FD RX7 be prepared to be very scared!, 500rwhp is just insane defo not the same as being in a similar powered Supra or Skyline.
I have turn the boost right down on my mine for normal road driving and even then its too fast for the road.
Big Power in an FD is addictive but it can bite you in the ass, be careful out there kids LOL
Lol Blitzboy a 130 terminal to prove you have over 500whp?
Really? Even on street tires that aren\'t slicks?
What biltzboy is saying is if you get close to that then yea. Aslong as you take other things into fact i.e tyres, suspension, weight ect.
I did own a 700bhp R32, and I know how scary they can be.
Quote from: Rex_FTW;710316Lol Blitzboy a 130 terminal to prove you have over 500whp?
Really? Even on street tires that aren\'t slicks?
did I say anything about what tyres being used? these circuit cars had R888s or treaded Drag radial tyres bolted to them
I have seen a few FDs in the past with normal street tyres achieve 125+ terminals, not many true 450+ rwhp FDs out there, you need at least that to get 125+
Experiance I have seen with my eyes not just internet speak my friend :)
Trap speeds are a very good measure of actual power. The speed you cross the line at is what correlates to horsepower, all those other things (tires, suspension, 2-steps, etc) help or hinder your ET and have a minimal effect on trap speed.
Quote from: kompactor;710321Trap speeds are a very good measure of actual power. The speed you cross the line at is what correlates to horsepower, all those other things (tires, suspension, 2-steps, etc) help or hinder your ET and have a minimal effect on trap speed.
Perfectly described in a nutshell :Thumbsup!
I think I write too much lol
Also keep in mind after the 500 RWHP mark things really start breaking more. The differential is usually first to go. A good clutch style differential is the way to go here. The axles will be next, especially if you launch. The PPF is going to take a beating so solid differential mounts and transmission brace are in order. Nothing less then 275mm rear tires on 10" wheels unless you like spinning at 100+mph in 4th gear. (Actually a bit of fun but not much help in acceleration)
Good clutch obviously. A twin disk is the smart way to go. Will last a long time, hold the power and have very decent pedal effort for a street car. Otherwise ACT XT with 6 puck sprung will hold but is a bit harsh.
Making 500+ power isn\'t particularly hard, but staying there is expensive
Quote from: BlitzBoy;710313I think what mx1311 is aluding to with the 130mph quote is that a lot of people say they have made/tuned RX7s with 400+ 500+ 600+ hp , then they show off loads of dyno prints with huge horsepowers means nothing, or they say yeah I got lots of power but I never dynoed it but my butt dyno is accurate on the road.
The only true thing that proves you have the HP you say you have, is a high terminal speed.
If you can say you have done a 130mph terminal in a moderately weighted RX7 you do indeed have a true 500rwhp
When you say to people in the know as it were that you have achieved 130mph terminal, people sit up listen.
Ross has the knowledge to get you to where you want to be, but let me tell you something if you never been in a 450rwhp FD RX7 be prepared to be very scared!, 500rwhp is just insane defo not the same as being in a similar powered Supra or Skyline.
I have turn the boost right down on my mine for normal road driving and even then its too fast for the road.
Big Power in an FD is addictive but it can bite you in the ass, be careful out there kids LOL
Maybe I spend too much time in a vauxhall astra nowadays but I find lightly modfied fd\'s too fast on the road or maybe i\'m just getting older. Blitz I\'ve never seen you doing less than 60mph anytime I\'ve seen you on the road, would love to see you on police camera action lol.
rgds
Brian
too many people talk and dont do, as seen in this thread
and 125+ terminals can be achieved on full track susp, geom, 888\'s and .9bar boost
Quote from: BlitzBoy;710011No worries good luck dude let us know how you get on, you will be one of 5 UK street 13B FDs to achieve 500rwhp so will be an awesome achievement if ya get the job done.
make it 6 :wave
lol what did you make rob
Quote from: rbs14a;710823make it 6 :wave
Quote from: rbs14a;710823make it 6 :wave
Spill the beans Rob:yes
I dont know Jaydee but I heard alot of good things about him..He mapped my friends car reallyyy good... I am running 20b and my tuner is TIM Rx Motors...but if I ever need something doing and Jaydee is arround and he is confident enough to do it,I would give him a chance big time....
best of luck with your development
6 of one and half a dozen of the other
Quote from: rbs14a;7108516 of one and half a dozen of the other
:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused
:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin
Quote from: rbs14a;7108516 of one and half a dozen of the other
Quote from: lee mills;710853:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused:xconfused
come one lee work it out...
Quote from: rbs14a;710859come one lee work it out...
Try not to engage my brain at the weekend:Giggle it takes enough of a battering during the week:Thumbsup!
big thanks jaydee :D ran 10.8 1/4 mile 123mph at 1.4 bar with slipping clutch top end of 3rd going to 4th runninga stock dif and box just braced
as i said before he is the :god in my book thanks jas
Quote from: scratchies;712201big thanks jaydee :D ran 10.8 1/4 mile 123mph at 1.4 bar with slipping clutch top end of 3rd going to 4th runninga stock dif and box just braced
as i said before he is the :god in my book thanks jas
Great time Stu:driving Any vids
will upload soon on fduk
Quote from: lee mills;712203Great time Stu:driving Any vids
vids http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPNHTyjidaI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPNHTyjidaI)