Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: lotuscorsa on August 10, 2010, 12:38:31 PM

Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: lotuscorsa on August 10, 2010, 12:38:31 PM
Has anyone here got there rx7 down as a 1.3 on there logbook.
If so how did you prove to dvla.
Any help please.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: yehreally on August 10, 2010, 12:55:12 PM
2 x 854cc ?
 
DVLA.....good luck, even if they do....insurance=unlikely depending on company...
 
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65042&highlight=capacity
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: BlitzBoy on August 10, 2010, 01:47:25 PM
2x654cc

yip good luck as they seemed to have closed the loophole
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: SiH on August 10, 2010, 03:49:45 PM
Yup, I know some places are still jsut letting them through, but mine came in about 3 years ago and the loophole had been closed by then.
All it really saves you is 80 quid a year or whatever on tax, no other advantage. Insurance companies don\'t care what it is, it\'s done by groupings and other risk factors.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: peterwolds on August 10, 2010, 03:59:27 PM
on my 2nd RX7 both logged 1.3 didnt change when i transferred personal plate over
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: RobMatthews on August 10, 2010, 07:42:48 PM
i have it written on an import cert of my track car(not registered)would that mean anything to the dvla?
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: trotter on August 11, 2010, 01:53:40 PM
is all down to when / how it was imported. If it was registered as a 1.3 then all well and good, if not then you\'re stuck.

Some people have had it changed retrospectively when changing plates, others havn\'t - i got a whole new logbook and it stayed the same!

End result though, if it\'s registered as a 2.6 then you\'re stuck i\'m afriad, DVLA will not budge on this issue.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: m4drx on August 15, 2010, 02:35:57 AM
they wont but there are still cars being imported and registered as 1300 along with rx8s
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Zee on August 16, 2010, 10:35:59 AM
I\'m going to try this next week.
New shell registered as a 2.6, engine from my old car (which was registered as a 1.3).

Therefore the engine in the new car is a 1.3, I\'ll send them my old log book as proof, see what they say.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: jackaleks on August 16, 2010, 11:07:20 AM
Quote from: Zee;711014see what they say.

i\'d go with "bugger off" :p
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Kevin on August 16, 2010, 11:14:39 AM
Quote from: Zee;711014see what they say.

Id go with probably lots of laughing down the end of the phone line, followed by a hanging up dial tone.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Zee on August 16, 2010, 11:23:05 AM
Surely with a valid v5 document they cannot refute it?
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: slater1982 on August 29, 2010, 07:10:07 AM
i just tried to get mine done last month, and the dvla very helpfully ( i thought anyways) provided me with copies of the original japanese registration doc, a translation of this and the import certificate. then they included the nice covering letter that says they now have an agreement with honcho\'s at mazdauk, that "the displacement in this case is not the actual capacity of 2 x 654 cc, but is intended to mean swept area of 2 x 654 x 2"  so we now should no longer get 1.3s on the logbook.
Not a happy chappy!!
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: aj47coupe on September 17, 2010, 12:32:29 PM
To get all scientific...
 
The reason why they are registered as 2.6\'s nowadays is not because of the power output, but because of the way the engine turns more efficientl than a satandard one.
 
In a standard cumbustion engine, each piston has to move up and down twice (1. Suck, Squeeze, 2. Bang, Blow). Whereas in a rotary this is not required, the same cylinder does the same process with 1 full turn of the rotor.
 
To put it another way...my wifes 1.4 litre polo is infact a 700cc but because the cylinder moves up and down twice, it is calcuated at 1400cc.
 
This information came from may websites I have looked at about this andthis seems to be the best reasons as to why you pay for a 2.6 lump.
 
But as the rest of you have said, it makes no difference to your insurance.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: jpc on October 12, 2010, 01:02:55 PM
I\'ve got my 13B-MSP conversion of an MX5 recently registered as a 1.3L.

The garage doing the conversion provided a receipt on headed paper saying they have fitted a 1.3L engine to my car, engine number xxxxxx.  I asked them not to mention the fact that it was a rotary although the header paper made it clear that the garage was a rotary specialist.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Jono FD3 on October 12, 2010, 01:39:26 PM
Quote from: aj47coupe;716835To get all scientific...
 
The reason why they are registered as 2.6\'s nowadays is not because of the power output, but because of the way the engine turns more efficientl than a satandard one.
 
In a standard cumbustion engine, each piston has to move up and down twice (1. Suck, Squeeze, 2. Bang, Blow). Whereas in a rotary this is not required, the same cylinder does the same process with 1 full turn of the rotor.
 
To put it another way...my wifes 1.4 litre polo is infact a 700cc but because the cylinder moves up and down twice, it is calcuated at 1400cc.

An over complicated way of explaining it!!
Basicaly a piston engine is a 4 stroke using valves to controle the intake & exhaust, as everyone knows this means the piston moves 4 times to 1. draw fuel mix in 2. compress mix 3. ignite & burn fuel & 4.get rid of gasses. where as the rotary works on good old 2 stroke technologey using ports that the apex seals expose & close as they pass.. basicaly making the rotary a 2 stroke engine.

J
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on October 12, 2010, 08:58:22 PM
I read an exact same thread about this on ausrotary, goes on for a few pages, but from what I can remember  from a post by rice racing is that the rotary actually works out at an equivalent to a 3.9 litre v6. If I get time I will post the link to it. Saves a lot if discussion and confusion from me trying to explain it.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on October 12, 2010, 10:05:40 PM
Here read this,
http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33795

Even the first page is intense reading. Explains a lot.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: pigeon on October 15, 2010, 06:08:50 PM
I thought it was done on swept volume. So basically with one revolution of the engine the front rotor will fire on two of its chambers and the back rotor will fire on two of its chambers. So 650x2 for the front + 650x2 for the rear = 2600.
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Brett on October 15, 2010, 07:15:24 PM
Wonder where you stand if you are doing an engine swap?
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: PGiljevic on October 16, 2010, 12:42:44 AM
http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=158905&hilit=1080+wankel

This is a much better thread ^

In summary if you hate reading

If you look at a 13B with its 654cc per Individual chamber capacity (thus 1308cc) you can see it aspirates this ONCE every single revolution thus you can compare the 13B to a 2 stroke if you must do so on an equivalence basis (but remember you are not counting the other 2/3rd\'s of the combustion faces!

Now if you compare it to the much more common 4 stroke engine you can see that 2 faces ONLY are being counted in the engine and thus it has aspirated a total of 2616cc over 720 degree\'s of crank shaft rotation....... nice little bit of info there but it still misses a whole 1/3rd of the engine!

Finally the ONLY TRUE way to look at a Wankel Rotary is to view it in its own cycle! (and not comparing it to something that it is NOT!) this is only over 1080 degree\'s of crank shaft rotation, where ALL of the working faces can be accounted for (just as when you do a compression test to see if the poor little donk is healthy or not) (http://www.ausrotary.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif) For it is only when the entire engine has complete one full cycle of work can it thus be rated, be that as functional or in its true capacity sense. You will then see that the humble 13B is indeed 654cc x 3 working faces x number of rotors ! = 3924cc.

Equivalence capacity to time scale (revolutions) for 13B engine, has one power pulse per 360 degree\'s per rotor
1308cc 360degree\'s (2 stroke)
2616cc 720 degree\'s (4 stroke)
3924cc 1080 degree\'s (Wankel Rotary)
Title: is the rx7 engine a 1.3 or not
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on October 16, 2010, 06:56:07 PM
Quote from: RICE RACING;721430http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=158905&hilit=1080+wankel
 
This is a much better thread ^
 
In summary if you hate reading
 
If you look at a 13B with its 654cc per Individual chamber capacity (thus 1308cc) you can see it aspirates this ONCE every single revolution thus you can compare the 13B to a 2 stroke if you must do so on an equivalence basis (but remember you are not counting the other 2/3rd\'s of the combustion faces!
 
Now if you compare it to the much more common 4 stroke engine you can see that 2 faces ONLY are being counted in the engine and thus it has aspirated a total of 2616cc over 720 degree\'s of crank shaft rotation....... nice little bit of info there but it still misses a whole 1/3rd of the engine!
 
Finally the ONLY TRUE way to look at a Wankel Rotary is to view it in its own cycle! (and not comparing it to something that it is NOT!) this is only over 1080 degree\'s of crank shaft rotation, where ALL of the working faces can be accounted for (just as when you do a compression test to see if the poor little donk is healthy or not) (http://www.ausrotary.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif) For it is only when the entire engine has complete one full cycle of work can it thus be rated, be that as functional or in its true capacity sense. You will then see that the humble 13B is indeed 654cc x 3 working faces x number of rotors ! = 3924cc.
 
Equivalence capacity to time scale (revolutions) for 13B engine, has one power pulse per 360 degree\'s per rotor
1308cc 360degree\'s (2 stroke)
2616cc 720 degree\'s (4 stroke)
3924cc 1080 degree\'s (Wankel Rotary)
Thanks Rice i will have a read through the link, very intersting stuff, enjoy understanding these engines, the more information the better. Some of the stuff is confusing to me but when i sit and concentrate on technical aspects like this i understand it eventually.
 
I like to tell people that my FD is a 1.3 to see the shock when they ask the HP the engine can produce.
 
But if we are honest it just isnt:Giggle