Over the last few weeks we have seen one of the three Rotary clubs moot a possible destabilisation of Rotorstock 7, our Rotary community’s Showcase European main event which maybe possibly be the last of its type as unbeknown to many a review is taken each year as to the direction of the event and also if it is to continue at all.
I have spoken to many people over the last few weeks from all three clubs to gain more of an up toi date insight into “our” Rotary community.
One of the most striking things has been to find that people don’t realise that MRC not only originated Rotorstock but also that Rotorstock is not a Santa Pod event it is actually an MRC event that MRC’s stages to show the Japanese car community the wonderful Rotary cars that we have within our Rotary community for not only looks but also performance.
Going right back to the start of Mazdarotaryclub Glenn, who was co-founder of MRC and myself wanted a Sevenstock style event, but one that moved on some sort of race track.
I had always said that MRC would be a members club and so in spite of the fact that both of us would have liked RS1 at a race track the members voted overwhelmingly for a Drag Strip and so a Drag Strip it was.
As many of you know Shakespeare County Raceway was approached and it became evident that so we could play and race our Rotaries we would need it to be supported by other Jap clubs because our community collectively simply does not have enough cars to hold a standalone event, just for us.
Very quickly we also knew that as a small club we needed money (the root of all evil) but more of that later.
The easiest way and only way for a small club like MRC to support such a large style event was to get traders on board and so we did, however not only to support Rotorstock but also to help fund things that our members wanted to do with their cars, like track days, free days out, discounted tickets where possible and dyno days etc.
It is at this point I will tell you that from talking to people this is where our biggest problems lies and why aparently people decided to try and instigate a split through our community at Rotorstock 7.
Here are the accusations in bullet point order.
1. Rotorstock and Mazdarotary club are two different things.
2. Clive and Lisa must get money out of Rotorstock
3. Clive and Lisa must get money out of Mazdarotary club
4. Clive uses Mazdarotary club to get all his business for his company.
5. Our moderation is all wrong because we don’t let guests carry out group buys.
6. Too many rules within MRC
Let’s start with point 6 as it started this latest episode:-
When Mazdarotary club formed, Glenn and I set NO rules as to what was allowed and not allowed and we found our members formed a forum that had no porn or swearing, in other words MRC members made their own rules and so thereafter we try and enforce these rules
The upside is people can view MRC all over the world without fear of getting the sack due to porn or horrible images that can be found elsewhere should anyone wishes.
It is important that the club keeps a certain income level or it would not be able to assist its members or fund Rotorstock, however if a full club member wishes to carry out a one off sale through a group buy then this is O/K, however if this becomes a source of income because the person wants to carry out more group buys then they would need to become at least a private trader
It was put to me that if you were only sounding things out then “what’s the harm”? The harm is that then 5, 10, 15 companies could join up and see what they can sell then it takes no working out that the traders who pay would soon disappear leaving no funds to either help full members or the further Rotary community here and around the world as there would end up being no money even to operate the forum.
I am pleased to say that I have spoken with one of the people who became so upset about the above that he wanted a separate stand at Rotorstock, and he can now see why MRC needs money from traders, however I am sadly unable to talk to each and every one of you on the phone to explain MRC’s position.
Now to point 1:-
Rotorstock.com is owned by Mazdarotaryclub and we redirect this to Santa Pod’s website.
When I sat at the table to discuss RS3 going to Santa Pod I was asked what the club wanted financially and I told them that we were not looking for money as this had always been about getting our event out there and not about money, we just wanted them to operate the event on our behalf and whatever they make is Santa Pods’.
The club nor I have ever received any monies from Rotorstock and never will; indeed Mazdarotaryclub has to book the Rotary stand like any other club.
We have so far spent out £1800 to secure the stand for the Rotary community for RS7 and with the extra ticket discounts we give to our members we expect to lose around £600 from the club’s funds which is why we need traders to supplement Rotorstock and other things that Mazdarotaryclub funds for its members.
I will now deal with the serious allegations in numbers 2, 3 and 4
Mazdarotaryclub is probably in a unique position in that it is a car club that has been investigated for any potential wrong doings by a government agency!
Two years ago Gary Marks complained officially to the Trading Standards Agency and a four week investigation took place about anything and everything about me, my company and the club with the accusation that I was gleaning monies from the club in many different ways.
I went through four weeks of not being even able to tell even our moderators that this was happening as they found out why and how MRC was constructed, what happened with money etc, even sending our websites away to some government department for checking.
While other company’s and people not connected with MRC warned me that the Trading Standards Agency always find something to at least comment about and at least make recommendations on something, just to exert themselves
They ended their inquiry into any irregularities with NO action being taken anywhere so the next time false accusations are made anywhere please contact Glenn Jermy, who is the Principle Trading Standards Officer at Kent’s West Malling office, in other words you don’t even need to take my word for it that the things being said are not only untrue, deeply offensive to myself and Lisa but also libellous.
With all this now said going back to the top, we have never had any segregation at any previous Rotorstock events, so let’s have a good happy potentially last Rotorstock and Showcase our great cars with our wonderful engines together.
I am pleased to say that FDUK have not booked a stand after a poll was carried out asking its members where it wanted to park.
The biggest reason for NO segregation from Rotorstock 1 onwards has always been that a lot of people are in more than one Rotary Club and to make them choose one over the other in my eyes is just plain wrong.
Nice post Clive :)
Just my personal opinion... I have seen moderators jump on guests in the past.
I think this alienates guests and stops them from joining.
Moderators are meant to be fair and unbias, however this can\'t be said for all the moderators on here.
Good luck with RS7.
Quote from: Rex_FTW;708603Nice post Clive :)
Just my personal opinion... I have seen moderators jump on guests in the past.
I think this alienates guests and stops them from joining.
Moderators are meant to be fair and unbias, however this can\'t be said for all the moderators on here.
Good luck with RS7.
sorry dont agree about mods as they act in agreement with the others (behind the scenes) before making judgements except if its likely to cause a quick bun fight then they act instantly & post in the mods section for discusion.some guests behave in an inflamatory way presumably in some cases to cause an argument.
agree nice post from clive.
My experience of this forum has been nothing but 1st class. I am a member of around 10-15 different forums and this one is by far the most helpful and inviting with all members whether they be established or newbies being treated with the same respect.
No question i ever asked was answered by a \'here we go again\', or use the search option or whatever it may be. This forum has been a great source of information thoroughout the 5/6 years i\'ve been a user/member and guest.
Hoping to come back into the rotary world very shortly.
Clive/Lisa and all the mods keep up the good work :mmmm
Leggy
Quote from: peterwolds;708606sorry dont agree about mods as they act in agreement with the others (behind the scenes) before making judgements except if its likely to cause a quick bun fight then they act instantly & post in the mods section for discusion.some guests behave in an inflamatory way presumably in some cases to cause an argument.
agree nice post from clive.
Fair enough if that\'s your opinion.
I never said all moderators.. as some act fairly in all cases.
However there are some that do not.
Just wanted to clear that point up.
Quote from: Rex_FTW;708613.
Just wanted to clear that point up.
No worries because we actually need feed back to help us get it right as well because all we end up with is untrue Chinese whispers that I have addressed above otherwise ,
None of us will ever get it right all the time and with moderation many times these are dealt on an individual basis, collectively.
I will say that in cases where trading is involved Kevin, our Chairman ultimately handles these, as in many cases it would be unethical for me to be involved,
Great post and read was that... Nice to know a little more of the history behind RS and MRC....:Thumbs-up
Personally, I opted / voted for one big rotary stand as IMO that\'s what it\'s all about! :D
Looking forward to the viewing spectacle too! Should be amazing! :cheers :burnout
Hi Clive
There are a number of members of FDUK that are not members of MRC. In some cases are suspended or banned I believe? Therefore unable to use the shop?
Can you tell me the best way to go about these guys getting tickets and stand passes?
I\'ll then pass this info on
Cheers
Hello Mark,
Thankyou for offering to relay info back to FDUK.
You will find that anyone can access the on-line shop above without even being registered on MRC,
But to try and help even more, if you copy the link below it will take anyone straight into the shop for Rotorstock tickets
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/shop2/shopping_cart.php
Thats great, thanks for clarification Clive, i\'ll pass the info on to our members :Thumbsup!
Quote from: clive;708583I will now deal with the serious allegations in numbers 2, 3 and 4
Mazdarotaryclub is probably in a unique position in that it is a car club that has been investigated for any potential wrong doings by a government agency!
Two years ago Gary Marks complained officially to the Trading Standards Agency and a four week investigation took place about anything and everything about me, my company and the club with the accusation that I was gleaning monies from the club in many different ways.
I went through four weeks of not being even able to tell even our moderators that this was happening as they found out why and how MRC was constructed, what happened with money etc, even sending our websites away to some government department for checking.
While other company’s and people not connected with MRC warned me that the Trading Standards Agency always find something to at least comment about and at least make recommendations on something, just to exert themselves
They ended their inquiry into any irregularities with NO action being taken anywhere so the next time false accusations are made anywhere please contact Glenn Jermy, who is the Principle Trading Standards Officer at Kent’s West Malling office, in other words you don’t even need to take my word for it that the things being said are not only untrue, deeply offensive to myself and Lisa but also libellous.
With all this now said going back to the top, we have never had any segregation at any previous Rotorstock events, so let’s have a good happy potentially last Rotorstock and Showcase our great cars with our wonderful engines together.
I just dont know how you put up with it and find the motivation to carry on with it all Clive.
That above, is horrendous!
I totally agree with one big Rotary stand. The more cars the better (saves walking so far!).
On a side note Clive, How big is the stand this year? as last year it was as you know packed full. I was one of the lucky ones that managed to get parked at one end so could move the barrier to get the car out and onto the track. If there had been another stand next to ours I\'d have been stuck and got no strip time. Im just trying to think ahead as this year there may be more people wanting to be in and out.
Ade
I\'m with Ade on this, are you going to make sure cars can get out? I tend to get there early but leave mid afternoon so I don\'t want to have to wait until others go before I can go?
Maybe a bit of marshalling? :) But looking forward to this as I missed last year!
I suggested a revised layout this year that will give a bigger stand, I have seen the map and asked for a couple of alterations.
Hopefully I will have the Rotorstock map back to post up tomorrow.
Quote from: Dan Norton;708669I just dont know how you put up with it and find the motivation to carry on with it all Clive.
That above, is horrendous!
OJ is to blame !
After the first Rotorstock I did not have any desire to hold organise another, then OJ wrote me an e-mail !
I had worked with the promoter of the track for 8 months so that Rotorstock would be the first meeting in Europe to stage proper "head to head" Drag Racing for Japanese cars and had done my best to get all the fastest together for their first Championship.
Come race day the promoter backed out, afraid that he may lose his race license if he ran the "race" meeting, so MRC did !!.
We lined the cars up and held our own eliminations but without a mike the crowd got ugly as they did not know what was going on plus among other things I even had three guys who wanted to fight me because they could not run their Volvo at a Jap only meet, we even had them block the entrance till the promoter paid them off.
After having three days of crap at the track I then came home to find people moaning and groaning selfishly that they were not catered for personally, indeed you will even find tonight on FDUK that people still use Rotorstock to grind the Axe for their own personal agendas.
NO I did not want another Rotorstock !Then two or three weeks later OJ (Archbish) wrote a long e-mail explaining that I had missed something crutial.
Where I had spent 3 days dealing with problem after problem to make sure Rotorstock could function and only seen crap, the bit I missed was lots and lots of people really really enjoying Rotorstock, and so here we are 6 years on going into another Rotorstock !
At last years Rotorstock I thanked OJ profusely for the last 6 years of pain, suffering and general crap that Lisa and myself have endured to try and bring the Rotary community the best event outside of Aus, NZ and Japan !!
It is far too simple for some that we have put on this event to make people happy, no hidden agendas, no making money, no nothing, just to see people going home having enjoyed Rotorstock was enough.
I think it is almost inevitable that some people will moan, and RS1 was a learning curve for all involved.
With Pod the facilities are in place to make sure some of the "old" issues are gone :wiggle
This year will be the seventh one and i think that in itself is a huge accomplishment for all the people behind the scenes :cheers
All this togetherness talk is great and all, but from what I understand - was there not clear indifferrence to allowing hybrid Rotary vehicles to participate a few years back?
Myself personally having been around the rotary scene in NZ/OZ hybrids were as part of the scene as any other factory powered vehicle - it was the engine that bought us all together - the noise & revs and enjoyment that could transform even a mundane KE30 corolla into something special.
I would be interested to know your personal opinion of this because there has clearly been a sea change as hybrids are now allowed to run - so why were they previously banned? Have you now seen the light or have you been forced to include them simply by weight of public opinion?
Now I now I am relatively new to all this, and have not been directly affected by it, but there is still bad feeling about it years later and from the simple facts gathered I also think that was unjust.
*blush* ummmm, yeah, sorry about that!! *grin*
personally, I\'ve massively enjoyed the rotorstocks I\'ve been to. I\'ve enjoyed the company of all rotary clubs, and am pleased that I\'ve been able to catch up with friends and make new mates in all the clubs that are rotorised. I am well aware of the differences that exist, and choose to take no part - I work long weeks, in a reasonably high pressure environment, and this is, has always been, and will always be a source of relaxation and enjoyment.
Clive - I do personally hope the various rotorstocks have been worth your time and effort, and that you have appreciated the enjoyment that those who have attended have experienced. If you haven\'t, then I absolutely apologise for that email!! *grin*
irrespective of politics, this is a great weekend, and I\'m gutted I won\'t be attending this year! (esp as the 1st gen managed 140mph on a private road recently - and could have kept going. The car is way faster than the driver...!!)
((I sincerely hope this post is not taken out of context by anyone - I\'ve always been on all forums as a force for good, and will take exception with anyone that treats it otherwise.))
option 3 makes interesting reading
MRC arrange organise track days this year they are doing four as I\'m aware
They also give the people who track part £20 back so if you do two track days you have already made £10 from the club if you do all of them your made £50, Also you get discount on other events you may attend.
So to me to accuse them of making money out of the club well beggers belief
Also I meet Clive at Cadwell park earlier in the year and he spent most of his valuable track time fixing other peoples cars.
Also he advised me against certain mods,(for the car) even though I would have got them from him.
he is also very helpful to people like me,who don\'t know a lot and can/has spent many a phone call helping people out. Not a lot of people would do that day after day.
I personally think he is a top man and trust him at his word
keep up the good work Clive
Paul
Hybrids were never ever banned from Rotorstock,
3 years ago Santa Pod wanted Japanese cars only on the strip so they had something to promote and a Fiat with a Jap engine was not very promotable.
It was made very clear that rotary hybrids were never banned as they were welcome to park on the Rotary stand and be part of the event in every other way, sadly for Santa Pod this did not bring in extra cars so this was relaxed for the following year.
You say you are new, but I see from your post that you have come to this thread quite willing to potentially cause trouble because you have had your mind made up by detractors of Rotorstock and MRC already, some of who were banned for either threatening or inciting physical violence, which is just as unacceptable here on MRC as it is in any other community.
I dont think we can throw me into the \'threatening/inciting violence\' squad because that is not what this is about - I know of no such actions, and dont care to. I am engaging in a discussion and have put forward a point of view that I have encountered - and to date it has been singled sided, but I am certainly not closed minded.
If I have my wires crossed and it was solely a Santapod descision to not allow the hybrids and nothing to do with MRC then I aplologise - I stand by the statement that the ruling was unjust and that a rotary hybrid has an equal standing amongst the community as that is what I think no matter who made it.
If this is the case, can I satisfy my curiosity how the various splits and aggreivance come about from another point of view?
If I go to Jap Show, I know I cant race my Audi. If I go to GTi international I realise that its not for racing my RX7, but going to Rotorstock indicates to me that it is about Rotaries - a fairly simple criteria. Why was the MRC not allowed to excercise their view over Santapod to force them to allow rotors no matter what body they were in?
QuoteIf I go to Jap Show, I know I cant race my Audi. If I go to GTi international I realise that its not for racing my RX7, but going to Rotorstock indicates to me that it is about Rotaries - a fairly simple criteria. Why was the MRC not allowed to excercise their view over Santapod to force them to allow rotors no matter what body they were in?
The answer is quite simple
Santa Pod made a commercial decision they wanted a Jap only event for marketing purposes from the outset because quote "we have countless events through the year hybrids can run at" as track operator and the company taking the monetary hit if the event doesn\'t make money its was there call for further clarification and confirmation of this point i\'d recommend contacting Rick at Santa Pod. As it gets a bit tiresome stating the same thing year after year when a few people don\'t seem to be able to accept what there being told.
Quote from: clive;708616No worries because we actually need feed back to help us get it right as well because all we end up with is untrue Chinese whispers that I have addressed above otherwise ,
None of us will ever get it right all the time and with moderation many times these are dealt on an individual basis, collectively.
I will say that in cases where trading is involved Kevin, our Chairman ultimately handles these, as in many cases it would be unethical for me to be involved,
No problem.
I am not really talking about the trading side. More the actions of some moderators. They can alienate the success of your club because ultimately, to members or guests looking to become members, moderators are a reflection of the culture and characteristics of the club.
If my points are taking on board, I will be impressed. I may even then join up and become a member. It\'s not that I don\'t want to, but some moderators actions are just shocking and affecting the club negatively.
You should see the RX8 owners club for moderators
some are a nightmare and have caused quite a bit of heated debate.
Paul
Quote from: Zarterone;708947You should see the RX8 owners club for moderators
some are a nightmare and have caused quite a bit of heated debate.
Paul
Moderators are meant to be and should be impartial. If they can\'t be they should not be moderators.
I think that this is a good thing, this thread....I think
First off, I firmly belive in the non-segregation of rotaries at Rotorstock. To an extent I think that MRC and Clive and Lisa specifically have put the time effort and aggravation into making it what it is and therefore should have the ultimate decision on the format it takes. Because they\'ve earned the right....
Also, I believe a club is only strong if it listens to the needs and desires of its members, and the show will only continue to be feasible if it fulfills a niche desire that exists amongst the rotary/Japanese car community. Both of these mean that a certain amount of flexibility is necessary, and a certain amount of evolving the show to meet the desires of what it\'s member snad attendees require. Which is not the same as kowtowing to the aggressive desires and personal agendas of a minority with an axe to grind.
Personally, as a loyal member of two clubs I have no interest in having my loyalty split between them by the agendas of anyone else. When the hobby I love becomes leverage for others to flex their metaphorical muscles, then it\'s time they grew up or found another playground. With this in mind, I was very pleased that the recent poll on FDUK showed that the members there would prefer a non-segragated stand and hopefully implies the majority are of a like mind to myself.
The ultimate irony being that the Pod had clearly printed the tickets long since with the "MRC, FDUK and RX-8OC" legend all merged into one massive stand, and had no intention of re-printing them even if FDUK decided to insist on separate stand space anyway....maing the entire thing rather farcical strom in a teacup. Especially since I noticed that only two of all the people who said "I\'m not going unless I\'m not on an MRC stand" actually had the courage of their convictions to state why they felt that way about it ;)
Quote from: Rex_FTW;708946No problem.
I am not really talking about the trading side. More the actions of some moderators. They can alienate the success of your club because ultimately, to members or guests looking to become members, moderators are a reflection of the culture and characteristics of the club.
If my points are taking on board, I will be impressed. I may even then join up and become a member. It\'s not that I don\'t want to, but some moderators actions are just shocking and affecting the club negatively.
As you are a guest you have no PM rights but it would appear you are harboring some personal issues, I would like to know privately what these issues are please.
Please would you give me a call either on
07957203073 (please leave a message and I will get back to)
p.s. won\'t be around for a while now as I\'m off to Mallory to have some fun in my own Rotary with other club members, which is one of the reasons why the club was formed in the first place, to enhance the passion for our cars, not bickering on forums.
Quote from: Rex_FTW;708954Moderators are meant to be and should be impartial. If they can\'t be they should not be moderators.
Moderators are also human and volunteers, if you have a particular grievance please let us know, alluding to an issue doesn\'t help: clear suggestions and examples will always be welcomed (even if not nessicarily liked at the time)
I have not been a member here for long but since being one have found it a fantastic place to meet other rotary owners and fans who are full of great advice and always willing to help as with other rotary sites people are generaly helpul thru there love of the rotary powered car.
GREAT WORK TO ALL WHO RUN THE SITE !
On the other hand there seems to be alot of politics and accusations directed at the people that run the club and that realy ##### me off the accounts for the club are availible to veiw in the members section and where not talking a great deal of money involved certinly not enough to compensate any one for the work and s##t that they would have to put up with, IE there is no golden egg to be had here.
I think some pepole need to accept the fact that this club is run by volinters who give up their time and lives because they love all things rotary I bet when you where kids your mum\'s/dad\'s didn\'t have a go at the cub, scout or brownie leaders for profitering.
As for inter club fighting and arguing just grow up and get over it at the end of the day we all like rotarys thats why we join these clubs, I think that all members of all clubs and groups should should think of them selfs as equal as its not the car but the engine that is common to all i.e it doesn\'t mater what body new or old that the engine sits in as long as its a rotary then its all good.
Well thats enough of a rant I hope I haven\'t upset anyone or over steped the mark but this sort of stuff really starts me off, I am hopeing to make it to RS this year if work permits and looking forward to it.
And once again well done to all that give their time to run this club as without them there would be no club
Cheers
:InLove
Quote from: festa;709022Well thats enough of a rant I hope I haven\'t upset anyone or over steped the mark but this sort of stuff really starts me off, I am hopeing to make it to RS this year if work permits and looking forward to it.
Cheers
Nobody can get upset with an excellent post like this :Thumbs-up
Really hope you can get to see all these cars together at R7 then you can see what a spectacle all our great cars make together,
Between everybody who attends across the three clubs, collectively they put on the best Rotary event in Europe that is even more varied than its counterpart in California called Sevenstock because we have so many more modded Rotarys turn up :InLove.
I must agree with you Clive you and lisa need a medal,:Thumbsup!:Thumbsup! hope R7 goes well for you this year, sorry i will not be attending but you know the reasons why:2Rolleyes
E:VikingV
Clive is a top bloak in the rotary world,as he went out of his way last year in September to fit New Coils & Leads to my RX-8 :D
He was also spot on,in saying I need a New Engine Mount:)& doesn\'t know it yet,but I need his help in getting a New Engine Mount for the Drivers Side :driving
Anyway I am really looking forward to Rotorstock 7 this year :D
wow makes for interesting reading .nice to see a bit of openess from mrc never new this was going on but i dont think you\'ll ever make everyone happy but amazed for still doing it reguardless clive and lisa .
i feel quiet bad for staying on the side lines as a guest now >:( let me know when memeber ship is up for renewal ill be gladly giving this year .
i don\'t think splitting up the show is a good thing were rightly here for the same reason deep down .... ( throphys ) yes nik lol
on another note i think the mods do an excellent job one forum that i dont see porn and kids having a pop its a pleasure to log on and not be either concerned about what the misses sees as she randomly strolls into the dinning room or that timmys got a "mate" whos car would woop all of ours . good work keep it going
One of the real shames is that it\'s not possible to park you car on two stands and it\'s nice that a couple of times a year we can all park up together. But having said that I wouldn\'t want to see just one rotary stand at all shows as it\'s nice for each club to have it\'s own stand and their own identity and if we were to always be together on the same stand I feel we\'d loss that. What would be nice is if there was someway that the stands could be close together maybe opposite each other but I guess that\'d be out of the clubs hands and down to the show organizers.