Not rotary related, Someone i did some work for, wrote me a cheque yesterday, then texed today to say she had to cancel it today, not a great amount, but a bit peed off about it, any way of forcing it to be paid? or any advice please ? cheers Bob
If she\'s cancelled the cheque there is nothing you can do to get it paid. If you decide to take action against her though it can be used as evidence that she owed you that money.
I would still pay it in - firstly in case she\'s lying and she hasn\'t cancelled it (there\'s usually a charge for her - you won\'t incur any costs) and secondly you then have evidence that it was cancelled as the cheque will be returned to you with \'payment countermanded by order of drawer\' stamped on it, which again may help any future claim.
I hope that helps.
Good advise, it costs a fair bit to cancel a cheque. Pay it in buddy.
Paid in! Thanks for advice, she paid me part cash and the last part with the cheque, i have done a lot of work for her, when it came to pay the bill, she changed into a different person (almost) and not nice! and became spitefull :2eek i think she gave me the cheque to get me out of the house with the intention of cancelling the cheque when i had left! now i don\'t mind waiting for a while if it helps someone through a bad patch, and understand people have difficulties finding cash, but i would listen and already given her more time to pay, and i don\'t like getting nasty, this however has really peed me off! so next question= if the cheque is sent back to me. can i pay it in again? and again? so that she gets so fed up with the fees that she hopefully pays it? or is that wishfull thinking, Any advice gratefully recieved!
Thanks Bob
you wont get the cheque back. she will get one set of fees and thats it...u got to try and get the money all over again
i put a cheque that bounced into hsbc from a guy who bought both my cars off me for 1100 quid. they charged me 25 quid!!!! different banks different charges. you should enquire. story goes i didnt let the cars go. In this instance the cheque was credited so it looked like i had the cash then the next day it bounced so there was a window were i would have let the cars go. ten years on id like to think the system has changed but...?
No bank should charge you for a cheque you pay in that gets returned - unless it then takes you overdrawn or something.
And yes the clearing system has changed but it is still credited to your account immediately, just now once it\'s cleared it\'s guaranteed paid - which it wasn\'t before. 6,4,2 now means you get interest from day 2, you can draw against it after day 4 and guaranteed paid after day 6. See here (http://www.chequeandcredit.co.uk/246/)
You should always get a returned cheque sent back to you. If it\'s returned for lack of funds then if it says \'refer to drawer please represent\' that means you should try paying it in again. You can still try if it\'s just \'refer to drawer\' but probably not much hope. You shouldn\'t be able to pay a cancelled cheque back in again.
Blimey it\'s a while since I\'ve had to deal with cheque queries - I\'m normally being moaned at because someone\'s Faster Payments aren\'t working or something. :chat
FYI, cheques can \'bounce\'/be cancelled/be withdrawn for a very long period after they have been paid in - something ridiculous like 6 months! Another reason not to use them.
My other half used to work in an anti money laundering department, you learn some very eye opening facts about the handling of money, and what people do to abuse some of the nuances in different payment methods.
I for one would never take a cheque or banker\'s draft for any sum of money that was remotely significant.
Nice one on paying it in - sounds like the rest might be a case for the small claims court :( Keep a record of all correspondence, both verbal and written.
You sure? I know card payments can be pulled back up to 6 months later but i don\'t think it works for cheques. My Mrs is a NatWest manager and she says it\'s 10 working days but as you say always better to take a transfer.
Thanks for replies all. i am expecting a letter from her today, so will see. (probably disputing the bill from the day before!) however it occurred to me that i gave her a receipt, based on what i thought was full payment of the full amount, but now it seems the amount paid by cheque would make that receipt= =invalid/false/deceptive/inaccurate/wrong. or some other word that sums up the situation more accurately! (in legal terms) untill i receive payment in full! any further thoughts please guys,
Many thanks Bob
Bob, it\'s always worth threatening to go to the plod with an accusation of obtaining goods / services by deception. I know the police are an absolute waste of time unless you\'ve parked slightly out of line or done 31mph in a 30 mph area but it\'s worth a try.
You\'ve given a receipt but after she\'s given you a cheque so don\'t worry about that,why not see if you can sell the debt to someone not so nice or as the last resort is to undo the work you\'ve done........could be the most fun :Giggle
Quote from: SiH;708599FYI, cheques can \'bounce\'/be cancelled/be withdrawn for a very long period after they have been paid in - something ridiculous like 6 months! Another reason not to use them..
That used to be the case because, as I said above, cleared didn\'t mean paid. But not anymore, under 6,4,2 after the 6th day it\'s guranteed paid and cannot be returned for any reason. Still a long time - much eaiser to do an instant transfer these days (when they work properly!).
Quote from: SiH;708599My other half used to work in an anti money laundering department, you learn some very eye opening facts about the handling of money, and what people do to abuse some of the nuances in different
Yep that\'s what I do - Risk Oversight for Payments Compliance, so Anti-Money Laundering, Counter Terrorist Financing and Sanctions are my specialist areas. I think it\'s really interesting but I don\'t think my other half would agree! :Giggle
Quote from: AMH;708610That used to be the case because, as I said above, cleared didn\'t mean paid. But not anymore, under 6,4,2 after the 6th day it\'s guranteed paid and cannot be returned for any reason. Still a long time - much eaiser to do an instant transfer these days (when they work properly!).
Is that true of international cheques? I though that was one of the favoured cons by the foreign bidders on ebay. Send a cheque for a purchase, the seller pays it in, shows as cleared after 4 or 6 days but the international transfer takes longer than that and once you\'ve sent/shipped the product the money dissappears from your account as the cheque bounces?
Quote from: AMH;708610That used to be the case because, as I said above, cleared didn\'t mean paid. But not anymore, under 6,4,2 after the 6th day it\'s guranteed paid and cannot be returned for any reason. Still a long time - much eaiser to do an instant transfer these days (when they work properly!).
Yep that\'s what I do - Risk Oversight for Payments Compliance, so Anti-Money Laundering, Counter Terrorist Financing and Sanctions are my specialist areas. I think it\'s really interesting but I don\'t think my other half would agree! :Giggle
Yeah, she worked in AML for TUI :) - so basically all sorts of everything, international and domestic, I thought it was really interesting!
Didn\'t know it had changed now - how long ago did this new stuff come in? Handy to know :)
Quote from: sadgoth;708628Is that true of international cheques?
Nope that\'s only for England and Wales clearing - even some Scottish cheques can be different. International cheques can be cleared a variety of ways depending on the currency and Bank it\'s drawn on - they will take longer so you\'re right it\'s a good way of scamming.
Quote from: SiH;708632Didn\'t know it had changed now - how long ago did this new stuff come in? Handy to know :)
November 2007 I think - check out the link I posted above. It was long overdue a change as people never understood that cleared did not mean paid.
i had a case on ebay where someone with a name i couldnt pronounce. bought a pc component off me. left + feedback then did a credit card charge back. the credit card company charged paypal for the chargeback who then charged me. I lost my component, got the cash taken back off me and a charge back charge. it took a few phonecalls and hours to resolve. so beware. not sure on how long after the transaction these things can be done but it is something to be concerned about.
PayPal are a bit of a law unto themselves - plus they are a US Company so UK laws may not apply. I know they are trying to offer protection to people buying over the internet and I would certainly rather use them than give my credit card details. But I have heard all sorts of horror stories where it seems to go very wrong.
So Ann... How much AML can we work into this thread?
I reckon a minimum of 2+2 before moving forwards... :Giggle
Quote from: Brett;708696So Ann... How much AML can we work into this thread?
I reckon a minimum of 2+2 before moving forwards... :Giggle
I know I\'m working on it - but I didn\'t mention it first! :Giggle
Got an assignment for my AML Diploma due on Monday so I\'m a bit AMLed up at the moment. :2Confused
Many thanks for all this information Ann guys.
QuoteBob, it\'s always worth threatening to go to the plod with an accusation of obtaining goods / services by deception. I know the police are an absolute waste of time unless you\'ve parked slightly out of line or done 31mph in a 30 mph area but it\'s worth a try.
You\'ve given a receipt but after she\'s given you a cheque so don\'t worry about that,why not see if you can sell the debt to someone not so nice or as the last resort is to undo the work you\'ve done........could be the most fun,
Thanks Dave, nice one! i am sure that she has no idea about (obtaining goods services by deception! she said she was going to write to me but nothing as yet, Sad situation really to have to think like this, but because she is being so spitefull i am not going to write it off, i did a lot of work plumbing electrical, decorating, etc. all too cheap really, to help her out! :mad: just waiting for the letter or statement from the bank, and then take it from there. will let you know, Thanks again guys Bob
update, i had a letter from my customer today, she says she has cancelled the cheque, and made up all sorts of un-related rubbish to try and justify this, i will probably hear from the bank tomorrow, about the cheque, so reluctantly will have to see what offence she has commited if any, hopefully from C.A.B. something very obvious is that she wrote the letter the day she gave me the cheque :xconfused
cheers Bob
More advise. If you have installed any parts, plumbing or electrical, they are still yours until she has paid, therefore i advise you let her know this via a letter (recorded delivery) and so long as the outstanding monies has been paid by "x" date you will not have to exercise your legal right to take them back by means involving the Police.
I wouldn\'t mess about with this woman.
Send a letter giving her 7 days to pay the outstanding monies. State that you will issue a summons in the county court after 7 days if she refuses to pay.
Include that if you have to issue a summons you will be claiming for the full amount owed plus all costs you incur such as court costs, other legal costs, interest on the money etc etc...
After 7 days, issue a county court summons for the full amount. It\'s cheap to do and will certainly focus her mind and test her resolve.
Thanks Ian, i learnt today, that she paid to stop the cheque so that if i were to keep re presenting it, she does not incurr costs :reallymad The police say it is not a matter for them, it is a Civil matter! sod it!
Do as Ian says take her to county court, its quite easy to do if a small amount of money is in dispute, let the judge decide, bet she will pay up before then to avoid the hassle of court
Yes Blitz, i am going to follow Ian\'s advice, County court it is, Thanks for all replies and help guys, much appreciated:Thumbsup!Bob
Quote from: ro284;709027Thanks Ian, i learnt today, that she paid to stop the cheque so that if i were to keep re presenting it, she does not incurr costs :reallymad The police say it is not a matter for them, it is a Civil matter! sod it!
If it\'s less than £5k then small claims is the way forwards I think.
Quote from: ro284;709040Yes Blitz, i am going to follow Ian\'s advice, County court it is, Thanks for all replies and help guys, much appreciated:Thumbsup!Bob
make sure you send everthing to her via recorded delivery, create a paper trail to back up your case.
Quote from: ro284;709040Yes Blitz, i am going to follow Ian\'s advice, County court it is, Thanks for all replies and help guys, much appreciated:Thumbsup!Bob
No problem.
Has the cheque been returned yet? She\'s obviously dishonest so I\'d want to know that it definately was cancelled before taking it any further.
Quote from: ro284;709027Thanks Ian, i learnt today, that she paid to stop the cheque so that if i were to keep re presenting it, she does not incurr costs :reallymad The police say it is not a matter for them, it is a Civil matter! sod it!
This is typical of the police, nothing but a lazy bunch of b@rstewards (b@rstewards)!!!!
When yoy take this \'lady\' to court don\'t forget that you are entiltled to interest owed on the money (i think it\'s still around 8%), costs incured for the day such as fuel & parking plus the amount of wage you have lost by having to go to court (if you have to appear in person).
You\'ll need to write to the \'lady\' and also keep verified copies plus send everything via recorded mail as proof for the court that you have tried to recover your money in a respectable manner. Personally i\'d sell the debt to a local nutter :Thumbs-up
Dave.
QuoteHas the cheque been returned yet? She\'s obviously dishonest so I\'d want to know that it definately was cancelled before taking it any further.
Thanks Ian AMH. Dave,
Yes the bank sent the cheque, it saye PAYMENT STOPPED on the front the day after i gave her reciept for payment for full amount!:reallymad
cheers guys Bob
Quote from: ro284;709429Thanks Ian AMH. Dave,
Yes the bank sent the cheque, it saye PAYMENT STOPPED on the front the day after i gave her reciept for payment for full amount!:reallymad
cheers guys Bob
It\'s no problem - that is evidence that she owes you the money. You gave her a reciept because she gave you a cheque - unless she can prove that she had a valid reason for cancelling the cheque then she hasn\'t got a leg to stand on.
Hi Bob,
I\'ve been chasing people for work who have deliberately issued cheques they have no intention to honour... the best suggestions so far are:
* County court
* Sell the debt (depending on the amount)
Whatever happens don\'t give up - chances are she\'s a serial offender.
Thanks Brett
QuoteSell the debt (depending on the amount)
I don\'t know anything about this! does this mean someone will pay to buy a refused cheque or something else please?
Bob
Quote from: ro284;709649Thanks Brett
I don\'t know anything about this! does this mean someone will pay to buy a refused cheque or something else please?
Bob
Yes, debt collectors will buy the debt off you. You obviously have to take their fees off the amount owed. Dependant on what evidence you have and details of the debtor will determine their fees. So if you have proof that there is a debt (which you have) and you have full contact details for the person who owes you the money (address, phone numbers etc) then they have a good chance of recovering the money and will charge you less.
They obviously range in quality, a more ruthless one may charge you a bit more but will employ big blokes to go round and put the frighteners on her - obviously I can\'t condone that sort of practice but it might give you a bit of satisfaction. :D
Bit of an update, i am expecting two Bank Transfers! i have never done this before, but understand i have to give my Bank details first, in order for the money to be transfered! Is there any risk to my account using this method, i\'m wary of everything now! Once again any advice, very gratefull, Thanks Bob
In theory you should be fine, as no one can setup any mandate ec without your authority.
:wave