Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 1st generation RX-7's => Topic started by: RamoNZ on July 18, 2010, 09:17:30 PM

Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on July 18, 2010, 09:17:30 PM
Missed retro show, but managed to get some work done on the car.
 
David I guess you need to update my car from standard to \'with extra bits\' :Thumbs-up
 
 
 
Original engine bay
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0417.jpg)
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0419.jpg)
 
 
Bye bye 12a - sweet little runner
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0421.jpg)
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0422.jpg)
 
 
Lots of work to end up with this:
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0424.jpg)
 
 
Result:
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0426.jpg)
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0429.jpg)
 
 
However - the above engine bay photos are only with the engine perched in there, I have a small problem - External \'gate fouls on the steering box... (It is an FC kit so should have figured)
 
So I have 3 choices:

Get some headers and run it NA
Get a new manifold or get something customed.
Swap in FC subframe which has a powered rack and therefore more clearance, but loads more work.
 
Either way, it should be a bit of fun to drive :)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Ian65 on July 18, 2010, 09:45:58 PM
That will be a sweet conversion. The steering box fouling is nearly always a problem on fitting a turbo to a 1st gen it seems.
I\'d definitely persevere with the turbo though, either get a manifold fabbed up or buy one ready done on TradeME NZ.
I\'m really interested to see how this turns out. I\'m putting the Elford setup into my current road car but I want to put a 13BT into my project FB.
Good luck with it, keep the updates coming!
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on July 18, 2010, 09:53:33 PM
Most fouling issues are with the turbo - the manifold puts the turbo well forward so it clears no problem -just the damn external gate and pipes that foul.
 
Hmm - I could always run it with no gate! Motor may not last lobg though...
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: shaunwil on July 18, 2010, 10:09:38 PM
Can you not move the pipe for the wastegate by putting a new pipe in ?

Have you any images of where it is touching ?

Shaun
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on July 18, 2010, 11:32:09 PM
There is a guy on ausrotary who can source specially made manifolds that kick up enough to clear this problem...I found out his name once so I\'ll get back to you.

Engine looks sweet though mate.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on July 19, 2010, 11:25:33 AM
Now suitably noted as 13BT, as clearly it won\'t be going back to 12A in a hurry. Thermal Reactor hanging on in there to the bitter end.

Thanks for the updates and particularly the pics mate.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on July 19, 2010, 12:27:55 PM
There is no way to move the pipes short of cutting them off and rewelding which would look and flow poorly given my welding skills.
 
I think she is going to get the FC subframe, which is more work, but then I do get PAS and the big front brakes....
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Paul-Tll on July 19, 2010, 04:48:13 PM
would it not be easier to make LH Drive ?
Great project BTW
P.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: HaywardRotary on July 19, 2010, 06:36:40 PM
Changing the pipes to the wastegate and moving the position of it should be alot easier than any other recourse.
Have a serious look at that first or you\'ll run into alot more problems to overcome by doing anything else.
Best thing is to take turbo and manifold off,get engine sited/mounted then tackle turbo issue.
Regards
Carl
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on July 19, 2010, 07:15:35 PM
The turbo clears, the manifold clears, just the wastegate pipes want to run where the box is - with a rack it will sit like an FC as the chassis leg width is the same - not sure what you mean by other problems?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: 12at on July 20, 2010, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: RamoNZ;705575There is no way to move the pipes short of cutting them off and rewelding which would look and flow poorly given my welding skills.
 
I think she is going to get the FC subframe, which is more work, but then I do get PAS and the big front brakes....

Quote from: RamoNZ;705649The turbo clears, the manifold clears, just the wastegate pipes want to run where the box is - with a rack it will sit like an FC as the chassis leg width is the same - not sure what you mean by other problems?

 
would have to agree chop off the existing waste gate pipe and weld a new one on so it clears it.. An alternatove is to contact SDRacing on Ausrotary and he does made manifold for around £170 + shipping..
 
What turbo is that and who built the engine??
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: AtomicRex on July 20, 2010, 10:00:45 PM
A couple of pictures of the manifold and down pipe we put on the FB in our workshop
 
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Pictures/IMG_0885.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Pictures/IMG_0886.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Pictures/IMG_0887.JPG)
(http://www.atomicrex.co.uk/downloads/Pictures/IMG_0888.JPG)
 
3.5" system right through with 60mm wastegate
 
Bit difficult to get the pictures to show in this light...but you get the idea :)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Ian65 on July 22, 2010, 04:48:30 PM
Quote from: RamoNZ;705575There is no way to move the pipes short of cutting them off and rewelding which would look and flow poorly given my welding skills.
 
I think she is going to get the FC subframe, which is more work, but then I do get PAS and the big front brakes....

how does the fc subframe affect the track and ride height?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on July 22, 2010, 11:47:08 PM
I saw Don Pamponi\'s S3 after it\'s FC subframe install and both track and ride height seemed fine, although it was a ballache of a job to do aparently. Fair play for doing it but if you need advice from someone who\'s done one the Tim @rxmotors is the gentleman to speak to.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: CHC (RIP) on July 29, 2010, 11:39:48 AM
I\'d look at it from a long term point of view, whatever modification you make, how would this affect the replacement of parts if something broke?  Me, I\'d consider the FC subframe replacement if this were to maximise standardisation whilst still ensuring reliability and performance levels.  Cliff
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on July 29, 2010, 01:00:53 PM
Can\'t pm but I\'m willing to take any and all advice :)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on August 08, 2010, 07:36:22 PM
Well - I did it anyway..
 
FC subframe sitting in the car
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0470.jpg)
 
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0471.jpg)
 
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0467.jpg)
 
Engine now sits nicely, and everything clears! I can now look to plumb the \'cooler too.
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0490.jpg)
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0493.jpg)
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0494.jpg)
 
I got some new rims too - I think the black suits the blue.
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0489.jpg)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Ian65 on August 08, 2010, 08:13:22 PM
That\'s gonna be one awesome car.... the amount of work involved makes my head spin though!
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on August 08, 2010, 10:01:13 PM
I wish I had more time to spend on it, or even better an enthusiastic apprentice!
 
At this rate, I\'m not sure how much summer will be left when its finished!
 
Cooler is 450x300x75 core. Should be sufficient.
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0493.jpg)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: 12at on August 09, 2010, 10:11:01 PM
Nice install there :) i run the same cooler and it works well for the £60 i paid off ebay...
 
what turbo is that? and what ecu you going to run??
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on August 09, 2010, 10:20:34 PM
The cooler was a bargain!
 
Turbo is an old skool KKK from a Jap Blitz kit, no fancy ball bearings or super adavanced aerodynamic compressors but as it is only a T3 1.00 (or thereabouts) exhaust housing it should boost nicely. Its not going to be a dyno queen, its all about the driveability.
 
ECU of choice is the DIYPNP - microsquirt based ECU that has the extra rotary circuits and a plug and play connector to go straight into the S5 loom I got. You still have to build most of it, but it takes the hassle out of doing the wiring from scratch.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Steve-A on August 12, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Looking like its gonna be pretty wild when its done!

Not sure of your Megasquirt experience, but if you need some help message/email me :) I\'ve spent the last 3 weeks fiddling with my megasquirt set-up and with info off the american forums but there\'s a few tricks and tips i\'ve picked up that the forums don\'t mention.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on August 12, 2010, 08:53:07 PM
Yeah, thanks for the offer - i\'ll let you know when Im close!
 
I have been building the map bit by bit, but the biggest problem is that my engine runs the S5 NA rotors so Ill have to take it easy on timing.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Steve-A on August 12, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
This web site has a b7unch of usefull information. http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/megasquirt/ProgramMS1.asp
 
I basically started with his maps then tweaked from there. There are a few things I\'ve done differently though. One of the main things i\'ve done is practically halved the cranking pulse widths, so it may take a few turns to fire but it doesn\'t flood. which when the rest of your map is rough and its stalling lots is rahter useful! In regared cranking I\'ve also set the cranking rpm (in more cranking stuff) to 400rpm as my starter motor wasspinning my engine to 325rpm, and with the cranking rpm set to 300 that means once it gets over 300 rpm it thinks its running normally and not cranking and so doesn\'t give it the retarded timing and extra rich rfueling required for a clean start.
 
I\'d also highly recommend paying for the full version ofd tuner studio for its VE auto tunnig facility. Be setting the AFR target tables then just driving around it does the fuel mapping for you. As long as you keep an eye on the AFRs and make sure if its lean anywhere you richen it up manually and let the computer drag it leaner and leaner gentelly till its correct then its a veyr safe and quick way to get the fueling map sorted. It made very light work of my split map with AFrs of low 16s / high 15s in cruise and then 14.7 in normal conditions and low 13s when WOT.
 
Finally if the DIY PNP doesn\'t already I\'d add a 0.1uF smoothing capacitor between the 2nd CAS trigger input to the ECU and ground, really makes a difference to how well it can read the rpms.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: 12at on August 12, 2010, 09:58:09 PM
Doing anything with the 12a and 5 speed???
 
is it for sale?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on August 14, 2010, 12:42:11 AM
12a is gone, gearbox is up for sale - 64k miles only..
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: 12at on August 15, 2010, 08:40:05 PM
drop me a email with the price.. bo0557 @ gmail.com
 
does it come with clutch, starter, shifter and tailshaft etc ?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on September 25, 2010, 12:06:42 PM
Any updates?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: CHC (RIP) on September 25, 2010, 11:44:33 PM
Nice work ..... looks as if it\'s coming on a treat, nice wheels too.  Should be awesome when finished.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on September 29, 2010, 09:09:46 PM
Sort of updates - this was done a few weeks ago.. been struggling to find time lately due to work etc - The more I do the more I realise I have left!
 
Turbo fitted
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0517.jpg)
 
Inlet manifold painted and injection gear done
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0560.jpg)
 
Big brakes fitted at the front
 
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0556.jpg)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Ian65 on September 29, 2010, 09:16:56 PM
this car is going to be the dogs b*******, can\'t wait to see it finished.
It looks fantastic so far, top work!!
Have you managed to hook up the steering column yet?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on September 29, 2010, 09:18:58 PM
Thought you\'d vanished mate lol.....can you drop your phone no to captainbizzaro at aol dot com just want to continue the conversation we had at rotorstock. I\'m not a stalker honest.:D
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on September 29, 2010, 09:29:23 PM
Steering column... hmm interesting concept - I was going to run without one, but I guess i\'ll add it to the list of things to do.
 
Email sent Tim - that\'s not you parked outside on the road outside my house in a gold RX7 on your laptop is it??
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Ian65 on September 29, 2010, 09:35:58 PM
Quote from: RamoNZ;718818Steering column... hmm interesting concept - I was going to run without one, but I guess i\'ll add it to the list of things to do.
 

I\'d like to drop a 2nd gen sub frame into my project car but the steering column is one of the issues that puts me off. I suppose you\'ll have to put the complete 2nd gen column in will you?
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on September 29, 2010, 09:40:07 PM
No, i have most of it figured out - its half and half and it actually does fit together once you get it all apart.
 
Ive just been concentrating on other things but not having one does make it slightly annoying to move in and out of the garage so i\'ll fit it up soon if I ever get time again!
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on September 29, 2010, 10:02:01 PM
If it\'s the one that just sped off in a panic then yes.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on September 30, 2010, 09:16:51 PM
Hello Ramo I didn\'t get an email mate-didn\'t get sucked up by over excited spam filter either....could you try again if you get a minute.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on November 01, 2010, 09:55:07 PM
Just in case you thought I had sold up I thought I would post another couple pics to show that whilst clearly not running - I have made (small) progress....

Just a refresher - this is how she looked when I started:
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/RX7%20Turbo/1985-1.jpg)

And as she is now..
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0642.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0621-1.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0623.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0624.jpg)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: 12at on November 01, 2010, 10:52:21 PM
looking good dude!!
 
must get this thing on the road and catch up for a cruise...
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Hobbawobba on November 01, 2010, 11:06:06 PM
Nice car man. Im assuming by your username that you are a kiwi also? Haha
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: johnnyboy on February 17, 2011, 02:43:12 PM
Quote from: RamoNZ;724510Just in case you thought I had sold up I thought I would post another couple pics to show that whilst clearly not running - I have made (small) progress....
 
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/IMG_0624.jpg)

 
How is this going? Everything OK?
 
John
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on February 17, 2011, 06:21:06 PM
Its going splendid apart from the lack of effort on my part. In general its been the bitter cold (I blame it on my warmer upbringing) and last weekend was helping a mate with his 1.8T into MK2 Golf conversion which is nearly done now, this weekend I have a house move to do, but given the increasing frequency of sunny days appearing, things will be getting a move on shortly.
 
I\'m well aware there is another conversion going on right before my eyes at light speed (Timbo stop working on your car!) so I\'m going to have to pull finger and get involved!
 
Watch this space :)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: captainbizzaro on February 17, 2011, 06:45:26 PM
Yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaah booooooooooooooooooooooy
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Steve-A on February 17, 2011, 06:51:33 PM
Looking forward to seeing this! Should have a strong fast 1st gen group together for this summers shows :P

I might have to keep n/a to avoid having to compete with you guys though! haha
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: CHC (RIP) on February 17, 2011, 11:38:47 PM
All three of you guys are doing a great job - keep them going.  And of course let\'s not forget about Ian either, doing a brilliant job and that is your goal guys!
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on May 15, 2011, 08:52:51 PM
Warning loads of RX pics!! :cool

Summer (Spring but close enough!) is here and taking a break from chasing birds and alcohol induced comas I thought it only right to pull the old girl from the garage and crack on. Riding shotgun in NEV also whet my appetitie to get this project underway.

Last couple of weekends have been fairly productive:

Driveshaft done and in, I got mine done at the same time as Tims - comapny in Middlesex London did a pretty good jod for a reasonable price.
Nyloc nuts and spring washers to be on the safe side.

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/e13e6f9d.jpg)

Gearbox mount finished - ended up using the S3 mount and modifying it to fit. This is solid in anticipation of the expected power output.

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/75ece2e8.jpg)

3" Dump from the turbo fitted:

3" Turbo downpipe done:

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/60fa3feb.jpg)

Its fairly long so that is about a 3rd of the exhaust done.

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/4a22d112.jpg)

Fitted up the external wastegate, its about 46mm and vents to the atmosphere - known as a \'screamer\' pipe. Fairly anti social, but we will see how it goes before deciding to plumb it in or not.

Wastegate done:

46mm SIGMA with obligatory screamer pipe:

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/6a2675c7.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/b558a90d.jpg)

Power steering pump bolted on, belt tensioned and plumbed into rack. Intercooler pipes will slide right past near the suspension turret.
Power steering done:

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/8bcc4cee.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/98328ba6.jpg)

Oil cooler fitted and clamped properly. 2 inch exhaust clamps off the front brace bar and an angled bracket - similar to Timbo\'s.

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/0e5389c2.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/ade8308c.jpg)

Intercooler done: Braced off the top and and also the bottom by using more exhaust clamps.

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/54463bc1.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/d6e73941.jpg)

Working out the intercooler pipes:

Now that the intercooler is in a fixed posi, I can work out the pipes:

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/ced47a25.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/a6ee46b4.jpg)

Car has been without any form of steering since i dropped the FC subframe in, today was a good opportunity to finish this off. I took my time on this as the last thing I would want is to not have the abilty to steer whilst driving :Nono!

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/e70efc53.jpg)

Looks like any other FB dash, but to me - this photo represents the final hurdle in the FC front subframe conversion - after this, its all plain sailing  :D
(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/ea39669b.jpg)

Exhaust was pretty close to the inlet manifold, so a dose of thermal wrap was in order. Good for 1100c or so they reckon - lets see...

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/67226849.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/2faa24ac.jpg)

I also got an adaptor to mate the FD UIM to the FC LIM so this is the next thing to tackle, not a straight swap, but this picture shows what it will look like - I prefer the cleaner look of the FD upper.

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/647edf54.jpg)

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/41f0b46e.jpg)

It also means that rather than running 8x550cc injectors, I will be running 4x1000cc injectors

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/247988e4.jpg)

Lastly, one little \'in progress\' shot!

(http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab304/ramon959/1649759f.jpg)
Still a few bits to go, but getting very close :3gears-lh
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: David Nock (RIP) on May 15, 2011, 09:14:39 PM
Great Stuff; a lot of engineering gone into that Ramon.

As you say, getting very close now.

Dave
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: Ian65 on May 15, 2011, 09:17:34 PM
This car\'s going to be one mean son of a b**tch!
That turbo looks about 3 times the size of mine.
Great work
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: myatt1972 on May 15, 2011, 10:02:43 PM
Fantastic work, that car will be so much fun.
You got more faith than me in jubilee clips though, those oil cooler lines would worry me.
Keith.
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: RamoNZ on May 15, 2011, 10:06:46 PM
Turbo has an almost identical spec to the Garret GT3782 in terms of compressor inducer/exducer, turbine wheel and and exhaust housing A/R
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT37/GT3782_452159_3.htm

No dyno queen numbers here - just very snappy response and enough push for the little 1000 odd kilo shoebox :)
Title: Sunny weekend means i got to start the 12a to 13bt swap
Post by: shaunwil on May 15, 2011, 10:16:41 PM
Don\'t worry too much Matt about the cooler lines. My FB has run with that kind of clip for the past 2+ yrs without any issues.

Shaun