Following on from my thread about my FC failing on emissions by about 0.38%, with some help we figured out my air pump has been removed, so over time I will need to source bits to replace it, but for now to get it past the MOT I need some help with adjusting the air/fuel mix. It\'s an 87 FC EGi, and I just wanted to know a few things - where is the adjuster (and is it \'tamper proof\'), is it directly the air/fuel mix or is it electronically controlled, and are there any other methods to just get it past an MOT using a temporary measure.
Like I said, I\'ll be on the lookout for airpump bits, and I\'ll have to have some work done on the exhaust to allow for it, but for now any help with this would be great, as I\'ve only got about 5-6 days left for the retest.
Cheers :driving
Its ECU controlled Im afraid dude. Try new plugs and airfilter
Quote from: BlitzBoy;704054Its ECU controlled Im afraid dude. Try new plugs and airfilter
Had a bad feeling it was - balls! Thanks for the info though man.
I\'ve only just replaced the plugs, done an oil/filter change etc, along with a full tank with some 44K put through it, and I\'ve recently replaced the foam filter in the HKS mushroom. It\'s starting to sound like I might have to take it off the road until I get the airpump system sorted!
Any other ideas that might help at all? Anything you\'ve got might be worth a shot, as it\'s only just out.
Hopefully some of the FC owners will chime in, if the MOT is only testing the Idle emissions, maybe adjusting the idle screw to a higher idle speed might help
Quote from: BlitzBoy;704075Hopefully some of the FC owners will chime in, if the MOT is only testing the Idle emissions, maybe adjusting the idle screw to a higher idle speed might help
It is just an idle test yeah. Would a slightly higher idle speed be more likely to give better results than lowering the idle speed? Also, where is the screw located on the 13B? Just to make sure I have the right one!
I think Prof managed to get his FC past once when his was idling at like 500rpm lol there is an idle screw on the BAC on the UIM, there is on a turbo II, but not sure about an egi
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2477/img5174y.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/i/img5174y.jpg/)
There\'s a picture if it helps, not sure if it\'s big enough to see some details. 500rpm - sounds lumpy!
Ah yes! I can see it, you see on the top of the engine, just to the right there is a silver tube, 2 hoses coming out of it with a brown cap, thats the BAC valve, it has a hot water feed that changes how much it vibrates to control the idle when cold and then warmed up. There should be a screw on it.
Quote from: m1tch;704162Ah yes! I can see it, you see on the top of the engine, just to the right there is a silver tube, 2 hoses coming out of it with a brown cap, thats the BAC valve, it has a hot water feed that changes how much it vibrates to control the idle when cold and then warmed up. There should be a screw on it.
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/Skateboarderistismatronics/IMG_5176.jpg)
Here\'s a picture of my BACV - after having a look for this screw I saw a picture of StavFC\'s he was selling (hope you don\'t mind Stav!):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/monkeymagic/DSC00326.jpg)
But on mine, it appears that the screw isn\'t there!:
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/Skateboarderistismatronics/IMG_5178.jpg)
Any ideas?
Is there another way to control the Idle? I\'m taking it in for a retest today, so I need to do all I can. Like I said, it wasn\'t stupidly far out, so anything might help!
Think there is one on the throttle linkage too. You\'ll have to have a look as Im not clued up on the EGI\'s im affraid.
Quote from: haywes;704450Is there another way to control the Idle? I\'m taking it in for a retest today, so I need to do all I can. Like I said, it wasn\'t stupidly far out, so anything might help!
Because of the age of the car - they should be able to test the CO on \'fast idle\' which it should pass. It\'s covered in their MOT testing notes.
The usual tricks:
New Plugs
Thouroughly warmed up car before hand
Ethanol in the fuel tank (it\'s what the americans do apparently)
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/Skateboarderistismatronics/IMG_0203.jpg)
Another picture of it helps!
For the fast idle test, would that be instead of or as well as a normal idle test? Would a faster idle be more likely to produce lower emissions then?
Also, If the Air/Fuel mix is ECU controlled, what sensors does it use to gather the data ? And regarding the TPS - is this ECU controlled or can it be adjusted manually?
Quote from: Prof;704465Because of the age of the car - they should be able to test the CO on \'fast idle\' which it should pass. It\'s covered in their MOT testing notes.
The usual tricks:
New Plugs
Thouroughly warmed up car before hand
Ethanol in the fuel tank (it\'s what the americans do apparently)
The guy on the phone said they have to do it at idle or something - I know for sure he\'s not one of the testers though so I\'ll ask the tester tomorrow.
I put in new plugs very recently, and I always take it for a good drive before hand. I wonder if the ethanol thing might be worth a shot?
I managed to move the retest to tomorrow morning - does anyone have any other ideas at all on what I can do to improve my chances of a pass, or any idea on where I can control the idle other than the BACV since mine doesn\'t have a screw? Also, any ideas on what sensors the ECU uses and where to regulate the air/fuel mix?
Just checked the MOT stuff again - the CO test must be done at \'normal\' idle, if the CO passes this test (<3.5%) but the HC reading is above the allowed 1200 ppm, then the tester can recheck the HC reading at upto 2000 rpm - if it drops below the 1200, the car is considered a pass.
http://www.ukmot.com/6-4.asp#Text_top
The idle adjust for the EGI is on top of the engine in the centre I think. As for fuel mix - it\'s somewhat dependant on what the ecu is telling the injectors to do - and that will be based on temp sensor and so on. The EGI\'s are notorious for leaky injectors - which may give rise to more fuel in the engine than you want for the emissions. Upping the idle speed may help - but these cars are notorious for being on the edge - particularly without the air pump and cat\'s.
Quote from: Prof;704568Just checked the MOT stuff again - the CO test must be done at \'normal\' idle, if the CO passes this test (<3.5%) but the HC reading is above the allowed 1200 ppm, then the tester can recheck the HC reading at upto 2000 rpm - if it drops below the 1200, the car is considered a pass.
http://www.ukmot.com/6-4.asp#Text_top
The idle adjust for the EGI is on top of the engine in the centre I think. As for fuel mix - it\'s somewhat dependant on what the ecu is telling the injectors to do - and that will be based on temp sensor and so on. The EGI\'s are notorious for leaky injectors - which may give rise to more fuel in the engine than you want for the emissions. Upping the idle speed may help - but these cars are notorious for being on the edge - particularly without the air pump and cat\'s.
Thanks for the info, I suppose I\'ll just have to see what I can do. I\'ve done a few other things I\'ve had suggested to me by various people, so hopefully it might just be enough to scrape through!
The middle of the engine is in the picture above, do you know if it\'s anything on that picture?
Failed again this morning, I\'m not sure what else I can do apart from trying to replace the air pump system. Thanks for the help anyway guys, I\'ll be taking it off the road until I can get it sorted.
Did you try 10% methanol in the fuel tank?
Failing that give me a text on 07976017773 and I might be able to help point you in the right direction.
Ben
Methanol or any other alcohol can help. 10% may not do much. I would use more, just don\'t boost with that tank. Fill up about 1/4 tank of premium and then add the alcohol. An alternative to the mechanical air pumps is to use an electric one. Such as off a vette or rx8.
Quote from: kompactor;704776Methanol or any other alcohol can help. 10% may not do much. I would use more, just don\'t boost with that tank. Fill up about 1/4 tank of premium and then add the alcohol. An alternative to the mechanical air pumps is to use an electric one. Such as off a vette or rx8.
It\'s an NA, so it should be ok. I am guessing that E85 in the tank should work as well. Maybe run or syphon the tank quite low, then pop a couple of quid\'s worth of E85 in it for the test, filling up with regular fuel after wards.
Yeah just make sure the car still runs, if you run too much alcohol without any tuning changes it will be lean and start missing. And if you put too much load on it then that could be catastrophic.
Sounds like something I can try at least - where would I find Methanol/E85 though? And how much do you think would be a safe amount/mix to put in? Also, while it\'s in, would it be safe to stay below a certain amount of RPM? When it failed today it was out by something like 0.14%, so it was even closer, so this might just be enough.
Oh and, would it be better to use premium or normal unleaded for it?
Premium. Not sure the % to mix, you will just have to add some and see how it goes. As long as you don\'t put much load on the engine it will be fine. So drive it like a grandma, if it hesitates or bucks you need to run more gasoline with it.
Quote from: haywes;704858Sounds like something I can try at least - where would I find Methanol/E85 though? And how much do you think would be a safe amount/mix to put in? Also, while it\'s in, would it be safe to stay below a certain amount of RPM? When it failed today it was out by something like 0.14%, so it was even closer, so this might just be enough.
Oh and, would it be better to use premium or normal unleaded for it?
The E85 is biofuel - so some of the larger petrol stations sell it. Meth\'s (The purple stuff) is 90% Ethanol and about 5% Methanol, the rest is water, colour and some bitterent to stop Chav\'s drinking it. :cheers
Quote from: Prof;704884The E85 is biofuel - so some of the larger petrol stations sell it. Meth\'s (The purple stuff) is 90% Ethanol and about 5% Methanol, the rest is water, colour and some bitterent to stop Chav\'s drinking it. :cheers
I\'ve just found that a Morrisons sells it up in Hartcliffe, so I might have to take a trip up there. If I get some of that, would you think about 1/4 tank of premium and a few litres of E85 would do? Or any advice on a rough amount? Would I have to drive it a bit to get it all mixed and going through or should it be pretty instant? Man it feels so dodgy putting something else in the tank! :rolleyes:
my guess is you don\'t have to trim it by much. Is there a friendly garage nearby that will let you test the emissions, save you booking it for MOT if this isn\'t going to work.
NA engines are quite tolerant of low octane - so you should be ok with a mix - I would even try just running the tank nearly dry and putting regular 95 RON in, see how much that brings it down by. Only the Turbo cars need the higher RON.
Yeah lower octane might be enough to pass. I suggested the premium due to it usually being a better, cleaner fuel and the alcohol would be the mixture that helps you pass. But you could try just lower octane, or lower octane with alcohol, or higher octane with more alcohol. Or you can bring some extra cash and suggest running a different car in place of yours... maybe a hybrid haha
hi, i havent got an fc any more but it was an egi and thought it had this screw adjust for the afr oIMG]http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx331/jon103a/fcfueladjust.jpg[/IMG]n the off side strut mount area? had a plug with 3 wires to it.
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx331/jon103a/fcfueladjust.jpg[/IMG]
It\'s all okay now, I got some E85 and put that in a tank with a small amount of unleaded, and it went down to 2.6% the first time, to 2.15% today - when it passed! Much better than 4%!
Thanks for the help guys, that\'s another 12 months sorted, and I\'ve got a trick for next year :driving
Good deal glad you got it sorted out. How much of a mixture did you use and how did the car run with it?
I was looking for the nearest e85 garage and its like a 100 mile round trip to york and back here. Hope mine passes to save me a trip :Giggle
Prof : Is the purple meths an option to use instead of e85?
Im also interested how much e85 you used and how much unleaded you had in your tank.
congrats for passing:Thumbsup!
I must have had about half of each - roughly 3 litres of unleaded and 3 litres of E85. It seemed to run completely fine actually, no chugs or chokes, but as soon as it was through it was back to the normal fuel!
I literally only put it in at the test garage, and then put some more normal fuel in at the nearest petrol station I could after, driving it very carefully. Worked a treat though, and it\'s back on the road :Thumbs-up