Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: nwo1986 on July 06, 2010, 12:36:36 PM

Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: nwo1986 on July 06, 2010, 12:36:36 PM
Hi everyone,
 
Now I havent been on here for 2 years now so please sont give me to much grief for what im about to ask!
 
Ive recently had a few Toyota supras (loved them both) and a GT4 ST205 (an absolute ..... of a car lol)
 
For the last 6 months ive been saving and wondering what would be my next project. Ive always loved the RX7 as a car but really dont like the rotary engine (through fear of unreliabilty and expenditure on rebuilding it) which im sure many of you will say is down to the owner and how well the car hase been looked after!
 
I recently saw an american car forum with a chap who stuck an LS1 v8 in an 1995 rx7 and I fell in love.
 
Ive spent some time researching and although it would seem from feedback that some of the conversion kits can be abit crap for the money but still im hooked to get one!
 
Now my questions to cut a long story short are...
 
 
* Are there any kits in the UK or do I have to import?
 
* Exactly what will I need? (There was a V8 RX7 forum that told me everything but its closed now i believe)
 
* Is there a better conversion I could do for the same money? Id prefer v8 for the sound alone lol and handling doesnt bother me a huge amount as it\'ll be a weekend cruiser not a daily driver or track day car!
 
Thankyou
 
Dave
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Bobbit on July 06, 2010, 12:42:09 PM
You\'d be better off asking on FDUK bud, people on here seem to take offence if you mention the V8 conversion
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: nwo1986 on July 06, 2010, 12:45:15 PM
Really? I did look on an american rx7 site and they hated people talking about v8 conversions...
 
In British terms to them it was like sticking a vauxhall vectra engine in an RX7!! LOL
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 06, 2010, 12:45:50 PM
Quote from: nwo1986;703059* Is there a better conversion I could do for the same money?

Yes...
 
Stick with the rotary :Thumbs-up
 
Just get it rebuilt with uprated seals.
 
It will cost you a whole lot less than a V8 conversion would and sound a lot better!
 
V8 conversions are expensive, you could get around 3 rebuilds for the same price as the conversion.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: nwo1986 on July 06, 2010, 12:50:25 PM
Ok ok well i think ill give it a miss, thanks for the honest advice.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 06, 2010, 12:55:00 PM
Research into it buddy.
 
Take a bunch of opinions into consideration... mines not neccesarily the be all and end all
 
It is just that.. my opinion :)
 
I think the conversion is expensive for what you are getting. Others may not
 
Have your Supras been modified?
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Hi RX7 on July 06, 2010, 01:17:21 PM
I\'m sure if you do a search on this forum you will find a lot of information as I started a thread about it. Tinker 27 is the man in the know regarding this highly contentious issue.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: johnf on July 06, 2010, 01:23:17 PM
If you want to talk V8 - talk to Craig

http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59621
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: efiniste on July 06, 2010, 01:27:34 PM
Most of the people who were on the V8RX7 forum are now at //www.norotors.com

Steve
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: turbo boy on July 06, 2010, 03:21:53 PM
I can`t believe there is a forum dedicated to non rotary-powered rexes!:eek:
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 06, 2010, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: turbo boy;703083I can`t believe there is a forum dedicated to non rotary-powered rexes!:eek:

Doesn\'t make sense does it :2eek
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: efiniste on July 06, 2010, 04:01:47 PM
Considering the usual .... storm that occurs on most V8 threads, is it really that surprising?
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: SiH on July 06, 2010, 04:32:57 PM
Yep, speak to Craig at Dyno-torque - he\'s pretty much the man you need to speak to about V8 FD\'s, and a bloody nice bloke to boot.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: kiwimazda on July 06, 2010, 06:20:06 PM
V8 V8 V8 V8
Do it. Nice big 350 chevy with a muncie box. Oooooh yeah now were talking
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Pau1 on July 06, 2010, 08:16:32 PM
I had one built by Craig. Still loving it a year on. With the price of kits and all the other gubbins you\'ll need it\'s worth while having it done right first time by Craig. His workmanship is second to none.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/Pau1/RX7%20LS1%20Project/IMG_1164.jpg)
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: tinker-27 on July 06, 2010, 08:49:37 PM
hi give me a call if you like 07950399080 and i can give you the info you need, there are about 20 fds with v8s in them now in england !!, ive done most of them . ive just finished a supra with a ls1 in it as well. most people have never been in a v8 fd so remember that when you get advice, ive had mine for 8 years the longest ive ever kept a car in my life and no thoughts of ever selling it (just fitting two turbos to keep me happy)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=69&t=796662&mid=50716&i=0&nmt=another%20twin%20turbo%207.0l%20build&mid=50716 . you can also buy kits from the states as some people have done or drive in drive out (normally push in if it was rotary) or part build ie engine and box fitted but no wiring or plumbing
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: m1tch on July 06, 2010, 09:27:57 PM
I was looking at getting a piston powered performance car, but the cost of getting power out of an inefficient design and the shear cost of internals it was cheaper to get a rotary mines on 89k, compression test is showing its basically a new engine, running 14.2 on stock boost down santapod.

Will be at 300% OEM power next year, don\'t think you can do that with piston engines

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l49/m1tch_2006/easywayout.jpg)

Its your car though, just try not to take another good FD off the road, there aren\'t many left!
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 06, 2010, 10:30:03 PM
Agree with Mitch :)
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: skybusr34 on July 06, 2010, 11:06:21 PM
and here we go. rotary  is better ner ner.....  i personally love the rotary power delivery the noise and the fact everyone askes is it a 1.3 blah blah blah

BUT

i also love the idea of v8 rex. all you haters really should try before you slate.. why does v8 rx7 threads always turn to poop..


my 2p worth..

i would love one of each.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: tinker-27 on July 07, 2010, 10:36:27 AM
maybe i should put a diesel in a fd , now that would cause some fun !!
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: od404 on July 07, 2010, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: tinker-27;703189maybe i should put a diesel in a fd , now that would cause some fun !!

One of these please!

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/12/13/audi-v12-tdi-a-quantum-leap-in-diesel-technology/

:flamed
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: jackaleks on July 07, 2010, 12:02:06 PM
Quote from: tinker-27;703189maybe i should put a diesel in a fd , now that would cause some fun !!

...a Cummins diesel, or one of the big lumps from the VW Phaeton :D
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: od404 on July 07, 2010, 12:04:04 PM
Quote from: jackaleks;703208...a Cummins diesel

Nah, our engines will have run out of revs before most single turbo rotaries make boost :Giggle
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: StavFC on July 07, 2010, 02:16:09 PM
Looking at things from experience of both types of engine and without rotary blinkers, a V8 would ultimately be the best option by far for a decent power RX.
Unfortunately money is the big deciding factor for everyone, and its not cheap to do.
 
I did the sums, and when you add up all the small bits, plus transmission etc, you\'d not have much change from 7k doing it to a fairly good spec and doing it yourself (even if you used a SBC instead of a LS), and I dread to think what the companies who do drive-in drive out conversions have to charge to make money.
 
In comparison, getting big power and/or rebuilding a rotary is relatively cheap if done right and not just blindly throwing money around.
 
In the long run (I mean over a fair number of years) it would still be cheaper to run a 500bhp V8 than a 500bhp rotary going by how long peoples engines tend to last (people using the life span of almost stock rotary engines with an easy life as a comparison is hillarious/retarded), but the initial outlay means its not that viable for many people, me included.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: skybusr34 on July 07, 2010, 02:30:49 PM
^^^ agreed to a certain degree....

most rebuilders charge 3k for rebuild.. decent single turbo kit 2500, new clutch, fueling, ecu, radiator, intercooler etc etc  another 2500.  theres 8k already
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: StavFC on July 07, 2010, 02:37:29 PM
Yes, thats the thing. Everything is far cheaper when you do it yourself, rotary more so than the V8 purely as you will have started with more rotary parts as a base and unfortunately the land of cheap V8 parts is the USA, and once taxes and shipping is done with, they simply arent that cheap here, though you do get more for you cash.
But both are f-off expensive if paying someone!
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: SiH on July 07, 2010, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: tinker-27;703189maybe i should put a diesel in a fd , now that would cause some fun !!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=204235
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb_KaPYGsI0
:)
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: imebgo on July 07, 2010, 03:11:14 PM
20b 20b 20b
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on July 12, 2010, 10:42:48 PM
26B 26B 26B, however a v8 from a v8 supercar in oz would sound awesome and go like stink, im sure they rev up to 10,000 rpm. Rotary territory! V8 or Rotary, i would have them both if i had the cash.
Title: Whats Best Rotary or Piston????
Post by: Mir on July 12, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
By comparison Roatry is far more better than a Piston Engine.... Everyone says that you have to rebuild rotary after certain millage but I say you have to rebuild any engine after certain millage.... someone said...those who support piston supports a family car (four door) like subru or EVO not a sports car.... I have seen Skylines breaking pistons and RX7 breaking Apex seals.... so this experience tells me that both engines (rotary and piston) engines are breakable then why we degrade one engine and uprate the other.....both engines can break.... I am running 20B 3 ROTOR and I can tell you from my experience...keeping a rotary engine means that you are always on your tows.... you have to ensure that at all times everything is ok with your car i.e. water level..oil etc ....which is the real fun of having a sports car that your head is under the bonnet and you are admiring your engine from each angle.... on the other hand you may get away with piston engine on these issues but you are loosing on the fun of the sports car (see above)....I know different people have different ways of having fun so I am not gona go there:Giggle.... If anyone would say anything bad about rotary engines I guess it should be me not anyone els....as I have broken 4 (four) 13b engines in 3 months but I still decided to stay with rotaries because the fun..the torque the look of rx7 beats everything comes in her way... trust me on this..:WaveBye
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: JamietypeR on July 13, 2010, 10:05:55 AM
Does it have to be a v8 engine, I saw a rx7 for sale with a nissan 200sx engine in it. I\'m sure that would be alot cheaper an user friendly to get fitted and run
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 13, 2010, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: Mir;704188By comparison Roatry is far more better than a Piston Engine.... Everyone says that you have to rebuild rotary after certain millage but I say you have to rebuild any engine after certain millage.... someone said...those who support piston supports a family car (four door) like subru or EVO not a sports car.... I have seen Skylines breaking pistons and RX7 breaking Apex seals.... so this experience tells me that both engines (rotary and piston) engines are breakable then why we degrade one engine and uprate the other.....both engines can break.... I am running 20B 3 ROTOR and I can tell you from my experience...keeping a rotary engine means that you are always on your tows.... you have to ensure that at all times everything is ok with your car i.e. water level..oil etc ....which is the real fun of having a sports car that your head is under the bonnet and you are admiring your engine from each angle.... on the other hand you may get away with piston engine on these issues but you are loosing on the fun of the sports car (see above)....I know different people have different ways of having fun so I am not gona go there:Giggle.... If anyone would say anything bad about rotary engines I guess it should be me not anyone els....as I have broken 4 (four) 13b engines in 3 months but I still decided to stay with rotaries because the fun..the torque the look of rx7 beats everything comes in her way... trust me on this..:WaveBye

 
This :Thumbsup!
 
Any modified engine will put more strain on it.
 
Those who think a highly modified piston engine won\'t encounter problems, just ask the Evo and Sti boys.
 
Rebuilding a skyline engine? How about 9k please?
 
Firstly instaling a v8 is VERY costly, people don\'t seem to realise this.
 
A good installation will cost at least 10K.
 
Then if it goes, well take out a bank loan.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: JamietypeR on July 13, 2010, 11:21:23 AM
I agree the rotary is an amazing engine for pure thrill, but cost wise it\'s crazy a piston engine doesn\'t need rebuilding every year like most ....els do that\'s the catch. Rx7 is by far the most sexiest looking car to come out of japan, it just needs abit more reliability behind it.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: BlitzBoy on July 13, 2010, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: JamietypeR;704229, I saw a rx7 for sale with a nissan 200sx engine in it.

FAIL....

At least with a V8 you have decent noise, the SR20 has the most boring engine note of all time, Ive had two Pulsar and a 200SX zzzz in the noise stakes lol
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 13, 2010, 11:58:40 AM
Quote from: JamietypeR;704240I agree the rotary is an amazing engine for pure thrill, but cost wise it\'s crazy a piston engine doesn\'t need rebuilding every year like most ....els do that\'s the catch. Rx7 is by far the most sexiest looking car to come out of japan, it just needs abit more reliability behind it.

That\'s why all the research and design in recent years has gone to uprated seals.
 
Try them before you knock them :)
 
And it\'s important to get the map right. Any engine, piston or rotary that\'s not mapped right will go.
 
And you say rotaries need a rebuilding every year like most... WHO?
 
I have known plenty of rx7 owners and they have never needed a rebuild in a year without it being the cause of an ancillary or the person pushing their car to the limit.
 
Where do people get facts like the above from?
 
That\'s what gives rotaries a bad name, this myth about the engines going every year and every 6 thousand miles.
 
Those who look after their car and engine correctly never have the problem you mention above.
 
The car will only be as good as how much effort you put into looking after it.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: tinker-27 on July 14, 2010, 10:55:17 AM
what some people dont seem to realise is like my self i wanted a v8 powered car to have fun in like a tvr but didnt want a fibre glass kit car so we build a rear wheel drive no traction control fun car and we choose a v8 because they tick all the right boxes . we dont hate rotarys and we dont slag them (i quite like them), but over half my customers buy dead fds to convert and are not already owners , we use fds because they are one of the best donor vehicles about. it does cost money to do but you end up with a car with a 2004-2009 engine gearbox and wiring and 500bhp wheel power is doable and still reliable,
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: JamietypeR on July 14, 2010, 11:26:25 AM
No one is putting down rotary engines they are good at what they do but u cannot compare there reliability to a piston engine, u never see supras or skylines breaking unless someone has smashed up the car. REX_FTW there not made up storys as quoted by the guy above who you have quoted aswell  MIR (If anyone would say anything bad about rotary engines I guess it should be me not anyone els....as I have broken 4 (four) 13b engines in 3 months) if u had a piston engine rebuilt after it\'s done well over 150,000miles u wouldn\'t need another for a very long time. But having said this I\'m still a rotary fan even tho I have chucked £ssss into my car
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 14, 2010, 11:29:23 AM
I have heard of skyline engines going.
 
And they cost a shed load more to repair than a rotary.
 
As for your woes with the engine, I am sorry to hear that.
 
However it can\'t be a coincidence that you have done that many engines in such a short space of time.
 
Check your loom etc as there is a deeper reason to what has happened to you... and it is not the engine.
 
Check you ancillaries too and who maps your car?
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: BlitzBoy on July 14, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
Ive heard of plenty of Skyline engines going bang.

Jamie if you had so many engines going in such a small space of time like has been said before check your ancillaries,mapper etc

I\'ve had my Drag spec engine for the last three years over 550bhp,over 10000 miles, many many full blown high rpm drag runs, not a peep of a breakage.

Any engine is only as reliable as the bits around it and who maps it.
The reason why a lot of rotary engines break is because they are more sensitive to ancillaries around it going wrong. A piston can take some abuse if things are not 100% on the ancillaries front.

And a NA engine will always be more reliable then a force fed engine
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: SiH on July 14, 2010, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: JamietypeR;704430u never see supras or skylines breaking unless someone has smashed up the car.
Utter tripe. You need to dig deeper into RB reliability, espeically when tuned ;)

Quotebroken 4 (four) 13b engines in 3 months)
Who built the engines?

I\'m bored of this argument, I really am. I love the 13b, and I love V8\'s. I\'d happily have a V8 RX7. In my fantasy garage my whire FD would sit beside an LS\'d Black Burnout FD with ridiculous cams and very little silencing.
Rotaries are great, V8\'s are great.

So, remind me, who\'s dad was better than whose? And was it the PS3 or XBOX that pwns y0?
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: JamietypeR on July 14, 2010, 12:10:55 PM
It\'s not my enigine that has popped four times guys, I\'ve only had the 1 rebuild, I was quoting (MIR) from this threade he has had four rebuilds in that space of time. I\'m keeping my engine standard in the hope that it will run all normal for me.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: SiH on July 14, 2010, 12:13:20 PM
If someone has had 4 engien rebuilds in 3 months, I\'d suggest it was time to look at either:
a) Their builder
b) Their tuner
c) their ancilliaries
d) their mechanical sympathy
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on July 14, 2010, 07:35:11 PM
i never realised how touchy people can get over this discussion. Im sure everyone has seen this video i am linking to but whoever says that they wouldnt want an engine like this in their car then they dont deserve one at all. LOL
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB1Wrv0SiyQ
 
I know it is not an FD RX7 but sure as hell is awesome, expensive and funny.
 
When i have looked for information on V8 conversions, you are looking at £15000 for everything, including a t56 gear box or something like that.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 14, 2010, 08:17:29 PM
If there were thousands of rx7s I don\'t think it would be a problem. But there are not.

The fact is that people hear silly myths about the engine, then think oh I can\'t keep that in its going to blow up in 1000 miles.

There are hardly any rx7s to begin with, and as more and more people think they need to change the engine, there will hardly be any rotary rx7s left. There is no need to change it if you look after engine like it should.

When doing a rebuild, get a new loom. People seem to forget these cars are 15 years old and so ancillaries will inevitabley go and it won\'t cost much to replace them.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on July 14, 2010, 10:28:52 PM
Quote from: Rex_FTW;704550If there were thousands of rx7s I don\'t think it would be a problem. But there are not.

The fact is that people hear silly myths about the engine, then think oh I can\'t keep that in its going to blow up in 1000 miles.

There are hardly any rx7s to begin with, and as more and more people think they need to change the engine, there will hardly be any rotary rx7s left. There is no need to change it if you look after engine like it should.

When doing a rebuild, get a new loom. People seem to forget these cars are 15 years old and so ancillaries will inevitabley go and it won\'t cost much to replace them.

I do agree that they need to be kept as is, I have one of the uk rx7s sold in this country out of 125 originally sold and around only 50 left. The rotary engine is an amazing piece engineering and there is nothing else that makes that very distinctive soun
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: rx-dave on July 15, 2010, 07:42:03 AM
Quote from: tinker-27;704419what some people dont seem to realise is like my self i wanted a v8 powered car to have fun in like a tvr but didnt want a fibre glass kit car so we build a rear wheel drive no traction control fun car and we choose a v8 because they tick all the right boxes . we dont hate rotarys and we dont slag them (i quite like them), but over half my customers buy dead fds to convert and are not already owners , we use fds because they are one of the best donor vehicles about. it does cost money to do but you end up with a car with a 2004-2009 engine gearbox and wiring and 500bhp wheel power is doable and still reliable,

Have you got some contact details or a website, i\'d be interested in this.
Dave.
esp.ltd@hotmail.co.uk (esp.ltd@hotmail.co.uk)
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Hi RX7 on July 15, 2010, 09:31:26 AM
After 4 engine re-builds I would be seriously looking into who did the re-building. As someone who had an engine blow after a few weeks of ownership I began to seriously question the rotary and was looking to go V8 but my local rotary specialist RE-Worx did the rebuild, its been over a year now and many thousands of miles plus a few trackdays later and the engine is running fine apart from an overheating issue which will be solved by a V-Mount. As a member of the Hampshire Jap Car Club there are several owners of Skylines and Subaru\'s, Evo\'s etc and I can assure you that when you start getting big power out of these cars there are just as many engine blow ups/issues as you have with rotaries I can assure you of this because it is of great interest to me and I always note these issues. In my opinion the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of RX7\'s on the market and probably the majority have not been looked after properly because the owner couldn\'t afford or thought they knew better than to get a proper tuner to look after it and the consequences are usually the car going pop when the new owner gets hold of it. Having now run the car for a decent period of time I am firmly in the rotary camp at the moment but if the engine does go pop again it will without any doubt be replaced with a V8.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 15, 2010, 10:37:41 AM
Quote from: David Wiltshire;704622After 4 engine re-builds I would be seriously looking into who did the re-building. As someone who had an engine blow after a few weeks of ownership I began to seriously question the rotary and was looking to go V8 but my local rotary specialist RE-Worx did the rebuild, its been over a year now and many thousands of miles plus a few trackdays later and the engine is running fine apart from an overheating issue which will be solved by a V-Mount. As a member of the Hampshire Jap Car Club there are several owners of Skylines and Subaru\'s, Evo\'s etc and I can assure you that when you start getting big power out of these cars there are just as many engine blow ups/issues as you have with rotaries I can assure you of this because it is of great interest to me and I always note these issues. In my opinion the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of RX7\'s on the market and probably the majority have not been looked after properly because the owner couldn\'t afford or thought they knew better than to get a proper tuner to look after it and the consequences are usually the car going pop when the new owner gets hold of it. Having now run the car for a decent period of time I am firmly in the rotary camp at the moment but if the engine does go pop again it will without any doubt be replaced with a V8.

So you would be happy spending 15K to do the conversion? If you\'re going to do the conversion, you might as well do it right and spend the money to do it properly.
 
People seem to think going v8 is cheaper, look into the costs and it does not seem as cheap as people think.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Hi RX7 on July 15, 2010, 12:25:32 PM
My current thoughts are that yes the V8 will be expesive but rather than spend more money on a rotary re-build at that point the V8 would go in because I\'m satisfied that the car would be as good with the transplant
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Rex_FTW on July 15, 2010, 02:09:52 PM
Quote from: David Wiltshire;704677My current thoughts are that yes the V8 will be expesive but rather than spend more money on a rotary re-build at that point the V8 would go in because I\'m satisfied that the car would be as good with the transplant

At a much higher cost, with the benefits which are questionable.
 
ReWorx would probably rebuild it for you for a fifth of the price of the transplant, especially as an existing customer.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Hi RX7 on July 15, 2010, 03:48:13 PM
This is why my decision has been so difficult because the car is a very nice example of a Bathurst X which is in very good condition and had all the suspension/brakes/polybushes etc done. I do ask myself the question as to whether it is sacrilege to do this to a nice example, but then again it is not an appreciating asset its a car that goes well on track and on the road so putting the V8 in would despite the cost allow me to continue to enjoy the car and not have that nagging doubt in the back of my mind that I could blow it up, although this particular thought is fading into the distance as time passes. I think its important to emphasize that I am neither pro or anti rotary or V8 but if it fails again despite my high degree of mechanical sympathy and admiration towards the unique status of the rotary engine I\'ll get it ripped out despite the very big cost in doing so.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: SiH on July 16, 2010, 08:39:31 AM
OK, I love my car, and I never plan on selling it. But as said, there is unquestionably room in my garage (and my heart) for something that looks like this (http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/vo56539,1253301258,burnout1wd5gp5.jpg) and sounds like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0tKxdFqRxU).
If that were offered to me in exchage for my single\'d 13b FD, I\'d have a very hard decision to make.

I suspect I\'d also lose a lot of friends :D
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: skybusr34 on July 16, 2010, 09:06:24 AM
^^^ im with ya on this one.... if remember right.. there was a burn out kitted rex. with an LS?? for sale on rx7club a few months back.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: rx-dave on July 16, 2010, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: SiH;704904OK, I love my car, and I never plan on selling it. But as said, there is unquestionably room in my garage (and my heart) for something that looks like this (http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/vo56539,1253301258,burnout1wd5gp5.jpg) and sounds like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0tKxdFqRxU).
If that were offered to me in exchage for my single\'d 13b FD, I\'d have a very hard decision to make.
 
I suspect I\'d also lose a lot of friends :D

Christ!! That is one loud car!!
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bimbleuk on July 31, 2010, 09:02:25 AM
I was going to use Craig\'s services but decided I\'d rather do my own conversion and know the car inside out. I went for a conversion kit from a company called Samberg Rod & Custom. Great compnay to deal with and physically bolting the engine and gearbox in took less than a day.
 
Personally I think of an engine I want to use then the car to fit it to!. I wanted something different from the poxy 1.6 supercharged engines I\'d been playing with for the last few years. The LSx engines seemed to be the right choice. I was originally going to use a 944 but there\'s more choice for the RX7. The RX7 is very well designed with great balance and decent brakes so that was a good base to use. I bought an auto with a non-running rotary as it was a decent price and the bodywork was straight.
 
Here\'s the very basc costs for the major components for my conversion.
 
5.7 LS1 V8 £4500
Engine conversion kit £1250
Sump conversion kit £400
SS bespoke exhaust £1000
RX7 \'94 auto £900
Misc parts £1000-2000 on top for a rough cost guide.
 
The engine came with the ECU, wiring, T56 gearbox, ancillaries and a Landrover rad too. Pick an F Body LSx and you don\'t need the sump kit. You could make the exhaust cheaper with the stock cast manifolds but they are tricky to fit in a RHD conversion. No labour costs in there as I did most of the work myself apart from the exhaust system which was made on the car. Some misc parts include a Corbeau seat (£350) and other parts not absolutely necessary to do a basic conversion.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Hi RX7 on July 31, 2010, 11:03:59 AM
Just as a matter of interest did you check out the new LS engines offered by British American Engines as they list the new LS3 on there and when the day eventually comes I was going to purchase a new one from them rather than try to get a secondhand one.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bimbleuk on August 01, 2010, 02:02:46 AM
Quote from: David Wiltshire;707987Just as a matter of interest did you check out the new LS engines offered by British American Engines as they list the new LS3 on there and when the day eventually comes I was going to purchase a new one from them rather than try to get a secondhand one.

Yep I would have fitted an LS7 but look at the prices below for the LS3 and you\'ll see why I went for a used LS1.
 
Engine £5000
Ancillaries £440
ECM, Harness & sensors £1200
Gearbox £2600
 
Then add VAT!! For the money I saved I could build one very powerful LS1. Parts World Performance are a bit cheaper then BAE.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Hi RX7 on August 01, 2010, 10:21:25 AM
Thanks they are a bit cheaper than BAE. Despite the cost when the day comes I will probably just opt for new anyway.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bimbleuk on August 01, 2010, 05:56:01 PM
Not such a bad idea to buy the core engine new and source the rest 2nd hand. The crates engines don\'t come with clutches or even a flywheel so be aware of that.
 
If you find one the T56 does appear on Ebay and they ususally go for between £1000-1500. I bought a pre-modified PCM (ECU to us) from a guy in the US for $175.00 shipped. Needed so you don\'t get lots of errors and limp mode when you start the engine. Just to plug my Monaro PCM in to the right OBDII programmer to remove the security and emmisions I was quoted £300 over here!
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: efiniste on August 01, 2010, 06:19:46 PM
Quote from: bimbleuk;708130Just to plug my Monaro PCM in to the right OBDII programmer to remove the security and emmisions I was quoted £300 over here!

You should have asked on here mate. I\'d have done it for the cost of the licence plus a couple of beer tokens!

Steve
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bimbleuk on August 02, 2010, 09:39:45 AM
Quote from: efiniste;708132You should have asked on here mate. I\'d have done it for the cost of the licence plus a couple of beer tokens!
 
Steve

Hi Steve,
 
I could still be interested as I\'m using a Camaro based PCM with a stock map so it\'s limted to around 350BHP. My HSV PCM which I still have is potentially up to 380BHP but will require all the emmisions, security and anything else which may trigger OBDII or PCM errors.
 
Cheers
Justin
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: efiniste on August 02, 2010, 10:15:09 AM
I should be able to sort that for you. It\'s for an LS1 isn\'t it? Can you send me a pic of the PCM connector just to make sure I\'ve got the right test harness for it? email it to steve at efini dot co dot uk

cheers,

Steve
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Mir on August 02, 2010, 11:15:15 AM
After the detailed discussion on V8 conversion etc etc...I came to the conclusin that people are discussing two points

1 Reliability
2 Power

In my opinion if someone is looking for a big power and also looking for  a conversion then 20b is by far far the better option...not because I  own one and love it in every moment of life :mmmm  but because at least you are using rotary engine in the rotary powered  car!!!not piston engine in the Rotary Powered car...I wish people should  leave RX7 alone and do their experiments on some other family cars  (four door Subaru\'s :Giggle) etc etc...

All engines are reliable and all engines are good but they only let you  down when you demand something from them that you have not equipped them  with:mad:

Because of all this discussion, I have decided to buy an RX7 and do an LS1 CONVERSION not because I found the right path lolll:Giggle  only because I wanna do the comparison of 20b with LS1 conversin and  see what is best for all of us...I can tell you one thing I am rotary  and I will always remain rotary no matter what...but to prove the point I  would have to walk extra mile.... I can say one thing...20b is more  reliable conversion than LS1 and hopefully I will prove that....

Question about my builder..hahahah I can put my hands on heart and say  that it was not a fault of my builder or tuner it was meeeeeeeee who was  impatient and caused this problem lollll Also there was a well known  rotray specialist involved (who was only guiding me...no work was done  by him) during those rebuilds who advised me that "as soon your engine  is build you should be able to put your foot down" and I did followed  his advise:Grrr

Long story.. I dont want to ashame him but what he did to me and how he  earned money from me was disgusting.... I am sure all you knows him  welll

Good day to everyone..
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: PDale on August 02, 2010, 12:58:32 PM
Mir, can you drop me an email to pauldale9 at hotmail dot co dot uk   as I\'m interested to know which tuner it was. Thanks
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: connor66 on August 27, 2010, 11:24:46 PM
If anyone is interested in buying an FD with an LS1, there\'ll be one for sale on here tomorrow

Cheers
Gary
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: gonzodave on September 29, 2010, 06:23:55 PM
I see it as if you want a v8 car but a v8 car,if you want a rotary car buy a rotary car, why change lol dont make sense to me really, i know people running a rebuilt rotary with 450bhp+ on track use only and still running after 45k miles, think what ya like, but i hope rotaries take over the world :-)
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bikealarmblair on October 30, 2011, 12:16:30 PM
Quote from: Mir;708240Because of all this discussion, I have decided to buy an RX7 and do an LS1 CONVERSION not because I found the right path lolll:Giggle  only because I wanna do the comparison of 20b with LS1 conversin and  see what is best for all of us...I can tell you one thing I am rotary  and I will always remain rotary no matter what...but to prove the point I  would have to walk extra mile.... I can say one thing...20b is more  reliable conversion than LS1 and hopefully I will prove that....


Where is it?
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bikealarmblair on October 30, 2011, 12:18:05 PM
Quote from: rx-dave;704608Have you got some contact details or a website, i\'d be interested in this.
Dave.
esp.ltd@hotmail.co.uk (esp.ltd@hotmail.co.uk)

//Www.DynoTorque.co.uk
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: stylus350 on October 30, 2011, 12:41:51 PM
Holy Moly Blair, 13month thread revival. Mind you at least there is a website worth looking at now.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: playtime on November 25, 2011, 11:33:42 PM
shocking money on the options above. I would have thought the all alloy 4litre v8 lexus engine with a eaton jag supercharger and an aftermarket ecu, would be a considerably cheaper option, going by the price of the couple lexus Ive seen last wee while. Only my opinion though.......
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bimbleuk on November 26, 2011, 05:11:01 AM
Quote from: playtime;800286shocking money on the options above. I would have thought the all alloy 4litre v8 lexus engine with a eaton jag supercharger and an aftermarket ecu, would be a considerably cheaper option, going by the price of the couple lexus Ive seen last wee while. Only my opinion though.......

I did consider the 4L Lexus V8 at the time but there were hidden costs involved. Such as conversion to manual GBX, fitting kits? The physical size as it\'s got overhead cams it\'s wide at the top. Plus they are around 100 BHP at least down on the LSx to start with.
 
So yes a DIY conversion with a an SC might bring it up to similar power to a stock LSx engine but it does add complication. After 15 years of forced induction I was after a change back to NA.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: playtime on November 28, 2011, 07:11:06 PM
Don\'t get me wrong, I hear what you\'re saying, as I would love a ls3 engined fd, but when my rotary blows, my wallet will unfortunately be making me looking at cheaper alloy engine options :( The lexus or possibly a supercharged jag alloy v8 already on a manual box, will prob be my way foward................
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: turbo boy on November 28, 2011, 09:02:49 PM
You know it makes sence. The problem with this thread is there are alot of rotards defending the feeble rotary engine and comparing its reliability with highly strung skyline/evo motors and not an n/a standard 6ltr v8. Pathetic hahahaha:Giggle:Giggle
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Will66 on November 28, 2011, 09:51:46 PM
Rotards?

How to win friends and influence people on the Mazda ROTARY Club\'s forum!
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: bmatharu on November 28, 2011, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: turbo boy;800533You know it makes sence. The problem with this thread is there are alot of rotards defending the feeble rotary engine and comparing its reliability with highly strung skyline/evo motors and not an n/a standard 6ltr v8. Pathetic hahahaha:Giggle:Giggle

Surely because it\'s only fair to compare turbo engines with turbo engines? A high displacement N/A V8 has significantly less strain on its internals..asking a lot less of the engine stress wise.

I love high displacement piston engines, I just think they belong in more appropriate places than an FD engine bay.

And with uprated seals and the power that people like Powergains are producing from 2 rotor engines, both the power and reliability side of the rotary engine are improving. After all it is a \'niche\' technology with a fraction of the initial and aftermarket development investment that piston engines receive.

Will be interesting to see where this goes in the future! If I had the capability I would love to have a 2 rotor turbo, 3 rotor N/A and a V8 FD...got the first, and if the world is kind beyond belief then maybe I may get further along that mini list :mmmm
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on November 28, 2011, 11:14:06 PM
Just imagine the possibilities of the rotary engine if it had seen the same development as piston engines! They would most definately rule all types of racing.

Carbon fibre ceramic coated rotors anyone? 1-20,000rpm in an instant.
Title: V8 Rx7
Post by: iaint on November 29, 2011, 09:54:35 AM
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;800565Carbon fibre ceramic coated rotors anyone? 1-20,000rpm in an instant.

...*drool*