Sorry to ask but im looking to see if theres anything im missing here.
Installed my 850cc in the primarys after milling 3.1mm off the rail.
Started the car up from cold and was idling at 11.8-12 which i expected as its cold and i just reset the power fc.
Before starting the power fc i set the ecu up for the bigger injectors.
FR-PR %63.0 +0.04
FR-SC------- +0.00
RR-PR %63.0 +0.04
RR-SC------- +0.00
PR 850cc
SC 850cc
now the engine warmed up and its sitting at 11.2-11.4 on idle.
Tried to change the INJ map.......didnt make any difference
Tried to change the PIM voltage..didnt make any difference
Tried to change the inj lag to 0.40..didnt make any difference
Is there anything im missing here, i know im not gonna get the same idle as 550cc but was expecting high 12s to low 13s from what people were saying.
the inj duty at idle wont go below 4.9% is that the lowest it will go down to?
I have done some research but wondered if anyone on here could chime in and help
maybe 4.9 is the lowest the pfc can acurately control before the injector control becomes unreliable
wont lowering the base map help as the inj map is a very small correction,
Where did you find your set up figures to run the 850cc`s
i know blitzboys pretty good with injectors
actually running minus lag helped in the end, im now running -0.30 which gives me 12.9-13.4 afr idle, been running around for a few days with this setup and seems decent enough.
This is with 3.9-4.1% injector duty at idle
I have since then tuned alot of my map at 1bar of boost, but now having issues with getting the second turbo to work all the time, for some reason it works when it feels like it, for some reason it sounds like when the second turbo opens up the BOV opens and lets the pressure out :S
Its a pain how you think youve fixed one thing and end uip with a completely different headache,well done with the initial fix though
maybe since youve got a bit more power and boost from it the bov spring isnt holding properly,
have you tried running with the bov removed,
sounds a bit simple but may just need the bov spring tightened
unless of course its fixed,
i know, its an ongoing battle it seems, will be nice when i finally go single turbo as ill have none of these silly issues.
bit more fiddling on the map means 13.2-13.5afr on idle now, i think thats the leanest ill get it unless i discover something else new.
well did some testing the other day, blocked the vaccum pipe going to the bov and as soon as it went to 0.3bar on the first turbo the bov opened and let all the pressure out.
so went back to before, tried blocking off the vac pipe to the other bov(at back of engine) as i know that is used in the transition and got no second turbo at all.
If it just didnt work at all i could assume that i have a broken solenoid or that i have connected something up wrong when putting the rats next back in, with it being intermitant it could either be split pipe or dodgy solenoid i would have thought.
Its raining hard today so ill just have to have a think and stare at the ac diagrams in hope again
Quote from: turbotoaster;702400Sorry to ask but im looking to see if theres anything im missing here.
Installed my 850cc in the primarys after milling 3.1mm off the rail.
Started the car up from cold and was idling at 11.8-12 which i expected as its cold and i just reset the power fc.
Before starting the power fc i set the ecu up for the bigger injectors.
FR-PR %63.0 +0.04
FR-SC------- +0.00
RR-PR %63.0 +0.04
RR-SC------- +0.00
PR 850cc
SC 850cc
now the engine warmed up and its sitting at 11.2-11.4 on idle.
Tried to change the INJ map.......didnt make any difference
Tried to change the PIM voltage..didnt make any difference
Tried to change the inj lag to 0.40..didnt make any difference
Is there anything im missing here, i know im not gonna get the same idle as 550cc but was expecting high 12s to low 13s from what people were saying.
the inj duty at idle wont go below 4.9% is that the lowest it will go down to?
I have done some research but wondered if anyone on here could chime in and help
Hi mate. Got a quick question for you. After you milled 0ff 3.1mm did you find your injectors didnt sit flush. Thus the need to counter sink it?
Cheers Adam
i didnt bother counter sinking as the injectors fitted fine after, you may want to if that floats your boat but hasnt made any difference to mine not doing it so personally u wouldnt bother.
Ok cheers mate. Mine needs counter sinking as the injectors dont sit flush with the rail. Just wondered if yours was the same.
Cheers Adam
I countersunk mine too as found the same thing and didn\'t seat properly... Have removed them from the car and back running 550\'s for the time being as getting them cleaned/flow tested with another set so they\'re balanced as something wasn\'t right....
Worth getting them done before you put them in the car mate :)
looking at other peoples pics of the rail once its been machined it looks like ive taken more off than they did so maybe thats the difference, i just took 3.1mm off with the miller, so maybe other people took less off im not sure
Quote from: SmbFD3S;704586I countersunk mine too as found the same thing and didn\'t seat properly... Have removed them from the car and back running 550\'s for the time being as getting them cleaned/flow tested with another set so they\'re balanced as something wasn\'t right....
Worth getting them done before you put them in the car mate :)
Did yours sit like this pre counter sinking them?
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m256/pigeon_07/29102009098.jpg)
Quote from: turbotoaster;704593looking at other peoples pics of the rail once its been machined it looks like ive taken more off than they did so maybe thats the difference, i just took 3.1mm off with the miller, so maybe other people took less off im not sure
I did the same as you mate. Took 3.1mm off. I shall just counter sink it so they sit flush.
How the a/r going?
yeh strangly enough i could sit them flush and bolt the cover over without there being any gaps, i was unaware there was an issue for some people until i read about it.
by a/r do you mean air ratio, ie fueling?
If so then im running in the low 70% inj duty range, mid 13s idle, low 14s cruise and mid 11s full boost.
When i get a chance to hop on the motorway in the future ill work on my motorway map and get it to around low 15s for fuel economy.
If you on about something else let me know lol
Can\'t honestly remember mate, but i just copied the original rail and just chamfered the edges until it seated and i was happy with it...
To be honest as long as the top and bottom O rings are seated thats all that matters.
Quote from: pigeon;705044Did yours sit like this pre counter sinking them?
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m256/pigeon_07/29102009098.jpg)
hi, when i did mine i took of a straight 2mm as instructed by pip at wgt, fitted them and he tuned it all up. never had any issues. jon.
Quote from: turbotoaster;705051yeh strangly enough i could sit them flush and bolt the cover over without there being any gaps, i was unaware there was an issue for some people until i read about it.
by a/r do you mean air ratio, ie fueling?
If so then im running in the low 70% inj duty range, mid 13s idle, low 14s cruise and mid 11s full boost.
When i get a chance to hop on the motorway in the future ill work on my motorway map and get it to around low 15s for fuel economy.
If you on about something else let me know lol
Yeah i was on about your air fuel ratio. just wondered if you had got your idle air fuel ratio better.
you wont really get it much better than that with bigger primarys, i could add even more minus lag into it but dont think i really need to as im down to 3.8% inj duty at idle and dont know of anyone who has gone lower.
What have you got your idle afrs like?
I dont have the 850\'s in yet mate. And i shall leave the fiddling of the tune to someone who knows what they are doing. I dont have the confidence to do it myself.
Just wondered what yours were like with the 850\'s
well if you want any advice for setting them up before you take it to be mapped im more than happy to help.
i spent a little bit of time tuning with stock primarys before i fitted the 850cc so i had some experience which helped alot but anyone can map a car, i was expecting it to be much harder than it was.
My car seems to like 14.0-14.1afr idle the best but i cant quite get it that close with 850cc but close enough that it will be fine.
tuning on 550cc is easy because the basemap isnt far off in terms of fueling for cruise and boost, just needed a bit of tweaking.
But because you have to add alot of lag for the 850cc it means pretty much your entire fuel map is wrong, this has taken me a bit of time to get right because im tuning purely off the commander.
id recommend them for a cheap fuel upgrade, they cost me £30 plus £10 for someone to machine my rail as i dont own a milling machine anymore.
Assuming your pump can cope, having fuelling up to 420-430bhp for that money is very good value, enough to cover you all the time your on twins.
The only issue i can think off with this is if you are decatted, you wont be able to get your idle lean enough to pass an MOT, ive left my cat in the shed so when i go for my MOT next year ill stick it back on and see if it will let me pass
Are you running with a resistor ? I\'ve chucked a FJO injector driver and haven\'t really had a problem although pip did map it !
Shaun
nope, no resistors, just plugged everything back together and started it up.
Its a shame its so uncommon to have e85 fuel over here, be great running 850cc with them as you could get a lovely lean idle with that stuff.
When i go single i know i will have to pretty much change all of the map so ill try and get it to 14.0 on idle but im gonna run alot more fuel pressure so that might be difficult
Quote from: shaunwil;705495Are you running with a resistor ? I\'ve chucked a FJO injector driver and haven\'t really had a problem although pip did map it !
Shaun
Didn\'t and am not running a resistor with mine also, but i\'ve not worked on the map quite as hard as turbotoaster has to be honest... Whats the advantages of the resistor ?
Quote from: turbotoaster;705474well if you want any advice for setting them up before you take it to be mapped im more than happy to help.
i spent a little bit of time tuning with stock primarys before i fitted the 850cc so i had some experience which helped alot but anyone can map a car, i was expecting it to be much harder than it was.
My car seems to like 14.0-14.1afr idle the best but i cant quite get it that close with 850cc but close enough that it will be fine.
tuning on 550cc is easy because the basemap isnt far off in terms of fueling for cruise and boost, just needed a bit of tweaking.
But because you have to add alot of lag for the 850cc it means pretty much your entire fuel map is wrong, this has taken me a bit of time to get right because im tuning purely off the commander.
id recommend them for a cheap fuel upgrade, they cost me £30 plus £10 for someone to machine my rail as i dont own a milling machine anymore.
Assuming your pump can cope, having fuelling up to 420-430bhp for that money is very good value, enough to cover you all the time your on twins.
The only issue i can think off with this is if you are decatted, you wont be able to get your idle lean enough to pass an MOT, ive left my cat in the shed so when i go for my MOT next year ill stick it back on and see if it will let me pass
Sweet cheers dude. Thats really kind of you :) Im in the motions of soucing some parts and once i have everything it will all be going in together then off for mapping. would be nice to have some advice on setting up the 850\'s for the drive to the mapper though.
Cheers Buddy.
Adam
Just putting mine back in now, so in about 3 hours time when all the rats nest is back i may take you up on the offer aswell as although i\'ve had them in before it was never right lol and would be nice not to use a tank of fuel when idling :) as i could never get it to idle at more than 10.4 AFR....
i dont mind helping anyone with it :)
But smbfd3s, before you start the car, do a free air reset on your wideband so we defo have the right afr figures on the gauge before we start.
You mentioned that you were running in the 9s in boost, most ignition systems would struggle to fire properly when they are that rich which makes me think your wideband is a little off......rather safe than sorry :)
unscrew the lambda sensor out of the exhaust when you do it so you get a proper base reading, being the exhaust even when the car is off screws with the readings unless its been left off for about a week
When your ready to go let me know and ill guide you through it, thats the same for you adam, ill help whether you have a wideband or not
Cheers matey, will get to it tonight hopefully.
Firstly, have already done a free air reset cos i\'m of the same opinion as you on the wideband so thats all done :)
Secondly, what were you doing up at half 2 in the morning lol :)
Anyways, got a small fuel leak so will have to sort out that out first then i\'ll be on it :)
Cheers
Scott
Well yesterday was my first day at my new job so i was knackered and went sleep at 8pm, woke up at 2am and couldnt go back sleep hence being on here.
Give me a shout before you first start it so we can get a rough base on it before we do some more adjustments