As some of you already know, I’ve just bought an Elford Turbo setup which I intend to put into my 1984 series 3 RX7 and I thought I would start a thread about it.
I would have preferred to have bought a complete car for the parts but non are currently available so I bought the parts instead.
This leaves me with a few mysteries and problems to overcome.
I will need plenty of help and advice to do this install……
I have nothing to refer to for the throttle and choke linkages, fuel lines, engine and ignition wiring.
Elford Turbo Ltd ( ETL)are now long gone and as only around 500 or so conversions were ever done back in the 80’s, finding any information on the install will be a bit of a challenge.
As far as I know, there aren’t any diagrams or manuals showing how the conversion was done.
The only literature that I can find so far are a few old road tests and this old sales brochure...plus a price list.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elf2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elf3a.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elf1a.jpg)
I hope by starting this thread I will be able to pull together any information or advice anyone else can offer and also create a useful record of how it all went together to help anyone else wanting to do this conversion.
If anyone has any pictures of engine bays showing this conversion, please post up a copy, likewise any other info you come across which might help me.
I’ve been reading Albans thread about his gold car but as that was initially an Elford, he had a bit of a head start!.....
This conversion is starting from scratch!
THE CAR
Here’s the car it’s going into…. A 1984 ‘A’ reg series 3 currently running the standard unmodified 12a engine…
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/nfx10.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/nfx3.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF0447.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF0446.jpg)
The car is completely standard with the exception of :
1. The exhaust which is a stainless ‘double s’ system from the engine to the back box which is the stock Mazda back box. The headers are also part of this after market system. The air pump and associated junk are long gone.
2. The car is currently running twin electric fans from a 1994 Toyota MR2 MK2 in place of the standard viscous fan.
The car runs fine in it’s current setup.
THE ELFORD PARTS
I bought these parts off Ebay last week and got:
12a Mazda engine with the full ETL conversion fitted to it.
Series 2 gearbox
Propshaft
Radiator
Oil Cooler
Control module
Assorted bits of the wiring loom inc coils
Elford stainless exhaust
Standard Mazda back box ( which Elford used )
The story…
The seller stated that he bought a white Elford RX7 some years back and as it was terminally rusty, he broke it for parts.
He stated that he hadn’t had it running but had been told that the engine had recently been rebuilt and had hardly been run since although he happily stated that he hadn’t got any paperwork to back that up.
I must have heard that story about 100 times over the last 30 years!
I only wanted the Elford bits so it the fact it came with a full engine that may or may not be ok was a just a bonus really.
The engine in my car is excellent and so I intend to swap the ETL parts over onto that.
I’m therefore starting with an engine known to be good so any running problems, shouldn’t be down to faults within the engine.
The seller also had the bodykit but:
it was buried in the depths of his storage shed so I couldn’t get to see it
He described it as having a lot of damage and needing a great deal of repairs
I’m still in the market for the Elford front and rear spoilers if anyone knows to any that may be for sale, plus the rear badge!
SUSSING OUT THE PARTS…
THE INDUCTION / TURBO
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elft2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elft1.jpg)
When I got the parts home I decided to 1st remove the whole turbo setup from the engine. I took plenty of photos to show where the oil and vacuum lines went and then unbolted the whole thing from the engine.
It came off as a complete unit and I then separated the various parts on the bench to clean them up.
The carb, a HIF44 SU, is seized and will need a rebuild.
The turbo, a Garrett AI Research, and the compressor spins freely, hopefully they will be ok.
I cleaned the manifolds up and put all the parts to one side for the time being whilst I checked out everything else.
ENGINE
I’d already decided that using my own engine was the way to go
ETL used the standard 12a engine, same rotors and compression but modified the sump to incorporate a separator on the oil return line to remove any air and froth from the oil before it went back into the sump.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elfsump2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elfsump1.jpg)
My first thought was to just swap the sump onto my engine whilst it was still in the car but after asking for advice on both forums, I’ve decided to lift the engine out and do it on the bench.
The exhaust, fuel lines and linkages need to be changed anyway plus my clutch release bearing is noisy so I might as well take the engine out and do that at the same time.
It’ll also be easier to put the manifolds back on and connect up the lines with the engine out of the car.
GEARBOX
I’ll be using my own existing gearbox, not this series 2 box.
Mines good, it fits my clutch etc and I can’t see any advantage in swapping them.
EXHAUST
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elfex1.jpg)
ETL used stainless from the manifold to the back axle to cope with the extra heat from the turbo but used the stock factory backbox.
The exhaust is in fine condition and just needs a coat of VHT paint.
PROPSHAFT & RADIATOR
Both ok but not needed for this project.
OIL COOLER
Scrap…. Dropped to bits as I picked it up. Does a 2nd gen cooler fit?
I want to lose the ‘beehive’ cooler and go to a front mounted one but I’m currently running a full depth series 3 radiator which I want to keep.
What do you reckon?
CONTROL MODULE
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/module1.jpg)
I took the cover off the Micro Dynamics control module to make sure it hadn’t suffered from water ingress and fried and it looks sound as.
It the date 14.08.10 written inside it, I presume from when it was made, so that gives some idea of the age of the parts.
LOOM
Loads of bits of wire taped together that I haven’t had chance to look at yet!
That’s about it for starters…..
If anyone has any info to help… please post it up or email me through my website.
I\'ll post this thread up on a couple of forums to try to get as much help as possible.
Cheers,
Ian
1st question already!
These are pictures of the exhaust ports on a spare engine I\'ve got in the garage. This engine was running a \'Double S\' stainless system and headers...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/standardeng1.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/standardeng2.jpg)
Now these pictures are of the exhaust ports on the Elford engine...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elfports1.jpg)
The rear rotor port has an insert like this...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elfrearrotor1.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elfrearrotor2.jpg)
and the front rotor has an insert like this...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elffrontrotor1.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Elford%20turbo%20pics/elffrontrotor2.jpg)
Questions are:
Are these inserts standard 12a inserts or specific to the Elford engine?
Why are they different between the 2 ports?
Ive got two engines at work, I will have a look at the ports.
Do you need an engine crane to get the lump out? Give me a shout if you do.
P.S When you have sussed everything you can tell me how its done :D
Cheers, I\'ll take you up on that, I\'m going to get it all ready 1st then hopefully do the job over a weekend. I\'ve got to get the wheels on my project car 1st to get out out from over the pit.
http://pdfninja.com/Mazda/Mazda-RX-7-Gold-Portfolio-1978-1991.html
Dont Know if this book will help you.
Keith.
Are you going to use a paper or liquid gasket when you put the sump back on. I would go for paper if you can due to the first one on my 13b leaked more oil than a rig in the gulf. Once I changed to paper,no problems
Yeah, I\'ll be using a paper gasket. In the past I\'ve used blue Hylomar but never on a rotary.... the workshop manual says use \'silicon\'? as well as the gasket...
do you use silicon Brian?
I did have an engine built that use silicon and it leaked. I lifted the engine in the engine bay 2 twice more and it leaked again. There is only one place for that stuff now and thats on the front of a woman. Paper gasket every time for me
Is there any difference between RX7 12A engine \'blocks\'?
I thought all 12a rx7 blocks were the same and that all emission stuff was just bolt on.
My Elford block has 1 hole below the exhaust ports...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/el01.jpg)
but my other block has 2 of them...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/el02.jpg)
The elford manifold doesn\'t look like it makes use of either of them...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/el03.jpg)
I\'ve no idea how old either of these engines are .... were they different between s1,2 & 3 cars or different btw different markets?
I\'m trying to get my head around these exhaust port inserts... do I just leave them out altogether or swap them into my engine?
I\'m tempted to leave them out... surely the more flow into the turbo manifold, the better?
Oh bo**ox, I forgot to look at the engines I have at work.
Will have a look tomorrow to see if they are the same.
Im not sure about the ports, they may smooth and direct the flow making things better. Its only 4 bolts you could do a before and after test.
Interesting to see some old skool turbo ideas, nice heatshield on the turbine.
Eventually got my spare engines out at work today and the exhaust ports are different on both engines and neither match yours Ian. How many different types are there I wonder, and why ???
I think I\'m right in saying that later 12A blocks had different exhaust ports as a noise reduction measure.
Also-are you certain that all your blocks came out of RX7\'s? Now I\'m just chucking ideas about here so anyone feel free to administer a flaming-I can take it.:D
so anyone feel free to administer a flaming-I can take it.:D[/quote]
:flamed :evillaugh
ta stu..
yeesh it\'s getting hot in here
Another answer is the 2nd gen cooler will go into the 1st gen in front of the radiator. Good condition ones are hard to find though !
Have you done any searches on rx7club or ausrotary ? They have quite large 1st gen following.
Shaun
Quote from: shaunwil;702566Another answer is the 2nd gen cooler will go into the 1st gen in front of the radiator. Good condition ones are hard to find though !
Shaun
Thanks, I\'ll just get a generic oil cooler to put in if I don\'t drop on a Mazda one.
Quote from: captainbizzaro;702488I think I\'m right in saying that later 12A blocks had different exhaust ports as a noise reduction measure.
Also-are you certain that all your blocks came out of RX7\'s?
Consensus of opinion seems to be that the inserts differed between engines due to emissions. Why engines for the UK market would have vary from each other though I can\'t work out. Fair enough if UK engines were different from say, US or Aus or JDM engines.
Noise reduction is another reason put forward and probably has some thing to do with it.
The 12a engines are now so old that it\'s very difficult to trace their origin.
Quote from: Ian65;702655Thanks, I\'ll just get a generic oil cooler to put in if I don\'t drop on a Mazda one.
Make sure you get one of large enough cooling capacity. The 2nd gen cooler is big.
Shaun
The original Elford conversion used the s1 and s2 factory oil cooler so as long as I get one that\'s similar to that, I should be ok....I think!
dont worry about the extra exhaust ports i had an elford kit on my s3 and it was fine, dump the etl ignition control guff and get a 12a turbo dizzy, i got mine from Tim at rx motors, it was a lot more reliable, the draw through carb is ace, no lag!
Quote from: borgue;702686dont worry about the extra exhaust ports i had an elford kit on my s3 and it was fine, dump the etl ignition control guff and get a 12a turbo dizzy, i got mine from Tim at rx motors, it was a lot more reliable, the draw through carb is ace, no lag!
cheers for that...
if i dump the Elford control module, how do I prevent detonation which is the function of the ETL electronics. I read that the module limits the revs and knocks out the trailing plugs if the wastegate fails to limit the boost.
Does the 12A turbo dizzy do that automatically?
I\'m trying to get my head around the wiring side of things...
i struggled to find much tec info on the etl module, the 12a turbo dizzy retards the ignition by 5 degrees of the top of my head and the wiring is non existant as the dizzy is mechanical and vac based. i ran between 6psi (stock) and 14 psi (mega fun) but that required other upgrades. i found some of the etl stuff over complicated and simplified it.
depends if you wanna keep it origional i guess? but im just saying what worked for me.
as for the boost cut im not sure, i just had a discretly mounted boost gauge to moniter it myself, again simpler.
i will try to find some pics and reference stuff.
Ollie
Quote from: borgue;702693i struggled to find much tec info on the etl module, the 12a turbo dizzy retards the ignition by 5 degrees of the top of my head and the wiring is non existant as the dizzy is mechanical and vac based. i ran between 6psi (stock) and 14 psi (mega fun) but that required other upgrades. i found some of the etl stuff over complicated and simplified it.
depends if you wanna keep it origional i guess? but im just saying what worked for me.
as for the bost cut im not sure, i just had a discretly mounted boost gauge to moniter it myself, again simpler.
i will try to find some pics and reference stuff.
Ollie
Cheers Ollie, any pics or info would be a fantastic help. I\'m more concerned about reliability than originality, if that means losing the ETL module, so be it.
thats how i felt!
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=528022&highlight=elford+turbo
give that a go, some info, some pics.
the velocity stack on the carb made a big difference, really responsive.
just watch your oil temps, i had a trubo 2 oil cooler and with a prolonged beating the oil temp would creep up, as the turbo is oil cooled.
i found ducting some high pressure air to the heat shunt made a difference.
Ollie
Quote from: borgue;702703http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=528022&highlight=elford+turbo
give that a go, some info, some pics.
the velocity stack on the carb made a big difference, really responsive.
just watch your oil temps, i had a trubo 2 oil cooler and with a prolonged beating the oil temp would creep up, as the turbo is oil cooled.
i found ducting some high pressure air to the heat shunt made a difference.
Ollie
FOR OLLIE:-
Just off post for a minute,sure Ian won\'t mind. Would you be able to let me know what happened to your 1st Gen Borque? Was it scrapped? I think I know the Reg and colour of the car you had but I would like to know for definite to make sure it\'s in the right place on my Register. i.e scrapped and not running on somewhere.
You can mail me on dgnock at btopenworld dot com
Thanks Dave.
Back to the Elford Fitting.....
yer sure, the shell was scrapped, due to rust. it was silver. cant remember the reg.
am the current owner of A220 PBW.
Ollie
No Probs Matey...Thanks for that.
one of these would be a nice touch if:
a) I could find one
b) swap out the km/h speedo for mp/h
A factory built-in boost gauge out of a 12a Savanna Turbo
I didn\'t know there was such a thing.
.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/rimg0267ls4.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/rimg0272em2.jpg)
.
Now one of those would be great on your conversion, youve gotta get one. Ive never seen one before is it an aftermarket job or was it original for the jap market?
You only need the rev counter.
Quote from: myatt1972;706256Now one of those would be great on your conversion, youve gotta get one. Ive never seen one before is it an aftermarket job or was it original for the jap market?
You only need the rev counter.
it was factory fitted to the jap market 12a RX7 Savanna turbo, I\'ve never seen it before either.
Those 12at factory cars were nice... adjustable shocks, nice seats, fuel injection etc.... not as powerful as an Elford though apparently.
There\'s a nice one here in NZ...
http://www.oldschool.co.nz/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23431
Will I get flamed as an old Farxt if I comment that the voltmeter\'s gone? :flamed
Quote from: David Nock;706267Will I get flamed as an old Farxt if I comment that the voltmeter\'s gone? :flamed
Probably!!
I wonder where it went though? Perhaps they ditched it altogether.
I know i\'d rather watch that boost going up than the volts going down!
Quote from: David Nock;706267Will I get flamed as an old Farxt if I comment that the voltmeter\'s gone? :flamed
Never flame a fart, the results can be explosive!
That is sexy
bought a rebuild kit for the carb this week, Burlen Fuel Systems who own SU still list the Elford on their system...
http://www.sucarb.co.uk/CarbEssentials.aspx?ProductId=10543
It used the HIF44 SU, same as the MG Metro Turbo.
Opened my carb up and the old fuel has solidified like rock hard varnish. Carb cleaner hardly touches it.
A guy I know who rebuilds Dellortos professionally always uses cellulose thinners to clean the carb bodys....
anyone got any other ideas????
.
Quote from: Ian65;709093bought a rebuild kit for the carb this week, Burlen Fuel Systems who own SU still list the Elford on their system...
http://www.sucarb.co.uk/CarbEssentials.aspx?ProductId=10543
It used the HIF44 SU, same as the MG Metro Turbo.
Opened my carb up and the old fuel has solidified like rock hard varnish. Carb cleaner hardly touches it.
A guy I know who rebuilds Dellortos professionally always uses cellulose thinners to clean the carb bodys....
anyone got any other ideas????
.
all done.... what a complete b**tch of a job that turned out to be.
Took me all day to strip it, clean it and then rebuild it.
The instructions and diagrams that came with the rebuild kit were rubbish and a nightmare to follow.
As it was a standard HIF 44 SU carb that was adapted for use with a turbo, certain seals had to be reversed, nothing was labeled, it was a rebuild kit which included the parts for 2 slightly different carbs and so I ended up with a pile of bits that I didn\'t need..... nice of SU to let me know before hand.
Anyway, it\'s sorted now and ready to go on the car so I\'m a step nearer to doing the conversion.
I\'ll put a straightforward description of this carb rebuild on my website in case anyone else ends up doing it sometime.
A few pictures...
The \'Beadles About\' style prank, otherwise known as the SU HIF44 rebuild kit...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/carbbits.jpg)
The stripped carb body...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/carbbody.jpg)
The challenge as completed...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/carb1.jpg)
Think I\'ll go and cut the grass and calm down!
.
Dont worry about doing a write up, I will just give you mine to do !!!
That looked like fun!
fun it ain\'t!
This picture shows a bit better all the seals and bits.... like a jigsaw puzzle with no picture on the box.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/Image-3837_original.jpg)
wow nice job! looks like a total nightmare :(
Not as nice as a new Nikki carb,
(http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss30/d_i_ball/Image0022.jpg)
(http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss30/d_i_ball/Image0019.jpg)
Grrrrrr........:Hammer
Looks extremely nice ! Very good job indeed :D
Shaun
I was going to put this conversion off until the spring but after my clutch woes last week, I decided that if I\'d got to take the gearbox out, I might as well get on with it.
I started off today by labelling everthing up...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/labels.jpg)
and then dropped the bonnet off ready to lift the engine...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/bonnetoff.jpg)
after disconnecting everything and undoing the engine mounts I lifted the engine out...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/eng1.jpg)
the empty bay waiting for the turbocharged engine...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en5.jpg)
the complete 12a...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en3.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en4.jpg)
stripped off the inlet, emission control junk & beehive oil cooler, non of which is needed and gave the engine a clean up...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en6.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en7.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en8.jpg)
then took the standard sump off ready to fit the modified Elford sump...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/en9.jpg)
Just waiting for some gaskets and the clutch pinion bearing and seal to arrive then I can put the clutch on, fit the gearbox and bolt up the turbo.
Nice one Ian, up and running next weekend :2eek
I know this subject has been done to death but what are you sealing your sump with? Good to see you getting underway-we all new you wouldn\'t be able to wait till spring....:Giggle
Quote from: captainbizzaro;720324I know this subject has been done to death but what are you sealing your sump with?
There are so many different views on this that it\'s difficult to know what to do. I\'ve read loads of threads from all other the world and no one has the definitive answer. Most guys on RX7club.com wouldn\'t touch a gasket and bond them with RTV silicon, whereas most of the advice I\'ve had on here is to use some sort of gasket.
My engine had the sump bonded on with silicon and didn\'t have any leaks but elford had used a gasket to seal their sump. I decided therefore, to use a gasket as I was putting the elford sump onto my engine.
This plan went out of the window this morning when I went to fit the sump.
I started to clean it up and found a pinhole in the bottom of the sump where it had been grounded at some point. I had 2 choices:
1. Weld up the elford sump
2. Use my existing sump and fit the oil return to it.
Rather than drag the mig out, I took some measurements, put a tank cutter through the side of the sump and then installed the oil return to my existing sump. As this sump was originally bonded and sealed using silicon only, I went down this route again... no gasket, just cleaned the mating surfaces over and over again with brake cleaner and then bonded it up.
I put 2 beads of silicon around the bottom of the engine, one inside the bolt holes and the other outside the bolt holes. I then put the pan into place and put a dab of silicon into each bolt hole then put the bolts in, going round the pan slowly tightening them until I finished off torquing them up to the factory spec.
I\'m pretty confident it will be ok but we won\'t know until its all up and running.
Ok cool cheers Ian, there was no gasket on the sump I removed today just sealant so I think I will do the same as you.
I\'ve come to a bit of a stop on this at the moment as I\'m waiting for parts to arrive so thought I\'d sand down my Elford rear spoiler to get it ready for paint.
I\'m thinking of cutting a slot in the back of it and setting in a LED strip brake light as standard equipment these days on many modern cars.
I thought in this postion...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/esp2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/esp1.jpg)
unsure about the width yet but thought around 60cm, flush fitting...
The underside of the fibreglass spoiler is hollow so should accomodate a light easily enough...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/esp3.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/esp4.jpg)
this gives a rough idea of how it will look but a lot lower as this is sitting on top of the factory rubber spoiler at the moment and will be painted metallic black to match the car...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/esp5.jpg)
I\'m undecided at present. Will it be a worthwhile safety feature and update the look of the rear of the car.... or will it just look naff and should I leave it alone.
Obviously, these things weren\'t available back in the day so weren\'t fitted but is it a good idea to put one in now or not?
What do you reckon?
I\'m all for originality, but as this is hybrid I think it would be ok.
Good luck
Dibs
I think that would look okay-is there a trim on the light which would cover the cut thats the only thing that might make it look a bit nasty if you can see the cut line.
I could use one with a trim but was thinking of using one that finished flush with the outside of the spoiler and the cut edge of the fibreglass would be sanded and painted so wouldn\'t be seen by the time the led strip was in.
Yeah I see what you\'re saying, that\'d be cool.
I\'m thinking of using the led out of this spoiler...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/33.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/22.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/11.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/44.jpg)
it\'s available pretty cheap.
What do you guys think? Is it too narrow, too wide, etc, etc...???
Well it\'s roughly the same length as the number plate so I reckon that\'d look good. How does it mount then?
Very nice work Ian, it\'s coming along really well.
I agree with Dibs mate, all for originallity but as this is so called retro build if think it would take it. I like the sleakness of the LED unit and think it would be look quite cool.
I agree, I like my cars to look as original as possible, I think the original design was so good, after market add-ons look out of place and can spoil the look of the car.
Having said that, I\'m all for updating to modern technology that wasn\'t available 30 years ago.
I like the idea of the led brake light as it will be discreet and I imagine Elford would maybe have included one themselves had it been available back in 1983
The more I look at it Ian the nicer it is - go for it mate with a big YES.
:yes
My gaskets and the pilot bearing and seal have arrived today so I\'ll put the part numbers up. They might help someone else ordering some as they are standard to all 1st gens and they are all genuine Mazda with Mazda part numbers...
The inlet manifold gasket...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/inletgasket.jpg)
The exhaust manifold gasket...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/exhaustgasket.jpg)
Clutch pilot bearing...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/pb.jpg)
Pilot bearing seal...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/pboilseal.jpg)
I can finally put the engine back in and get the car back together.
Pity the weathers turned nasty!
Where did you source these from Ian? From Mazda direct?
Quote from: captainbizzaro;722271Where did you source these from Ian? From Mazda direct?
Got them from RX Motors
Aaah right cheers
Good infor there Ian - ta.
:cheers
at last, some progress...
got the pilot bearing in tonight and the new clutch bolted up...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/clutch1.jpg)
Hopefully should be able to bolt up the gearbox and put the turbo on tomorrow evening and then lift it all back into the car on Saturday.
Is this the 30 something £ kit or the more expensive 225mm unit?
this is the 215mm clutch that I bought for £35 off ebay
What did you use for an alignement tool Ian?
Quote from: CHC;722504What did you use for an alignement tool Ian?
I borrowed this off Keith...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/coip.jpg)
It made the job a piece of cake...
He mentioned it here...
http://mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67002
.
Will that fit my S4 clutch?
I remembered Keith saying that he cut the section off a scrapper and made the alignment tool, that was why I asked.
Had a disappointing day on this project today...
We had heavy rain showers all day which stopped me working outside to get the engine back in and then I found a problem with my replacement gearbox that I had to fix.
Started off well...
bolted the inlet onto the engine...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/inlet.jpg)
painted my bargain £15 series 2 oil cooler and put the insulating foam around it...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/oilcooler.jpg)
put the clutch fork and new release bearing into the bellhousing...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/releaseb.jpg)
but then.... put the gear lever in and found that the return spring was damaged which meant that the lever flapped about and didn\'t centre back to the neutral position. I knew this would drive me mad when driving the car so it had to be fixed.
I had to take the selector housing apart and remove the various components...
In the following pic, the selector block on the right has the good spring and the left hand one had the damaged one...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/selspring.jpg)
I then cleaned up the housing and all the bits...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/ext.jpg)
and put it all back together with new silicon grease...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/greasedsel.jpg)
Gear lever feels great now, nice and tight.
So not a completely wasted day.
As you say, at least you have made progress.
You did well with the S2 oil cooler mate, I remember with my SA back in the 80\'s they weren\'t readily available to buy and as they were made of aluminium they were a swine to repair when damaged - mine was repaired by a coded welder @ Shell Stanlow workshops. £15 - wow a definite bargain there.
got my turbo ready to go on too....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/turbo2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/turbo1.jpg)
.
What paint did you use to do that?
VHT i guess?
& that was a waisted day!
I used the highest rated VHT spray I could buy off the shelf. I don\'t suppose it\'ll last long on something that gets hot enough to glow at night, but, what the hell, it looks great now!
I read somewhere that the Elford Turbo can glow cherry red when the cars had a good thrash.... so nothing will stand up to that kind of heat.
Hmmm,i once spayed a crapri manifold with green vht,lasted approx 2 months,surprising with a mighty 74bhp.
Quote from: Ian65;722728I used the highest rated VHT spray I could buy off the shelf. I don\'t suppose it\'ll last long on something that gets hot enough to glow at night, but, what the hell, it looks great now!
I read somewhere that the Elford Turbo can glow cherry red when the cars had a good thrash.... so nothing will stand up to that kind of heat.
But will it glow cherry red,i saw a post of yours you like to take things at a sedate pace!:rolleyes:
At what rpm does the elford turbo kick in?
I\'ve used VHT on n/a manifolds for years and never had a problem.... depends i suppose on the temp rating of the paint, not that it would make much difference on a turbo.
Quote from: syebba;722731But will it glow cherry red,i saw a post of yours you like to take things at a sedate pace!:rolleyes:
At what rpm does the elford turbo kick in?
I dunno, I\'ll not be going over 2000 revs in case the turbo kicks in and burns my paint off it!
Ha, well looks great now anyhow.
Long time ago now,but i remember thinking my car was gonna catch fire on 1st start up with vht paint,the smoke coming off it,it said on the aerosol that was normal & part of the curing/hardening process.
A lot of the high temperature coatings require heat treatment for the applied coating to cure so it would be reasonable for fumes and sometimes smoke of some degree to be found. High temperature aluminium paint requires 200 deg C for it to cure, if it doesn\'t reach this temperarure the paint remains tacky to touch - long term.
Finally managed to get the engine and gearbox back into the car....
bolted the gearbox back to the engine and got it ready to lift...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/engbox.jpg)
It went in surprisingly easily....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/engin.jpg)
Next.... bolted the manifold and turbo on....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/turboon.jpg)
then put on the wastegate, pressure switches and carb mount...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/inleton2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/inleton.jpg)
then put on the carb and started putting in the oil lines....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/frontview.jpg)
put in my bargain £5 series 2 radiator off ebay....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1043.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1044.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1045.jpg)
top of the engine looks a lot cleaner without all the solenoids and wiring
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1046.jpg)
next up... the propshaft, exhaust, oil cooler, fans, fuel oil and vac lines and then the wiring puzzle.
.
That looks bloody great, its spuring me on to do mine.
Keith...
Quote from: myatt1972;723109That looks bloody great, its spuring me on to do mine.
Keith...
get it done!..... you know it makes sense!!
Great job there Ian, it\'s coming along really well.
What did `you use for cleaning your engine, gearbox etc?
I used \'gunk\' on mine over the weekend. Did you finish off with a clear sealant or other protective HR coating?
Quote from: CHC;723154Great job there Ian, it\'s coming along really well.
What did `you use for cleaning your engine, gearbox etc?
I used \'gunk\' on mine over the weekend. Did you finish off with a clear sealant or other protective HR coating?
Cliff,
I just used unleaded and a soft paintbrush to clean all the old oil etc off the engine and box and inside the bell housing and brake cleaner on the really stubborn stuff. I then buffed up the alloy parts with a cheapo wire attachment in my drill. I didn\'t want it to look too bling but I wanted it clean so that I don\'t get that hot oily smell you tend to get with old cars when they are covered in oil underneath and get hot.
Your\'s is looking nice and clean too.... it\'s hard to clean it with the carb and emission stuff still on it.
Is your car running a series 3 engine? how come you\'ve got a S3 beehive oil cooler on it?
WOW Ian!!!
Looks fantastic!!!
Home stretch now!
I also used a soft paint brush but with \'gunk\' and yes it was quite difficult cleaning the top side with carb and emission items but with care and a few minor scratches managed it quite well, the hardest part was making sure no fluids (degreasant or aqua) went into the carb or associated breather hoses. Another good reason for having a clean power unit is that if you did have an oil leak it can be readily identified before too much damage is caused - that too with burning smell of oil & grease (horrible).
Don\'t know the history behind the engine yet - I noticed the beehive when I bought it and thought that this was the standard change from the SA (with front oil cooler below the radiator) for the FB series 2. How can I identify if it is a S3 unit? The previous owner told me that the unit had been maintened and re-built by \'Rotechniks\' (or something very similar) about 2 years earlier - JAZ has done about 2K miles since this was done (allegedly).
Ian, liked your £5 bargain - was that a recent aquisition?
\'Inspirational\' Guys....you\'re both doing great jobs.
And the beehive cooler suggests Series 3 engine Cliff, although I suppose an S2 engine could have been modded along the way to S3 oil cooling?
Is the under-rad cooler still there Cliff? Blanked off? Can\'t see any hydraulic flexes.
No, totally gone Dave - it\'s as if it never existed soooooo perhaps it is an S3. Is there any other way to find out for sure?
Certainly an S2 car Cliff, Reg Date and VIN say so quite clearly.
So it\'s probably had both the engine and Rad system from an S3. Nothing wrong there, no leaky front oil cooler to worry about.
Quote from: CHC;723231No, totally gone Dave - it\'s as if it never existed soooooo perhaps it is an S3. Is there any other way to find out for sure?
as Dave says, could just have had a beehive fitted in place of the S2 oil cooler which eventually disintegrate.... no difference in terms of performance in a N/A road car.... the beehive is very efficient and reliable.
Check your V5 and see if the engine number matches...
Apply for the DVLA microfiche for this car and it\'ll show up any notified change of engine and also the engine number from when the car was new which you can then compare to your engine.
Parts are interchangeable between the various series and it\'s very difficult to ascertain for definite which model an engine originally came out of.
On British sportscars such as Triumphs and Jaguars, the factories kept hand written records which ended up at the archive at British Motor Heritage and you can apply for a certificate which details build date, dispatch date, dealer, vin, engine and key numbers, body colour, trim colour,optional extras fitted etc etc...
Sadly. I don\'t think any such records were retained for the 1st gens ( unless Mazda GB kept any) so confirming a cars originallity is very difficult after all these years.
Quote from: CHC;723200Ian, liked your £5 bargain - was that a recent aquisition?
it was on ebay about 9 months back, Keith gave me the heads up on it and it turned out to be a bargain.... a series 2 rad, newly re-cored for 5 quid!
Quote from: David Nock;723270Certainly an S2 car Cliff, Reg Date and VIN say so quite clearly.
So it\'s probably had both the engine and Rad system from an S3. Nothing wrong there, no leaky front oil cooler to worry about.
Had the leaky cooler with my SA back in the 80\'s so know what that is all about - defintely wont miss that problem.Yes concur - JAZ is an S2 but I\'m going to request details from DVLA to find out more info on it\'s history - will let you know.
Quote from: Ian65;723291it was on ebay about 9 months back, Keith gave me the heads up on it and it turned out to be a bargain.... a series 2 rad, newly re-cored for 5 quid!
I always like a bargain too but that wasn\'t just a bargain, that was b***dy fantastic - I trust it came with free p+p for that price?
Removed the rest of the old exhaust today and got the Elford one ready to go on.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/exhaust.jpg)
It\'s stainless from the turbo to the back axle where it mates to the Mazda factory backbox ( which is great as I prefer the stock look)
It only has a very small middle box so it should alter the tone of the exhaust quite a bit.
Looking forward to it.......!!
.
holy nuts that cleaned up well!
Looking really good Ian - was that an eBay special too?
Did you manage to pick up replacement gaskets as well?
Quote from: CHC;723672Looking really good Ian - was that an eBay special too?
Did you manage to pick up replacement gaskets as well?
The exhaust was made by/for Elford as well. It\'s stainless to take the heat from the turbo and gas flowed to get the best out of the turbo setup.
I drew around all the mating flanges onto a piece of paper and went to Roadrunner, the local motor factor and the guy looked through his selection of gaskets and matches them up perfectly..... result!
The exhaust itself was part of the complete setup I bought off ebay back in the spring.
Sounds to me you have a very good supplier base that are interested in assisting rather than hindering the enthusiast.
Where we are it\'s the normal "Noooooo, its not on the shelf we haven\'t got one" - some of them are too lazy to get out of their own way.
Whilst on this subject Ian, at a later date I\'ll be looking a replacing the exhaust system as the front and middle sections of JAZ are looking quite aged (but reasonably solid at the moment) and will obviously be considering SS for the long term. Is there a specific manufacturer I should be looking for and is there a preference in model type - I haven\'t got a clue on this front as I nornmally simply have standard units fitted.
Ta.
cleaned up the backbox today and put it back on the car with new fixings...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1061.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1062.jpg)
Quote from: CHC;723724Whilst on this subject Ian, at a later date I\'ll be looking a replacing the exhaust system as the front and middle sections of JAZ are looking quite aged (but reasonably solid at the moment) and will obviously be considering SS for the long term. Is there a specific manufacturer I should be looking for and is there a preference in model type
The most popular replacement systems back in the day were \'double s\' and Janspeed. The Janspeed was noisy and I can\'t remember if they were stainless or not.
The double s was all stainless and is as quiet as the standard factory system.
I don\'t think there are any stainless systems available off the shelf anymore for the 1st gen but plently of parts cars seem to still have them on. This would probably be your best route.
I know rotechnics before gary took them over did have stainless exhaust systems in stock,pretty sure WGT still do them too.
I \'think\' Nev has a full stainless system which will be up for grabs at some point if you are on the lookout- no pressure though mate it\'ll go in the classifieds section anyway. I\'ll get a look properly tomorrow-the back box certainly is SS.
Quote from: JBerg;723631holy nuts that cleaned up well!
Jon, I\'ve emailed you about the exhaust!
That\'s just like a bought one Ian - in fact it\'s better, no dings in yours.
Thanks for the info, JAZ already has a rear SS box so its the bits in front I intend to exchange.
Ta
Quote from: captainbizzaro;723880I \'think\' Nev has a full stainless system which will be up for grabs at some point if you are on the lookout- no pressure though mate it\'ll go in the classifieds section anyway. I\'ll get a look properly tomorrow-the back box certainly is SS.
I\'m in no serious rush myself currently Tim so we\'ll keep each other posted then.Ta
Quote from: captainbizzaro;723880I \'think\' Nev has a full stainless system which will be up for grabs at some point if you are on the lookout- no pressure though mate it\'ll go in the classifieds section anyway. I\'ll get a look properly tomorrow-the back box certainly is SS.
Hi Tim, if Cliff isn\'t after the back box could you possibly keep me informed only I\'ve been after one for ages as mine is way too loud, setting off car alarms and allsorts. Whats sort of noise does it create?
Cheers Paul
Email sent Paul,don\'t want to hijack the thread.
Ian, have you managed to hook up the exhaust and fire her up today?
I haven\'t yet Cliff... I put the propshaft back on yesterday, reinstalled the exhaust, connected up all the oil lines, flow and return, put the starter back on and reconnected the speedo cable
Its almost there... just the oil cooler, rad and efans to reinstall now plus the wiring.
I\'ve really been struggling to wire this up as the Elford system needs to retard the ignition as the boost rises to protect against detonation damaging the rotor tips. There isn\'t any support for this model anymore, Elford Turbo Ltd have long gone and there are no manuals or diagrams anywhere.
Yesterday however I finally solved the mystery thanks to friends made on this forum.
John and his lovely wife Ann came to visit and brought their fantastically original blue Elford, the ex motor show car featured on here a few weeks back.
They kindly gave me full access to the car to see how everything goes together and what connects to where and between us, we managed to work it out.
They\'re a lovely couple and that Elford with it\'s gradient paintwork.... WOW!
so a big thanks to them and hopefully by next weekend we should have lift off!!
Can\'t wait!!
Good to hear you have a rolling template as it were-that should make life a bit easier! Look forward to seeing Johns and your elfords in the flesh. There\'s gonna be alot of boosted FB\'s about next year!
Boy - you really have gone the whole hog doing this conversion.
At least these visitors are the type we\'d all prefer, maybe no overalls but better than that, all the technology required to facilitate moving forward at full steam in the right direction. Took loads of photographs too I presume?
So maybe you didn\'t do as much as you originally intended for this weekend but my god have you advanced at great speed I say. No excuses now for next weekend.
Too right... I feel that I\'ve now got over the biggest hurdle sussing the ignition. I didn\'t want to risk firing it up without the safeguards in place.
Dark nights are the only hinderance now...
I stopped Ian from working for a couple of hours today, but I must say it looks fantastic in the flesh.
Cant wait to hear it running.
Keith...
Too true - it\'s looking awesome in the pics.
Hope you took your overalls with you Keith?
Quote from: CHC;724233Too true - it\'s looking awesome in the pics.
Hope you took your overalls with you Keith?
It was going dark so it was tea drinking and chatting.
I may start digging my elford bits out now.
Quote from: myatt1972;724239It was going dark so it was tea drinking and chatting.
I may start digging my elford bits out now.
You do choose very good company though Keith:cool
Quote from: myatt1972;724239It was going dark so it was tea drinking and chatting.
I may start digging my elford bits out now.
and a very enjoyable couple of hours it was too!
another plus of 1st gen ownership...!!!
I\'ll drink to that - tea or coffee of cause.
:cheers
Quote from: CHC;724260I\'ll drink to that - tea or coffee of cause.
:cheers
any time you\'re passing..... you\'re more than welcome!
When JAZ is fully fledged we have a number of visits to do around the country so I dare say I\'ll be taking you up on this - will let you know well in advance too.
Ditto by the way - if you are ever up this way, drop me a line and we\'ll sort something.
:yes
I do get up to Cheshire Oaks quite a bit so maybe we can do this sometime.
Not to far from home that - say 15 miles for me, sounds gud mate.
the 1st comment people make when they look under the bonnet at this conversion is how clean and neat the top of the engine looks without the Nikki carb, rats nest and all the solenoids and wiring.....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/enginetop.jpg)
Got a spare S3 engine loom and I\'m going to strip out all the redundant plugs and wires and rebind it all.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/loom.jpg)
The \'on boost\' ignition retard system always looked a bit diy on Elfords so I\'ll incorporate that into the loom as well. Hopefully the reduced wiring will keep things looking neat.
Just need to double check the wiring diagrams now before I cut out something critical....
Ian,
I\'d just like to say how clean and neat the top of the engine looks without the Nikki carb,rats nest and all the solenoids and wiring.
Me thinks you,ve been dribbling over Jasons blue fb & Ramonz engine bays!
It does look much tidier,you\'re nearly there now.
ta stu..
Quote from: syebba;724473Ian,
Me thinks you,ve been dribbling over Jasons blue fb & Ramonz engine bays!
ta stu..
yeah, they are inspirational.
When I see this I wish I had taken the easy road - 200 real hp beats 1 million imaginary hp anyday!
Good luck mate - like your work.
Keep the faith man lol.
Started stripping back and cutting this S3 loom but I need some help please...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/loom1.jpg)
I\'ve identified most of the wires but have 3 that I can\'t remember if they are supposed to be connected or if they are one of the many that just hang around unused.
If I try to describe them, could one of the S3 owners check their cars for me sometime please and let me know if they should be connected or not. ( the workshop manuals are useless when it comes to the wiring)
They are all in the loom that comes out of the big connector covered in a large rubber boot on the n/s inner wing. I think most are in the area around the oil pressure switch.
Wire 1.
is a single yellow wire with brown bands and a female bullet type connector...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/yellow1.jpg)
wire 2.
is black with a light green stripe and a female spade type connector and it\'s taped together with the wire that goes to the oil level sensor in the sump
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/sumpwire.jpg)
wire 3.
is brown with a yellow stripe and black bands and has a female bullet type connector and is bound together with the wire going to the oil pressure switch
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/brown2.jpg)
any help would be appreciated!
Might be a day to get back to you Ian....On the case though.
Quote from: David Nock;724777Might be a day to get back to you Ian....On the case though.
cheers, appreciate it!
Right....This is the feedback. My engine is unmodded Ex Factory as is the wiring.
No.1 on your list, Yellow with Brown Bands goes to an angled sensor device right at the side of the Oil Pressure Switch. That must be the water temperature sensor.
No.2 on your list, Black with Light Green Stripe is loosely tied with the wire that goes to the Oil Level Switch and is not connected.
No.3 on your list, Brown with Yellow Stripe is longer than the other wires because it is bound up onto the top of the engine, where it goes nowhere - not connected.
Hope that helps.....Dave.
Thanks for the info Dave and Keith...... sussed it now with your help.....cheers!
Any progress this weekend Ian?
Quote from: myatt1972;725498Any progress this weekend Ian?
Ha, Ha! my creation..... IT\'S ALIVE, IT\'S ALIVE!!
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/th_etl1.jpg) (http://s589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/?action=view¤t=etl1.mp4)
Put the oil cooler on and connected up the breathers and vac lines and the coolant hoses then unplugged the fuel pump and spun it over to get the oil pressure up.
Put the old slave cylinder back on and bled the clutch then plugged the fuel pump back in and fired it up.
Took a bit of fiddling to get the carb settings roughly right so that it would tick over but sorted now.
Left it on tickover for about 5 mins then my bargain £15 oil cooler leaked!
What a b*******!
On the positive side, the engine sounds as sweet as a nut so I just need to track down a T2 oil cooler now.
I\'d already decided to put the larger S3 rad back in and go for a T2 cooler up front but hoped to run the S2 setup for the time being. Oh well, not to worry!
The 1st RX7 I ever saw back in 1984 was an Elford down in Bournemouth where they made them and I\'ve wanted one ever since.
I managed to drive to the bottom of my drive and back to test the clutch so after waiting 26 years, my 1st drive in an Elford lasted about 100 yards and wasn\'t quite how I envisaged it but hey, what the hell, I now officially own an Elford Turbo!
.
Woooopwooooop, good times mate well done.
Just had a thought, thats just doubled the going rate for a TII cooler now bugger.:D:D
Well done mate ........... All comes to him who waits .........
Dibs
cheers guys.... forgot to add, click on the pic to go to video
I love that sound
Quote from: Ian65;725525cheers guys.... forgot to add, click on the pic to go to video
Congratulations, well done and all that mate - bet that really felt good after all that research, grafting, head scratching & tinkering. Looks great and that sound ..... corrrrrrr, brilliant.You\'re the man:god
Well done mate, I better brush the dust off the crypton tuner for you.
Ahh, is that the oil cooler the dog was chewing on in the back of my car :eek
Nice job you done there Ian, Bet you got a great big smile on your face still.:D
Keith
Well done Ian,thats impressive in such a short space of time.
Looks Good, Sounds Great.....Well Done Mate.
Thanks for the kind comments guys. I must say it was very satisfying doing the conversion myself
I enjoyed working out how it all went together as much as doing the conversion itself but I couldn\'t have done it without the help, advice and encouragement from the members on this forum so thankyou very much for all your support.
I really appreciated it, cheers.
Wonderful feeling when it fires up for the first time :D
Well done !
Shaun
Awesome!
Hope you find a t2 oil cooler asap and can get out and see how she goes!
Anyone selling any elford bits?? :mmmm
Quote from: RamoNZ;725779Anyone selling any elford bits?? :mmmm
I do have two lots :D
Quote from: myatt1972;725783I do have two lots :D
How large and deep is your rotorshed Keith ? You seem to have quite a few things in there (thank goodness).Cliff:Thumbs-up
Several rotorsheds Cliff, been filling them for the last fifteen years. The annoying thing is a few months before I discovered this forum I scrapped a load of stuff cos I was short of space, I could kick myself now as Im sure it could have been re-homed here.
Keith...
Ian it will be very interesting what the MPG is when all is run in.
Quote from: myatt1972;725801Several rotorsheds Cliff, been filling them for the last fifteen years. The annoying thing is a few months before I discovered this forum I scrapped a load of stuff cos I was short of space, I could kick myself now as Im sure it could have been re-homed here.
Keith...
Isn\'t it always the case though Keith - that\'s the trouble with our better halves, they just don\'t realise the value of an "Alladins\' Cave" when they say "oh you\'ve not used that for xxx years so just get rid of them".I\'ve only returned to the RX7 lovers society for 7 months now and I\'ve started to collect already. Knowing what we know on the rarity of various bits & bobs, if we don\'t collect them now, they\'ll be gone forever.Keep up the good work - long live the \'rotorshed\' I say.:Thumbs-up
Quote from: myatt1972;725783I do have two lots :D
Drop me some details please :) :)
Ramon at Paxton dot co dot uk
Quote from: Ian65;725518Ha, Ha! my creation..... IT\'S ALIVE, IT\'S ALIVE!!
.
Congratulations Ian. Lovely success story. Everything you do
looks so good too....
John
Hi Ian,
Where does the turbo oil feed originate from?
Quote from: RamoNZ;726251Hi Ian,
Where does the turbo oil feed originate from?
It comes from the oil gallery where the long oil cooler hose collects to the engine, down by the starter motor. The union has a take off for the braided oil line that then goes to the top of the turbo heat shield...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/ab2.jpg)
Come on Ian spill it - I am dying to know how this thing drives compared to before - performance, fuel economy, cruising etc..
This has convinced me to do my own special project so I am very interested to hear of your results :)
I wish I knew mate.... my oil cooler leaks like a leaky leaky thing so I can\'t drive the car.
As soon as the pressure builds, it p****s out.
Haven\'t had it out on the road yet and I\'ve been too busy with other things to do much car stuff in the last 2 weeks.
I\'m looking for another cooler unless I can find someone to tig up the crack in this one.... it leaks where the hoses attach.
Ah, bugger. Refresh my memory - is it a T2 or S2 cooler? I think by the time you take it out and get it tigged you might be better off getting a non cracked one - the best way to test the tig work is to put under pressure and that usually means refitting it..
You could bypass it for a quick test drive though...
it\'s an S2 cooler I bought for £15 off a scrap car.... worth a punt for 15 quid but I lost the gamble on this one.
I\'m gonna replace it with a T2 cooler if I can find one.
I sourced a TII cooler from RXMotors-he might have another. I\'m going there tomorrow I\'ll ask for you if you like.
I think the EGI coolers are the same - correct me if I am wrong, but the 2 I had looked virtually identiical and one looked like it was factory fit in the S4 NA I got my front suspension from.
Cant be that hard to find???? Anyone??
Tim\'ll fix it :)
Jinglejangle:D
Quote from: captainbizzaro;727762I sourced a TII cooler from RXMotors-he might have another. I\'m going there tomorrow I\'ll ask for you if you like.
if you don\'t mind asking for me Tim.... ask if the egi cooler will do the job as well!!
Cheers!
Quote from: Ian65;727769if you don\'t mind asking for me Tim.... ask if the egi cooler will do the job as well!!
Cheers!
Okaydokes.
Quote from: RamoNZ;727763I think the EGI coolers are the same - correct me if I am wrong, but the 2 I had looked virtually identiical and one looked like it was factory fit in the S4 NA I got my front suspension from.
Cant be that hard to find???? Anyone??
I also be believe this to be the case. When I was spec.ing an oil cooler for my mx7 I was told all FC oil coolers were the same.
Yup they certainly are-just picked up an FC OC from Rxmotors and they confirmed this is the case. He didn\'t seem hopeful of finding another oil tight unit though but he\'s gonna ring me and let me know.
Quote from: Steve-A;727896I also be believe this to be the case. When I was spec.ing an oil cooler for my mx7 I was told all FC oil coolers were the same.
Thats good news. Seems I shall have to leave the tranquil waters of the 1st gen forum and sail off to FC land in search of such an item.
Wear a lifejacket! Just kidding they\'re a welcoming bunch.
still no oil cooler to be had anywhere :(
Have you tried putting a wanted in the main wanted section on the forum? It found me one quick enough for my mx7.
Quote from: Steve-A;729970Have you tried putting a wanted in the main wanted section on the forum? It found me one quick enough for my mx7.
good call.... I\'ll do that!
In all seriousness if you really can\'t get one anywhere then I\'d really consider an eBay 19 row jobbie. Bearing in mind that Chris Impey\'s drag car (one of the quickest 13b\'s in the UK) is running one they can\'t be all that bad. Either that or standard FD units might be worth a thought...
Lee Mills is breaking his fc by the looks of it Ian. Or is there a cooler from any outher car you would like. I have nearly 2000 to choose from if i can help. I do have a fd one in the workshop also.
Keith.
I had the oil cooler off Lees FC.
Edit the EGI, not the cab.
was forced into doing a few hours on this car today.....
when I fired it up the other week I only put water in it in case it wasn\'t oil tight and had to be stripped again but as the weathers turned nasty, I\'ve had to antifreeze it today.
I\'d already decided to put the larger S3 rad back on it so I changed the rad at the same time, put the e-fans back on and took that bloody oil cooler off.
I\'ve just bypassed it for now so that at least I can drive the car to move it about on the drive.
It wasn\'t half cold out there today ........ brrrrrrr!
Run it up to temperature and all is well.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/th_DSCF1133.jpg) (http://s589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/?action=view¤t=DSCF1133.mp4)
.
Noticed today how weak the side lights look compared to the light coming out of the headlamps which are running xenons.
The side lights look like there are a couple of birthday candles behind the lenses in comparison.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/zenons.jpg)
Might try some leds in the side lights or some more xenons
.
Been considering upgrading the headlamps myself but didn\'t know which to go for. Would you recommend the Xenons Ian?
Quote from: CHC;730121Been considering upgrading the headlamps myself but didn\'t know which to go for. Would you recommend the Xenons Ian?
absolutely yes.
the standard lights are so feeble they restrict the 1st gens speed at night on dark roads.
These xenon lights are phenomenal, so bright and clear compared to the standard items.
I love \'em!!
Did you do the Relay mod too ? Made a huge difference to mine last year.
Shaun
Quote from: shaunwil;730123Did you do the Relay mod too ? Made a huge difference to mine last year.
Shaun
What would that mod be Shaun? I normally don\'t do electrics so any help would be good.:cheers
Quote from: Ian65;730122absolutely yes.
the standard lights are so feeble they restrict the 1st gens speed at night on dark roads.
These xenon lights are phenomenal, so bright and clear compared to the standard items.
I love \'em!!
Sounds bl**dy good to me then, I\'ll be lookin\' into this now.Ta
Basically Cliff, on a 1st gen the entire current being pulled by the headlights goes through the switch which is bonkers-so best thing to do is use the existing headlight feed as a trigger for the relay and run a more suitable main to the relay. That way the poor stalk isn\'t bearing the brunt.
Hiya Ian,
Glad to see ya got this going. I\'m sitting here looking at my Elford setup- I need to move the turbo forwards to clear the brake servo in my viva. I will make a new exhaust manifold to suit but I will also need to sort out a waste gate. Yours looks different to mine- I have the original waste gate- a square cast iron item bolted to where yours bolts to- this is controlled by the actuator like most old school setups.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9145/131220103066.jpg)
What type of waste gate is yours? It looks much easier to relocate than the massive set up mine has!
I shall be asking many questions as i get closer to fitting the setup you can be sure of that!
cheers
alex
Quote from: yoeddynz;732436Hiya Ian,
Glad to see ya got this going. I\'m sitting here looking at my Elford setup- I need to move the turbo forwards to clear the brake servo in my viva. I will make a new exhaust manifold to suit but I will also need to sort out a waste gate. Yours looks different to mine- I have the original waste gate- a square cast iron item bolted to where yours bolts to- this is controlled by the actuator like most old school setups.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9145/131220103066.jpg)
What type of waste gate is yours? It looks much easier to relocate than the massive set up mine has!
I shall be asking many questions as i get closer to fitting the setup you can be sure of that!
cheers
alex
Hi Alex,
good to see you\'re getting round to using your Elford!
I\'m still trying to get the spoiler off that silver car but no dice so far!!
Thanks for signing the guestbook on my website... it\'s nice to get some feedback.
The Elford setup is a real tight fit in a 1st gen RX7 so I\'d imagine it\'d be no easier in any other car.
There is hardly any info available on the Elford Turbo RX7 anywhere....
Elford turbo ltd ceased trading in 1994 and there are no manuals or diagrams anywhere to help you suss it out.
It took me nearly a year of research to work out how it works..... I\'m still trying to decode the wiring to the black box but you don\'t really need this, especially with your setup.
Elford used 2 versions of the turbo setup over the lifetime of the conversion....
the early one, with a boost-guard wastegate....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/turbo1.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/turbo2.jpg)
and the swing arm type that you have...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/aaaaas.jpg)
The Boost-guard was a pop open wastegate that was backed up by a microdynamics control module that provided a rev limiter and as a failsafe, above 8psi it cuts the trailing plugs and also every other spark of the leading plugs until the boost drops back below 8psi.
When Elford revised the wastegate and changed to the swing arm system in 1983, this box a tricks wasn\'t deemed as important as the swing arm was designed to be more reliable.
Both systems had 2 pressure switches linked to the inlet manifold to monitor boost pressure....
the 8psi one described above and also a 0.5 psi switch that reacts to any positive boost and retards the ignition by 1.25 deg for every 1000 rpm increase in engine speed.
This is the important one as it\'s designed to prevent detonation in the engine which will quickly destroy the tips.
I\'ve put together a diagram showing how this connects up on a pdf file and I\'ll email it to you if you like.
If you\'ve got any questions, you can email me at ian08 at sky dot com and I\'d do what I can to help
I\'ll try to get my website up to date with the latest pictures regarding this conversion which again, may help.
cheers,
Ian
these pics give a view of how the Boost-guard wastegate sits in the car....
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1024.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1025.jpg)
.
Cool- cheers for the info Ian! I didnt realise that there were two versions- I thought i had an old standard system and that you had added a after market wastegate- as it looks like one.
I will build a new manifold and put the waste gate in the centre just under the turbo- This I have been told by several will be a good reliable place as the gas pressures will be even from both ports there as well as it being a easy flow for gases to escape when the gate opens - the elford position is compromised by being in a very tight area- I guess its all they could do! Perhaps thats why they changed the WG?
I will also be saving around 104 kgs when I remove th elford cast iron manifold!!! its heavy isnt it- it will last many lifetimes.
I will be fitting a 38mm aftermarket WG- an adjustable one that happens to go down to 5psi- which seems rare these days.
I wondered about the two solenoids that were on the back of the engine- I guessed sort of right in what they do but will certainly ask more questions to you when i get to that point. I foolishly didn\'t take enough photos when I started to strip that rusty old Elford. I would certainly be interested in how the little black box and solenoids do the jobs! I\'ll send you an email.
I have made some mods to another sump and built a new removable oil drain- I want to keep all the elford parts intact in case I onday want to fit them into a FB.
Here\'s the build thread on Retro rides...
http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=93269
cheers
alex
Hey Ian,
Wondering if you got my email? I think i got email wrong. I would love any wiring info you have plus info about the fuel line placement on carbs etc.( oh how I wish I took more photos/wrote notes)
If anyone else out there in elford land can help that would be great- very little info out there!
cheers
alex
Quote from: yoeddynz;735824Hey Ian,
Wondering if you got my email? I think i got email wrong. I would love any wiring info you have plus info about the fuel line placement on carbs etc.( oh how I wish I took more photos/wrote notes)
If anyone else out there in elford land can help that would be great- very little info out there!
cheers
alex
Hey Alex, you must be telepathic!
I\'ve just spent the last hour putting together a file showing you how to do this then logged on and saw this message.
check your email and you should have it now.
If you need any other help mate, let me know!
cheers,
Ian
Cheers Ian - just received your email- You are a star!
Quote from: yoeddynz;732719Here\'s the build thread on Retro rides...
http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=93269
cheers
alex
That\'s awesome dude, looking to do a Viva with a 13b when I get the pennies together :)
Awesome project Alex.
any ideas if I could run a S3 water cooled beehive oil cooler with this Elford setup. I\'m running the larger s3 radiator already. How efficient are these beehives compared to air cooled coolers?
There is conflicting discussions on the use of the bee hive cooler on rx7club.com in if there is a benefit in running air or water. I\'ve swapped out to the T2 air cooler and I\'m running twice the core size S3 Radiator too (specially made when I had the rad rebuilt locally). The gas puts more need for good cooling system.
I\'d go with the air system because your not using the capacity of the water cooler to do both jobs.
How much power are you looking at running with the turbo setup ?
Shaun
Shaun- I wonder if i could use lpg on the elford setup in my viva? Do the make LPG setups to suit SU carbs?
And dualist- do it!!!! Vivas are soooooo cheap to buy, handle better than escorts (coils all round, linked rear end, upright shocks, double wishbone on front)
A 13B would go well in a 750kg viva!
at long, long last, yesterday I finally got my hands on a good S5 oil cooler and the lines...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/T2COOLER.jpg)
will now be able to get this baby on the road... things are looking up!
Is that the last piece in the puzzle for the Elford then Ian? You can take her out and do some miles now?
Video will be needed if thats the case!
yep... that\'s the last bit. About time too! It\'s been off the road since September when the clutch exploded.
Great news Ian - on the road for March perhaps?
At long, long last, I finally got to test drive this car today. It\'s been off the road since the clutch went in Sept last year and stayed that way whilst I did the turbo conversion.
I\'ve always drooled over the Elford turbos... the first 1st gen I ever saw back in 1984 was one but I\'ve never got to drive one before today.
And the verdict is...........................
I LOVE IT!!
The turbo transforms the car, the engine seems silky smooth and it pulls like a train.... fantastic!
The mid range power and torque is phenomenal.
There are a couple of niggles..
I need to adjust the carb, it ticks over too high at 1500rpm but the carb has had a full strip and rebuild so it was bound to need some adjustment.
When the old clutch exploded, it allowed the piston seal in the clutch slave to pass over the rust part of the bore at the end of the cylinder. I\'d cleaned it up hoping that it would be ok but it\'s leaking slightly so I need to change the slave.
Not bad though considering the amount of work done to this car.
All in all, very pleased.
Well done Ian, its great when a dream comes true .............
Awesome mate, first boosted FB of the year out of the starting blocks!
Well done mate, not much chance of me keeping up now.
If you want to pop round one night and stick her on the crypton youre more than welcome (good excuse to take me for a spin :D)
Cheers guys.... it\'s given me a lot of satisfaction to finally finish this and get it roadworthy.
I\'ve spent many an hour working on it but I\'ve spent many many more hours researching the Elfords, talking to people and listening to others advice.
To finally see it all come together is great.
Looking forward to enjoying it now!
Thanks for the offer Keith, I\'ll take you up on that.... you can take it out for a blast... it\'ll inspire you to do yours!
Thats awesome news Ian!!!! And I must say I am quite relieved to hear that you love it- wow imagine what it will be like in my viva less 200+ kg!!!:3gears-rh
Its that extra torque I\'m keen on- in the road tests back in the day the Elford dropped its 50-80 mph time in in top gear from 11 secs to 5secs thereabouts.
Are you gonna get it on a rolling road?
alex
your Viva is going to absolutely fly Alex!
Sorry to hear about your engine woes.... did you manage to get any new plates / housings?
I hadn\'t thought about putting it on the rollers but that\'s a good idea... I may well do.
By the way, I sussed out this electronic wizardry in the end... click on the picture to see it in action...just before your engine blows up due to overboost, this bursts into action and does this!
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/th_DSCF1334.jpg) (http://s589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/?action=view¤t=DSCF1334.mp4)
Great to hear :D
Get it up to WGT onto the rollers and let pip do his magic ! They are fantastic cars :)
Shaun
Cool- Thats exactly what I need- extra beeps!:2Confused I still have mine sitting on the shelf- we could wire them up together and have loads of flashing lights and beeps- like a monty python hospital sketch.
Yeah I have a plate and a housing on the way. Some new water seals and away I go. I think I might look for the later oil pump with wider rotors- 17mm. Mine is an older rx4 one with 12mm rotors so less flow. Plus maybe modify the oil pressure reg.
I\'m hoping to at least get Viva running and then store it for a bit as we set sail south in the housetruck for winter work.
Btw- I re made the little pressure switch holder that normally bolts to the bell housing. I get a photo when I have a chance.
alex
Great news Ian, always good when things live up to expectations!
I think for those of us who aren\'t just round the corner from you, unlike Keith, we need videos :P
Quote from: Ian65;749133At long, long last, I finally got to test drive this car today. It\'s been off the road since the clutch went in Sept last year and stayed that way whilst I did the turbo conversion.
I\'ve always drooled over the Elford turbos... the first 1st gen I ever saw back in 1984 was one but I\'ve never got to drive one before today.
And the verdict is...........................
I LOVE IT!!
The turbo transforms the car, the engine seems silky smooth and it pulls like a train.... fantastic!
The mid range power and torque is phenomenal.
There are a couple of niggles..
I need to adjust the carb, it ticks over too high at 1500rpm but the carb has had a full strip and rebuild so it was bound to need some adjustment.
When the old clutch exploded, it allowed the piston seal in the clutch slave to pass over the rust part of the bore at the end of the cylinder. I
Great :cheers
The French RHD I drove this summer, wasn\'t perfetcly fixed, but I felt the boost very linear and stronger. It was very similar to a Turbo II for response, and seems maybe a little faster (in a straight line) than a Turbo II that I drove times ago.
Fantastic news Ian - brilliant, awesome, well done and back of the net!!
It looked raring to go when I saw you last weekend :yes. No stopping you now. Roll on project 2.
Great news mate, glad she\'s fit and well again.
Quote from: David Nock;749265Great news mate, glad she\'s fit and well again.
sure is Dave!
you can now move it from the \'sorn/project/in bits\' catagory to the \'alive and kicking and rotoring around Englands green and pleasant\' catagory!
had my 1st full day of driving this car in the sunshine today and I\'ve been grinning that much I look like I\'ve swallowed a coathanger!:D
I\'ve done 71 miles in it today, A road, B road and city centre driving and it\'s behaved impeccably.
I\'m pleased that there are no gremlins that have arisen from the conversion, the engine is water and oil tight with the exception of a slight weep on one of the metering pump lines which was there before but which I\'d forgotten about. It\'s just the rubber bit where it meets the pump so I\'ll fix that this weekend.
A problem that has come up is the offside front caliper is sticking on after the long lay up so a freshen up of the front brakes beckons but no big deal.
Around town it\'s no different to any other 1st gen, just ticks along in the traffic but the magic comes when you can get it on some open road and stretch its legs.... once it\'s on the revs and the turbo comes in, it flies.
It\'ll accellerate up to 90 in no time but the power isn\'t on/off instant like some turbo setups, it\'s smooth and progressive, all the way through the rev band. It\'s the increased mid range torque that makes the difference.
It\'s addictive!
If I get plenty of RX7 driving days this year like today, I\'ll be a happy man!
my baby safely back on the drive...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1404.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1405.jpg)
the engine bay as it stands now all put back together...
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1406.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/gsxrmovistar1/DSCF1407.jpg)
I\'m going to put the e-fan back on it but just to get the car back on the road, I took the easier route and put the vicious fan on it temporarily.
.
Its a shame as the orange fan shows that there is something special in there.
Good luck, and I\'m even smiling as I write this.
Dibs
Looking really nice.
Shaun
Welcome to the Elford club.....
Glad you are happy with it. Beautiful work.
I have just realised it has been some 25 years since I drove a none Elford FB so I don\'t notice the performance any more! 24 years 364 days to go for you....
John
You couldn\'t have chosen a better day for your 1st Elford Day - really pleased for you and she looks a dream.
Glad to hear all your hard work has come to fruition! Enjoy :-)