Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: G@NDY on May 28, 2010, 04:06:24 PM

Title: Mapping results
Post by: G@NDY on May 28, 2010, 04:06:24 PM
Had the FC at WGT today, and thought I would post the graph up. I was absolutley cacking myself as my luck with motors is very bad. So I asked Pip to map very conservative and it made 335fwhp at 12psi.
Found out that my exhaust is to restrictive so thats next on the list.

Would do you think? (engine is a half bridge with T78)

(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m272/gandy78/AEO.jpg)
Title: Mapping results
Post by: m1tch on May 28, 2010, 07:11:50 PM
Hmm I would have expected more from a T78 on a bridgeport, Profs engine is making that on a hybrid OEM turbo running maybe a bar on a streetport etc
Title: Mapping results
Post by: Ed_RX7 on May 28, 2010, 07:15:36 PM
Thats what i was thinking
Title: Mapping results
Post by: G@NDY on May 28, 2010, 08:04:14 PM
Yep, more work needed :( !
Title: Mapping results
Post by: m1tch on May 28, 2010, 08:29:19 PM
What were the AFRs? It might be lower on power if its running really rich lol
Title: Mapping results
Post by: G@NDY on May 28, 2010, 08:36:43 PM
On boost it was around 10-10.5 running richer that fiddy cent ;)
Title: Mapping results
Post by: turbotoaster on May 28, 2010, 10:17:24 PM
eeek why does he need to run it that rich for such a low boost, really should be around 11-11.2

Do you have a graph with the afr on as ive not seen great fueling results in the past from him
Title: Mapping results
Post by: m1tch on May 30, 2010, 10:30:50 AM
I can beat you on that, mine drops to below the scale in the car lol so around 8:1 lol need to get the e-manage plugged in and wired to the wideband O2 so it can map itself :D
Title: Mapping results
Post by: Prof on May 30, 2010, 10:36:58 AM
Quote from: m1tch;696332Hmm I would have expected more from a T78 on a bridgeport, Profs engine is making that on a hybrid OEM turbo running maybe a bar on a streetport etc

Made 318 flywheel at 12psi on the hyrbid - that\'s with the stock 550\'s in !
 
I\'d say it would have a lot more power and torque if some of the richness was taken out - AFR of 11\'s are plenty safe :) The main thing is retarding the ignition before the peak torque point and then bringing it back slightly after.
 
Still decent enough looking graphs - no weirdness to worry about
Title: Mapping results
Post by: gillard28 on June 07, 2010, 01:17:09 AM
tbh saying 10.5:1 dont really say much. is that a peak tq figure or an over trim ?
 
as to 8:1 i presume ur running nitrous and a serious ign as the stock set up wont ignite that rich on boost.
Title: Mapping results
Post by: pdtaylor18 on June 25, 2010, 09:33:37 PM
I thought that anything below 11 AFR is just wasting fuel and would have thought that 11.5 would be around the minimum. I can not believe that PIP would even class 10-10.5 as conservative?? seems you are wasting a lot of power somewhere and the AFR is certainly rich enough to lose it there.

16 - 17 lean best economy
14.7  stoich, cleanest emissions
13.3  approximate lean best power
12.2  approximate best power
11.5  approximate rich best power
Title: Mapping results
Post by: shaunwil on June 25, 2010, 10:53:11 PM
Could purely be the exhaust system. What system is installed ?

Shaun
Title: Mapping results
Post by: turbotoaster on June 26, 2010, 02:30:02 PM
to make that much of a difference id expect he would be running a 2.5in exhaust, theres guys on here making more power on a stock port with stock twins at the same boost
Title: Mapping results
Post by: G@NDY on June 26, 2010, 05:13:09 PM
Its purely down to exhaust its a 2.5 inch system with 3 silencers. Ooops my fault didnt want to upset the neighbours :(
Title: Mapping results
Post by: pdtaylor18 on June 26, 2010, 06:14:40 PM
Shame on you !! You can\'t keep a rotary quiet you know......LOUD and PROUD

On the other note of AFR\'s then how much would a 3" system affect them? Would it?

Just thought that having a AFR of 10-10.5 is just too low, that would just cause a lot of carbon to build up inside.
Title: Mapping results
Post by: turbotoaster on June 26, 2010, 08:45:50 PM
i assume you only had a 2.5 inch because you fitted it to the car when it was completely standard?

low to mid 11s is good, but pip maps super rich so they dont ever get chance to blow up i think
Title: Mapping results
Post by: G@NDY on June 26, 2010, 08:48:36 PM
Yes mate it was from when it was a stocker.
Title: Mapping results
Post by: 12at on June 26, 2010, 09:38:05 PM
why did you even bother going for a tune with such a small exhaust on the large T78 or what ever turbo you have.. pushing shyte up hill really.
 
didnt your engine builder tell you that it would be too small??
Title: Mapping results
Post by: turbotoaster on June 26, 2010, 09:56:35 PM
stick a 4inch system on it and let that engine breath! should be another 200bhp easy when mapped on full boost
Title: Mapping results
Post by: gillard28 on June 26, 2010, 11:48:52 PM
Quote from: pdtaylor18;701340I thought that anything below 11 AFR is just wasting fuel and would have thought that 11.5 would be around the minimum. I can not believe that PIP would even class 10-10.5 as conservative?? seems you are wasting a lot of power somewhere and the AFR is certainly rich enough to lose it there.
 
16 - 17 lean best economy
14.7 stoich, cleanest emissions
13.3 approximate lean best power
12.2 approximate best power
11.5 approximate rich best power

 
I dont personally agree with these number etc. TBH i would trust the fact that pip knows what he is doing (and he does)
Title: Mapping results
Post by: 12at on June 27, 2010, 12:12:38 AM
Quote from: turbotoaster;701448stick a 4inch system on it and let that engine breath! should be another 200bhp easy when mapped on full boost

 
I wouldnt say 4" but if room persists 3.5" but at a bare minimum 3"..
Title: Mapping results
Post by: Prof on June 27, 2010, 06:46:04 AM
Quote from: turbotoaster;701440i assume you only had a 2.5 inch because you fitted it to the car when it was completely standard?
 
low to mid 11s is good, but pip maps super rich so they dont ever get chance to blow up i think

OK, so it won\'t blow for going lean, but that rich over time and it will produce carbon deposits - that could lead to incandescense and pre ignition - which is basically as bad and could take out an engine.
 
Sometimes a larger exhaust can reduce noise - basically a smaller exhaust section feeding into a larger one can act like a trumpet. Go 3"-3.5" all through with a mid box and it won\'t be that loud.
Title: Mapping results
Post by: m1tch on June 27, 2010, 08:39:05 AM
The exhaust system needs to match with the outlet of the exhaust, you don\'t need to go massive as the gases will leave the back of the turbo into a huge space and just slow down lol

Measure the exhaust outlet and then get an exhaust system for that, I don\'t have much choice with my T88 as it uses an UBER wierd clamp lol my current exhaust system is 3" to twin 2.5" pipes, large 3" midbox with 2 custom stubby silencers. Its not loud at all...until I turn the car on :rollin but seriously, if you get a good midbox like the racing beat 3" one I have it will reduce noise and not be restrictive, the issue is if you fit a 2.5" midbox onto a 3" system etc.

I completely agree with prof on the trumpet thing, check out Liams exhaust lol its like a vuvuzela :D