Hi all, I have just been chatting to Prof about this, I know that Tim @ RX motors runs his 1st gen with a mahoosive turbo with no IC, just Wi that turns on at a certain boost level to cool the charge.
I was just wondering about if it might be ok with running with no IC on my T88, because its quite large there will be some spooling time and as the turbo will be run at relativity low boost (max of 1.2 bar momentarily) would it be ok to run with no IC?
I decided to go with an uprated top mount on my OEM FC turbo setup as I didn\'t want to have any lag, which is sometimes found to be the case with say a FMIC or a V mount, compared to the top mount. With no IC there will just be a pipe from the turbo, to the inlet, with WI nozzles in the pipe.
Would this be ok to run? Has it been run like that on a T88 at all? I will only really be at the higher boost down the strip, so will only be on boost for less than 14 seconds etc maybe it might be an idea to run one of those liquid charge coolers over the pipe or something? I know that the fuel also plays a part in bringing the temperature down as well.
What does everything think?
Up to 7psi you are ok with no IC on a Large turbo (dont try it with twins) anything past that you need the WI to kick in. If you dont you will lose power past 7psi with no IC and no WI.
A chargecoolers are good with less piping therefore better spool, chargecoolers are not as good as FMIC or VMIC on circuits
Quote from: BlitzBoy;687952Up to 7psi you are ok with no IC on a Large turbo (dont try it with twins) anything past that you need the WI to kick in. If you dont you will lose power past 7psi with no IC and no WI.
A chargecoolers are good with less piping therefore better spool, chargecoolers are not as good as FMIC or VMIC on circuits
Ok, I will have a think about the different ideas, I won\'t be on max boost for long, I will see what the MR2s use as they are issues with IC cooling with the engine in the back, its where I got the flat mounted IC idea from, I guess I could still run a top mount, or maybe a thinner (but deeper) IC that goes where the top mount is so its more like just a pipe with a core inbuilt that has WI fitted as well.
I am just thinking of other ideas past a Top mount, V mount, C mount, Flat mount or Front mount.
well if your thinking of running without an intercooler id run pre-turbo water injection, lots of water and strong ignition system, that way instead of trying to cool the air down in the pipework you stop it from the source, ie not allowing the turbo to get that hot in the first place
Quote from: turbotoaster;688005well if your thinking of running without an intercooler id run pre-turbo water injection, lots of water and strong ignition system, that way instead of trying to cool the air down in the pipework you stop it from the source, ie not allowing the turbo to get that hot in the first place
Im not running WI pre-turbo, would only run it post turbo, pre intercooler and have a good cold air feed, the air is only hot when it is compressed, so the air won\'t be hot pre turbo, might drop the temp a few degrees, this then goes into the turbo and its still hot. I will be putting the nozzles into the air stream where it is at its hottest.
The other day after a good drive around I parked up and felt the top mount, the turbo side was warm/hot, the intercooler exit was stone cold :D I do love my Pace cored ARC copy :D
I will probably get a custom core made up with the correct size of intake and exit on it :)
I am also thinking of running an electric fan under it to make it ducted, this will help with heatsoak when sitting in the warmup lane at santapod etc although my core takes aaaaages to get any heatsoak, so I might just fit a angled heat shield under the IC like the OEM IC
it doesnt work by cooling the air thats going into the turbo, it cools it at the point of compression, ie when the turbo is compressing the air the water is already there to help take the heat out, adding after the turbo you are just trying to cool something down that you didnt want to get hot in the first place.
Quote from: m1tch;687947Hi all, I have just been chatting to Prof about this, I know that Tim @ RX motors runs his 1st gen with a mahoosive turbo with no IC, just Wi that turns on at a certain boost level to cool the charge.
I was just wondering about if it might be ok with running with no IC on my T88, because its quite large there will be some spooling time and as the turbo will be run at relativity low boost (max of 1.2 bar momentarily) would it be ok to run with no IC?
I decided to go with an uprated top mount on my OEM FC turbo setup as I didn\'t want to have any lag, which is sometimes found to be the case with say a FMIC or a V mount, compared to the top mount. With no IC there will just be a pipe from the turbo, to the inlet, with WI nozzles in the pipe.
Would this be ok to run? Has it been run like that on a T88 at all? I will only really be at the higher boost down the strip, so will only be on boost for less than 14 seconds etc maybe it might be an idea to run one of those liquid charge coolers over the pipe or something? I know that the fuel also plays a part in bringing the temperature down as well.
What does everything think?
I am prety sure dragon performance ran their camo car on t88 turbo, no intercooler, running aquamist w/i, and i beleive this car had 900bhp??
I remember reading about it when max power did the feature on the car. Maybe you should ring Ross up and ask him how the car was?
Have you thuoght of running your car on e85? this will cool your inlet really low making it so that you dont need w/i?
JUst throwing a few ideas towards you but dont hold anything i say in high regard as i am only recomending things from what i have learnt from talking to other people. I am a complete novice on rotaries, and turbo technology.
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;688060I am prety sure dragon performance ran their camo car on t88 turbo, no intercooler, running aquamist w/i, and i beleive this car had 900bhp??
I remember reading about it when max power did the feature on the car. Maybe you should ring Ross up and ask him how the car was?
Have you thuoght of running your car on e85? this will cool your inlet really low making it so that you dont need w/i?
JUst throwing a few ideas towards you but dont hold anything i say in high regard as i am only recomending things from what i have learnt from talking to other people. I am a complete novice on rotaries, and turbo technology.
I was having a think about E85, but I would need to fit inlet heaters to stop the fuel freezing in the intake, my ECU can map for the E85, perhaps I can have a look at maybe running meths instead of a 50/50 mix for the WI, I think I will run an intercooler, its an easier route, I do like the top mount, but I will be changing the mechanical PS pump for an electric one and running an electric fan so I can run a different intercooler setup, hmmm
you dont need to run inlet heaters at all for e85, there are thousands of people running it on piston and rotary vehicles all over the world and ive never heard of you needing to run heaters.
running pure methanol then maybe i could understand the possibility of needing it but again apart from a view massive power v8 drag cars running meth its doubtful you would need to worry about that.
personally you want the air and fuel as cool as possible if you arnt running an intercooler to keep det away.
if you run e85 you will be fine on low boost and run pure meth for high boost(im not talking meth injection, i mean meth not petrol)
if you do look at e85 or meth remember you will need massive injectors(extra 25% more fuel for e85 and 250% more fuel for meth)
It all depends what your gonna be using the car for?
if your using it only for drag then map it purely on meth, if your using is as a daily then just use petrol with an intercooler as thats easy. if you want to ditch the cooler then run petrol and pure meth injection....you will need to add a big ratio of petrol/meth to make it effective, no point just adding 200cc of the stuff
Hell since methanol is so cheap i wouldnt mind running it pure as its only 50p a litre, since my car is used just at weekends i dont mind spitting flames out everywhere
more likely though ill run it pure as a pre-turbo injection as seen my indycars to add onto my pump fuel.
Quote from: m1tch;687947Hi all, I have just been chatting to Prof about this, I know that Tim @ RX motors runs his 1st gen with a mahoosive turbo with no IC, just Wi that turns on at a certain boost level to cool the charge.
ill think you\'ll find he does run a cooler now (all be it a small one) WI and i think e85
c
Fit a proper intercooler and dont use a interwarmer on top .. there is no use in running without a cooler if you arent going to run a big ignition system and run it on E85 or meth
if your worried about lag and piping sort yourself witha vmount set up
The IC I have at the moment is very efficient and takes ages to heat soak due to the thickness, after a short drive around the inlet of the IC is warm, core is tepid and the outlet is stone cold lol
I will probably be putting some heat shielding under the IC after I have taken out most of the vac rack to allow the space for the airflow - much like the OEM intercooler that has a plate under it.
I am thinking of a V mount or a C mount though, I will be removing the mechanical PS pump and go to electric along with the water pump and will have an electric rad fan so I can get the best and shortest routing for any pipework :)