guys, this is just a quick experiment to see if my calculations are anywhere near correct for mine! basicaly, if you could tell me what turbo you are running and at what pressure I\'ll work things back on the compressor maps & see what BHP you should be pushing. as long as I can find the maps for your blower ;)
Please don\'t state your BHP as I want to post the figure the calculations come out with for you guys to look at & see if they are prety close or miles out ;) . basicaly I want to check to see if I\'m working things out correct for my set up ;)
Cheers
Jono
t78 33d 1.15 bar boost
Garret GT40 1.25 bar boost
t04r with .84 hotside 1barish
turbo compressor maps are totally different on a rotary but ill give it go anyways as i fancy a giggle
gt4202 1.28 hotside .9bar
GT35r 1.06, ported shroud, T4 divided inlet. Plan to run 1.3bar ish.
Sweet, I\'ll have a play with these later aslong as I can find the maps for each turbo ;) I presume that you all know the actual BHP of your cars?? No need for the hot side sizes... just working on turbo air flow rates at the mo ;)
MX1311: the turbo maps are exactly the same... it\'s just the number you punch in are slightly diff with a rotary... slightly less bhp per Lb of air flowed than a piston, hence why we need bigger tubbys ;)
Cheers guys
jono
hi i have a T62 turbo running at 0.95 bar dynoed at 426bhp, on street ports.
Try me, T88, 1.2 bar (although this isn\'t bolted on yet I am interested to see what you come up with!)
was running t88 34d
now running borg warner s475 1.32 t6 housing :evillaugh
OK here goes:
T78: No compressor maps for this online :(
GT40 @1.25bar:
54 trim: 476bhp peak tourque between 5250 & 5900
50 trim 422bhp peak tourque between 4800 & 6200
56 trim: 461 peak tourque between5300 & 5800
T04R: No maps again :(
GT4202 @ 0.9bar:
53 trim: 561 bhp peak tourque between 4700 & 5500
56 trim: 530 bhp peak tourque between 4500 & 5800
GT35R @ 1.3 bar:
469 bhp peak tourque between 5300 & 6200
T62 No maps :(
T88 @ 1.2bar:
Think I got this wrong LOL ...... 900 bhp!!!!
How far away sre they guys??
Jono
The T88 should be making about 650 probably, to get nearer to the 900 mark with a 13b you need a GT45...and 36psi of boost :)
Cant see it making 650@1.2bar (650@1.2bar)
wow jono your not far off my t88 made 880bhp at 1.2bar
Quote from: rbs14a;675160wow jono your not far off my t88 made 880bhp at 1.2bar
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::Giggle:Giggle you wish lol
how are the others looking?? I thought that was the black sheep when I saw the compressor map..... & the figures were very hard to read on it as it was a thumbnail size image :(
Quote from: lee mills;675161:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::Giggle:Giggle you wish lol
your right lee :WaveBye gotta love these threads though haha:rollin
youd be hard pushed to make 650hp from a t88 at 1.2bar im not going to put a figure on it but it wont be any where near that the heat build up at higher boost levels on the t88 is an issue me and james willday both have expirience of this
how about the borg warner s475 ???
470 seems a fair whack from a 35r - I\'d expect it to be more 420/430.
Is this American RWHP? :D
Quote from: rbs14a;675166your right lee :WaveBye gotta love these threads though haha:rollin
Yeah they seem to be coming thick and fast at the moment:yes:Giggle
hope they dont turn up to pod or we\'ll have some serious competition :rollin
Quote from: SiH;675168Is this American RWHP? :D
hello simon dont know about american rwhp sounds like american b*llocks though
well that seems about right for 1.3bar, one guy on here made 400bhp on 0.9bar on a stock port.
so id imagine with 0.4bar more and a bigger port 470bhp is achievable Si....not rwhp of course lol
what do you get for this turbo at 2bar.
its on a big streetport so dont know how you will put that into your equation
Compressor wheel - 74.68mm/100.07mm 100lbs/min
Turbine wheel - 83mm/74mm
Compressor inlet - 5" hose
Compressor outlet - 4.21 v band
Turbine Inlet - Divided TV91 (T6)
Turbine Outlet - 5" v band
a/r 1.10
Figures should be flywheel bhp.
Turbo toaster, That one comes out at 653
basicaly the calculation gives you a thearetical Max bhp.... basicaly using the maps to see the max flow rate at a given pressure ratio, then multiplying that by the 7.69bhp (rough rotary figure) per Lb of air flow produced by the turbo. but that doesn\'t mean the engine can flow that much so figures can be way out on the bigger stuff!
Jono
to be fair si col made 400hp on stock ports at 0.9 with the oldones touch on your ports you wont be far from mid to high 400s
ooh, i\'ll play along
T04E 57 trim or was it 60?
lets say 1 bar :)
Quote from: Jono FD3;675177Figures should be flywheel bhp.
Turbo toaster, That one comes out at 653
basicaly the calculation gives you a thearetical Max bhp.... basicaly using the maps to see the max flow rate at a given pressure ratio, then multiplying that by the 7.69bhp (rough rotary figure) per Lb of air flow produced by the turbo. but that doesn\'t mean the engine can flow that much so figures can be way out on the bigger stuff!
Jono
so if this turbo has done 671flywheel bhp on 22.5psi of boost on a streetport what are your thoughts on that, his dyno is wrong or something else, this wasnt USA by the way
100lbs is 1000bhp in piston money or 769bhp in rotary, you saying we would need to run about 3bar to achieve that figure?
comes out at 376bhp @1 bar
Try this one T51 kai 1.4bar
ill give you my thoughts - give up with these stupid calculations, talk to real people/tuners first hand see what their thoughts are you have to remember these people making all this power arent going to tell you everything as its probably cost them alot of time and money.
thats the thing, these calcs dont take into consideration porting, inlet manifold design, downpipe size, inlet temps, how aggressive the timing is, fuel.
Many different factors to take into consideration.
whats your equation your using?
good thread, be interesting to see if you can take port size into consideration and see how much differance there is.
looks like i\'ll be looking to get a gt40 or gt35r in the future :)
Quote from: turbotoaster;675191thats the thing, these calcs dont take into consideration porting, inlet manifold design, downpipe size, inlet temps, how aggressive the timing is, fuel.
Many different factors to take into consideration.
whats your equation your using?
the equation ill use is the one on the dyno there\'s too many variables to get any where near an accurate figure :rolleyes:
Quote from: turbotoaster;675184so if this turbo has done 671flywheel bhp on 22.5psi of boost on a streetport what are your thoughts on that, his dyno is wrong or something else, this wasnt USA by the way
100lbs is 1000bhp in piston money or 769bhp in rotary, you saying we would need to run about 3bar to achieve that figure?
??? which figure ??? 1000bhp?
I\'m only trying to see how accurate this is before I start looking in to my turbo setup. no point going to all the agro in building a set up then find out the calculation method is all wrong after fitting the turbo.
it\'s not all down to pressure produced by the turbo, it\'s the amount fo air being pushed out by it that this calculation works on. It\'s only to give you an idea if the turbo will be suitable for the job rather than giving accurate BHP figures. but having said that, it doesn\'t look to be a million miles out on the <500bhp set ups??
Jono
You got to get your car back first Liam:Giggle:Thumbsup!
Quote from: turbotoaster;675174well that seems about right for 1.3bar, one guy on here made 400bhp on 0.9bar on a stock port.
so id imagine with 0.4bar more and a bigger port 470bhp is achievable Si....not rwhp of course lol
There are also a lot of people making 430ish on reasonable size ports at the 1.2-1.3 level it seems.
Who made 400 at 0.9 bar? And on which Dyno ?
EDIT: Just seen Rob\'s post - looks like I may be in for a surprise with my pessemistic estimates :D
TBH there arso many variables, even down to the shape of the ports, it just seems impossible to ge close - the bigger the tub, the more the variation.
Put a Giant Borg Warner on a totally stock motor, it\'ll make x bhp, put it on one with ported exhaust, intakes, manifold, various flow changes, IC, etc etc, differnt map, and surely the difference will be huge. Heck, surely even the AR of the turbo makes a massive difference.
I couldn\'t care less - go fast, make lovely noise, drive the car in the real world, job done:) I\'ll leave the calculations at work :D
But hey, stock, or barely increased ports, massive turbos - it\'s the way to go.
si im sure col made 400hp at 1 bar on weston perf dyno dynamics that was on his self tweak map a few years back now
Ninja edit :D
I\'m just being really pessemistic about what I\'ll get, then I can be pleasantly surprised when it goes even quicker :D
i think you will be pretty happy to be fair buddy, 1.3bar with a ported engine will go really well, who is doing your mapping?
After a bit of a look around I have found out that the Americans measuer a special "Imaginery" bhp on their dyno\'s and as a result the figures calculated are about above are 15% greater than they should be!!
Like said, yes I know there are alot of variables to take into account, but as a rough estemate it doesn\'t apear to be far out with the 15% removed??
Jono
yeh, to be fair it seems most of them use dynojet for rolling roads which even they admit read really high, every so often they do use dyno-dymamics rollers and claim always add 15% for dynojet.
I do wonder why they continue to use rollers that give out falsely high readings, if you knew that it was producing high numbers you would surely just either calibrate the software to give a closer reading or do some simple maths before you give the number out.
one thing i found common is there whp figure is our flywheel figure to give you an idea of how they are doing.
does you figures assume the maximum a/r ratio, ie a 100lb turbo wont flow 100lb with a .86 rear housing because its to restrictive and the exhaust gases back up, but will with a 1.32
I like stuff like this so its interesting to talk about, have a read of a couple of these threads, i know they are american figures but cool none the less.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=478915
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=869614
To be honest with you... I couldn\'t tell you! LOL
I\'ve only been working on the compressor side & using the max flow rates so far! got to pluck up the courage to look at the hot side before I start hunting!!
Before this I knew nothing about turbos themselves...... only slightly better off now mind, but the little bits soon add up to an insite of how things work ;) LOL
GT3582 @ 1.0 bar
Jono,
What do your maths say a GT4094 would deliver at 20psi on a control 13B? My figures say a potential 400bhp, with 28psi (ouch) required for 500bhp - do you concur...?
Trying to work out the effects of bridge/street/pp on that - not there yet but sure the fog can be lifted (at least for assumed template specs).
S.
id say more than that stacy, a guy used a gt4088 which did 479bhp at 1bar and 530 at 1.3bar on a streetport in the uk.
since your running a bigger compressor wheel and 1.35bar id take a guess at 550bhp, if your running a big streetport.
on 2bar of boost that turbo will flow 80lb of air, so that about 630bhp for a rotary.
there is a guy on fduk running 1.6bar on that turbo and he says his is running over 570bhp so it sounds about right.
be interesting to see what jono comes up with if its close to them figures
if the 80lb of air is correct, you could get up to 615, but more likely to be about the 520 mark
when you say control 13b stacy, is that mean its unable to be internally modified, also is it an fd or fc engine?
Quote from: stacy;678866Jono,
What do your maths say a GT4094 would deliver at 20psi on a control 13B? My figures say a potential 400bhp, with 28psi (ouch) required for 500bhp - do you concur...?
Trying to work out the effects of bridge/street/pp on that - not there yet but sure the fog can be lifted (at least for assumed template specs).
S.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:2Rolleyes