I already have an RX7 and thought it would be fun to get my MX5 rotorised. It\'s currently up at WGT getting the existing engine removed in preparation.
The basic plan with the engine is
- Used series 1 engine from a low mileage rolled car, will be compression tested
- Decat, custom exhaust and intake to fit MX5 engine bay (pre-95 import so legal for MOT)
- Washer bottle for TCW3 supply to oil metering pump (managed by EOMP controller, AUS company)
- Adaptronic ECU, mapped for V-power, 99 octane
- Lots of sensors (Wideband, oil/air/water temps, MAP)
- MX5 alternator and P/S pump (possible depower the rack)
- Walbro fuel pump
- PWR race radiator
- Oil cooler may be front-mounted or a oil/water laminova core (TBD)
- A/C removed
So some questions for the experts here:
- Given the fact that I can set the oil metering rate with a standalone, do I still need to premix?
- Before the engine goes in, are there any useful hp gains to be had with port matching, polishing or anything else without opening up the block?
Jon.
No you wont need to premix if you have control over the OMP with your chosen standalone.
No real gains as the 6 port on the Renesis 231bhp engine are already very large, turbo or supercharging it will net bigger gains or bang for buck.
Make sure the ECU you have chosen can control the aux intake ports opening up at a set rpm.
Quote from: BlitzBoy;674506No you wont need to premix if you have control over the OMP with your chosen standalone.
No real gains as the 6 port on the Renesis 231bhp engine are already very large, turbo or supercharging it will net bigger gains or bang for buck.
Make sure the ECU you have chosen can control the aux intake ports opening up at a set rpm.
Tx for the advice, I\'ll leave the premix then. The ECU has enough outputs available for controlling the inlet manifold.
It is the 6-port version. I \'ve read up what I can and also couldn\'t find much worthwhile to do, I just don\'t want to find out after it\'s gone in. The MX5 bay is pretty small so it won\'t leave many options for exhaust routing which could have helped. Maybe there is still room for a small turbo :)
Jon.
If ya really stuck for space a supercharger will defo fit.
Speedline Imports on here has rotorised his MX5, he has put in a Turbo II rx7 FC lump in, with a bigger turbo, he puts out 237hp odd at the wheels about 290bhp flywheel at only 0.6 bar boost
Quote from: BlitzBoy;674519If ya really stuck for space a supercharger will defo fit.
Speedline Imports on here has rotorised his MX5, he has put in a Turbo II rx7 FC lump in, with a bigger turbo, he puts out 237hp odd at the wheels about 290bhp flywheel at only 0.6 bar boost
The new engine should be fitted up any day now so I should be able to see what space is left over. I think the Renesis may get to almost 200hp at the wheels with decat and 99 octane which is the equivalent power-weight ratio of an rx7 with 260hp at the wheels so it won\'t be slow.
Jon.
Its 262 rwhp @ 0.4bar Blitzy baby!
Jon, look forward to updates both here and on mx5nutz
Martin
wooops, more poweeeerrr then i thought
Apparently, from what I have read anyway, the gains from Porting on the Renesis are to be had from changes to the exhaust port rather than the intake which are very large anyway.
How are you controlling the induction system? It\'s not the simplest of beasts and will limit your power if it\'s not working properly.
Quote from: Will66;675218Apparently, from what I have read anyway, the
How are you controlling the induction system? It\'s not the simplest of beasts and will limit your power if it\'s not working properly.
WGT have used a standalone (DTA?) on a Renesis engine before and said it wouldn\'t be a problem, I didn\'t ask the details but will find out and report back.
Jon.
I suppose for the ultimate porting of a RENESIS would be to drill through those peripheral ports still cast into the rotor casings... 8-)
Quote from: Speedline Imports;674526Its 262 rwhp @ 0.4bar Blitzy baby!
Jon, look forward to updates both here and on mx5nutz
Martin
Quote from: BlitzBoy;674650wooops, more poweeeerrr then i thought
He bolted on my Garrett T04 from a truck :D
YES, I thoroughly recommend you Pre-Mix if you are using Series 1 RENESIS, remember they have NO Centre (Middle) Oil Weeper Nozzle (via MOP), Series 2 Does (2009~).
ALL other Rotaries made in the past 25 years have had a middle Nozzle, except RX-8 Series 1.
Part of the many engine failures have been because of poor compressions because Apex seals are wearing because of next to Zero Metered Oil getting to the middle of Apex Seal.
There is a Guy in Australia who has and IS installing a Renny into a NC 2005 MX-5.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=158121
Oh Yes, there have also seen a few Renny\'s Bridge Ported..
One in South Africa, the other still in progress USA.
DON\'T DO IT.... the guy in South Africa has gone back to stock after engine in/out 5 times.
Bridge has to be perfect, Apex Seal has to be One Piece.....and LUCK.
I know no one who has been successful, yes you can fiddle with the exhaust port a bit...not worth it.
Quote from: RX-8888;693578YES, I thoroughly recommend you Pre-Mix if you are using Series 1 RENESIS, remember they have NO Centre (Middle)
I had looked into that but WGT recommended just upping the injection rate using the EOMP controller.
Is it reasonable to do a compromise where the oil would just be injected into the fuel tank or fuel lines instead. I\'d rather have an automatic solution than have to get oil out on every fill up.
Regarding porting, WGT are just cleaning up the existing ports rather than making them any bigger.
Jon.
Quote from: jpc;695403I had looked into that but WGT recommended just upping the injection rate using the EOMP controller.
Is it reasonable to do a compromise where the oil would just be injected into the fuel tank or fuel lines instead. I\'d rather have an automatic solution than have to get oil out on every fill up.
Regarding porting, WGT are just cleaning up the existing ports rather than making them any bigger.
Jon.
Sorry for the late response, upping the injection rate still does not get oil to the middle of the Apex Seal.
Pre-Mix is the only and easiest way, unless you use S2 Rotor Housings, etc, etc, etc.
How is the project coming along?
Quote from: RX-8888;698693Sorry for the late response, upping the injection rate still does not get oil to the middle of the Apex Seal.
Pre-Mix is the only and easiest way, unless you use S2 Rotor Housings, etc, etc, etc.
How is the project coming along?
I checked with Pip (WGT) on this issue. He has now rebuilt the engine and said there was no extra wear at the middle of the Apex seal, the original seals had worn down evenly. They were replaced anyway and the engine cleaned up. With that info, I\'m happy with direct injection at a higher rate. A washer bottle will be used for this oil with a fill-level warning so I can top up when it runs low without having to check the oil on every fill up.
All the mechanical parts are done, ducting for oil coolers and undertray is done, ECU is being wired up and final fit is happening right now with tuning/debugging due over the next two weeks. One little problem is finding a tach gauge that goes above 9000rpm.
Jon.
Quote from: jpc;698695One little problem is finding a tach gauge that goes above 9000rpm.
Jon.
Defi BF tach gauge goes 11000 rpm
Quote from: BlitzBoy;698696Defi BF tach gauge goes 11000 rpm
Tx. I should just need the dial graphics rather than a standalone gauge.
Quote from: jpc;698695I checked with Pip (WGT) on this issue. He has now rebuilt the engine and said there was no extra wear at the middle of the Apex seal, the original seals had worn down evenly. They were replaced anyway and the engine cleaned up. With that info, I\'m happy with direct injection at a higher rate. A washer bottle will be used for this oil with a fill-level warning so I can top up when it runs low without having to check the oil on every fill up.
All the mechanical parts are done, ducting for oil coolers and undertray is done, ECU is being wired up and final fit is happening right now with tuning/debugging due over the next two weeks. One little problem is finding a tach gauge that goes above 9000rpm.
Jon.
You must have been lucky, I have many engine picks showing concaved Apex Seals in Renny 1\'s, that is why Mazda added a middle injector in Series 2\'s..not enough Oil getting there.
OH, yeah, a Tacho over 9000, did not think of that...tried eBay?
according to my Greedy touch my peak rpms have never exceeded 8250 according to my ecu. Thats a series 1 renesis pushing out 205bhp at rear wheels 238g/sec maf.
So do you really need a tacho that goes about 9k?
Quote from: madder;723992according to my Greedy touch my peak rpms have never exceeded 8250 according to my ecu. Thats a series 1 renesis pushing out 205bhp at rear wheels 238g/sec maf.
So do you really need a tacho that goes about 9k?
With an aftermarket ECU, it is being mapped for 9krpm. I\'ve heard others have gone to 9300rpm but WGT wanted to keep it to 9k.
I came across a company that make custom dials called Metal Monkeys, they are doing a 9krpm MX5 template for me which will then be part of their main product line.
205 at the rear wheel would be good to achieve.
Hi.
Any news on this? How is it going?
John
Quote from: johnnyboy;744424Hi.
Any news on this? How is it going?
John
The car has been running on the road for a few months up at WGT. The final mapping was being done and the power was up 10% on a standard RX8 but died off at high-rpms. This was tracked down to excess backpressure in the exhaust header (5psi) so they have been redesigning it. Once that is done, its just the traction and cruise control to connect up.
There is a thread on mx5nutz with all the gory details.