Hi there,
I have a Devilsown WI kit, but I don\'t have any nozzles, I am going to want this plumbed in before I fit the T88, I mean it won\'t hurt to run it when the stock turbo is going full chat :) plus it will steam clean my rotors lol
On 0.9 bar on the T88 it will probably be mid 400bhp ish, what nozzle size should I run? I will be running the water injection on the last bent before the compression tube as I am going flat mounted IC I don\'t want the water pooling up in the bottom of the system!
Should I run 2 smaller jets or one larger jet? What size should I go for?
2 smaller jets is my opting. You can run them in parallel :)
What size jetting should I get? it will be plugged into my e-manage to come on at a certain boost etc
If you know what your air flow is or fuel flow, then you can work out how much water you want - based on percentage. I\'ve heard upto 20% as long as it doesn\'t quench your ignition.
I\'m going to be working on about 10-15% water in the charge.
Nozzle size will vary dependant on what pressure you are running it at - don\'t forget to subtract boost pressure from that - e.g if the nozzle flows x at 100 psi, but you have 15 psi boost - then you\'ve now only got 85 psi water pressure relative - so make sure you know what the flow rate is at that pressure.
Some vendors size their nozzles based on HP - Cooling mist say 0.6mm for upto 350bhp (they run around 100-150 psi)
Too much?
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41366000/jpg/_41366578_cannon_ap416.jpg)
Lol>>>>>>>>>
Where would be a good supplier? Most seem to be in the states lol
depends really, are you pre turbo, post turbo or post intercooler as that will have an affect on how much water you can use
Post intercooler, I am going to be running a flat mount so if it was pre-turbo the water might pool in the intercooler as it won\'t be able to fight the gravity of going vertically up into the compression tube lol
no it wouldnt pool in the intercooler, why would you think that, if an intercooler was in a traditional front mount setup your logic says that it would all be sat at the bottom of the cooler.
if you were running it pre-turbo id say 250cc on stock turbo and 500cc on t88 aslong as you have a twinpower.
post intercooler id go lower, say 200cc stock and 300cc on t88.
Mitch - don\'t think about WI as water coming out of a tap. It\'s a highly atomized mix of air/water that results from a good pressure source/nozzle - so to all intents and purposes it will behave like a gas. It would only pool if your pressure drops and atomisation stops.
excuse my ignorance but surely injecting water close to intake reduces its chances of cooling the air efficiently. i`ve heard of people who have had wi in greddy elbow having detonation from the water wetting the spark
if it was injected just after the turbo surely it would have better cooling effects as it would have more time to cool the air
yes, spraying it into the hottest place will cause the largest drop in temps, plus because of the higher temps you can inject more.
I think pre-turbo is the best place as the compressor blades help to atomise the air better, then post turbo, then post intercooler id class as the worst.
Surely it would be best to inject post turbo, pre intercooler then, as the air isn\'t compressed and heated pre turbo, so surely if it is cooled just after it is compressed and at its highest temperature it would be best?
I will be having a custom ignition system installed in my car, so I can run WI fine :)
I will probably run a 50/50 mix from a tank insulated in the boot.
agree with mitch here. if the water is atomized anyhow. i cant see how preturbo can help. logic to spray cold stuff at the hottest point. ( turbo outlet~ pre intercooler) how much difference does 50/50 mix make. does it require more fuel.
am i right in thinking meth has oxygen molicules attatched to the fuel which is released on ignition??
or am i talking out my Ar$e
I think a 50/50 mix is the most you can go before you need it mapped different, I know if you run 100% meths a remap will be needed, although my E-manage Ultimate can tune itself lol so yes the meths acts as a high octane fuel :)
I have never been a fan of pre turbo WI as its a bit like throwing tiny hammers at a fast spinning blade, like bird strike on a jet engine.
the reason you run pre turbo water is when you start to push a turbo, ie over 1bar.
the reason a turbo runs out of power is because it goes past its efficiency range, ie as you turn the boost up the air gets to hot and loses its volume.
So by spraying it pre turbo you are infact cooling the compressor housing and wheel aswell as using the charge to cool the air passing towards the throttle body.
post turbo is good if your not pushing the turbo and pre turbo is if you are, these are only my opinions though.
as mitch mentioned hes only gonna run baby boost so im sure he will be fine
ahh i see.. so pre turbo is like a turbo housing cooler as well as air cooler.. got ya
The turbo is air cooled though :rollin
I will be running the T88 at 1.2bar ultimatly, its rated to 2.3bar lol
The OEM turbo runs out of its efficency range at 0.9bar ish so I will be running WI on the OEM turbo to reduce the chance of det.
I might also run cryogenics on the intercooler, would that negitivly effect the WI system or would the meths act like antifreeze?
well water cools a bit better than air lol
you got any pictures of your intercooler setup?
is the cryo thing basically co2 spray, it wont effect your wi system, unless the air going through your intercooler suddenly goes into a minus figure on boost which i think is pretty much impossible
Quote from: turbotoaster;665805well water cools a bit better than air lol
you got any pictures of your intercooler setup?
is the cryo thing basically co2 spray, it wont effect your wi system, unless the air going through your intercooler suddenly goes into a minus figure on boost which i think is pretty much impossible
I don\'t have the setup yet, but its set like the MR2s, the turbo outlet will be pointing down into the intercooler, along where the undertray is and up to the compression tube.
Its liquid CO2, so the intercooler will get frosty when operating:
(http://www.streetandcircuit-shop.biz/ekmps/shops/intereuro/resources/Image/intercooler-sprayer.jpg)
nah you will be fine going pre intercooler, your inlet temps will be over 100c so they wont drop to a minus figure
Unless I run E85 hehe
So if I run pre intercooler, shall I run with 2 X 0.6mm if 1 can cope with up to 350bhp?
depends, are we talking after or before you do your custom ignition system?
Most of the \'cooling\' effect from the water is in the combustion chamber - it robs heat from the combustion process to evaporate the water and slows down the flame speed. This means you can run higher boost before hitting detonation.
It will have a limited ability to cool the intake charge - obviously the earlier it\'s injected the more time it will have to reduce temps, but this is using waters high latent heat capacity - 4200j / Kg / C
The latent heat of evaporation is 2270 Kj / Kg / C (over 500 times as much).
It\'s much harder to heat up water than say - Meths - due to other factors like vapor pressue and so on, which is why people use meths as a cooler.
Meths still has quite a high latent heat of evaporation - about 1100 Kj / Kg / C so still works well in the combusion chamber - plus it\'s also a fuel - water isn\'t. It\'s specific latent heat capacity is 1400j / Kg / C so about 1/4 of water\'s - but it evaporates more readily due to it\'s vapor pressure so is a better air cooler than water.
There is no denying that meths is a good cooler of the intake charge - but the big gains are in the combustion chamber - and water really does win there.
Incidentally - fuel is also used to cool the combustion temperatures - that\'s why turbo cars run horribly rich in an attempt to stave off detonation. Injecting Meths, Water or a mix means you can lean out the fuel mixture towards stoich and get some power gain, but make sure you have a safety net if the charge injection cooling fails.
Oh and someone said if the spark is quenched it could lead to detonation - it shouldn\'t - as the spark is quenched - but you\'ll get ignition occuring outside the engine (turbo, exhaust system, exhaust exit) when it hits hot enough parts to ignite.
Injecting anything into the air and/or compressing the air itself will result in a denser charge and this will require a stronger igniton.
i have 600 cc post i/c with t88 no probs
Where can I get nozzles from? Are there any good online sites? can\'t find any on the bay of E lol
Hope this helps
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=bc212720329b10067dcbd24fe7d9af84
Ooo the devilsown UK site lol how did I not find that lol
Shall I run this:
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=45
Need 1 of these:
http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=58
What is the name of the nozzle? I will run 2 nozzles for better atomisation?
Can some guys post up some picsof their water injection setups ??
Quote from: 12at;666101Can some guys post up some picsof their water injection setups ??
+1 on the setups