Look what i found below......................in a forum?
"I\'ve been through so many of these V8 RX7 vs Rotary RX7 threads it\'s sick.
Fact: An LS1 power RX7 is faster (Quarter mile and autoX verified)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 is more reliable (compared to a rotary 13B of equal power)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 gets better MPG (compared to a rotary 13B of equal power)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 has lower emissions (It\'s ODBCII, RX7 isn\'t)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 has the same weight as a rotary power one.
Fact: 99% of rotary fans get butt hurt at the mention of an engine in their beloved RX7\'s that\'s better than the apex seal eating, overheating, no torque, crappy fuel economy 13B rotary turbo. "
Thing is guys im on the verge of jibbing my rotary and going with a V8. Spent too much, time and money, 4 engines blown, 3 years, 15mpg ave.
I have learnt an awful lot but im starting to think even the best tuned and maintained rotary wont last 10k with me driving it.
I will miss the rotary if i do decide to go to the darkside.
Just telling you the truth dudes
im sure i read that a a ls7 fully dressed is heavier than a 13b fully dressed...
personally i like v8\'s just not in rx7\'s lol, i feel that a rx7 was designed with a rotary for a reason... its like its soul... if you take that away and fit a v8... it becomes a ....... lol... its a bit like the royal family... they .... everyone off in the uk.. but without them it wouldnt be the same?
my view is they might be true but, when i went for a rx-7, i wanted it because of the looks and the noise!
if someone wants a reliable car, then why go for a rx-7 if the first place with all the stories that go around with them being bad engines, i mean most people have a daily runner then the rx is a weekend fun toy!
if you want a v8, then buy a muscle car!
i look at it like this:
Fact: An LS1 power RX7 is faster (okay might have more torque, but, round bends, like the car was built for it will be ....)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 is more reliable (go buy a new family car)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 gets better MPG (go buy a prius)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 has lower emissions (who really cares about that?)
Fact: An LS1 RX7 has the same weight as a rotary power one. ( i would love to see the two go on scales at the same time as i find it very hard to believe
go buy a prius if u want reliability, economy and save the earth
Im not a fan of having pistons in a rotary car, its called a Rotary eXperimental for a reason, but I guess its up to you,
Someone has wrecked a 1st gen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayZLQEhkKTc
Wrecked a 2nd gen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO_gUrvZqsw
Wrecked a 3rd gen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpvPwbG41PI
So its been done before, but its up to you, I guess you can import more parts from the US
Quote from: ad4m1;665261go buy a prius if u want reliability, economy and save the earth
Don\'t lol they create more harmfull emissions by producing it than a land rover lol best to buy a car thats already made :) like an FC :D
It\'s really very simple. There\'s a time and a place for big V8, and it\'s here;
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/Mopar%20nationals%2025%2007%2009/DSCF4166.jpg)
Or here;
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/Mopar%20nationals%2025%2007%2009/DSCF4233.jpg)
Or here;
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/Misc%20car%20pics/InterceptorSide.jpg)
But NOT here;
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/Japshow%20Finale%204%2010%2009/DSCF5886.jpg)
Or here;
(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Nik_da_Greek/Japshow%20Finale%204%2010%2009/DSCF5751.jpg)
To think otherwise is quite simply a sin against God and Mazda. I suggest you have a good long think about what you\'ve just said, and go and stand in the corner till you can behave properly :rollin
Although if he did put a V8 in, it wouldn\'t be into an RX7, it would be a V8-7 :)
This is where a V8 should be:
(http://www.hutchinson.com.au/images/April06/10BHsMadMaxCarAtPub.gif)
Or maybe bolted to the bottom of a train supercharger (yes it did run)
(http://www.classicnation.com/pictures/images/car_shows/classic_cars/supercharger.jpg)
On here:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Half-way-through-the-the_119334.htm
^^^^ that\'s a horrible thing to do to a perfectly good Challenger :eek:
....or is it a Camaro?
Quote from: m1tch;665279Although if he did put a V8 in, it wouldn\'t be into an RX7, it would be a V8-7 :)
This is where a V8 should be:
(http://www.hutchinson.com.au/images/April06/10BHsMadMaxCarAtPub.gif)
Or maybe bolted to the bottom of a train supercharger (yes it did run)
(http://www.classicnation.com/pictures/images/car_shows/classic_cars/supercharger.jpg)
On here:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Half-way-through-the-the_119334.htm
WTF!!!!!Adam
Its a Camero, frieght train supercharger, it did run, he blipped the throttle and blew both head gaskets :rollin
That was a good bit of design and planning then :3Confused
Im not quite sure what a head gasket is, but I think if one (or it seems 2 in this case) of them blow, the engine doesn\'t work anymore *scratches head* ah well, only undo a few bolts and unstack the engine and then do the bolts up again and its fully rebuilt yes?
Piston engines are rather more complicated I think lol and you can\'t just bolt on intake and exhaust mods and get 50% above stock like my FC has done lol
i think that video explains it perfectly... v8\'s are for rednecks lol
It\'s your car, do whatever you like to it :)
.....just don\'t expect us rotorheads to go all goey eyed and moist over it :Giggle
That supercharger is hilarious. Good work that man.:eek:
If you want a V8 just go for one, I didn\'t want a performance piston car due to the extra costs of a highly tuned engine, a rotary doesn\'t need forged internals, uprated valve trains, adjustable cam pulleys, high lift cams, uprated valve springs etc, as long as a rotery engine is built well and doesn\'t run more than 1.2 bar of boost it will last ages. All you need for more power is a bigger turbo, more porting and more fueling :D I bought my T88 as its really rather huge, which means that it will only need to be on low boost to get the power I am looking for, im building my car so that no part of it is stressed to the max, that way there is always a safety net :)
i\'m going to buck the trend here and say that V8 power in an RX7 can be quite cool. obviously, sticking in a big old Ford block made of pig iron is stupid and ridiculous.
LS motors (at least, the ones with ali head and block) are only a tiny bit heavier than than a 13b, fully dressed or not and if the weight is that much of a problem you can always compensate by binning a bit of interior trim. the weight balance doesn\'t really change much, maybe by a couple of percent forward and i doubt it really does that much to the centre of gravity. I\'d be really interested to see someone shoehorn an LS7 or an LS3 into an RX7, the Corvette ZR1 is the fastest production car around the nurburgring last time i checked so it\'d be cool to see what that engine can do in the 7\'s chassis.
at the end of the day it\'s what you like. as much as i like the idea of a swapped V8, i bought the the car for the ....el and despite the fact it\'s less reliable I like the quirks and I like the character.
If you want a reliable, economic, low emmison, high torque engine with hardly any revs why fit an ls v8. Why not save all th money and fit a diesel?
This debate will always run and you\'ll get responses from both camps.
When I bought my first 3rd gen seven years ago I fell in love with the car.
The power plant was secondary, I\'d have still been in love with the shape had it been piston driven, but that\'s my take, others love the rotary concept as always it\'s each to their own.
I don\'t agree with this logic
QuoteIf you want a reliable, economic, low emmison, high torque engine with hardly any revs why fit an ls v8. Why not save all th money and fit a diesel?
How many rx7 owners would swap for an NSU RO80, not got quite the same street cred as a 7 but rotary
I\'m just having an engine transplant in the T11 I recently bought and I hope it turns out to be reliable.
If not I have a V8 Lexus on standby and won\'t hesitate to go that way.
bah depends what kinda engine you want. Ive always understood that higher revving engines are better for track.
also the v8\'s just sound wrong when you hear them coming from an fd
I started a thread on this subject some time ago. I\'m a fan of this conversion
^^^^ cool lets change the name of this club to MazdaLS1Club lmao
Personally I dont give fduk what people do to their cars its up to them.
I like rotarys and their high reving nature and plenty of power and easy to mod for bigger power for their small size. My choice.
The v8 rx7 guys have their own forum for their choice. Simples lol
Quote from: BlitzBoy;665378^^^^ cool lets change the name of this club to MazdaLS1Club lmao
Personally I dont give fduk what people do to their cars its up to them.
I like rotarys and their high reving nature and plenty of power and easy to mod for bigger power for their small size. My choice.
The v8 rx7 guys have their own forum for their choice. Simples lol
I agree with blitz.
MazdaLS1club good one... you do have a sense of humour lol
This is why i have a V8 in my Mazda...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSdyLs_Ox6U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6sanQN8hk&feature=channel
You\'d have to be dead inside to not love that...
^^^^^ Sounds like a Corvette... sounds like any other zzzzz American V8
This is why I have a Mazda Rotary inside my Mazda Rx7
This is where its at.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eb6uoyRIG8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLhJFKtDQdk
I got nothing against putting the engine from one car into another - but it\'s nice to try and stay jap or stay yank.
I think many have said it - the sole of the Rx7 is the engine - but the looks of the car are drop dead gorgeous - so I can see the appeal of putting a big piston lump in.
Personally if I had lolly to throw at a conversion on an FD - it would be getting a 20b - I know it\'s been done before, but I suspect perhaps not the way I have in mind. If funds ever allowed it would get built for sure - I may try the baby brother idea on a 1st gen. :driving
As for reliability - I think the Rx8 has made some good advances on behalf of the rotary - and if you want a low carbon footprint - run a hydrogen rotary - no CO2 there !:cool
As for fuel economy - it\'s a sports car - isn\'t that almost a mutual exclusive ? :Laugh
I agree and think it\'s good that ppl have their own idea of what they want
It does seem that the V8 can give performance + economy - as quoted from a sale ad on here
Rotary Menace
QuoteI\'m currently driving it as a daily drive as my Jeeps bottom end has gone and it is totally reliable does 25mpg while delivering 523bhp.
The main reasons im considering it is that i want it to be a daily driver. Im sick of driving my lpg focus to work feeling miserable im also sick of the rx7 being on axle stands. and doing 15mpg. If i can drive a car every day that looks like an rx7 is fast as an rx7 with good reliabilty and economy
i can make it lpg with the kit i already have) big plus. It will be 10mpg more on the m,way and fuel will be half price.
It will be a damn sight quicker than a prius.
I suppose when i install ice i can play a cd of rotary engine noises.
It\'s true that the Yanks can build an awesome engine but have never quite got the idea of making a good car to put it in, so a marriage of the beautiful FD and fat great V8 would seem a logical one....but this was, last time I looked, the Mazda Rotary Club. Why are you telling us about your desire for a V8? Who cares? If we cared about fuel economy, none of us would have bought a goddmaned rotary car in the first place. You use the fuel, you fill the tank what happens in between is called fun and it\'s hard to put a price on that.
The power delivery characteristics of a V8 and a rotary are so totally different there\'s no point in even discussing it. If you wanna do it, fine, but I for one am sick to death of people deciding to build a V8 and then going on some sorta crusade to convince everyone else that theirs is the one path to righteousness. To be fair, Kriss, you\'ve not done this and I repsect your reasons for wanting to change but I don\'t see why these threads always have to attract the zealots telling us how wonderful V8s are. Fine. I\'m happy for you. Now, go away and stop bending my ear about it. Leave me to enjoy my rotary forum, thanks
Quote from: Nik da Greek;665402It\'s true that the Yanks can build an awesome engine but have never quite got the idea of making a good car to put it in, so a marriage of the beautiful FD and fat great V8 would seem a logical one....but this was, last time I looked, the Mazda Rotary Club. Why are you telling us about your desire for a V8? Who cares? If we cared about fuel economy, none of us would have bought a goddmaned rotary car in the first place. You use the fuel, you fill the tank what happens in between is called fun and it\'s hard to put a price on that.
The power delivery characteristics of a V8 and a rotary are so totally different there\'s no point in even discussing it. If you wanna do it, fine, but I for one am sick to death of people deciding to build a V8 and then going on some sorta crusade to convince everyone else that theirs is the one path to righteousness. To be fair, Kriss, you\'ve not done this and I repsect your reasons for wanting to change but I don\'t see why these threads always have to attract the zealots telling us how wonderful V8s are. Fine. I\'m happy for you. Now, go away and stop bending my ear about it. Leave me to enjoy my rotary forum, thanks
Erm Im Not going anywhere. Im just discussing options with people. You didnt have to read and dont have to read these threads if they upset you.
You shouldnt be reading this thread if it upsets you. You should get MRC to filter out V8 threads so rotary owners who talk about possibilities (like me) dont upset you anymore. Or maybe set the forum up so they are automatically flagged and deleted.
Im on no crusade. I own a rotary and have for 4 years. Just banding some ideas and options about. jeeeze:3Confused
Did you actually read what I wrote?
Quote from: Nik da Greek;665402To be fair, Kriss, you\'ve not done this and I repsect your reasons for wanting to change but I don\'t see why these threads always have to attract the zealots telling us how wonderful V8s are.
However, if you
want an argument, then I\'d reiterate that this is the Mazda
Rotary Club, not the FD with the random engine of your choice club. There are no doubt plenty of forums dedicated to just such nonsense. I don\'t expect to have to filter out threads about V8 conversions any more than I expect to find threads about people wanting to ask about tyre choice for their 200SX on here. You presented your OP in as provocative a fashion as possible, and now when you get a response you don\'t like, you run crying telling people not to read your thread if they don\'t like it. What was the point of that particular excercise, then? Since your other current thread is about you butchering some HIDs in a desparate (failed) attempt to get them to fit your car I might suggest that if you confined your mechanical enthusiasm to stuff more approximate to your ability then perhaps your rotary engine might not have failed quite so much and you would not therefore feel the need to irritate people with this thread.
However, it\'s your thread and you can be as random and childish as you like on it. I certainly shall be having no further involvement, and if anyone in authority should deem there is anything in what I have said that is unjustified or unreasonable, they can feel free to sanction it with my blessing. Bye. Enjoy your life
Quote from: Nik da Greek;665408Did you actually read what I wrote?
However, if you want an argument, then I\'d reiterate that this is the Mazda Rotary Club, not the FD with the random engine of your choice club. There are no doubt plenty of forums dedicated to just such nonsense. I don\'t expect to have to filter out threads about V8 conversions any more than I expect to find threads about people wanting to ask about tyre choice for their 200SX on here. You presented your OP in as provocative a fashion as possible, and now when you get a response you don\'t like, you run crying telling people not to read your thread if they don\'t like it. What was the point of that particular excercise, then? Since your other current thread is about you butchering some HIDs in a desparate (failed) attempt to get them to fit your car I might suggest that if you confined your mechanical enthusiasm to stuff more approximate to your ability then perhaps your rotary engine might not have failed quite so much and you would not therefore feel the need to irritate people with this thread.
However, it\'s your thread and you can be as random and childish as you like on it. I certainly shall be having no further involvement, and if anyone in authority should deem there is anything in what I have said that is unjustified or unreasonable, they can feel free to sanction it with my blessing. Bye. Enjoy your life
I did read your thread and it came accross like you were having a go hence my response. I feel your latest response is even more so confrontational.
Im not going to add anymore fuel to your fire.
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;665399The main reasons im considering it is that i want it to be a daily driver. Im sick of driving my lpg focus to work feeling miserable im also sick of the rx7 being on axle stands. and doing 15mpg. If i can drive a car every day that looks like an rx7 is fast as an rx7 with good reliabilty and economy
i can make it lpg with the kit i already have) big plus. It will be 10mpg more on the m,way and fuel will be half price.
It will be a damn sight quicker than a prius.
I suppose when i install ice i can play a cd of rotary engine noises.
Here is my thinking behind why im researching this project.
Also i hope you all realise the original thread the "quote" was from a forum somewhere and not my own words.:Nono!
Tbh join http://www.v8rx7forum.com/
Tells you how to do the conversion.
If you are looking to do the conversion yourself to save on labour then parts inc engine will be in the region of 6k depending on spec of the secondhand ls motor, to get someone else to do it for you then labour would be another 4-5K.
I would be looking to do it myself with help and if i get fair prices for my setup i have now and other parts in the garage i should have around 4k of that 6k And would plan to have it done in 6 months. weekends only. plus id be prepared to let someone finish off i have 2k reserve for that. Its a tough decision and not one to be taken lightly.
Its the electrical side i may struggle with. cheers for the link, i have read the granny speed tutorial guide in part, its early days yet
Here is a link of LS engine suppliers in the UK, these engines are Brand new, also supply the gearboxes and ECus as well
http://www.britishamericanengines.co.uk/ls_engines/default.asp
Having a look at those brand new prices, 350bhp ls engine + ancllilaries + ECU + Gearbox = £8000 plus VAT :2eek
I think Craig who does all the V8 conversions can get you good secondhand units for less
its engine plus tranny i need.I dont think just teh engine will do. I am wondering if its best to just get an old camaro imported from US. again lots to learn. I think 3500 quid on teh engine tranny will be the budget.
an old camaro??? the oldest camaro with an ls engine was produced from 1997, there is no way you will get one imported for £3500. You are better off contacting US junk yards who may be able to get the parts.
I would defo contact tinker-27 on this forum as he will have the contacts you need to get the bits
Im not going to lie i\'ve also looked into doing the whole LS swap but tbh i love the noise of the Rotary, one of the reasons i chose the 7 is because of the noise it gives off. I also looked into doing a JZ swap as again i love the sound when on full throttle. I\'ve come to the conclusion that i\'d just have to buy them all separately :rollin. If it\'s what YOU want to do then go for it you won\'t get any negatives from this call sign.
Why does everyone assume that rotary engines are less reliable than pistons "just because"?
Let\'s be honest here, (and i may be being simplistic here) but whats the main causes of rotaries lunching themselves....
1) Water seals = wrong coolant, no coolant, overheating
2) Apex seals = wrong oil, no oil, detonation
Now correct me if im wrong, but if you ran a piston engine with no coolant, oil, wrong type of either, persistant detonation or overheating...what exactly would happen again??? Bottom line: if you don\'t look after your car then it\'s no-ones fault but your own, and that goes for rotary or boinger.
I get that rotaries run hotter than pistons which can have a detrimental effect on materials, but do you not think Mazda would have chosen design temperatures / pressures accordingly. And also, the relative lack of moving parts mean that there is less wear?
Oh, and there is NO WAY that a big yank V8 is lighter than a rotary. I\'m sorry, but I refuse to believe that.
Quote from: trotter;665461Why does everyone assume that rotary engines are less reliable than pistons "just because"?
Let\'s be honest here, (and i may be being simplistic here) but whats the main causes of rotaries lunching themselves....
1) Water seals = wrong coolant, no coolant, overheating
2) Apex seals = wrong oil, no oil, detonation
Now correct me if im wrong, but if you ran a piston engine with no coolant, oil, wrong type of either, persistant detonation or overheating...what exactly would happen again??? Bottom line: if you don\'t look after your car then it\'s no-ones fault but your own, and that goes for rotary or boinger.
I get that rotaries run hotter than pistons which can have a detrimental effect on materials, but do you not think Mazda would have chosen design temperatures / pressures accordingly. And also, the relative lack of moving parts mean that there is less wear?
Oh, and there is NO WAY that a big yank V8 is lighter than a rotary. I\'m sorry, but I refuse to believe that.
my main reasons for looking into this is.
1) Near stock normally aspirated reliability 400 hp hopefully. (No scope to turn the boost up a touch too much)
2) 10mpg more, im doing 70 miles a day easily
3) LPG 68p a litre as opposed to 1.10p ( i already have the LPG system)
Ill probably sacrifice extra weight for that.
Im not going into reliability. I have been unlucky while taking as many precautions as i could
Sorry LPG 58p per litre
It\'s misleading when they say they weigh the same because they remove the a/c and p/s and relocate the battery which keep the weight down and balance ok. The weight is still infront of the struts and higher up.
I have run LPG on two cars and in both instances not only was it a little more difficult to
find an insurer who would give cover but a certificate from an authorised installer was required.
The current going rate for an install is around £1700 +vat.
You say you have your own kit, I don\'t think it will be that easy to find a registered
installer who will fit your kit and give a certificate.
Just a couple of points you may not have considered.
John
Yeah LPG woudl have to be sorted out before id go for it. ill get on the blower and see what they say about using my old kit
It has always made me laugh that this is MazdaRotaryclub yet people are allowed to come on and talk about v8s and how much better they are than rotaries.
There is a dedicated site for v8 rx7s and it is not MEANT to be this club... although it doesn\'t seem like it.
Also the cost of a v8 conversion is a lot, it makes me laugh when people think it will be cheap because it is most definitely not. You could get 3 or more rebuilds for the price of getting the v8 right, even more if you do it yourself.
I was going to suggest you look at the British American Engine site but Blitzboy has already given you the details. This is where I will probably go for my engine when the days comes as I\'d go for an upgraded LS3 I might even opt for the carbon fibre propshaft to be flash. Hinsons and Granny\'s in the States do all the mounting brackets etc.
The reason I chose to buy an RX7 rather than a Honda NSX or Skyline 34 GTR was the \'seat of the pants and steering feedback\' the RX7 gave as an overall driving experience (probably something to do with the fact I have had a Lotus in one form or another since 1973) but the engine was only a part of that if anything having browsed this forum for sometime the engine was a concern/reservation. If I had known then what I know now I\'d have probably gone straight for the V8 when my rotary went bang but I got ReWorx to rebuild it and it runs as sweet as my Rolex and I love it, but if it goes pop again I will rip out my cars delicate rotary heart and transplant it with a Frankenstien V8. I\'ll enjoy the fact I can just start it up in my drive to enable me to get one of my other cars out and just turn it off, I don\'t really care too much about fuel but I\'m sure the V8 will be better and by the time I\'m bored with it the new Skyline GTR will be a reasonable secondhand price. All in all I\'d say cut your potential future losses and go for the V8 and I know many people run 480+ BHP rotary engines without any problems but if you have suffered engine blowing blues there is good proven alternative.
All in all I would say go buy a Corvette if you want a v8 and sell the rx7 :)
Quote from: Kash_;665480All in all I would say go buy a Corvette if you want a v8 and sell the rx7 :)
cheers for the advice
How about somebody drops a 13b in a \'73 Corvette Stingray just to see the reaction?! That I would enjoy seeing!
Personally I don\'t mind V8 RX-7\'s, but I don\'t believe that they\'re any quicker (read: as quick) thus I don\'t see the point. After all speed is everything.
buy a used pullout and save the money on buying new ,they are good even with 100000 miles + on them and a cam and valve springs will give plenty of power, just do plenty of reserch on what parts etc to use as they dont all work together , im not going to try to justify why to do it weve all been there many many times now with the same mis information, ps someone has put a rotary into a corvette !!
post 97 camaro ls1 with tranny and granny speed kit? 4k ish?? id want to hit 400 at the fly.
you really want a 2001 on motor if you can, and it will need a cam to get 400bhp,there is also about 20 dirrerent wiring types and 3 or 4 fd different types and different fuel systems etc so do your reserch !!
Can I ask the owners and would be owners of V8 engined RX-7’s to please post very carefully here on Mazdarotaryclub as it takes no working out that these posts are the equivalent to poking many of our members with a big pointy stick,
Picture this,
You walk into a pub that only sells and attracts Fosters lovers and you tell them all “Oi, you don’t want to drink that rubbush, you wanna drink Carling” then see if you can get out without a black eye, or worse.
When I was at Sevenstock last year there was a lone Gen 2 with the bonnet up and with a lump of American iron sitting in it with nobody paying it the slightest bit of attention !,
Later in the day I heard a debate taking place with 4 or 5 guys about the V8 "issue" and being the shy person I am butted in to ask "their" opinion and found that in the States this is an issue just as divided as over here!
It has become very apparent on both sides of the pond that if you put a V8 in something it was not designed for you must also realise that you will alienate yourself from manufacture specific car clubs with the main reason for this being that owners in many cases love the car they own and like it just the way it is without ripping its heart out !!.
Quote from: raceralexuk;665507How about somebody drops a 13b in a \'73 Corvette Stingray just to see the reaction?! That I would enjoy seeing!
Personally I don\'t mind V8 RX-7\'s, but I don\'t believe that they\'re any quicker (read: as quick) thus I don\'t see the point. After all speed is everything.
The Corvette that had the Rotary fitted (I\'m not sure but I think it was a factory job) was quite simply one of the most desirable cars I have ever seen pictures of it I think are at the Hayward Rotary opening if you can find that thread.
One of reasons I always point everyone I come across to this forum is because of the very helpful \'broad church\' of people and opinions that contribute to this forum, to me it would be a backward step to tell people to go elsewhere when they can get help from this forum, sure there is the V8 RX7 forum but most of us do start off RX7 ownership joining this forum.
I have conjured up this image from the Little Shop of Horrors film where the rotary owner is the Bill Murray character and the Tuners are the Dentist just give me the pain of a rebuild please and no Novacain.
Quote from: David Wiltshire;665535I have conjured up this image from the Little Shop of Horrors film where the rotary owner is the Bill Murray character and the Tuners are the Dentist just give me the pain of a rebuild please and no Novacain.
David please see my post above.
Good debate . I can see the owners point of view with his several blown engines in a short space of time but never believe V8 hype from Americans . There\'s no way an LS V8 is the same weight as a rotary install and there\'s no way an LS V8 is better on petrol either . :Nono!
Quote from: clive;665540David please see my post above.
Sorry I did start the reply before your post but got distracted then pressed submit reply.
I do not want to inflame the situation and as a guest member I fully appreciate the very open manner in which this forum is run, it is just unfortunate that on nearly every occasion it turns into nothing short of a playground spat. I was rather hoping people would actually see the funny side of my Little Shop of Horrors comparison it was not made with any intention of causing offence
Quote from: clive;665531You walk into a pub that only sells and attracts Fosters lovers and you tell them all “Oi, you don’t want to drink that rubbush, you wanna drink Carling” then see if you can get out without a black eye, or worse.
That, my friend, sounds like an awesome new sport. Maybe we can beat the Aussies at it :rollin
Quote from: David Wiltshire;665531The Corvette that had the Rotary fitted (I\'m not sure but I think it was a factory job) was quite simply one of the most desirable cars I have ever seen pictures of it I think are at the Hayward Rotary opening if you can find that thread.
I can imagine it would be quite cool, but it\'s soul would be rather altered. I was actually wondering what the American V8 lovers would think to it. They\'d probably regard it as sacrilege! That is however a whole different debate..
Excuse me if I\'m being ignorant, but why has the thread starter\'s train of thought been
"I\'m fed up of rotarys but love the car, so it\'s getting a V8"? Why not;
"I\'m fed up of rotarys but love the car, so it\'s getting a Cosworth YB Turbo"? or
"I\'m fed up of rotarys but love the car, so it\'s getting a Nissan SR20VET"? Surely it doesn\'t have to be simply 13b OR LS-XYZ. There are a huge number of engines which produce similar power, torque and fuel consumption values, why be so narrow as to just look at a V8?
Granted, there may not be the "kits" to drop in these engines, but if the V8 kits are £8k, you can sure thing get a Nissan SR20VET dropped in for that cash, with change!
To the OP if you really want to know the ins and outs of the conversion without poking anyone with a pointy stick I would recommend pm\'ing the guys on here who have done it. Simples:Thumbsup!. However, I do find it mildly amusing that it\'s been pointed out by some people on various occasions that this is a Mazda rotary club only, and yet there doesn’t seem to be the same sort of hostility on a thread about a rotary engine transplanted into say a 6R4 metro which if my memory serves me correctly wasn’t built by Mazda:Nono!
Yes there are other alternatives available in fact there is one still on Pistonheads with a Skyline engine producing enormous power and according to a number of people on the Hampshire Jap Car Club its the ultimate engine in one of the best looking cars produced now as far as I\'m concerned that particular car is a waste of money I wouldn\'t touch it but each to his own.
From my somewhat limited research the later LS series engine are light and can produce enormous power in a reliable package and you can buy the bits virtually off the shelf from the States so it makes this particular conversion obtainable and proven, guys like Tinker 27 although I\'ve never met him or spoken to him personally is quite obviously the man who knows all about this conversion.
Someone else on HJC is putting a twin turbo Toyota in an RX7 and again I\'ll be interested in the results of that when finished. I\'m still going to stick to the V8 because out of the box I can have a new engine and gearbox and in running it in can get to know how what differences in the driving characteristics are there (if any) before I make a pillock of myself and wrap it round the first tree.
The reason being weight and weight distribution for choice of engine.
A straight 6/8 is to long and would put the weight to far foward not to mention they\'re genraly cast iron blocks. Tho there has been some 1jz/2jz conversions done.
Boxxers probably won\'t fit width wise.
I think the sr20 has been done on a drift car can\'t see it being better than a 13b.
V8\'s kind of make sence but need to be ali to keep the weight down to aceptable this leaves you with an LS lump because of price and power.
Good point,
One thing thats been overlooked that compensates against the argument the other way around is that the thing that sets "us" apart is that our cars have no pistons and dispite the detractors on this thread, this is what makes our cars so so special,
This view is not insular either as I know this "Rotary" view is shared all around the world.
A while back a 4 Rotor BMW set very very quick strip times in Aus and it made news in the Rotary world all over the world, small Rotary Datsun\'s also always make big news if you get a real quick one out of Puerto Rico, Aus or NZ.
You may get real attention if you strip a V8 Trabant but had this been a Mazda with a V8 you wouldn\'t have got a mention further than your back yard:WaveBye
I have found that the bottom line is with Rotary enthusiasts that they love the Rotary and not having pistons.
I am certainly not anti V8 indeed people close to me know the sport thats my passion is NASCAR and you ain\'t going to see a Rotary there are you.
I understand there is a forum for Mazda\'s with V8\'s so can I flip this around now and ask how it would be greeted if people joined that forum and told them " you wanna get that crap V8 outta there and get yerself a Rotary under the hood"
Me thinks that would be just rude to go on a forum and tell its members their engines are rubbish and yet we are putting up with it,
We are indeed a broad church :Hammer.
On a different note that not many people would ever know is that Glenn and myself actualy formed Mazdarotaryclub because of the engine and not specificaly the car itself,
Why,
Because we both realised that a lot of people were scared stiff of owning our cars because of the Rotary engine and felt that by forming this club we could at least gain knowlage to assist owners and potential owners of these cars from all around the world,
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;665244Thing is guys im on the verge of jibbing my rotary and going with a V8. Spent too much, time and money, 4 engines blown, 3 years, 15mpg ave.
i must admit, this is a bit much and i\'d be considering other options if it come to this, but surely somethings wrong here 4 engines in 3 years!!!
were they fresh rebuilds by a approved engine builder??
my engine was rebuilt by wgt 5 years ago, its had 3 owners in that time 20k+ miles put on it and still going strong, ok, its time will come but i shows you\'ve just been incredibly unlucky or had some poo engines!
good luck with whatever you choose to do:Thumbs-up
Quote from: clive;665598I understand there is a forum for Mazda\'s with V8\'s so can I flip this around now and ask how it would be greeted if people joined that forum and told them " you wanna get that crap V8 outta there and get yerself a Rotary under the hood"
Me thinks that would be just rude to go on a forum and tell its members their engines are rubbish and yet we are putting up with it,
We are indeed a broad church :Hammer.
To be honest Clive I can\'t recall any V8 engined Mazda owner on this site who has said anything of the sort with regards to the rotary engine. From memory we have just tried to inform those who may be interested in the conversion from our own experiences of what they can expect, good and bad.
I think you have done a fine job of promoting vehicles equipped with a rotary engine but this club is built upon it\'s members who when I requested their opinions before I started my conversion build thread voted with a vast majority that they were indeed interested in seeing details of the conversion.
Personally I am interested in all things automotive and have read with interest threads on rotary rebuilds along with rotary conversions into other vehicles. I just can’t comprehend the attitude of some people who seem intent on baiting others for simply having a slightly different interest than themselves and attempting to prevent a congenial exchange of information to those who request it.
It’s not as if there are a great many 100% original unmodified examples around which I could then understand would be a shame to alter. But especially in the case of the FD it must be one of the most modified cars around, so it seems a little hypocritical to me at least to focus solely on the engine and not even the whole engine as it seems fine to modify that with single turbos, altered porting etc etc without upsetting the morals of some.
Maybe I should have kept my rotary engine for a little longer to fully understand the complex spell that it places on its owners:2Confused.
Quote from: David Wiltshire;665535I have conjured up this image from the Little Shop of Horrors film where the rotary owner is the Bill Murray character and the Tuners are the Dentist just give me the pain of a rebuild please and no Novacain.
Spartacus,
You only have to look on this page to see why I said this,
Sorry but to contradict but can you imagine the reverse of the above being said on an FD V8 forum :Hammer
Whe i bought my FD five years ago it was for the look and beauty of the car and not the engine. V8 or rotary, its the owners choice but when the bonnets down they all look the same, stunning.
Didn\'t anyone find my comparison funny? I must have a really weird sense of humour if not.
I consider my RX7 to be a pretty good looking example of the marque and as such have picked up the odd award/cup/piston? when I have shown it, it gets a lot of interest and I always point potential owners towards this forum and in the 100\'s of people who I have spoken to about the car or posted replies on forums not once have I ever called the engine rubbish nor do I think it is.
I am and remain a fan of the V8 alternative and really hope that an informative debate can be conducted each time this subject comes up to enable people to make their own informed opinion over the matter.
Quote from: davyv;665619Whe i bought my FD five years ago it was for the look and beauty of the car and not the engine. V8 or rotary, its the owners choice but when the bonnets down they all look the same, stunning.
Hi davyv
What you have described is exactly how ownership starts, Rotary interest tends to come later :Viking
I just want to make an informed choice and have had good input from this thread so far.
Both options have their own traits which i need to look into and understand more. If any V8 owners can pm me some more specific info on what they did and how they did it etc it would be a big help.
Quote from: clive;665616Spartacus,
You only have to look on this page to see why I said this,
Sorry but to contradict but can you imagine the reverse of the above being said on an FD V8 forum :Hammer
Sorry, I guess I would have had to see the film:confused:
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;665662I just want to make an informed choice and have had good input from this thread so far.
Both options have their own traits which i need to look into and understand more. If any V8 owners can pm me some more specific info on what they did and how they did it etc it would be a big help.
If you want to go DIY have a read of my thread here to give you a basic idea. http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37480&highlight=hinson
To be honest the wiring was the hardest aspect but since I completed mine there are various guides/write-ups you can follow.
If you want it done for you I would recomend spending some time talking to Tinker.
Clive, i find it a little wierd that after being a club member of this club for 2 years and owning 3 FDs and loving the rotary engine. I feel i am being alientated soley for considering the pros and cons of a V8 engine conversion. I can still love the rotary and own a V8 FD, this church isnt so accommodating if rotary owners have to tread on eggshells.
I could be wrong: but you should realise you are taking sunscription fees from V8 "mazda" owners too so surely they must be accommodated for?
I have an LPG system which will knock the price of fuel down so i can drive to work everyday. meaning there will be a big smile on my face every day. and there will be an rx7 on the road everyday.
Even with the most relible FD, i cant justify 25 quid a day fuel, 12.50 i can bear. surely you see my logic.
Both lumps have pros and cons,
Who has a V8? rx fd, please pm me.
Quote from: davyv;665619Whe i bought my FD five years ago it was for the look and beauty of the car and not the engine. V8 or rotary, its the owners choice but when the bonnets down they all look the same, stunning.
Yup, thats why i wont have a corvette LHD yuk
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;665702Clive, i find it a little wierd that after being a club member of this club for 2 years and owning 3 FDs and loving the rotary engine.
I feel i am being alientated soley for considering the pros and cons of a V8 engine conversion. I can still love the rotary and own a V8 FD, this church isnt so accommodating if rotary owners have to tread on eggshells.
I could be wrong: but you should realise you are taking sunscription fees from V8 "mazda" owners too so surely they must be accommodated for?
This is actually a good thread that you have raised in a few ways but you must realise that people will get protective about the powerplant under the bonnet especialy here on Mazdarotarycluband as I have tried to explain this is the same across the world not just here on MRC.
I have been around many different forms of Motor Racing and come across different scenes within the car world and know that these feelings transpose across the same way elsewhere ,
For instance in America put a Big Block Chevy into a Mustang and to many die hard enthusiasts you have just lit the blue touch paper and even worse in Australia I recon if you tore an engine out of a Ford Falcon and put it in a Holden Commodore they would run you with a lorry load of Fosters.
As for subscription, on setting the club up I knew some clubs would not let you be a member unless you owned the right car, FDUK would Vette you (sorry humor crept in) unless you owned an FD you could not get beyond the front door and whilst this was their right I swore MRC would welcome anyone with an interest, indeed one of our first members only owned a Mitsubishi.
I will ask one question that seems to stay in the shadows concerning V8’s into FD\'s is how much does it really cost, honestly .
One of my customers was Craig Winstanly and if my memory serves me right he said that his V8 conversion had cost him 17 and a half thousand pounds and I know from the other parts he brought that this was not the price of the car , just the conversion! .
If so that’s well beyond the realms of what most of our members could afford and a lot of Rotary rebuilds and fuel for 17.5K
One of my customers was Craig Winstanly and if my memory serves me right he said that his V8 conversion had cost him 17 and a half thousand pounds and I know from the other parts he brought that this was not the price of the car , just the conversion! .
If so that’s well beyond the realms of what most of our members could afford and a lot of Rotary rebuilds and fuel for 17.5K
Thats the kind of thing i NEED to know. Surely thats a worst case scenario, but i am a memeber of the v8 club now looking at some builds threads, im more interested in the cost/viability at the mo. If its a huge outlay i will not be doing it and will stick to the rotors. Inded tinker told me 10k all in if he did all labour etc and i think that was inc. vat.
It is all about pounds per smile after all.
Rotors and V8s sound good, what if i put a v8 in the back and a 20b in the front driving all 4 wheels that sounds more like 20k
Dr S, you might find it hard to fit LPG to a LS engined FD as from what I\'ve seen on LPG equipped Monaro\'s the injectors sit a fair bit higher than the inlet manifold, which in an FD is very close to the underside of the bonnet already.
Just a thought but I would say if you are intent on a LPG V8 FD that would be the first thing to check out.
Never said I was a stranger to putting "other" engines into cars,
I have carried out engine conversions for myself and also helped a mate with a V8 into a cortina however one little difference is I wouldn\'t have then expected a red carpet form a vehicle specific owners club :Giggle,
Here we go here\'s a couple of observations,
Unfortunately many here would need to pay a company to carry out this conversion as you will need considerable equipment plus fabrication skills etc, etc.
Two of the problems with a transplant into an FD I can see is, one you need to fit a different diff assembly and need to fabricate a cradle to house the new diff, yes you could fit a 9" axle but a solid axle is not going give suspension anywhere near as good as an IRS.
Also because you also lose the powerplant frame you need to support the back of the gearbox on a car not designed to support weight in the center of the car, easy if you start braceing off a full roll cage but not if you want a stock interior.
I know 20 years ago people were fitting Big Blocks into FC RX-7 in the US which is a much easier way of fitting a V8 due to the size and shape of the engine bay, plus its easy to mount the gear box as the FC has conventional mounts
Quote from: clive;665742Here we go here\'s a couple of observations,
Unfortunately many here would need to pay a company to carry out this conversion as you will need considerable equipment plus fabrication skills etc, etc.
Not true, I did it with basic tools apart from a very small amount of seam welding I had done via a chap who came to my house, 15 mins max.
Two of the problems with a transplant into an FD I can see is, one you need to fit a different diff assembly and need to fabricate a cradle to house the new diff, yes you could fit a 9" axle but a solid axle is not going give suspension anywhere near as good as an IRS.
Also not true, the FD diff has proved it\'s self quite strong enough once it is located to prevent excessive movement. You can of course upgrade the internals and drive shafts like you would for any very high power FD should you need to. The diff mounts are now readily available in the US for easy bolt on fitment.
Also because you also lose the powerplant frame you need to support the back of the gearbox on a car not designed to support weight in the center of the car, easy if you start braceing off a full roll cage but not if you want a stock interior. There are also easy fix\'s for this which have been extensively tried and tested off the shelf leaving the interior as Mazda intended.
I know 20 years ago people were fitting Big Blocks into FC RX-7 in the US which is a much easier way of fitting a V8 due to the size and shape of the engine bay, plus its easy to mount the gear box as the FC has conventional mounts
Hope this answers some of your observations, happy to go into more details as and when you start your conversion Clive
hi all craigs car was about 17grand but that was for a full built 6.8l stroker motor,race clutch etc,and lots of other work to convert it to a time attack car so not a normal conversion, this subject has been done over and over and i thought we all co-habit on here now ? most if not all "us v8" owners DONT diss the rotary but we get lots of abuse which is fine as its nothing we havent heard before.
Quote from: tinker-27;665763hi all craigs car was about 17grand but that was for a full built 6.8l stroker motor,race clutch etc,and lots of other work to convert it to a time attack car so not a normal conversion, this subject has been done over and over and i thought we all co-habit on here now ? most if not all "us v8" owners DONT diss the rotary but we get lots of abuse which is fine as its nothing we havent heard before.
Craig, you have never been any kind of problem on this forum indeed as you know I had no problem with people seeing what you had under your bonnet at Rotorstock ,
I think I even said to you "pop the bonnet"
When you say not true, sorry you have made this sound like 15 mins of welding and away you go;),
What about the fabrication work to make this possible like engine mounts exhaust let alone wiring etc etc,
Good on ya that you have the skills to do this but as I say, many here even considering this will need to pay people just to disassemble let also fit something that shouldn\'t be fitted in as standard,
As for the Diff and gearbox, if you get serious with a V8 the torque is going to rip these things apart, blimey a good Rotary will break a diff with no where near the torque of a V8
I thought the whole idea was to produce something quicker than a Rotary, sorry if its putting up with this it can\'t be being driven very hard either that or its a very soft V8 as you would know just because its a V8 it doesn\'t mean its got power in this emission strangling world,
If its all being done for economy and it\'s never going to be driven or launched hard then maybe a 4 pot twin cam ford is the way to go, not meant to be offesive, just puzzled because "if" I did this I would want it to rip the tarmac up just like other stuff I\'ve owned.
I spent a year wining with a Mustang that we had trouble keeping the axle fixed in the car, this is why me no understand that you have no real diff
the std diff is plenty good enough really, you can brfeak them normally due to axle tramp, mostly while drag racing, craig (winstantly) has ran a std diff in his car for 3 years doing over 50 track days and a time attack series, it did break finally when he ran 315 slicks but 335 888s were ok, most people change them for gearing not strength,
Thanks Craig, I was going on the fact that the Rotary kills diffs and not just due to axle tramp, or more presise diff tramp in the case of the FD.
Us Rotary owners are obviously too aggressive when pulling away, either that or we find more traction :D
I have broke a FD into every component. which i found quite easy. apart from some subframe bolts were a "little" tight. Ive removed and fitted about 3/4 fd engines and done a single tub conversion all by myself so i should have the ability with plenty of reading.
The blowtorch helped with that. I think if i got the granny speed kit id hope. it would match up without problem to the chassis. then the v8/tranny would drop in ok bolt it up.
There are off the shelf solutions for the diff/propshaft, bracings, and exhausts, which should be fairly straightforward to fit. As im writing this im thinking for the costs involved it might be viable to get another rolling chassis and make a nuts stripped road legal / track car.
What are other popular v8 conversions with lots of off the shelf parts/ info.
Great advice guys cheers
I have got round my RX7\'s fuel consumption by buying a Mark 1 1.6L MX5 :) does 500 miles to a tank, so nearly 50mpg :) so I can still have my RX7 doing 8mpg round town as well :)
It might actually be cheaper for you to keep your FD as is and get a 2nd car - maybe with a V8 in if you are wanting one, it might work out cheaper in the long run? Just an idea :)
Quote from: m1tch;665910I have got round my RX7\'s fuel consumption by buying a Mark 1 1.6L MX5 :) does 500 miles to a tank, so nearly 50mpg :) so I can still have my RX7 doing 8mpg round town as well :)
It might actually be cheaper for you to keep your FD as is and get a 2nd car - maybe with a V8 in if you are wanting one, it might work out cheaper in the long run? Just an idea :)
I have a 1.8 16v lpg ford focus. :Viking but its boring
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;665923I have a 1.8 16v lpg ford focus. :Viking but its boring
Exactly get a MX5 :D the mark 1 has popups :D
Quote from: clive;665767When you say not true, sorry you have made this sound like 15 mins of welding and away you go;), Sorry, what I meant by the 15 mins of welding was that this is the small part which I considered to be specialist, the rest of the work involved was nuts and bolts.
What about the fabrication work to make this possible like engine mounts exhaust let alone wiring etc etc, Engine mounts and a stainless exhaust are available off the shelf but I personally wouldn\'t recommend the purchase of the full exhaust system available, just the manifolds and Y pipe. As I\'ve said before, the hard part is the wiring but I did it without all the walkthroughs that there are around now. If you can use a multimeter and are not colour blind It\'s just 1 wire at a time. Also, us V8 conversion guys are a pretty friendly bunch and are always happy to help those who may get stuck. At the moment I am helping others in the UK, US, Canada and a couple more in Australia.
Good on ya that you have the skills to do this but as I say, many here even considering this will need to pay people just to disassemble let also fit something that shouldn\'t be fitted in as standard, Thanks for the compliment Clive, but I would say that this conversion isn\'t for anyone with absolutely no mechanical skills what so ever, but if you ever built an airfix kit, it isn\'t far off. Besides how do all these Rotary guys manage to mod their cars to the degree that they do without a clue what their doing? Also, Should they not have the confidence or the time I would recommend Craig (Tinker) who has converted more than his fair share.
As for the Diff and gearbox, if you get serious with a V8 the torque is going to rip these things apart, blimey a good Rotary will break a diff with no where near the torque of a V8 As Craig has mentioned, the standard diff copes really well even with the sort of torque the V8 can provide. I’m not sure if it\'s the better mounting of the nose of the diff that the conversion provides or it’s something to do with the greater linearity of power delivery or even something to do with not having a ppf and giving the diff greater independence from the gearbox. Either way, from what I have seen the standard diff copes better that you would expect even when as the US guys would put it "you beat on it"
I thought the whole idea was to produce something quicker than a Rotary, sorry if its putting up with this it can\'t be being driven very hard either that or its a very soft V8 as you would know just because its a V8 it doesn\'t mean its got power in this emission strangling world, Clive as I\'m sure you are aware the "soft" LS1 V8 is still 350bhp with a similar amount of torque and that is with the full US emissions equipment which incidentally you can ditch (depending on year of FD it\'s transplanted to). So I think that would just about make it quicker than a standard rotary? If you want more power there are many other options available just as there are in the rotary world.
If its all being done for economy and it\'s never going to be driven or launched hard then maybe a 4 pot twin cam ford is the way to go, not meant to be offesive, just puzzled because "if" I did this I would want it to rip the tarmac up just like other stuff I\'ve owned. Everyone who does this conversion does it to suit their own requirements. For some, greater fuel economy is required, for others it would be to rip tarmac up, as luck would have it, you can have both! I did it as I wanted a cross between 2 of my previous cars, an original Lotus Elan and a Jensen Interceptor.
I spent a year wining with a Mustang that we had trouble keeping the axle fixed in the car, this is why me no understand that you have no real diff
I doubt the Mustang had the same rear suspension and diff design as the FD does. Maybe all Mazda needed to do was loose the PPF and better mount the diff that it already had? As for the Mustang, sorry I cant comment on that but after you’ve seen what actually works with the conversion you could possibly go back and try again with the Mustang?;)
Anything else you or anyone else would like to know I\'ll do my best to help.
Quote from: Spartacus;665946I doubt the Mustang had the same rear suspension and diff design as the FD does. Maybe all Mazda needed to do was loose the PPF and better mount the diff that it already had? As for the Mustang, sorry I cant comment on that but after you’ve seen what actually works with the conversion you could possibly go back and try again with the Mustang?;)
Anything else you or anyone else would like to know I\'ll do my best to help.
Ahh but the Mustang was a 10second car so it had just a little bit of power n torque, tied the axle into the cage, that cured it :D
Quote from: clive;665961Ahh but the Mustang was a 10second car so it had just a little bit of power n torque, tied the axle into the cage, that cured it :D
Good on you:Thumbs-up, see much can be achieved with a well located axle. Apparently the factory diff can withstand 60\' times of mid 1.3s for those that know about these things.............is that good then?
With that in mind and for those that are into racing in straight lines, one of the US conversion suppliers is now doing a live axle conversion for the FD to those who want to race with over 600 ft/lbs of torque.