Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => 3rd generation RX-7's => Topic started by: Jono FD3 on December 29, 2009, 06:10:48 PM

Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: Jono FD3 on December 29, 2009, 06:10:48 PM
Guys, has anyone done, or know anyone who has done a custom tubular intake manifold?? I\'m talking a full on UIM & LIM in stainless :mmmm
No heatsoak problems to worry about as stainless doesn\'t absorb the heat like alloy, and because it is made out of tube & not cast, you won\'t get any air trapped under the UIM, as a result allowing the heat to escape between the tubes redusing the time hot air is presant!

I know I\'ll have to get some injector carryers machined up in stainless, but this is good, as I would be able to put bigger injectors in to cope with my other little idea :evillaugh

Jono
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: m1tch on December 29, 2009, 06:49:38 PM
JM Garage has made a custom intake manifold for his 20B FD :)
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: Jono FD3 on December 29, 2009, 06:59:53 PM
oooo any pics floating about?
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: davyv on December 29, 2009, 07:30:33 PM
Jono count me in if you making some.
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: karl_tate on December 29, 2009, 07:33:10 PM
sound good jono, what kind of TB are you thinking of using??
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: Jono FD3 on December 29, 2009, 07:42:15 PM
going to be utalising the std FD throttle body, just going to flow it a little so it suits the high flow inlet manifold ;)
but the only thing is it wont be usable with the stock twins (or stock twins positioning anyway!!) so that is going to be the second part of the project!! LOL
would have thought I could pick up a fair few ponies & tourqes at the end of it :)

Jono
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: davyv on December 29, 2009, 07:56:03 PM
I\'m single sutup, Is this somthing you will make for others or just for youself.
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: m1tch on December 29, 2009, 07:56:16 PM
Quote from: Jono FD3;662041oooo any pics floating about?

The project is kinda under wraps regarding some of the parts, but its a 20B with a GT45, so it does kinda need BIG air flow lol
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: L18M on December 29, 2009, 08:23:17 PM
this might give you some ideas. jm garage
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13423&page=3
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: BlitzBoy on December 29, 2009, 11:08:36 PM
Make sure you flow test the new LIM\\UIM versus the old one, you dont want to end up with a poorer flowing setup with pumping losses. Mazda designed the FD LIM\\UIM with a dynamic pressure methodology behind it to limit pumping losses.
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: Jono FD3 on December 29, 2009, 11:43:05 PM
yea, I\'ll try to find somwhere that can flow test it for me, the joy of it is I will have a spair engine & manifolds to work on so my car isn\'t going to be off the road for 8 months or how ever long it takes me to get the set up sorted.... but the theory is the tubes will be equal size on all 4 like the cosmo RE manifold but in stainless ;)
What\'s this Dynamic Pressure Methodology & pumping loss you speak of blitzy?? any links or theroy gumff I can take a look at to see what mysteriouse magic I have to work around??

As for the production...... at the moment it will be a single unit for mine, but I shall see how difficult it is to produce, then take it from there!
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: RobMatthews on December 30, 2009, 08:59:38 AM
Good luck with this :-)

but are you not just trying to reinvent the wheel a bit?will look rather sexy though if you pull it off:Thumbs-up
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: shaunwil on December 30, 2009, 10:56:38 AM
I\'d keep an eye on weight too. Although you can go much smaller wall thickness to get the weight down to match the original.

Another plus would be would will be able to get them ceramic coated to protect from heat even further. There is a basic ceramic coating but it can\'t be baked on the same as what they use on stainless.

Shaun
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: jackaleks on December 30, 2009, 11:49:10 AM
Quote from: Jono FD3;662054going to be utalising the std FD throttle body,

are you going to be doing a seperate tube for each port? you know it makes sense to go individual throttles + stacks and a collector :D
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: leeroy_25 on January 01, 2010, 06:28:10 PM
I was thinking of this when I did my single conversion.. If you do it would be good to see some pics of the fabrication.
Is there no reason why standard cars never have stainless inlets? Always plastic or ally? sure cost would be a factor but on high performance cars that is kind of irrelevant??

Just a thought?!
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: Timmy on January 01, 2010, 08:35:16 PM
Cost is probably a major factor is mazda choosing cast ali. It maybe a sports car but it\'s no ferrari you could quickly double the manufacturing cost with small changes like that.
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: shaunwil on January 01, 2010, 08:57:03 PM
Cost is a huge factor. A cast part with some machining is still expensive but nothing like fabricated stuff. If you take the Rx8 intake system it probably costs mazda less than £10 to produce in plastic if you don\'t take the tooling costs into account (depends on complexity but I bet there isn\'t much change from £200k)

I think one of the big factors in the FD would be between steel and alloy because they would both be sandcast would be overall weight. They where trying in some places to make the engine as light as possible. Plus alloy is much quicker to machine than steel but more expensive metal to purchase !

Shaun
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: snatchman on January 02, 2010, 12:53:32 AM
Theres a picture of manifolds on FDUK
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: leeroy_25 on January 02, 2010, 04:44:28 PM
When I mentioned High performance cars I meant a ferrari of porsche.. etc.. I am sure these also use ally intake manifolds?
Title: Jono has another idea brewing!!
Post by: shaunwil on January 02, 2010, 05:54:37 PM
Interesting read :

http://www.zcorp.com/en/Solutions/Castings--Patterns--Molds/spage.aspx

There are a couple of companies in the UK that can print moulds direct from 3D models in to aluminium. So any manifold could just be cast in alloy and finish machined !

Can\'t remember the names of the companies that offer the service. Looked into it when I was investigating a rapid prototype machine for work. The machine we own would make patterns for sand casting but would be expensive, about 30p per cm^3 but you can hollow shell patterns for reduced material required. Time is what makes these machines expensive because companies charge by the hour !

Shaun