Well.. It had to be done.. We last left off with the car looking like this:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Stage1%20Finished/101_1068.jpg)
It was then suggested I needed more power to go with the looks!
Thank you to whoever that was.. It was always in the pipeline I would do a single turbo conversion but I ended up having to do it sooner than I thought due to my stock twins packing up. This thread will focus on the conversion. As with the rest of the project this was to be done on a budget but with the aim of good results!
First decision needed to make was what turbo to run.
I spent a lot of time researching turbo\'s on various forums and after much deliberating I decided to go fairly way off the beaten track and try a Holset unit!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/HolsetH1Eb.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/HolsetH1E.jpg)
This has been done in the states plenty but not so much here that I could find.. Most people haven\'t even heard of Holset turbo\'s.
For those of you not in the know these turbos are fitted to large Diesel lorries, Buses agricultrural machinery.. That sort of thing! By all accounts though they could spool as quick if not quicker than an equivalent Garret unit and run 30psi boost all day long so barely breaking a sweat at my measley 15psi aim! Only down side I could see would be size as they are a bit bigger than and equivalent Garret and therefore a bit harder to package. More about that later.
Quite a lot to get through so I\'ll try and do a bit each day and there will be plenty of pics!
Hope you all like it.
Lee
Very nice! So which Holset turbo is that one then (since I work for Cummins the parent company).
Blimey! How hard have I tried to get info from Holset and you have been sat here all this time! It\'s a H1E. Got a newer HX40 too but that\'s for another build!
I had a guy I mangaed to contact in tech but he said that it was very frowned upon them giving any info out to Non-Diesel applications? Personnally I think they are missing a trick and a potentially good market but hey! It allows me to be different!!
Seeing as you have said hello. Are you able to find out what size all restrictor I should run? I have gone by threads on the US forums and got a 1.5mm one in now as the 2mm one I tried before seems to be too large and the turbo smoked a bit.. Just want to check what I have is okay now or whether I can go smaller?
What do you actually do at Holset?
Hope you like the thread.
I work for the high horsepower engine division of Cummins as a structural analyst. Unfortunately the issue you are having with getting info out of Holset is something even we experience, it\'s like getting blood out of a stone half the time! I do know a couple of people so if you PM me the details of what you\'re asking, I will forward it on to them and see what comes of that.
I\'d wondered about using one of our turbos before, but the only ones we have are mahoosive! :rolleyes:
Thanks for the offer.. Can you give me your e-mail address as I don\'t have pm?
Follow the thread and you can see how it all goes together and performs.. Like I mentioned above I also have a nice new HX40 for another project I am doing so we will see how that works too.
No time to do any proper posting today.. Will try to do some in my lunch break tomorrow instead!
Cheers
Lee
I live in huddersfield where holsets is, or a part of it. I tried to get a list of turbos to compare to turbos used on rex\'s but they were as helpful as a winnit!!
A lad i know works down there and is hoping to get into the R&D development. If you need any other information just ask through your thread and i will ask him and report back promtly.
What is the the turbo you have got equivallent to by garrett?
Hi there Bob,
That\'s handy as well! Typically when you are desperate for the info it\'s impossible to find someone to help! Still always handy to know..The only thing I need to know at the mo is the recommended oil restrictor size and also where to get a metal gasket and Part number for the exhaust flange/wastegate cover that bolts on. (internal type gate).
More pics and news later.. Promise! work is manic today hnce just stopped for a quick bite to eat!
I can get metal gasket material if you are interested. Its about £15 a sheet and is a metal/composite sandwich. You can cut your own with a decent pair of shears and its a lot cheaper than standard gaskets. Our Grant(thread above is from he) has some on his turbos and they have been there over a year now.
SCM turbos next door to Holsets(now called Cummins Turbo Technologies) deal with them( Holsets) but you need part numbers I\'m afraid as they only deal like for like.
The lad we know is trying to sort something out for Grant(the ....er had better come up with something as I\'ve recently spent two days porting a head for him for free). We shall see but Holsets aren\'t interested in after market tuning stuff as they make lots of money making turbos for Cummins so anyone dealing with them should be aware that its not a good idea to hold your breath!!! Bob.
OOps, forgot to say that Holset do not make ball bearing turbos(so I am told). Also, just to .... everybody off, they buy a lot of turbos in from China. These turbos cost around $60(thats for one mind)!!!
Interesting stuff there Bob I was aware that the Holsets I am using are journal bearing.. Didn\'t know they only made journal bearing ones though.. Is that an issue? They seem to work and last weell enough. Plus a rebuild kit is about £60 and can be DIY with a bit of careful attention!
I know you can get Holset copies from China dirt cheap. I wouldn\'t be too surprised if most of a genuine one was made in China either! That\'s just the way this country is going.. We have shot ourselves in the foot with all the taxes and crap we get ripped off so it\'s cheaper to get it made elsewhere. That and the cheaper shop rates they have abroad too.. I still cannot believe I can get a new Hoslet cheaper in the US than I can here! Ridiculous!
By the way the gasket I was on about is just a plain thin aluminium gasket.. Not a sandwich type.. I have already got some sandwich material but some sections are very thin and I don\'t think it would hold up on them. Although I gues I could leave a bit of extra thickness to the gasket to hold it? Also that stuff is a cow to cut! I ended up using a small burr on a dremel!
So true what you were saying about part numbers.. Every person I have dealt with or tried to deal wth on the Holset front only can talk part numbers.. Other than that they are stuck! I gather there are a fair few varients on most of the parts though so I guess its understandible to a degree.
Will hopefully post up some pics after dinner!
Cheers
Lee
Okay.. Down to business then..
As it stood the car wasn\'t going anywhere so whilst trying to source all the bits I thought I might as well start stripping it all down and getting it ready to go back together.
Well I didn\'t realise how much crap was under that bonnet that I could throw out!
First out was all the induction kit. None of which would go back in after the conversion!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal3-1.jpg)
This reveals some of the turbo and pipe work below:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal1-1.jpg)
Removing the Y-pipe is easy enough. The aluminium elbow on the rear turbo however proved to be quite a trick to get out and requires the heatshields removed first ideally. It just won\'t quite squeeze past! I think I might of ended up using brute force and rocking the engine on it\'s mounts to squeeze the pipe out.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal5-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal6-1.jpg)
Now the fun really starts. getting all the heatshields off around the turbo so you can access all the bolts. Most of them are rusted solid.. So a good dose of WD40 all over it and leave it a day before you start isn\'t a bad idea!
Sadly no pics of this as I ran out of battery. However once you get the heatshields off first job is to remove the downpipe which again there is not much room to do. (remember to unplug the O2 sensor and keep it safe!)Thankfully once you get this off you start getting a bit more space to work.
Once the downpipe is off then it\'s time to remove all the pipework and plumbing attached to the turbo. Beware of the actuators and the pipes connected to them on the underneath! I unbolted all these and removed them first to make sure nothing could hook up.
Once they are off it\'s nice and easy to unbolt and lift off the twin turbo pack!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal7-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal8-1.jpg)
Voila.. Some space in the engine bay! All that crap that just came off can be junked too! Except maybe the O2 sensor.
There is only one part of the stock turbo setup left to remove now and that\'s the manifold. Some of the bolts are hidden by heatshielding again which was a cow to get off due to siezed bolts in silly places! but once it\'s away another easy job. so you are left with this
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal9-1.jpg)
At this point I stuffed the ports with a plastic bag and some old socks to make sure no moisture could get in and called it a day!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal10-1.jpg)
Next we will be starting on the inlet side!
It is a fun job stripping out the twins ;) the bonus for you is they don\'t have to go back :) that\'s a real fun job!! Good luck with the conversion matey.
J
Removing the inlet side is generally not as bad as the turbo pack but there are a lot of vac pipes and connections to get off which is a bit of a pain.. I just took my time and made sure to take photo\'s of mark things up if I wasn\'t sure whether or not they would be going back on the car again.
First off is the plastic elbow front the intercooler.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal11-1.jpg)
At this point you can also remove the stock intercooler and any remaining associated pipework. I left the AST connected and hanging in the engine bay.
After this the next bit of fun is the Upper Inlet manifold.
Firstly disconnect the throttle cable and unbolt the bracket from the UIM or unbolt the cable from the bracket if you prefer.
Next you need to unplug 2 plugs from the back of the manifold, 1 plug Underneath it towards the back and two water pipes connected to the throttle body! Also there are vac pipes connected to the front and breather pipes and a pipe for the brake servo on the exhasut side. Disconnect these from which ever end moves first! Inccidentally I took off the throttle body off seperately so I could actually see what I was doing better But I think it can come off as one no problem.
There are a couple of wires connected to the back off the UIM by one of the lifting eye bolts. If you take out the bolt these can be left hanging.
There is also a bolt in the middle at the front which keeps the manifold fixed to a support. You need to just slack this off a couple of turns.
Think that covers it.. So now you can unbolt the 5 main fixings and the manifold should lift off.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal12-1.jpg)
Take a note of the gasket and see if it needs replacing for when it goes back together. More than likely when you take LIM off like me you will find you have a crusty broken up old gasket that has been leaking nicely for a while and needs replacing anyway so get a pair on order!
To get the LIM off is fairly simple.. Worse bit will be getting the fuel pipe off of the regulator as I found the pipe was pretty firm on there. Give it a twist until you here it crack loose form the metal stub and then you should be able to prise it off with not too much trouble. First I slowly unbolted the other end of the fuel rail which connects the primary and secondary rail together. Put some rag around it incase there is residual fuel pressure in the pipe. You don\'t want a face full!
Then you can unplug all the bits connected to it including some vac lines going to the Rats nest.
Should come away nicely.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal13-1.jpg)
You can just about see some of the remnants of the paper gasket in this pic
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal14-1.jpg)
Now you can set about removing the beloved Rats Nest!
There are 365 plugs and vac pipes on here. One for each day of the year. Okay so I exaggerate! but there are a lot! Also unplug the primary injectors to free the harness up so you can move it out of the way. You will need to take off the solenoids first which in turn means you need to take the oil filler neck off as well! Again remember which plugs go where on the solenoid. Mainly the plug leads as I think everything else is colour coded.
Once all said and done you should be left looking something like this...
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal15-1.jpg)
...and wondering where the hell your engine has gone!
Looks so small when you get the junk off it!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Removal16-1.jpg)
There will have been some black vacuum chambers that have been removed along the way.. which can all go in the bin. At this point there is one more to remove and its right under the alternator! You need to take the alternator off to get this out which isn\'t that bad a job with nothing else in the engine bay!
No pics of that sorry!
Cover over the oil filler with something to stop any unwanted objects going in! Then you are free to marvel at all the gubbins that came off.
There are only a couple more things you might want to do at this stage before leaving the car to go and sort out all the bits you need to modify and buy! If you are planning on running 850cc primaries either take the rail out and cover over the injector holes. Also be carefull not to loose the plastic spacer under this if there is one. and remember that it needs to go back in after!
You will also want to take off the oil injector lines that are brittle old plastic..
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/OilInjection.jpg)
..so you can get some new ones made using the existing ends like this:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/OilInjectionhoses.jpg)
If you want to be flash you can always get stainless braided lines! But being that I am on a budget and you can\'t see them when it\'s all built back up I didn\'t bother!
Next installment will start looking at the first few bits of modifications! Should start getting some nicer pics and a bit more interesting read now!
So What can we remove and simplify during the single turbo conversion. Well it seems quite a bit! Plenty of conversion threads to pick info from.
I thought I would start with the easier bits to get my self into it!
Blanking plates: (Also in this shot is the modified stock fuel dampner and regulator.)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Blankingplatesandfuelrailends.jpg)
The Air pump is going so firstly you will need blanking plates for where the air pipe comes off the back of the LIM to this. I also planned to remove the ACV unit off the LIM so that requires a blanking plate.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/UIMoff-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/LIMandACV.jpg)
There is also a redundant oil return at the rear of the block that can be blanked off. These plate are a fairly easy DIY job from so 1/4" ally plate. You can use the pipe stubs and ACV uit as templates to get the shape and hole positions.
After a test fit I sent the LIM off for a good old clean up and then set about blanking any air stubs that would no longer be required and fitting the blanking plates with a small amount of RTV sealer.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/BlankedLIM1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/BlankedLIM2.jpg)
Job done!
Next part on from this would be the UIM.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/UIMvacunit-2.jpg)
You can remove the secondary throttles from this. If I understand correctly they basically prevent you from revving the nuts off the car when it\'s cold which everyone knows is a bad idea! So without them you will need to have a bit of self control!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Doublethrottleremoved.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/DoubleThrottleBlank2.jpg)
When you have removed the butterfly assembly you will need to blank the hole the rod has left to keep the UIM air tight. I used an M10 bolt and tapped a thread into the UIM and plugged it with some sealer.
Befroe we start getting ready to put some bits back on there were a couple of other bits to do.
Machine the primary fuel rail to accept some 850cc injectors. Did this myself but unless you can use a mill get someone else to do it for you or a reputable tunner can supply you with one.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Injectormachined.jpg)
I also modified the fuel dampner elbow to remove the dampner and leave a plain pipe stub running in to the rail.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/PrimaryInjector850cc-1.jpg)
Lastly I wanted to reuse as much of the stock pipework as I could. Just as much as for ease as well as keeping costs down. So I removed all the ratnests pipes from the fuel pipe assembly and bolted the simplified assembly back up ready to fit to the block.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Ratsnestoff-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Ratsnestseperated.jpg)
The advantage of this is you can also keep the part of framework from the ratsnest that you need to fix the coil packs to!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/SolenoidRail1-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/SolenoidRail2-1.jpg)
So we are about ready to bolt a few bits back on now!
Blimey. This sounds so easy now!
So now we have the LIM Blanked up, injectors sorted and the recycled parts from the ratnests to go back on, so easy enough to bolt that all back up and clear some workshop space. Remember to put your nice metal gasket in the LIM! Be sure both the block and LIM are clean and degreased.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/LIMFitted.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/RailandCoilsfitted-1.jpg)
At This point I also when and got some new fuel hose and some silicone hose and checked out what I need to connect up vaccum line wise refering to the single turbo conversion diagram below. I did not want to have to get under the UIM after it was all bolted back up to fit a hose somewhere I had missed!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/SingleVacuumdiagram.jpg).
Final bit for today is bolting back up the UIM with the throttle body
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/UIMfitted1-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/UIMFitted2-1.jpg)
You will note the long lengths of silicone vacuum line I trailed out to be sure I had enough to connect up the Oil squirters and FPR and fuel injector atomiser.
awesome write-up :)
i\'ve been fantasizing about eventually going with an HX30/35 so it\'ll be cool to see how you get on with this.
Hey Buddy, An HX30/35 on a rotary will be too small! It would spool up like no bodies business but I think it would run out of steam too quick. Lots of posts on the subject if you google it or search RX7club! You will be surprised how big a turbo the rotary can handle! and stil have god response. Anyway we will see!
Alright mate, sorry for the delay, if you email me at:
stephen dot garrett at gmail dot com I will pass your questions and info to the applications group at CTT (Holset).
Just as a little aside.
My veilside rims were starting to get a bit fousty and nasty between the spokes where some of the chrome plating was lifting so I thought it was time to give them a spurce up!
Annoyingly I didn\'t take a picture before I started but trust they were not pretty!
Basically I had to carefully sand down the flaking chrome and oxidizaion between each spoke by hand! Then mask the face of each spoke and the rim and spray between the spokes with a bright silver and lacquered over the top. I was going to use chrome effect paint but as they are rough cast between the spokes and not shiny normally the plain silver works fine! It took 2 days and some very sore fingers!
Here we go:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/Refurb1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/Refurb2.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/Refurb3.jpg)
Shiny and new!! Now I can\'t use the car until the weather picks up and they stop salting the roads!
This is a pretty cool thread :) I have heard of Holset turbos, they are usually bolted to large drag engines as they are ment for trucks lol
Quick question on the turbo - was the turbo from a diesel engine or a petrol engine? I only ask as a diesel turbo can\'t take the heat from a petrol engine, especially a rotary!
I will look forward to when you bolt the turbo on! looks awesome :) im guessing you are going to repaint it?
Just a quick reply for you mitch.. Holset only make turbos for diesel application as far as I am aware and this unit came of some thing like a 7 litre dodge truck!
heat was something that crossed my mind and got mentioned a few times in my early research but seems these units can handle it okay? Guess we will see in due course!
Quote from: leeroy_25;664579Just a quick reply for you mitch.. Holset only make turbos for diesel application as far as I am aware and this unit came of some thing like a 7 litre dodge truck!
heat was something that crossed my mind and got mentioned a few times in my early research but seems these units can handle it okay? Guess we will see in due course!
Yeah, just be careful as when I was looking round for larger turbos I was told that if I bought a diesel turbo I would need to get the rear wheel replaced with something that could cope with the heat.
Does the turbo need a rebuild at all?
Just pulled this off an australian 4WD turbo diesel forum:
EGT at idle should be approximately 150c
EGT at cruising between 315c and 365c Normal running between 260 to 482c. Max EGT\'s 600c Above 370c the engine gets wasteful with the fuel, due to load demands. Below 315c and you lose efficiency (Power and Torque)
The rotary kicks out an EGT of about 1000C on full chat, which is why I am running journal bearing in my turbo as ball bearings can\'t cope for long at high heat, so it looks like the maximum EGT of these diesels will be about 60% of a rotary on full chat, so diesel turbos don\'t need to have materials that can cope with the higher temps - not good for you!
wow, nice work!
Where did you get those omp lines made up? They look swish!
Thanks
Jon
Quote from: JBerg;664586wow, nice work!
Where did you get those omp lines made up? They look swish!
Thanks
Jon
I know JM garage are working on some braided OMP lines at the moment, but I would rather that they are clear so that you can check the oil flow!
Hi JBerg, As with most things I made them myself! I went to my local hydraulic supplier and got some lengths of hose and connections!
Mitch I can see your fear with exhaust gas temp. All I can see is it seems to be a fairly well tried and tested conversion in the US! and some of these guy\'s are running some serious boost and power. Worsest case the turbine blade melts and I get a new one! That ends not going back around the engine! The Holsets run Journal bearing by the way.
Okay, lets get on track!
Most of the inlet side done.. What next? I thought it would be a good plan to finish connecting up all the fuel lines and get the inlet elbow back on to prevent any water getting in that end of the motor..
I found a nice spot to mount my FPR... I chose one of the bolts that holds the ABS system on saving adding any further holes or brackets to the bulkhead.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FPRFitted2.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FPRfitted1.jpg)
Now it was time to start getting stuck into the nitty gritty.. Fitting the turbo. but first it needed a clean up and also the wastegate disabled.
I dismantled the compressor end and sent it off for acid dipping..
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/HolsetH1Ed.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/HolsetH1Ee.jpg)
Just like new!
I made an intial attempt to disable the wastegate:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/H1Ewastegate1.jpg)
.. But I quickly realised after abit more research this was going to take up too much room in the engine bay and cause fitting problems.
I also found that I was almost impossile to get a spec for the V-band used on the downpipe fitting of the Holset. It turned out it was a holset specific size and gettting hold of parts without part numbers as I already new was difficult not to mention I could not find a weld on flange to use with my downpipe.
There was only one answer. Draw up my own rear plate and get it machined. I could then incorporate a wastegate plug of sorts in it and had free choice of how to connect the downpipe. So that\'s what I did!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/H1EWastegate2.jpg)
I also made up an oil restrictor for the turbo at this point using a rivnut and an M4 Screw. Initially I made a 2.0mm restrictor as a safe size.. I later had to change this down to 1.5mm after reasercing some more info.. Although I am still trying to find out if I can go smaller.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Restrictor1-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Restrictor2-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Restrictor3-1.jpg)
Next time we will look at test fitting up the turbo!
Is that a FSE boost valve with a rising rate of 1.7:1? I thought it was best to get a 1:1 rising rate, which is why I am saving up for a fuel lab or aeromotive one lol
Im glad that the turbo will be ok :) im sure it will be fine, I was just warned about it when I was looking, hopefully your fueling will mean that the EGTs won\'t get that high anyhow!
Hey there mitch
I am not sure what the spec on that FPR is to be honest.. it is an FSE one and I got it off this forum.. but it appears it\'s dudd as I wasn\'t holding pressure. I have changed it for another FSE one which I got of a different forum member.. that is 1:1 rising rate as far as I am aware and works fine.
In preperation for my single turbo conversion I had managed to get my hands on a nice Trust stainless manifold:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/TrustManifold-1.jpg)
So very excited it was now time to give it a bolt up and see how the turbo fitted!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/TrustFitted-1.jpg)
So manifold on was a good start!
But trust this progress did not continue long! As I dropped the turbo in the engine bay with the compressor housing off to give me a bit more room and to see what was going on.. I just managed to hook it on the top two bolts of the manifold flange only to find before it sat down on the other two it hit something solid! It was very close two the chassis rail.. But that was not it.(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Fitproblem1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FitProblem2.jpg)
Oh so that would be the steering Column then!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FitProblem3.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Fitproblem4.jpg)
With the compressor hosuing on this fouled the water pipe that feeds the heater system and also the chassis rail.
Bugger!! This was not in my plan!
After much deliberation an frustration.. I decided I would get another manifold with a different setup to see if that worked! Shame as I like the low fitting the Trust has.
So I managed to get a fleebay one to try which has a further forward and higher mount position. I bolted all this up and still no go with the turbo! With this unit the large compressor fouled the LIM! and had no scope to move it further out.
So with some head scratching and serious reluctance I decided there was only one thing for it.. cut up at least one of the manifolds and fabricate something that fitted! It was clear there was not a lot of room to play with due to the size of the turbo so I would also have to tickle some of the lumps off the exhasut housing where the internal gate was to slim things down a bit. A non gated housing would have helped hugely here but hey.. we had what we had!
Lastly I would need to cut and re-route the water pipe feeding the heater.
Until next time!
Im getting a custom manifold made up due to the size of the T88, it will have longer primaries to help spooling as well, before you cut up perfectly sellable manifolds that will work for others, try and get some costs on a custom manifold as it might work out better as you can sell on the other manifold :)
Don\'t worry Mitch.. I picked up the mainfold dirt cheap and have my own TIG welder to do the fabrication myself. It was by far the cheapest and most sensible option to go.. It would cost a few quid just to get the flanges machined not to mention getting mandrel bent pipes.. I know this as I aslo made my own down pipe which I\'ll do a post on later.
I considered doing the job lot but cost didn\'t work vs modifying what I had and jigging it when I was working with a very small amount of room to play with would have been next to impossible!
Would be interested to hear what your manifold costs none the less.
I\'ll post some pictures later!
Lee
Quote from: leeroy_25;664764With the compressor hosuing on this fouled the water pipe that feeds the heater system and also the chassis rail.
!
yip this is a common problem, we rerouted my water pipe and replaced the metal water pipe with flexiable hosing. A lot of single turbo conversions done have had to reroute the water pipe.
Right.. So big decision made I had to be very sure before I put a saw close to my trusty Trust that I was ging to be able to jig it correctly for welding back up. Ideally I would have cut the manifold and somehow jigged it in siture but clearly that posed many practical problems like to room to do anything around the turbo once it was in position.. My only option was to take a damn good guess at where the manifold and turbo needed to be. So I got my better half to take a pic of me holding the unit where I thought it was going to fit.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FitProblem6.jpg)
So looking at the picture I decided I need to get the manifold to sweep around about 35-40mm and move out about 10mm!
I tried to mock this up with spacers but could not get enough sweep on the manifold in this way.. But at least it gave me an idea.
In the end there was nothing for it but to go for for it!
So I got my saw out and about and hour later and a seriously aching arm the manifold was almost in two parts!
At this point I decided I would leave the flange just attached and bend it around at the angle I wanted to sweep the flange to and try the spacer method again.
Unfortnuately this was a busy day so no pics.. but Once I had test fitted with various spacers I had a sweep angle and found I needed about 20mm of packing to get the turbo on.
Next I had to sort a Jig to hold it all before I cut it completely and lost my positioning.
So I found a good hardwood base and some gash bits of steel and voila!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold2.jpg)
Jig sorted! Note the spacers under the main flange..
Now with all positions held I was safe to cut the flange completely away!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold3.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold4.jpg)
Now take the spacers out and bolt the flange direct to the base board.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold5.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold6.jpg)
So now I could see the gap that need filling!
I had already measured up the OD and ID of the pipe and accertained that firstly it was not round! And secondly it was not close to a stock tube size. So again I would have to make the joining section up from a cut and shut piece of oversize tube! I was going to be using a thinner wall section so I made sure to keep the Internal shape and diameter matched up nicely to avoid any flow disruptions for the exiting exhaust gases.
After some light tickling I had formed my tube sections and tacked these into place for the initial fit.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold7.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold9.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold10.jpg)
After a quick fit up on the engine I found that although very close the compressor housing was just clashing with the LIM so I would need to space it out a bit more! There was not exatly acres of room on the chassis side either! Back to the drawing board! I cut another section about 8mm long of straight tubing removed the flange and tacked this in place.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold12.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold13.jpg)
Aftera test fit on this it looked very promising! Compressor cleared and so did the turbo on the chassis side!
So time to weld it up properly.. Please bare in mind am only just starting out with the TIG welding!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold14.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold15.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold16.jpg)
Now bearig in mind the original tubing was at least 2mm thick and I was on 1.6mm thick I thought it would be wise to reinforce the new section with a little gusset. So I added this in too:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold17.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold18.jpg)
Now I just need to get inside the tubes and grind off any nasty bits on the inside to keep it nice and smooth..
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold19.jpg)
Now time to test fit again!..
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/ManifoldFit1.jpg)
The bloody thing had moved! Well when I say moved I guess that welding the gusset in had pulled the tubes around slightly. Just enough to have the compressor touching the LIM by a fag paper! It had fitted perfect before I put the gussets in. Very annoying!
So I decided I would scollop a small area out of the LIM to overcome this and also mean I would not have to move the turbo any closer to the chassis rail. I litterally only had to hand file about 2mm in depth and it was clear. As a additional bit of spacing I decided to run two gaskets when final fitting the manifold. Sorted!
Next mod for the manifold was the wastegate fitting. I had a 45mm gate to run and it wouldn\'t fit in the current position as it was to close to the engine mounting. I would leave completion of tis until the downpipe was in place to make sure I had no further fitting restraints.
Lastly while the welder was barked up I made a drain/return pipe for the turbo and for the fitting at te front of the block.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/TurboDrain1-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/TurboDrain2-1.jpg)
This is why I want to learn how to weld lol :D
nice work. im so glad you only live round the corner. brain picking time
Oi! Gander about time you bought a"real" car :rollin
Quote from: gander;665085nice work. im so glad you only live round the corner. brain picking time
Quote from: Laurenzo;665105Oi! Gander about time you bought a"real" car :rollin
i haven\'t bought a shoe box just doing a rotary conversion in my new crazy build :chat
lee what wastegate you going to be using?
Hey there Gander! Nice of you to join us! You definately need to get researching! We will have a chat soon..
Mate the RX7 is one of the nicest looking cars ever! But then it\'s always nice to be different too.. So convert away!
Keep reading the thread and you will see what goes on shortly!
Right so been a few days since my last post as I have been a bit busy.. And I managed to blow the alternator on the Rx7 which is another story!
To finish off the manifold I had to finally modify the external wastegate section to fit my wastegate.. So I did a bit of measuring up and pieced it together bit by bit spotting it on and test fitting as I went!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold22.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold23.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Manifold25.jpg)
Then it was time to bolt the manifold on to the engine properly!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/ManifoldFit2.jpg)
And bolt the turbo on so I could start measuring up for the downpipe!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/TurboFit1-1.jpg)
Right lets make a downpipe!
Again this was a bit by bit job tacking parts in as I went. So a lot of on and off of the turbo and crawling under the car welding in very akward positions. Unfortunately for me I was stuck doing this on a driveway with the car on a jack and a couple of blocks! Great fun!!
First of all was weld the initial bend to the flange on the turbo:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe1.jpg)
Next I tacked in a reducer and a straight section going down towards the floor:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe2.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe3.jpg)
After that I lined up the mid pipe section and the bend to run under the car and tacked this in also:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe4.jpg)
From here I had to bolt the flange onto the midpipe and then cut a piece of straight pipe to fill the gap and tacked this to the flange and the main downpipe section to give this:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe8.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe6.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe7.jpg)
Now I could carefuly start welding it up properly taking care not to distort anything!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe9.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe10.jpg)
So I just slowly worked my way along the joints welding opposite side 1" at a time to avoid getting too much heat into one area and having the pipework ll around.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe11.jpg)
Lastly I drilled out a position for the exhaust gas sensor and welded that in.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe13.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Downpipe12.jpg)
So While I was waiting for that to cool down. I needed to make a small mod to the midpipe to put the Exhaust temp sensor in. I wasn\'t sure if I needed to have it but thought I may as well while I was under the car so I made up a little flange and tube section for it and drilled a small hole in the mid pipe and welded it al up!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Decat2.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Decat1.jpg)
Oh and I made a little screamer pipe for my Wastegate!!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Screamer1-1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Screamer2-1.jpg)
Finally I test fitted the final assembly!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/TurboFit4-1.jpg)
I bolted up the wastegate to check all was okay as well:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Wastegatefit1-1.jpg)
All looked pretty good.. The only thing I would say is I think the downpipe sits a little low and will scrape bumps to easy so in due coarse I may mod this.
Final thing to do to the manifold was give it a bit of heat wrap.. As much as anything as to protect cables and gaiters nearby in the engine bay.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/DownpipeWrap.jpg)
Jobs a gooden! ready to be fitted!
daaamn ! nice work !
done a great job on that bud :yes
what is left to do??
This thread is being done restrospectively.. I finished just before Christmas..Car is running! and this thread is getting close to you all seeing the \'finished\' product! Are these sorts of projects/cars ever finished?!
Keep coming back!
i love i can do all the work too...so cool bud...very great job A+
doing an amazing job! wish i had access to some of the equipment you do!
one thing i thought i would say, your exhaust gas temp probe should be up on the mani... really in the collector just before the turbo... otherwise there will be a pretty huge heat difference to where you need the readings from to where you have it mate... at the least it should be right after the turbo on the elbow/downpipe... thats where you need to read from so you can see when the engine is running to hot and warning for det etc...
so cool to see someone doing all their own fab\' work. wish i had those skills!
Thanks guy\'s,
MaLicE - That position I put in is for the stock probe that used to fit in the CAT?? So it\'s in the same place it used to be roughly.. Maybe I didn\'t need to put it back in at all without the CAT there? I am not too sure of it\'s exact roll when the CAT is in??
Certainly appreciate some more feedback/info on that..
To be honest I don\'t have that much equipment.. I have just invested wisely on specific stuff to get the job done and have some good contacts for stuff I cannot do myself like any machine work. That being said I machined the fuel rail myself! Which I am lucky to have use of a manual mill and lathe at work.
Cheers for the positive words.
Lee
oh i thought you had an aftermarket exhaust gas temp gauge...
as far as i know that stock probe is just to warn you if the cat gets too hot... as you dont have a cat i wouldnt of bothered lol!
Hey.. I thought it was some kind of temp wanring sensor for the CAT but I wasn\'t sure which way it worked!! Anyway.. It\'s in there now!
Will try and post some more stuff soon.. Got a busy weekend away!
Okay.. Time for a little more write-up.. Last couple of weeks and been hectic!
There were only a few more bits to make for the car before I could get is all back together.
I needed to hook up the new fuel pump..
I removed the stock pump assemly and offered up the new pump to it.. figured I could do a bit of cut and shut on the pipe work and use some jubilee clips to hold it all in place.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FuelPump1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FuelPump2.jpg)
Initially I set the new pump up with a modified stock filter sock..
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FuelPump6.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FuelPump5.jpg)
Later I found this would fold over in the bottom of the tank and restrict flow so I got a walbro one and modified that to fit instead:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FuelPumpWalbro.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/FuelPumpWalbro2.jpg)
With that done it was all fitted back up.
I then made a little pipe and flange for mounting my dump valve onto my tust pipework:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Dumppipe1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/Dumppipe2.jpg)
I sent this off for welding up as I can\'t yet weld ally!
That was it.. Ready for final fit up! This went pretty straight forward at this point.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/AllFitted1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/AllFitted3.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/AllFitted4.jpg)
Ready to roll!
Okay Guys I am going to wrap this thread up for now..
What are you all waiting to see is how she performed on the dyno!
Well here are a few pics and vids for you.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/DynoDay1.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/DynoDay2.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/DynoDay3.jpg)
The sound quality on the vids does not do it justice the turbo has a crazy whistle and when the wastegate lets rip.. Holy crap! I nearly shat myself first time it got opened up on the rollers!
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/th_DynoVid1.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/?action=view¤t=DynoVid1.flv)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/th_DynoVid2.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/?action=view¤t=DynoVid2.flv)
Well as you can see it made 304rwhp.
I expect you are all thinking that\'s disappointing!? Well I was a little but the reason is that was only running at 0.8bar wastegate pressure and we could not go any higher as the ignition was starting to break up at the top end! So it was a bit of a shame but it has a lot more grunt that when it was stock so I plan to drive it like that for a while and in the meantime keep my eye out for an ignition pack.
Geff said it pulled well and the turbo preformed very well.. His guess was it should comfortably make 360rwhp which was my initial aim. Hey no one told me I needed an ignition booster! All good though.
Turbo wise it is very driveable.. On stock ports I was expecting it to be too laggy for my liking but it start spooling up around 2000rpm and hits full boost before 3500rpm. So I wouldn\'t say that was too shabby..
Well hope you guys have liked the thread.
Until next time!
great project car looks awesome i love those wheels :)
Wow thats amazing! It really is very good work there :D yeah you do need an ignition upgrade lol im getting a custom one made, perhaps you could relocate the battery into the boot and then put an MSD where the battery was?
That turbo does sound rather good at spooling at lower RPM, what boost controller is that?
Just noticed on the IC to TB run, the clips holding the silicone connector are rather close to the alternator pulley!
But seriously, well done, it looks and sounds awesome :)
What boost are you going to run it to? Well more to the point, what can the injectors manage? lol Im going to be running my T88 on 1.2 bar or so but only briefly :)
Thanks guy\'s the wheels I think would be classed as Marmite wheels! I love them on this particular car but hated them when I first saw them on something else! LOL!
Mitch.. Don\'t worry about the pipe clips.. They look closer than they are! Loads of room.
I am running off wastegate spring pressure at the mo but have got an early HKS EVC boost controller.. EVC IV I think. On the 850 injectors Geff reckons it will stuggle much past 1.0bar but that is the most I want to run anyway.. There is no point in adding extra strain to the engine as it will only break!
I had looked into MSD units and HKS Twin power but as you point out they seem to take up a lot of room so without moving the battery where the hell do you fit one?! I would be interested to know about your custom one as it would be in keeping with the rest of my project! I like to find alternative/cheaper ways to do things instead of going and paying top dollar for a name. I have looked at some generic amplifiers but I have to say electronics is my weak point so I am not certain what I need or how to wire it up. I was wondering if you could run an amp off another car that has a better stock one? And use that cars coils if required? Please tell me more!
Quote from: leeroy_25;670685Thanks guy\'s the wheels I think would be classed as Marmite wheels! I love them on this particular car but hated them when I first saw them on something else! LOL!
Mitch.. Don\'t worry about the pipe clips.. They look closer than they are! Loads of room.
I am running off wastegate spring pressure at the mo but have got an early HKS EVC boost controller.. EVC IV I think. On the 850 injectors Geff reckons it will stuggle much past 1.0bar but that is the most I want to run anyway.. There is no point in adding extra strain to the engine as it will only break!
I had looked into MSD units and HKS Twin power but as you point out they seem to take up a lot of room so without moving the battery where the hell do you fit one?! I would be interested to know about your custom one as it would be in keeping with the rest of my project! I like to find alternative/cheaper ways to do things instead of going and paying top dollar for a name. I have looked at some generic amplifiers but I have to say electronics is my weak point so I am not certain what I need or how to wire it up. I was wondering if you could run an amp off another car that has a better stock one? And use that cars coils if required? Please tell me more!
There is a link to that drag racing FD, it has 2 huge MSD amplifers mounted in the passenger footwell lol
The FC coils are awesome, unfortunatly they are connected to 80\'s technology, so I am getting a custom setup that uses the OEM coils, just with better electronics :)
hey mitch, when you sort out which ones you need could you let me know, im gonna need some beefy igntion system for mine and i have a feeling that the twinpower might not keep up for what i want.
I like the look of the MSD stuff as ive seen them on a few big power ones in USA but i dont know what i would need to order
Mitch keep me posted with you ignition set-up. I have some spare coils which I think might be FC ones in the shed! Is there an benefit just putting FC coils with an FD ignition module? Would it get me any more power for the time being?
I seem to remember that the FC coils were beefier, at the moment I am running stock coils but uprated HT leads, are you running upgraded leads on yours?
this would have been ideal with fd coils, sold now and very hard to get hold of but you\'d want something similar
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61373
That does look interesting .. Expensive by comparisoin to an HKS unit though?
I think my leads are uprated.. I am not 100% sure though. They are red and a lot thicker than the ones on my spare motor which definately look stock!
Cheers
Lee
buy cheap, buy twice :yes
Quote from: leeroy_25;671932That does look interesting .. Expensive by comparisoin to an HKS unit though?
I think my leads are uprated.. I am not 100% sure though. They are red and a lot thicker than the ones on my spare motor which definately look stock!
Cheers
Lee
dude, that shiz, if you could find it, retails for well over £1200 new
HKS Cheap!?
Not that I normally buy somehting because the make but I have never thought of HKS as cheap!
How much!!!
the twinpower imho is a very bottom end ign system in regards to mdi, crane etc etc
Good effort on the conversion on a budget Leeroy, impressed with the effort.
You will probably benefit from getting some brand new stock coils or decnt aftermarket stuff, as a lot of the original FD ignition stuff is starting to break up due to age and heat cycles. You probably gain like 60hp when sorted.
But 370 fly is still nothing to be sniffed at 115bhp up on stock, well done on the build.
RIP
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62784
The news we all dread!
We are all back and run in!
Dyno\'d on Saturday and comfortably made 306bhp at the hubs at 0.8.bar.. No ignition breakup at all. Tried to add a bit of boost but the controller is unstable for some reason so we had to give up on that until I can figure out what is wrong with it or get another.. Once I can get that sorted I should hopefully get up to 320whp. The I expect I will be lacking in ignition to go any further. We will see!
Lee
If you are intersted I am just starting a website at //www.rspowerprojects.co.uk
As yet I don\'t have signature permission to add it too!
Just a quick thanks for a good read.
Shame I cant weld for the life of me :(
Hi- I did look for info in your thread quickly, but couldnt see much. Have you thought about doing your own v-mount with the std rad!?
I did, probably cost me about £250, inc second hand intercooler, pipes etc.
Much better intake temperatures, and water is the same.
Not that hard to do, and surely a must on a single turbo set-up!?
Thank you DS North. Glad you enjoyed the read.
Charlie I haven\'t thought too much about a v-mount. It crossed my mind that I could probably fabricate something but I don\'t appear to have any issues with intake temp or the car getting even remotely hot.. I guess the bonnet helps quite a bit?
Maybe i\'ll look into that for the future. thaks for the heads-up.
Lee
Okay guy\'s I think this will be the final update to this project. I have been wanting to put a little more bost into the old girl since the rebuild to get up to about 1 bar and see if I could top 400bhp (flywheel). I had problems with my electronic boost controller so decided to make my own mechanical one based on a dawes device but using a little bit more finesse than the ones you can get off ebay that don\'t seal properly and most people complain boost spike. So I set the unit up last night and fitted it to my car for tuning with Geff today. After putting a new pair of Leading plugs in (Done a set in 1000miles!) due to ingnition breaking up I must say the results were very pleasing. I think the graphs say it all.
Wheel power and Boost
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/10Bar-boost-rwhp.jpg)
Boost and AFR
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/10BarBoost-AFR.jpg)
Estimated Flywheel power and Torque
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/Leeroy_25/RX7%20Turbo%20Conversion/10BarTorque-Flyhp.jpg)
I must say I was stoked with the results.. My aim was to top 400bhp on a budget so over 420bhp is very pleasing indeed. The hard graph paid off!
As you can see the boost curve is very nice and smooth. I have not road tested the device much being that it was only fitted last night so I will see if the performance lasts and may offer the for sale in the near future.
I would be interested to get some feedback on the AFR graph as I have some rich running problem down low and Geff tried to iron these out but it appears a small group of cells on the datalogit are causing no effect on the output for the ECU. If you try and turn the fuel down nothing happens until you litterally switch the injectors right off? Maybe this is a problem I have to live with for running 850cc injectors all around although Geff does not recall having such an issue before. Anyway thoughts Please or any additional info would be appreciated.
Visit www.rspowerprojects.co.uk (http://www.rspowerprojects.co.uk)for more of my projects and info.
where on the map do you have this issue, if its within the first 5x5 then i have that issue, only thing that got those areas lean was inj lag, but if im just touching the throttle under 2krpm(ie deep into vac) it goes super rich(11s) and no amount of tuning helps with that.
Do you have a wideband?
Hi There,From memory is was about 5 rows down and the last 4 of the 5 cells in I think, if that makes sense? I am not really too familiar with the tunning side of it to be honest.
Are you running 850\'s all around too? I do get exaclty as you say.. Cruising at 2k or less it runs rough and you can here it is rich as sin! I will ask Geff if he did anything with injector lag.
I presume the AFR of say 11 is 11 air to 1 fuel? so the lower the number the richer it is? Looking at my graph below I have got around 11 for most of the map above 4500rpm? And below that way higher which makes me think AFR is not measured how I have assumed above?!
If you are saying that 11 is rich then I guess I have too much fuel all together? Can someone clarify what a good AFR is? I was led to believe around 11 was okay?
Cheers
Lee
No on the wideband by the way!
yes im running 850cc all around aswell, the issue we both speak of is that the pfc cant drop any injector below a certain millisecond of time between opening and closing, and because of that the injector cant be turned down enough at that low rpm to get decent afrs.
Because i have a wideband something ive tested is cruise at 2krpm in 4 or 5th...ie so its super rich and look at your inj duty on your pfc, then press the accelerator, only a bit, so you go from say 18in of vac to 13inch of vac and you will notice the inj duty will hardly move....but because the engine is now sucking in more air but not fuel the afrs go back to where they should be (14s-15s)
Yes the lower the number, the richer it is, you have it spot on.
Your afrs on your graph are spot on, thats how i would want my map, generally the more boost you run the richer the fueling, notice how the afr follows the boost, thats perfect.
you pretty much want these sort of figures.
full boost 11afr
building boost high 12s to low 12s
idle 14....very hard to get with 850s, im at 13.5 at the moment.
cruise at low rpm 14s
cruise at motorway speed 15-16
any more questions im happy to help :)
Hi There, I didn\'t get a notification for some reason so only just saw this! Thanks for the info. Glad to know it\'s a general 850cc setup problem! Geff was wondering if I had a dudd ECU!
When you say you altered the Injector lag times. Are you able to do that in an rpm range and not just globally? I gather altering lag excessively has the effect of reducing the injector flow? So if it can be done in a problematic area of the map I can see how that could work.. Not sure though why it is not possible to get the running right on cruise at 2000rpm? That is probably the most annoying thing! I tend to drop a gear so I can sit with the rpm higher to try and get around that.
I see what you mean about the AFR following the boost.. It\'s like a mirror image. Just not so smooth! Also interesting that AFR\'s should be different at different loads etc.. Although when I think about it I guess it\'s logical. Saftey margin at high load/rpm and economy and emissions at the other end.
Thank you
Lee
No you cant change the lag times for parts of the rev range, it effects everything.
But its the only way your gonna get a decent idle to be honest, well without going for a full bridgeport that can suck that much air in on tickover you can run proper idle afrs lol
The biggest issue ive come across with injector lag is low rpm throttle response.....because you are infact delaying the time for your injector to open when you press the throttle for that split second the injectors havent reacted to your change in throttle position and it stumbles......ive tried many ways to get around this but if your running alot of lag like i am theres only so much you can do.
You cant really get around that low rpm richness im afraid, its just the limitations of the ecu, keep it in the low gear and press the accelarator a tiny bit more, you will be surprised that it doesnt mean your car suddenly shoots forward but it leans the afrs out and makes it better.
well the afrs are very hard to get perfectly smooth, but thats a very good afr map, ive seen alot worse that tuners pass off as ok.
One thing i wouldnt advise now is to not mess with the lag without a wideband because it will effect the whole map and make it leaner everywhere, geoff knows what hes doing so ill bet its got a bit of lag already in it to stop it running pig rich on idle, give him a ring and ask him about it and see what has been done.
what rpm on the power fc does it say the car idles at and what inj duty does it say at that rpm?
Hi There,
Thanks for the info again. I am slowly picking up bits on the ECU progamming! Would love to know a lot more than I do!
Okay so bridgeport it is! I was actually thinking peripheral port!
I spoke to Geff and I don\'t think he has put lag in as he didn\'t want to effect the rest of the map. How much that would effect me top end I am not sure??
I have to say Geff has been great and I am more than pleased with the results. Just Geff got a bit stuck on the AFR problem and was looking for other feedback in case it was a dodgy ECU or something more sinister. Also as I said I don\'t really know what a good map looks like other than a nice smooth torque and power curve! So just trying to learn a bit more for myself!
Thanks again.
Lee
its harder to get decent idle with a stock port aswell as it physically sucks less air into the engine when idling so that will be the reason he is struggling alot to get a decent afr at idle.
i did some tests on a stock port of a friends to see the difference, at the same rpm(idle) to maintain the same afr i had to run 30% more fuel in mine, so you can imagine its easier.
afr is the most important thing when looking at a good map, after that its the timin thats been applied to the engine, unfortunately its not something you can see from a dyno graph.
Lag wont affect you top end, with lag you will still be able to get the same sort of power, you just have to map around it.
let me know what rpm your car idles at and what your inj duty says and i can roughly calculate what your afr is at idle
Hi There, I meant to say last post I don\'t have a hand controller at present so short of going to Geff and borrowing one I cannot tell you what my inj duty is or idle I am afraid!
Thanks for the offer though.
Next MOT will be interesting! I need a compressed air bottle to plumb into the intake piping or exhaust I think!
I wanted to port the engine when it was rebuilt but funds and time did not permit sadly!
Lee
get your hands in your pockets and get one, i cant specify how good there are to have.
you can monitor nearly everything on the engine, things like knock, air temp, inj duty, water temp, its such a good thing to have, they are about £200 new or cheaper if you can get one second hand.
who built the engine for you, porting only costs around 200-300 more.
on the MOT front you have 2 choices, take it to a \'mate\' or a rotary tuner to push it threw an MOT with bad emmisions or stick the 550cc back in for the MOT and turn the fueling down at idle(you will need commander for that)
my MOT next year im gonna try massive injector lag and a cat to get it through then turn the fueling back to where it was and put the exhaust back on
I have been keeping my eyes half out for a second hand commander. I had one on my old car and due to my lack of ECU related knowledge I didn\'t really use it other than to monitor knock. I wasn\'t too fussed getting this ECU without one.. But being that I am trying to learn a bit more on the ECU setup front it would be worthwhile if one comes up cheap. To be honet the car will be up for sale in the not too distant future to make way for my next project! I just want to get on and enjoy it for a while!
Geff built my engine.. I was on a tight budget and Geff had very little space or time to do it and could not really do the porting as well.
I had a spare engine I had been planning to port and rebuild myself but it went pop rather unexpectidly so I did not have that luxury.
MOT wise I will sort it one way or another. I still have the CAT I can put back on!
what Holset turbo is this one?
Hi There,
turbo is an H1E.. well WH1E to be more specific which I removed the internal wastegate from.
Lee
oh right, do you know what that is like in the scale of the hx30/35/40 etc
Yep!
It\'s basically an older HX40.. HX40 is a refined design with better blade technology and a few more otpions. HX40 is hard to get hold of though being relatively new unless you have no quarms spending out for a new one.
Lee