I\'m having some serious issues with my FD, for a start it\'s ported with Garrett T78 turbo, fueling mods etc etc & Power FC.
The story with it is as follows: I have the car a week, I bought it with a freshly rebuilt engine (275 miles on it since rebuild to be exact) & it had been sitting up for nearly a year. I was informed not to drive it over 2,500 rpm untill it was run in (1000 miles) which is fine. I did a good 100 mile spin on Friday & it didn\'t miss a beat, ran perfectly. Then on Saturday I took a trip up to a retail park near me & had to go over a load of visious (sp) cobble stones which shook the crap out of the car & shortly after it started hesitating badly & back firing, then it would clear out & be ok. Then on Sunday I did the same 100 mile spin but this time when I slowed down for the toll bridge half way up the motorway it had no power & was jumping & banging when pulling away & again cleared itself out. When I got off the motorway & came to first lights it happened again but worse this time & couldn\'t get it to clear out by the time I got home (about 2-3 minutes). I had a very quick look & leads were still on the spark plugs etc. Can\'t figure out whats wrong & I\'m afraid to drive it now :reallymad
Any ideas???
I had thought maybe coolant temp sensor but it\'s reading perfectly on the hand commander :3Confused
Please someone help me :o :(
Hose dropped of the map sensor.
Quote from: neil_jdmr;646088Hose dropped of the map sensor.
I take it the Power FC uses the original MAP sensor, if so I checked it & the hose seams fine & block connector is on etc. Hand Commander is reading vacuum etc
Had thought possible coolant temp sensor but same again, it\'s reading fine on the hand commander :(
Think I\'m a bit tired & repeating myself there lol
Possibl loose ground? check the one that connects to the side of the block where the air con bracket is.
rgds
Brian
Quote from: bnaellis;646099Possibl loose ground? check the one that connects to the side of the block where the air con bracket is.
rgds
Brian
Checked that mate, seems to be tights where it mounts to the engine block anyway. Luckily the air cons removed so wasn\'t hard to see lol. Thanks for the suggestion :)
Possibly a spark plug issue as they can get a bit clogged after a rebuild.
Its not just bad fuel is it. Think fuel is pretty much useles ifits been standing for any lenth of time, try a good service, fresh plugs/oil/filter/fuel filter etc
i had almost exact same problem with mine, and after changing fuel pump & fuel filter it seems my coil pack was split and shorting out, may be worth checking that
Quote from: neil_jdmr;646158Its not just bad fuel is it. Think fuel is pretty much useles ifits been standing for any lenth of time, try a good service, fresh plugs/oil/filter/fuel filter etc
Don\'t think its fuel because the problem started with the same fuel in it that had been in it for the first 100 mile trip I did & it didn\'t miss a beat for that. I may check the spark plugs though :)
Quote from: Jovic82;646170i had almost exact same problem with mine, and after changing fuel pump & fuel filter it seems my coil pack was split and shorting out, may be worth checking that
Could you see it split or do you mean split internally? Is the coil pack underneath the manifold/throttle body ye?
Coil packers are under the Plenum/Intake bolted to the block :Thumbs-up
Quote from: AndyGen3;646272Coil packers are under the Plenum/Intake bolted to the block :Thumbs-up
Thanks boss, any luck with the pulley? :D
Do you have an impact gun ? Only way its coming off. . And its ok to use to as it was still connected and in use until i started to break the car. . ;)
did you find the problem mate
Quote from: DR SCHNITZEL;646289did you find the problem mate
No :mad: Dunno whether to start testing coils etc or what
Any ideas?
Just thought of something else that causes similar symptoms to what you have described.
Check, (if fitted) to make sure the cat is not blocked as if the internals collapse and block up this causes loss of power and some major bucking/backfire
Quote from: neil_jdmr;646321Just thought of something else that causes similar symptoms to what you have described.
Check, (if fitted) to make sure the cat is not blocked as if the internals collapse and block up this causes loss of power and some major bucking/backfire
Hhhmmm must check if it has a cat alright, I\'d be guessing it doesn\'t but must check! Cheers mate ;)
When does it back fire when you back off of accelerator and the revs are coming down?
rgds
Brian
Quote from: bnaellis;646329When does it back fire when you back off of accelerator and the revs are coming down?
rgds
Brian
No basically the car will have no power & be seriously lumpy, wont rev out then it will chug a bit & back fire then be perfect straight after.
I couldnt get it to clear out on Sunday nite before switching it off so just left it & drove my evo for the last two days. Then went to start it tonight & it started on the button as usual but was hesitating & bucking for a few seconds of driving then cleared out & drove perfect but didn\'t go far in it (so didn\'t get to heat up 100% which is when it seems to happen, when hot)
Weird.....
Quote from: Dizz;646331No basically the car will have no power & be seriously lumpy, wont rev out then it will chug a bit & back fire then be perfect straight after.
I couldnt get it to clear out on Sunday nite before switching it off so just left it & drove my evo for the last two days. Then went to start it tonight & it started on the button as usual but was hesitating & bucking for a few seconds of driving then cleared out & drove perfect but didn\'t go far in it (so didn\'t get to heat up 100% which is when it seems to happen, when hot)
Weird.....
Has the car been mapped or is it runing on base map?
can you check that the primary injector connectors are pushed on fully?
rgds
Brian
Quote from: bnaellis;646334Has the car been mapped or is it runing on base map?
can you check that the primary injector connectors are pushed on fully?
rgds
Brian
Very valid question about the map. Basically the story with the car is that the engine went while pip was mapping it & then came back to Ireland on a trailer. The engine was rebuilt by Eddie Doyle over here & was left sitting, then I bought it. I need to get it mapped obviously but am only half way through the run in mileage & still sticking to the 2,500 rpm. If I go over the 2,500 rpm the knock light flashes so never do. I\'m in a catch 22, can\'t get it mapped because it\'s still being run in & can\'t drive it over 2,500 cause of the map lol. Really need to get the map at least checked but no one in this country really :(
Quote from: Dizz;646338Very valid question about the map. Basically the story with the car is that the engine went while pip was mapping it & then came back to Ireland on a trailer. The engine was rebuilt by Eddie Doyle over here & was left sitting, then I bought it. I need to get it mapped obviously but am only half way through the run in mileage & still sticking to the 2,500 rpm. If I go over the 2,500 rpm the knock light flashes so never do. I\'m in a catch 22, can\'t get it mapped because it\'s still being run in & can\'t drive it over 2,500 cause of the map lol. Really need to get the map at least checked but no one in this country really :(
You don\'t need to stick to 2,500 to run an engine in. What injectors do you have fitted to the car? So for length between replies i\'m snowed under at work.
rgds
Brian
Quote from: bnaellis;646345You don\'t need to stick to 2,500 to run an engine in. What injectors do you have fitted to the car? So for length between replies i\'m snowed under at work.
rgds
Brian
No problem at all mate, I really appreciate the help. I have to stick to the 2,500 either way because of the knock level & not being able to get it mapped till it\'s run in. As for the injectors I\'m embarrassed to say I have no idea... The previous owner lost the spec sheet for the car & I\'ve been able to work out most things but that\'s one thing I haven\'t. Is there any way of finding out?
I just took the car for a quick spin there (as the exhaust is incredibly loud & I live in a built up area so couln\'t stay out long) The car drove fine pretty much so it just seems to be when the engine gets hot from decent drive (engine bay temps perhaps?). I guess I won\'t really know till I bring it for a proper drive tomorrow night :rolleyes:
mine only used to do it when the auto warm up sequence had finished and the idle revs dropped. dont know why or how but it did!
Quote from: Dizz;646352No problem at all mate, I really appreciate the help. I have to stick to the 2,500 either way because of the knock level & not being able to get it mapped till it\'s run in. As for the injectors I\'m embarrassed to say I have no idea... The previous owner lost the spec sheet for the car & I\'ve been able to work out most things but that\'s one thing I haven\'t. Is there any way of finding out?
I just took the car for a quick spin there (as the exhaust is incredibly loud & I live in a built up area so couln\'t stay out long) The car drove fine pretty much so it just seems to be when the engine gets hot from decent drive (engine bay temps perhaps?). I guess I won\'t really know till I bring it for a proper drive tomorrow night :rolleyes:
The knock light lights up for other stuff other thank just knock.
You will not be seeing knock at rpm regards of half or full throttle.
If you rev the car in neutral once you go above 2500 rpm?
Do you have the commander or datalogit to hand to check what seetings for injectors are?
when you say your not mapped yet, does that mean your running on base map?
injectors are under the upper intake manifold. I will upload a pic in a sec.
rgds
Brian
Quote from: bnaellis;646373The knock light lights up for other stuff other thank just knock.
You will not be seeing knock at rpm regards of half or full throttle.
If you rev the car in neutral once you go above 2500 rpm?
Do you have the commander or datalogit to hand to check what seetings for injectors are?
when you say your not mapped yet, does that mean your running on base map?
injectors are under the upper intake manifold. I will upload a pic in a sec.
rgds
Brian
The knock reading on the hand commander is high though too especially when the knock (heat) light comes on. I have the hand commander in the car yes, can I find out what size the injectors are from that? (I know obviously it might be wrong) A huge problem I have is that I don\'t know who the last person to put a map on the car was, I can only presume it was PIP when it blew on the dyno as I don\'t think the person who rebuilt the engine after would have gone near it. Just wish there was someone around Dublin/Ireland who could have a look for me or a way of getting it checked by someone in UK without actually driving over :(
I can see two of the injectors, pretty new looking & light blue in colour if that means anything??? :confused: :)
A few things I can think of to look at chap. Does it smell of petrol really badly when it\'s misbehaving? If yes, then you might well have some kind of misfire and it\'s not burning properly. Check ignition related stuff.
If not, I suspect it\'s running really lean (this is more likely from what you\'re describing) and you\'ve got a faulty pump or power supply to pump, or possibly a bad connection to one of the primary injectors, or even a faulty/sticky injector.
Quote from: Dizz;646540The knock reading on the hand commander is high though too especially when the knock (heat) light comes on. I have the hand commander in the car yes, can I find out what size the injectors are from that? (I know obviously it might be wrong) A huge problem I have is that I don\'t know who the last person to put a map on the car was, I can only presume it was PIP when it blew on the dyno as I don\'t think the person who rebuilt the engine after would have gone near it. Just wish there was someone around Dublin/Ireland who could have a look for me or a way of getting it checked by someone in UK without actually driving over :(
I can see two of the injectors, pretty new looking & light blue in colour if that means anything??? :confused: :)
Those will be Bosch 1600 or 1680cc secondary injectors. If you look carefully at the primary injectors you can see a tiny bit of colour at the top are they burgundy?
You can give me a call tomorrow during my lunch break as that\'s literally the only time im free at work. I will talk you through the use of the hand controller.
rgds
Brian
07590 539 624
Quote from: ianelvar;646556A few things I can think of to look at chap. Does it smell of petrol really badly when it\'s misbehaving? If yes, then you might well have some kind of misfire and it\'s not burning properly. Check ignition related stuff.
If not, I suspect it\'s running really lean (this is more likely from what you\'re describing) and you\'ve got a faulty pump or power supply to pump, or possibly a bad connection to one of the primary injectors, or even a faulty/sticky injector.
Ye mate, it reeeeks of petrol wen its happening & theres black smoke until it clears out of it... I guess I\'m going to need to be checking the coils (which I presume is a plenum off jobie?) Just wish I had another set of coils to try in it... :(
@ bnaelli: I\'m really really sorry mate, I\'m only seeing this now. I don\'t get on at all during the day... I really appreciate your help though. Only thing is the car is too bad to drive so I haven\'t been bringing it into work lately so wouldn\'t have it to hand if I rang you on a lunch break :o
Oh & what are these boxes that are attached to my injectors???
(http://i37.tinypic.com/293j8kh.jpg)
Pic of the (secondary?) injectors:
(http://i34.tinypic.com/mubc6e.jpg)
injector resistors
Doesn\'t the apexi have PWM current limit? Strange...
Anyway, could be a number of things that make it run pig rich - might not be coils, but they\'re worth checking. We\'re looking for an intermittant fault, so more than likely a bad connection somewhere. You don\'t have to take the plenum off to test the coils or have a prod at their connectors. Just remove the intake elbow and you\'ll be fine. The coil connectors are a bit flimsy, so check that the clips are still there and the metal inserts haven\'t come loose.
You could also check the cooland temp sensor, map sensor, and crank angle sensors. Do you get any out of norm readings on the commander while it\'s being funny? Low engine temp, high manifold pressure reading etc?
Just another thought, but could the fuel pressure be doing funny things? From the pics you\'ve got a aftermarket rail, so I\'m assuming you\'ve got some kind of non-original regulator? Might be worth checking before you get too burried in the wiring. A dodgy regulator could easily make it over fuel.
Quote from: ianelvar;646830Doesn\'t the apexi have PWM current limit? Strange...
Anyway, could be a number of things that make it run pig rich - might not be coils, but they\'re worth checking. We\'re looking for an intermittant fault, so more than likely a bad connection somewhere. You don\'t have to take the plenum off to test the coils or have a prod at their connectors. Just remove the intake elbow and you\'ll be fine. The coil connectors are a bit flimsy, so check that the clips are still there and the metal inserts haven\'t come loose.
You could also check the cooland temp sensor, map sensor, and crank angle sensors. Do you get any out of norm readings on the commander while it\'s being funny? Low engine temp, high manifold pressure reading etc?
Just another thought, but could the fuel pressure be doing funny things? From the pics you\'ve got a aftermarket rail, so I\'m assuming you\'ve got some kind of non-original regulator? Might be worth checking before you get too burried in the wiring. A dodgy regulator could easily make it over fuel.
From what I remember the fuel pressure regulator looked like a standard one which had me wondering, it just has braded & silicon lines off it. I\'ll try get a look later & few pics of the entire setup. I just find it weird that it was running fine & isn\'t now just all of a sudden.
It literally happens as the engine reaches about 86 degrees it starts to idle badly & then miss firing & back firing. All the values on the hand commander stay the same (roughly), no major changes. I will have a go later & just watch it while it\'s starting to happen maybe
if you press the up button on the commander it will show peak values...
if you get it displaying 4 values you can press the up button it will show you the current live value and also peak hold value at the same time...
might be worth downloading the powerfc manual as it will tell you how to use the commander also... if you look it the technical guide part of this forum i think there is a link to download it
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37534
found the link for you :)
Cool. Let us know what you can see from the commander. It\'s only an idea about the regulator, and I\'m not so sure about it if you\'re saying it only happens once you reach a specific temp. Is the reg still connected to the solenoid, and the solenoid to the manifold? Pics would be good to see how its connected.
Thanks guys, brought it out to the guy who rebuilt the engine today to see if he had any ideas, car ran perfectly the whole way there & while it was there & he was looking over it. The only thing he noticed on the hand commander was the throttle position sensor voltage was out of range (0.3v I think). Then as soon as I was on my way home it started acting up, it\'s getting a lot worse now too :mad: :Grrr
Was on the motorway & then came off, came to the first traffic lights & the exhaust note changed, was hard to accelerate as usual (no power/misfire) & then the bangs. Wouldn\'t clear out again until I went back onto the motorway & had it in fifth gear at about 3,000 rpm for a few mins & it "coughed" back to normal exhaust note & reved freely until again I came back off the motorway & slowed down & hey-presto it happened again. So sick of it, can\'t drive the car at all anymore. It just sits in my driveway :mad:
@ ianelvar: I took some pics in the engine bay 2day, will try get them up 2mor
this may have nothing to do with ur prob but i though i would post it anyway.
i had exactley the same problem as you was fine one minute then a pig the next went through all sorts of checks and found that the water temp sensor seemed to be going all over the place even giving negative figures on the commander i went through all sorts of checks wiring etc then took the power fc ecu out and checked the connections, they were mainly fine but some were green corroded, (the ecu was 12 months old) cleaned up the connections and all was good for a while until out of the blue it did it again. i pulled out the ecu to find some moisture on it.
what had happened was there was a v small water leak that was comming in through a screw that held the plastic cover on below the windscreen this leak went into the air blower then slowly dripped out onto the wiring and ran down the commander cable into the ecu, this caused the corrosion and the ecu to go loopy (the last time it played up it had rained the night before) as a temp fix i dried out the ecu sprayed the connections with connection lubricant and put the whole lot into a freezer bag and put it back in place. this was over a year ago and i never had the problem since and although i have resealed all the plastic trim screws my ecu still sits in its nice raincoat.
like i said may not be the same as your prob but the symptoms are identicle.
good luck sorting your probs out
Thanks man, just in the middle of checking over a few things so will check that too :)
The engine builder told me to check the ECU wiring alright for loose connections but checked & can\'t see any. I did find hand writing on the back of the ECU though which I can only presume is by Pip saying that there\'s only a mase map on the ecu & that it needs to go on a dyno to run "safely"...
I just find it weird that it only seems to be when the engine is hot & never cold. My head\'s melted at this stage becaust I can\'t drive the car so can\'t get up the mileage to go over to Pip for remap :Hammer
Quote from: Dizz;647194Thanks man, just in the middle of checking over a few things so will check that too :)
The engine builder told me to check the ECU wiring alright for loose connections but checked & can\'t see any. I did find hand writing on the back of the ECU though which I can only presume is by Pip saying that there\'s only a mase map on the ecu & that it needs to go on a dyno to run "safely"...
I just find it weird that it only seems to be when the engine is hot & never cold. My head\'s melted at this stage becaust I can\'t drive the car so can\'t get up the mileage to go over to Pip for remap :Hammer
If the throttle pos sensor is out of range that will cause the problem especially when the engine is warmed up. ajust it so it\'s in range and bob should be your uncle.
rgds
Brian
I\'ll give it a go now if I can figure it out, cheers mate, I\'ll let you know! Fingers crossed! :driving
Went to do this earlier on & the figures were almost spot on already so couldn\'t do anything with it :mad: Don\'t know how he thought they were out of tolerance :xconfused
I had it running in my front garden for about 15-20 mins & it was perfect, only seems to be when you drive it & then come to a stop :Grrr
Back to the drawing board ...... :3Confused
Quote from: Dizz;647515Went to do this earlier on & the figures were almost spot on already so couldn\'t do anything with it :mad: Don\'t know how he thought they were out of tolerance :xconfused
I had it running in my front garden for about 15-20 mins & it was perfect, only seems to be when you drive it & then come to a stop :Grrr
Back to the drawing board ...... :3Confused
dont forget all signals go thrugh the ecu. if u have corrosion on any connections or moisture in the ecu it can give false readings on the commander like it did with mine, or have you checked these already?
have you done a sensor check on the commander to make sure they are all working??? it will show up if any sensors are out, i would go about replacing all of them first :(
Ye mate, tried that alright. It didn\'t show up anything... :mad::mad:
Calling over to AndyGen3 on Sat & going to try his coils on it & maybe a few other things to try get to the bottom of this. Then straight onto WGT to get booked in :chat
:( unlucky mate hopefully it will be something simple! could be something like engine loom melted or something... im sure pip will sort it for you though!
Well I just decided to pull out the plugs to clean them & have a look at the condition of each one (as I\'d only taken one out before). What a concoction (sp) of plugs I found. This is how it looked
T - BUR9EQ ---- Greddy 11
L - Greddy 10 -- Greddy 11
(viewed looking straight on at the plugs obv)
I\'m sure this can\'t be helping running matters???
So next question is what plugs do people use when running the car in? I\'ve yet to go over 2,500-3,000 rpm as I\'m only half way through running in so I\'m sure that doesn\'t work well with the 11 heat range plugs...
Woohooooooo! We have a result :Thumbsup!
It was the 11 heat range plugs that were in the rear rotor! Obviously because of my not driving over 2,500 rpm they were fouling up & not getting the heat needed to clean themselves. I have put 9s in all round now for the last bit of my run in (thanks AndyGen3!)
YAY!
glad you got it sorted! i would have a word with the people who built the engine and ask why they stuck odd plugs in...
Glad you got sorted man :)