Ive just got back from an eventfull weekend at norfolk arena where the 4th round of the BDC was held. Unfortunately, multiple issues with cooling and the engine itself caused me nightmares on the saturday.. finishing a dissapointing 13th :( but that was then overcome with a 3rd place podium finish in the team event..:Kingbut that wasnt without more of the same issues...
power steering belt breaking:- i had a powersteering belt fail twice, mid lap!!.. (not snap but fray very badly then come off), once nearly causing an accident and both times the belt was brand new..:2Mad clearance with the intercooler pipework was the obvious culprit so we sorted that... with a good half an inch clearance while engine is off.. but this meant we had to raise my bonnet..
but SOMEHOW its still catching it :confused::eek:
this means the engine has some SERIOUS travel. I mean i know they shake alot, hell my entire car rocks side to side quite violently.. but thats mad. :2Confused
- so we are now thinking perhaps the enigne mounts are broken/shot/missing.. has anyone had simular issues?
- does anyone know where to get an engine dampener/brace?
- anyone know somewhere to get engine mounts/GB mounts?? other than MMR?
steering noise/spongey response:after the event and at some points during the sterring started to whine badly.. the initial thought was a re-emmergance of my power-steering overheating problem.. but on the way home casual driving it did it worse.. and made a much more \'metalic grinding\' noise when turning right only. when goign left it made the more classic \'drone\' or \'whine\'.
- we thinking maybe its done another pump, or perhaps some kind of rack bushing? or a steering rack issue itself??
we are unsure as myself and most of my mates are used to working on SR/CA engines from nissans. :D So any advice is appreciated.
cooling:- average motorway casual driving water temps: 85-88 degrees
- one lap (3-6 corners) on full load drifting: 90-97degrees depending on agression.
- 2/3 continuous laps (as needed during qualification) 99-110 degrees :eek:
- if left on idle, with no electric aftermarket fans running it reaches 105 degrees (at which point i paniced and put fans on and did slow laps of the pits).
- can someone tell me the standard or average temps.. as i fear these are extremely hot and are damaging the engine.. it also make me drive \'less commited\' as i fear for the rotary reliability????
- can someone give me some advice on how to increase the cooling????...
I currently run a V-mount setup with a haywards rotary IC and rad.. (unknown make), twin electric fans with dash-switch operation (pretty much on from engine start)
I have a water to oil cooler that you can use on your steering rack....that would keep that cooler. Which I think is the problem with your steering noise.
Your water may not be the problem you think it is, depending on the type of seals Carl used when rebuilding your engine. Remember the engine cooling system is pressurised so 110 deg isn\'t actually 110 degs....if that makes sense!
Also depends on where you have your temp sensor. The standard one in the water filler neck is useless, as most of the time it is in steam so will give you a false reading. I fitted a sensor boss in the water pipe, and that way it is always in the water.
The V-mount set up is supplied by Radtec. Make sure the ducting is sufficient around the radiator...it needs to be! Air will take the path of least resistance, so if there are any gaps it wont go through your rad!
Afraid i can\'t really offer any help.
though, seeing as the top of your engine is FD, you should be able to get away with an FD engine torque damper, not sure where these are sold.
Other than that, i\'d say give hayward a call seeing as they built it!
Also congrats on the team event, looked awesome!
What engine mount bushes do you have, a bridgeported engine does rock a lot if the bushes are shot!
these are the mounts i use and like alot
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RX7-Rx-7-Solid-FC-FC3S-Motor-Engine-Tranny-Mounts_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem19b61e145dQQitemZ110429607005QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_1182wt_1167
hmm interesting link...
was about to buy the \'complete drivetrain setup\' and at the same time buy the camber links to finally sort my camber out..now i dunno which to get.
Cheers for the Advice Atomic.. I\'ve dropped Carl an email too so I\'m sure he\'ll get back to me. I\'ve jsut wired up all the electric side of all my new gauges (oil/water temp, oil pressure and boost) and the senders are next on the list.. need to find out what size sandwich plate to get or where to tap the temp sender in. Again ill prob speak to Carl about it. didnt realised the pressurised system would effect temp reading accuracy?
Quote from: AtomicRex;638694Remember the engine cooling system is pressurised so 110 deg isn\'t actually 110 degs....if that makes sense!
Could you elaborate on this please Jon
sorry just realised i didnt mention in last post that the complete drivetrain setup os from MMR:
http://www.mmr-direct.com/catalog1/RX7FC/
really not sure which to get.. being a drift car im swaying towards the solid CNC\'d set from ebay... but i loose out on the diff mounts.. although the complete set is not ally. so not sure which to go with..
Quote from: Jit;638726Could you elaborate on this please Jon
water doesnt behave the same, eg. it doesnt boil at 100 deg
Quote from: dthebuk;638695though, seeing as the top of your engine is FD, you should be able to get away with an FD engine torque damper, not sure where these are sold.
Other than that, i\'d say give hayward a call seeing as they built it!
Also congrats on the team event, looked awesome!
cheers dude. team event was great. I\'ve been looking into dampeners with no luck so far.
Quote from: m1tch;638696What engine mount bushes do you have, a bridgeported engine does rock a lot if the bushes are shot!
erm.. standard i guess... probably he same ones that were on it in its first yr of use back in 1989 lol. Thats what made me think the excessive rubbing is down to the crazy amount of movement.. therefor mounts
Quote from: m4drx;638728water doesnt behave the same, eg. it doesnt boil at 100 deg
Thats kidna what I guessed...
so that raises the question.. at hat temps should i begin to think \'oh .... shes gonna pop\' :confused:
Quote from: AtomicRex;638694Also depends on where you have your temp sensor. The standard one in the water filler neck is useless, as most of the time it is in steam so will give you a false reading. I fitted a sensor boss in the water pipe, and that way it is always in the water.
Thats not quite correct. The gauge isnt in steam. At 1.9 bar (or 0.9 bar above atmospheric which is what you are basically pressurizing the system to with a 0.9 bar cap) the boiling point of pure water is 120. So the gauge isnt in steam until 120 degC
Quote from: m4drx;638728water doesnt behave the same, eg. it doesnt boil at 100 deg
I know that. But 110 degs is 110 degs.
Also can you clarify Phil, you said on idle, it reaches 105 without the electric fans. Do you mean there are no fans on the rad running and it hits 105.
If thats the case, then im not bloody surprised. Without fans, it dont matter what rad youve got, its gonna overheat when stationary!
If you\'re still running the stock mounts then they won\'t poke up with the abuse for long. Iirc you can still get competition mounts from MazdaSpeed USA.
Quote from: Jit;638735Also can you clarify Phil, you said on idle, it reaches 105 without the electric fans. Do you mean there are no fans on the rad running and it hits 105.
If thats the case, then im not bloody surprised. Without fans, it dont matter what rad youve got, its gonna overheat when stationary!
I think he means when they are switched off - he mentioned somewhere that he had a switch in the cabin to turn them on and off.
I can\'t help thinking that part of the problem is drift cars tend to push high output powers and generate a lot of heat, without necessarily going very fast through the air - so rads and intercoolers need to be that much bigger to get rid of the heat generated.
How big is the rad ? Also, there are different flow patterns through radiators - some have an N pattern that provides a longer path through the rad to allow more cooling time (Koyo for example)
Quote from: Jit;638733Thats not quite correct. The gauge isnt in steam. At 1.9 bar (or 0.9 bar above atmospheric which is what you are basically pressurizing the system to with a 0.9 bar cap) the boiling point of pure water is 120. So the gauge isnt in steam until 120 degC
This is very true...it isn\'t actually in a gaseous state until the water is actually boiling.
The caps are rated between 16.4 and 20.6 psi which is equivalent to a boiling point of 127.88 to 135.02 deg C
However I was simplifying the system by saying that in my experience the water doesn\'t always stay filled up to the cap, and so therefore there is air between the water level and the sensor. OK so the air isn\'t necessarily steam, but I think we are talking semantics here.
By putting the sensor in a boss lower down the system you are guaranteed of always being in water, and so the reading will be a lot more accurate.
Quote from: Brett;638740If you\'re still running the stock mounts then they won\'t poke up with the abuse for long. Iirc you can still get competition mounts from MazdaSpeed USA.
aye that was my thoughts too. I\'ve just ordered a full set of solid mounts from states. :yes
Quote from: Prof;638743I think he means when they are switched off - he mentioned somewhere that he had a switch in the cabin to turn them on and off.
I did.. I forgot to turn the fans on after queueing the car up for qualifying.. came back and it was scary hot.. i dont recall ever having a stadard fan so to speak, only the aftermarket ones.. so wsa curious of the OEM idle temps.
Quote from: Prof;638743I can\'t help thinking that part of the problem is drift cars tend to push high output powers and generate a lot of heat, without necessarily going very fast through the air - so rads and intercoolers need to be that much bigger to get rid of the heat generated.
How big is the rad ? Also, there are different flow patterns through radiators - some have an N pattern that provides a longer path through the rad to allow more cooling time (Koyo for example)
That is right on the nail, and the main battle for drift cars. Everyone knows it and its a constant struggle. The FC is in early stages of development, this being the first itteration. Carl @ Haywards is on it and is always improving it, this was just for my own knowledge research. Cars going for ducting and setup changes this week.
Quote from: AtomicRex;638755This is very true...it isn\'t actually in a gaseous state until the water is actually boiling.
The caps are rated between 16.4 and 20.6 psi which is equivalent to a boiling point of 127.88 to 135.02 deg C
However I was simplifying the system by saying that in my experience the water doesn\'t always stay filled up to the cap, and so therefore there is air between the water level and the sensor. OK so the air isn\'t necessarily steam, but I think we are talking semantics here.
By putting the sensor in a boss lower down the system you are guaranteed of always being in water, and so the reading will be a lot more accurate.
interesting to know, i dont know what ratings my caps are off top of my heat, but with a sensor to fit soon, im curious to what location you have/would use in an FC? Im thinking the rad hose (at top)? Like i did on my s14 SR20?
That is exactly where I would put it.