Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Anything Engine/Performance/Tuning related => Topic started by: bnaellis on April 26, 2004, 11:16:28 AM

Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on April 26, 2004, 11:16:28 AM
I have finally got round to booking a visit to the bhp clinic.
Car will on the Dyno soon tuned and ready to go to rotorstock:D

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: 20B_boy on April 26, 2004, 12:07:57 PM
When u going bri? do you have any power estimates? just for a laugh :)
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on April 26, 2004, 01:20:31 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by 20B_boy
When u going bri? do you have any power estimates? just for a laugh :)

Wouldn\'t be better for me to go and then tell you how much horses I own then you can laugh  at me rather than laughing at me in advance:D

I\'m expecting around 380 at the wheels I wold like 400 + at the wheels but I know I\'ll be too chicken to push too hard and go pop before rotorstock even starts so I think about 380rwhp 460fwhp

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: J4P RX on April 26, 2004, 01:33:37 PM
Brian,

I was driving through Lingfield yesterday on my way to a friends.  The 2 minutes it took to navigate reminded me just how dopey the majority of its residents are.  I cant imagine you driving the white car through there - watch out for the idiots :D

Lee
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 17, 2004, 10:29:16 PM
I been out datalogging even with 3.9 final drive this car is so quick. There\'s me saying all this now and find out it only has 300rwhp on wednesday lol:rolleyes:
Car does pull very strong though I really cannot wait for rotorstock. Hope you got your nos ready Tim your gonna need every drop in that bottle.:rollin

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on May 17, 2004, 10:40:07 PM
Brian, what boost was that at??

I was about to run mine at rotorstock but awaiting remap which is booked in for june 4th so just spectating now:(

Am trying to get it up to 1.2bar if poss without major spending as shes complaining (as they do!!) not sure which injectors i got once thats cleared up we can remap hopefully.

Gurj
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 17, 2004, 10:50:28 PM
Hi Gurj

I have .7 bar (10)psi set on my boost controller but on maptracer mode on the apexi I saw it in the 13 psi block ?
So I guess maptracer is correct. It pulled so hard in 3rd I thought something is going to give luckily the car didn\'t break apart even though I felt it had to going at warp speed and I made it home in one piece.
I thought you had an apexi ecu & commander it will tell you what size injectors via the commander you have.
You could always run it as it is for fun you don\'t have to run high boost to run at rotorstock. A t78 with low boost will still lay the smackdown on a lot of pretenders.:D

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on May 17, 2004, 11:06:34 PM
Thanks for the kind words, yea even at low boost its quick but i\'d like to run it as it should be running rather than the way it is at the mo.:(

It made 341bhp at 0.7 at low boost setting so quick needless to say, but really wanna see what it can do, turbos not doing much at that:eek:
Title: white single turbo
Post by: 20B_boy on May 18, 2004, 12:00:59 AM
When r u going to CPL then Bri?
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 06:30:01 PM
Right do you want the excuses or just the facts ?:mad:
Went to a cash point in sheerness it eat my card. I always use that card so don\'t know the pin for my other. Contingecy plan A
In one of the kitchen cupboards at my parents I have written my pin as I can never remember. The house is being redecorated this week and the cupboards have been thrown.:mad:
1 hour later of much phone calls a burst of inspiration I remember my pin. I go back to cpl I can\'t map my car datalogit not talking to my ecu.:reallymad  Find a bent pin in the plug manage to straighten without breaking. Done a power run air/fuel off the grapgh it\'s so rich but worse than that my boost is showing 18psi so Guy at cpl backs off as this is at only 5,000 rpm.
one hour later manage to work out that the boost controller works but the levels it shows are different from real manifold pressure. Managed to get the boost to 13.5 psi. By now I\'m confused both the apexi and the boost controller shows the same boost but the dyno computer reads something higher:confused:  Start mapping finally but did not get to map properly as I would of liked because short on time as I had limited amount of cash. I mapped  to 13 psi  at first and a little up to 16 psi but need to go back and get it done properly now everything works as it should. The timing is still conservative so more to come from it yet but with a 0.84 a/r housing I guess not much more. I can hear half of you saying shut Brian and tell us how much power you got:rollin
I \'m posting my dyno sheet one second.

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: antnicuk on May 19, 2004, 06:44:50 PM
Gurj,
at 341 bhp you have more power than me, and i managed 12.5 on my third ever run. You should get low 12\'s and make it to the top 16 competitors with ease.  It will be a shame if your beast is not running.
regards
tony
Title: white single turbo
Post by: J4P RX on May 19, 2004, 06:45:20 PM
If this is your idea of a second then we needant worry about it at rotorstock :D

Get a move on :spank
Title: white single turbo
Post by: antnicuk on May 19, 2004, 06:47:08 PM
brian,
who was dataloggin it?
tony
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 06:58:33 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by antnicuk
brian,
who was dataloggin it?
tony


I did it. I\'ll need to go back to finish it properly but I am very pleased for my first time.

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: J4P RX on May 19, 2004, 06:59:28 PM
Just post the figures!  I gotta have a bath in a minute, I want to know now!
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 07:12:46 PM
dyno sheet
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 07:17:08 PM
I\'m beeing serious though had such a bad day with things going wrong didn\'t spend that much time mapping. Timings still conservative and air fuel ratio across the torque range was very conservative 10.3 leaned out to 11 after peak talk but as I said didn\'t have much time left to map after sorting out all the issues.

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: J4P RX on May 19, 2004, 07:35:02 PM
Is that wheels or using the conversion rates to show an engine figure?
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 07:43:34 PM
That\'s wheels.

Depending on conversion rate some use 18% some 20%
it\'s either 449 or 460 bhp at flywheel.

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: J4P RX on May 19, 2004, 07:48:58 PM
Nice one, and with more to come :)
Title: white single turbo
Post by: 20B_boy on May 19, 2004, 09:25:57 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by BNA_ELLIS
Timings still conservative
What timing are/are you going to run thru the power Bri? Geffs mapping with minimal advance of late whilst hes making good enough power. Interested to see what winding in a chunk more timing does on your car. Know it will make lots more. What boost are u going to run when all and done?

Good numbers any way mate, Guy\'s a nice bloke, isnt he...
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 09:27:28 PM
To stop everyone  twisting their neck lol.
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 09:46:40 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by 20B_boy
What timing are/are you going to run thru the power Bri? Geffs mapping with minimal advance of late whilst hes making good enough power. Interested to see what winding in a chunk more timing does on your car. Know it will make lots more. What boost are u going to run when all and done?

Good numbers any way mate, Guy\'s a nice bloke, isnt he...

Yeah Guy\'s a cool bloke.
I\'m not going to run much advance infact i\'m not running much now If I advance another degree or two with hardly any change Ill keep it as it is but timing is very flat up top at present. I didn\'t have time to experiment with split either.
16-17 psi I don\'t see the point of having a single turbo and running it at twin turbo boost. I would thought with the small a/r housing the power would of dropped off at top end but didn\'t even with flat timing curve.
I think we should  open a pub talk section for threads like this :D
Oh by the way I was still worried the car was gonna jump off the rollers. The thing was so loud when he was doing runs I though the thing was gonna explode. A good first time experience though.

rgds

:rollin
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on May 19, 2004, 10:27:17 PM
Thats more like it Brian could tell you were very dissapointed with the 300hp figure originally quoted:(

Hopefully when mine gets remapped will be looking close to 500hp...he says, hopefully dont quote me though we\'ll see not till june though.

Good stuff, will be good to see the single white run at rotorstock, with those figures last 16 possibly???

Rgds
Gurj
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on May 19, 2004, 10:30:03 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by antnicuk
Gurj,
at 341 bhp you have more power than me, and i managed 12.5 on my third ever run. You should get low 12\'s and make it to the top 16 competitors with ease.  It will be a shame if your beast is not running.
regards
tony

Tony,

the 341 was made at 0.7psi!!! i had a radiator problem so ran very low boost, soon gonna remap close to 500hp, hopefully.
Currently runs at around 14psi making approx 450bhp. Radiator now replaced at cost of £730:eek:
Title: white single turbo
Post by: 20B_boy on May 19, 2004, 10:35:54 PM
Yeah, tis scary to start with, been a few times now and you learn what really is loud - and more to the point what is good loud and what isnt!
Title: white single turbo
Post by: Wav on May 19, 2004, 10:36:49 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by gsb876
Tony,

the 341 was made at 0.7psi!!! i had a radiator problem so ran very low boost, soon gonna remap close to 500hp, hopefully.
Currently runs at around 14psi making approx 450bhp. Radiator now replaced at cost of £730:eek:

Gutted about your rad Gurj, did it wear a hole right through then?:eek: What condition is your old rad in? and if you still have it would you sell it????? I\'m sure I could tack it up, lol.

Regards, Paul:)

P.S. Good power figures Brian, I can\'t wait for Rotorstock now:D, It will be strange for me being one of the few with a totally stock engine, lol
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 10:59:00 PM
Cheers Paul,

I\'m sure you\'ll probably end up leaving with a few aftermarkets though:D
it will interesting to see how I do off the line against the guy\'s in slicks as this rocks off the start:D


rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 19, 2004, 11:02:29 PM
460 flywheel don\'t feel like it though maybe cause I had my mate
in the car with me. Saying I took it easy on the way home with high intake temps caused by rush hour traffic.
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on May 19, 2004, 11:25:28 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Wav
Gutted about your rad Gurj, did it wear a hole right through then?:eek: What condition is your old rad in? and if you still have it would you sell it????? I\'m sure I could tack it up, lol.

Regards, Paul:)

Paul,

old rads gone in bin a while ago, sorry didn\'t think to let you have it, sorry pal.

Gurj
Title: white single turbo
Post by: antnicuk on May 20, 2004, 03:54:05 AM
Gurj,
running those sorts of figures you would have no problem getting into the elevens and being in the invited top 16. let alone the other 16.  Thats more power than anyone else on here.  We all think you should run. The more rotaries there are running the less other things will get in.
go on you know you want to.
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on May 20, 2004, 10:38:47 AM
Hi Tony,

cant launch very well, but what i might do is let Ross drag it for me as hes used to the twin plate clutch launch.

Or might try it first myself and then let Ross have a go, not sure yet, but really want to get the remap done before doing the 1/4 mile.

Besides may only come on the monday to rotorstock, if i come on sunday might have a quick blast, we\'ll see.

But i think brian\'s is making the same sort of power as mine so his figures for 1/4 will be interesting too:)

Gurj
Title: white single turbo
Post by: antnicuk on May 20, 2004, 08:26:11 PM
practice makes perfect.  Just pretend you are at the lights with a twin turbo porsche that need destroying:burnout
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 21, 2004, 10:38:28 AM
MAX,

My intake temps during my runs were between 42- 49 on the datalogit. Does this make much difference to power or not ??

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: Wav on May 21, 2004, 10:54:25 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by BNA_ELLIS
MAX,

My intake temps during my runs were between 42- 49 on the datalogit. Does this make much difference to power or not ??

rgds

The most important temp is the ACT after the intercooler, i.e. what temp the charge is entering the engine, i\'m guessing that is what\'s listed on the dataloggit?.

Obviously the intake temp will help define this temp along with how much heat is caused by compressing the air and heat soak from the turbo (smaller the turbo the higher this will be as it\'ll be working harder), boost pipes etc. Remember the larger the temp difference (before and after) the more efficent an intercooler will be, but obviously the lower they are to start with the better;).  

Maybe a water spray on the intercooler will help reduce them further (even WI if set up correctly), if you can get them down to 30degrees or less then you\'re onto a winner, the cooler the charge the more denser the air, therefore more oxygen enters the engine and as long as there is enough fuel, then the bigger the bang hence more power:bandit How much extra is debatable, but you\'ll definitely be much less likely to get detonation with lower charge temps(as long as you have the fuel), so it can\'t be a bad thing:cool

Regards,

Paul:)
Title: white single turbo
Post by: maximtaylor on May 21, 2004, 10:56:21 AM
Temps sound not too bad to me Brian. Mine tends to get up to about 15 degrees above ambient on occasion.

To give you a rough idea of power, each 10 degree celsius drop in intake temps increases the air density by around 5%.

By my experience mapping my car, the ratio of density to power is roughly equal, that is, if you raise boost at a given temperaure (and hence same atmospheric density) by 10 %, I get around 10% increase in power.

So, in short, I would reckon every 10 degrees you can drop the intake temps, you\'ll get a 5% increase in power.

This is why I must pull my finger out and get my Aquamist working!

Max
Title: white single turbo
Post by: ScuttleRX on May 21, 2004, 12:30:13 PM
At woodbridge a few weeks back, i was reading an intake temp of 60 on my first run, and got a 14sec run.

2nd run I left the bonnet up, and pushed the car most of way to start line, had an intake temp of 30, and got a 13.39 sec run...

so def makes a difference :D
Title: white single turbo
Post by: J4P RX on May 21, 2004, 12:36:58 PM
You got 60ft times on those runs.  Would be surprised if it made that much of a difference ;)
Title: white single turbo
Post by: ScuttleRX on May 21, 2004, 12:47:34 PM
yeah i know theres a lot of other variables ;)

Just it felt a lot easier on the 2nd run, felt pretty breathless in the high rpm on the first one
Title: white single turbo
Post by: antnicuk on May 21, 2004, 01:47:06 PM
it was probably more to do with the fact the ecu retards the ignition and i thinks reduces the boost a little when reading high temps.  Just a little safety feature which will slow you down a little!
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on May 21, 2004, 03:26:55 PM
When i\'m driving on the road my intake temp is normally approx 33 deg c on the motorway around 27. At the rollers I guess it heat soaked more because it was sitting there idling for quite some time in between runs while I tried to sort out the boost controller.
Talking about boost controllers has anyone got one forsale ?
Need one for the rmagic car.

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on July 07, 2004, 11:49:43 PM
Right ready for part 2 soon.
Last time on the rollers i didn\'t realise until afterwards when the car was severely missing the next day anytime I was under boost. Was because the plugs were completely fried.
Once I put in a new set of 11\'s all round it was perfect. Also my innovative wideband constantly shows 10.0:1 and even lower on wot, so I still have way too much fuel going in. I will go back and lay with my ignition split and  advance my timing  as it\'s quite conservative at present. I would expect around 390 rwhp when I have finished tuning. Not bad for a little 0.84 a/r:D
Watch this space.
Title: white single turbo
Post by: <Daneh> on July 09, 2004, 01:33:02 AM
Sounds nice, currently im in dream land just trying to get mins anywhere near stock figures.. .:mad:

someone help plzz! :(

http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7463 (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7463)
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on July 10, 2004, 04:30:05 PM
Out with the old and in with the new:D
Title: white single turbo
Post by: iiyama on July 10, 2004, 04:50:16 PM
nice torque brace!!! :cool
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on July 10, 2004, 04:59:02 PM
Hi brian ,

you gonna use this car as a project / race car now or still selling her??
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on July 10, 2004, 05:49:57 PM
No selling her. The pic I posted is the replacements cars engine bay. I may be forced re-adjust some plans as i have a mortgage wife and kid to look after but hopefully I can still go way ott with the new one.


rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on July 10, 2004, 05:54:48 PM
Thats the thing Brian we all want to go mad with power but how much will it cost????

I have so many plans for my car that i can\'t pay for it all:rollin :rollin  so just getting larger injectors and remap for now thing that\'ll fit into budget??:confused:
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on July 10, 2004, 06:03:13 PM
What size injectors you running at the mo mate ?
Would of thought you would have some pretty big secondaries on that t78? What injector duty cycles do you reach under boost ?

rgds
Title: white single turbo
Post by: gsb876 on July 10, 2004, 06:06:00 PM
Not sure which they are at the mo but i want larger injectors possibly followed by upgraded fuel pump, but gonna see how we run with the current fuel pump before switching.
Title: white single turbo
Post by: bnaellis on July 10, 2004, 06:13:06 PM
You got a commander in your car it tells you on there what size your injectors are. Check with Ross regarding the fuel pump i\'d be suprised if it had a standard one. Saying that you can check yourself it only takes 5 mins to check it. Lift the carpet in the boot there\'s a metal cover with about 5 screws to the left wheels arch.

rgds