Mazda Rotary Club

General => General Technical => Topic started by: AshRX on August 02, 2009, 10:53:09 PM

Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: AshRX on August 02, 2009, 10:53:09 PM
Just been doing some reading on the TA forum and a few of the lads on there are using E85 in their tanks.

Has anyone tried this yet in a FD? Can it be used safely as an octane booster?

Cheers
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 12:39:35 AM
I use it in my FD Peripheral Port.
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: MaLicE on August 03, 2009, 01:17:33 AM
i thought you needed new injectors or something to run e85?? doesnt it need a much higher pressure?
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: sadgoth on August 03, 2009, 06:53:19 AM
Speak to Tim at RX Motors, he\'s been using E85 in his red FD for a couple of years now both for daily use and also on the drag strip. From what I remember, he needed to increase the fuel pressure a bit to allow for the fact that more ethanol then petrol is required in the combustion chamber
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: mx1311 on August 03, 2009, 08:59:25 AM
anyone finding problems with it eating the fd fuel tanks?

colum
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 10:33:13 AM
No probs with the fuel tank for me or the lines.

I am running Bosh 1680\'s as primary\'s and secondary\'s that are e85 safe.

Yep a lot more fuel is required so some fueling work will be req.
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: kev-yorks on August 03, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
Quote from: mx1311;631562anyone finding problems with it eating the fd fuel tanks?
 
colum
Your main issue will be fuel filters colum as the ethanol cleans all the lacquer from the lines/ tank. Longer term the rubber hoses may become a issue but there\'s no reports of major issues on the E85 forum with hoses tants etc. Bosch 1680\'s are fine with E85 not sure about stock mazda ones but as you require about 20% more volume injectors will nodoubt be swapped out anyway.
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: franky on August 03, 2009, 07:25:07 PM
how can i find out where e85 is sold im down in kent but dont know where to get any, i want so for my mot
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: sadgoth on August 03, 2009, 07:29:10 PM
Quote from: mx1311;631562anyone finding problems with it eating the fd fuel tanks?

colum

Tim has replaced his tank with a plastic race tank, just in case!
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Timrxmotors on August 03, 2009, 07:44:52 PM
Long term it will destroy your petrol tank! In my FD it got so bad it would block a fuel filter in about 150 miles,to the point where the car was undrivable.
A lot of crap is written about E85,truth is it is very corrosive,loves eating aluminium and any metal coatings.Emissions are more toxic than petrol!
Eats spark plugs,and any deposits on the plugs causes detonation.
Good luck to Kev and Steve,they have a lot to learn!
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: Timrxmotors;631704Long term it will destroy your petrol tank! In my FD it got so bad it would block a fuel filter in about 150 miles,to the point where the car was undrivable.
A lot of crap is written about E85,truth is it is very corrosive,loves eating aluminium and any metal coatings.Emissions are more toxic than petrol!
Eats spark plugs,and any deposits on the plugs causes detonation.
Good luck to Kev and Steve,they have a lot to learn!

Pointless not taking advantage of a marvellous fuel though ;)

As stated before lines and tank are going to be replaced eventually but funding gets in the way :) but still doing ok up to press :D
Also plugs only ever do 200miles before they are replaced (its a drag car not street).
Toxic fumes arent a problem on an mot so no worries there as it duznt even register on the emissions machine even when running rich.
We know about ally and e85 ;)

All the above info is readily availably and e85 has been used to great success in the states.

You just have to have a look on the alternative fuels section on the US forum.

If people didnt try these things in this country as well as here then we would be at a stand still dont you think ?
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 08:45:58 PM
Quote from: franky;631701how can i find out where e85 is sold im down in kent but dont know where to get any, i want so for my mot

http://www.bioperformanceuk.com/bioethanol_pumps.php
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 08:49:58 PM
Oh and by the way Kev is running a plastic fuel cell, fully replaced fuel lines, external fuel pumps (ethanol friendly), After market ethernol safe fuel filters.

So nothing there for kev to learn :D
Just i like to live life on the cheap side :rollin
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 09:19:46 PM
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=778088&highlight=e85+fuel+tank
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Timrxmotors on August 03, 2009, 09:21:54 PM
Good to hear other\'s experiences using it.I have done about 15,000 miles solely using E85.The first few thousand were fine,then got through 6 fuel pump socks,and as many filters.Changed the tank for a mint one,then bought a plastic one and haven\'t changed a filter since.lines are braided ones to and from the engine bay.
Stock twins,dynoed 280 rwhp,13.0 sec 1/4 mile.A very good fuel,convinced the engine will never blow using it,and I have run it lean,so lean the tail pipe is white.Consumes 1 litre per 3 miles!
Ther is 20p a litre less tax on it than unleaded,yet it is only 2p cheaper than unleaded at the pump.:confused:
Will strip the engine soon,don\'t think it will be pretty!
Didn\'t realise Kev has plastic tank and fuel lines,definately the way to go.
Use it in my 1st gen for drag racing,11.1 so far,and 13000 rpm! I only put it in on the day I race it,as I have an ali fuel tank
Chris Impey has bet me £10 I only have 4 runs left before it blows,think I\'ll win that one! :evillaugh
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 03, 2009, 09:28:37 PM
I have run my engine to lean as well (while thrashing it) a few times and it hasnt blown so im convinced there is a big plateau to work with for safety, i could be wrong but ill never know without trying :D
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Initial-D on August 04, 2009, 04:35:48 PM
Interesting stuff, not sure about the corrosive nature and ali though hmmm!!
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Rzla on August 04, 2009, 05:03:12 PM
So Steve is your PP making an appearance anytime soon?
Would really like to see it on the strip :)
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: AshRX on August 04, 2009, 06:09:02 PM
Checked with JayDee. Better than race fuel but have to be fully mapped for it. No point travelling 40 miles everytime you need to fill up :(
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Timrxmotors on August 04, 2009, 09:06:03 PM
I haven\'t used my FD for about 3 months,but it is still alive! Needed a tow start,then took it for an MOT and it passed.Emissions on E85 were 1.4% co,and 150ppm hydrocarbons,not exactly no emissions,but not bad for a car with no cat or air pump.
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: kev-yorks on August 04, 2009, 09:13:38 PM
Until there are more stations selling E85 its probably not a viable fuel for road use which is a shame as there are some big plus points with E85, though by the end of the year all petrol will by European dictate have a percentage of Ethanol blended in it like diesel which already has to have between 3-5% bio fuel in it. One negative as Tim said though its more prone to pre det than petrol so keep plugs changed on a regular basis. Having said that its great knock resistance (high RON) so things can be pushed further than petrol safely, seems to have a flat tuning plateau which makes it more forgiving, inter cooling properties are much better than petrol to the point it can be a issue to get enough heat into the engine and oil. I\'ve had no issues yet with corrosion and its certainly less corrosive than meths, having said that all the fittings I\'ve used are anodized Ali and fuel system components where spec\'d up to be meths safe. Another big plus is the almost non existent CO2 emissions, which helps anyone out struggling with emissions if you add E85 to you tank for the MOT.
Tim tbh is the best person to tell of the merits, pitfalls of running E85 on a stock motor as everything on mine has been over spec\'d including a high output ignition system and how well the stock fd ignition would cope with E85 at a bar boost i\'ve no idea.
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Timrxmotors on August 04, 2009, 09:18:25 PM
S(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/th_PICT0408.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/?action=view¤t=PICT0408.jpg)ome pics.(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/th_PICT0407.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/?action=view¤t=PICT0407.jpg)(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/th_PICT0405.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/?action=view¤t=PICT0405.jpg)(http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/th_PICT0404.jpg) (http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/timrxmotors/?action=view¤t=PICT0404.jpg)
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Timrxmotors on August 04, 2009, 09:28:19 PM
Pic 1 is E85 form my original fuel tank left in a container to evaporate,what is left is a white powder.
Pic 2 is E85 from Morrisons pump,left to evaporate.Leaves a varnish like residue.
Pic 4 is the state of a piece of aluminium placed in the fuel tank for a few days.
Pic 3 is of 2 totally blocked fuel pump socks.
Doesn\'t matter whatever they say on the US forums,our E85 is made from sugar beet,not corn.
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: steve garbutt on August 04, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
So your still running e85 ?
Title: E85 - Morrisons
Post by: Timrxmotors on August 07, 2009, 11:19:14 AM
Car now MOT\'d and on the road again.Very difficult to start when hot,so did a compression test today. Front 3.7,3.9,3.7, rear 2.9,4.5,3.7. Strip down soon!